To Grind or not to Grind?

[Sentacotus]

So as of late I've seen alot of topics about Donnel and if he's worth it or not and that's what prompted this thread because I genuinely feel it is an interesting topic worthy of well thought out disscussion.

Ah the age old question of RPG's and strategy games alike. To grind or not to grind that is the question. Fire Emblem has always been a series that prides itself on its difficulty, permadeath, characters, strategic mechanics, and experience rationing. Now I've been a long time fan of FE since it was first localized on the GBA back in 2003 and one of the first things I noticed that differentiated it from other RPG's was the level up system. You had to decide which units to level up and which to essentially bench else risk having underleveled lords who die if an enemy looks at them bad. While I loved the hell outta these games I always found myself regretting not using certain characters simply because I couldn't level them up without getting killed and in essence missed out entirely on what they had to offer. Fast forward to 2013 and Awakening is released with it it brings the ability to grind on a level not seen in the series (unless you count arena abuse) whether it was with reeking boxes or using the DLC to no end level grinding units like Donnel to become gods among men it quickly became a way many players and fans could enjoy the game if they chose.

Now call me weird or a "filthy casual" but I'm the type that actually likes to grind. Sure it can get repetative at times but to me I would grind initially "bad" units and see the result of the time I put into them by using them effectively. Also it just adds alot of replayability to me and gives me incentive to maybe try another approach maybe try a different set of classes for my avatar than before or different pairings and enjoy the game at its fullest. I realize alot of people don't like to grind and even go as far to play lunatic with just the chapters and paralogues. I don't think anything is wrong with that at all. In fact, I think that is kinda the biggest plus to Awakening is that it literally can be played however you want it. I hope IS keeps this feature in future iterations if nothing else just as an option to people who want to enjoy the game in such a way.

[Vascela]

I think playing/watching a 0% growth run of certain games gives a great impression on what makes some characters pretty good. When you look at characters like Donnel, you see the +1s across the board on level ups. That's a huge pleasure to the player (it's very enjoyable to see you get high stats all the time). But noticing a character's base stats, base class, weapon levels, etc., you begin to see a lot of interesting things. For example, the Jeigan archetype character goes from one of the worst/a beginner's worst nightmare trap to an amazing character.

There's more to the game than end game stats, so I say that grinding is simply a blindfold. There's nothing wrong with it, but it certainly skews your perspective.

[Sentacotus]

I think playing/watching a 0% growth run of certain games gives a great impression on what makes some characters pretty good. When you look at characters like Donnel, you see the +1s across the board on level ups. That's a huge pleasure to the player (it's very enjoyable to see you get high stats all the time). But noticing a character's base stats, base class, weapon levels, etc., you begin to see a lot of interesting things. For example, the Jeigan archetype character goes from one of the worst/a beginner's worst nightmare trap to an amazing character.

There's more to the game than end game stats, so I say that grinding is simply a blindfold. There's nothing wrong with it, but it certainly skews your perspective.

Oh yeah I agree some units are just simply better than others with stats, availability, and growth rates etc. I just enjoy the mechanic of it and the concept of putting time into a unit and making them strong, exploring different skillsets/classes, and getting their supports and making it so I don't have to skip over a character I may like and have to restart the game from the begining just so I can focus on leveling up that character that time around. And I should add just because you grind dosen't mean you have to do it with every character.

Edited January 13, 2015 by TacoMan42

[Ryo]

I personally am not that into grinding when playing video games in general, only because I'm a very lazy and impatient person. Yeah I know, that's not really a good excuse but whatever :P

Regarding grinding in Fire Emblem, I have a complicated view.

On one hand, I'm not against it but I think it can change your experience significantly, and sometimes not in a good way. When grinding, you lack a legitimate basis to compare the units (to see who's better etc.) as everyone can end up as gods anyway. The dilemma you face when you have to choose between certain units is an uncomfortable, yet awesome experience (especially when you have to choose between an unit you like and someone you hate but is superior game-play wise). It reminds me that you cannot get everything in your life. Everything comes with a price. Training everyone at the same time kind of destroy that point, philosophically speaking.

Also note that the games are designed so that you can still beat them without grinding (even on Awakening Lunatic+), and I think figuring out a way to do that it's what makes it fun (or torturous). In general, grinding is not necessarily bad because it's a perfect feature to help new players (like me) to adapt themselves to the nature of this series without getting overwhelmed. However, it also shapes their view and impression about the series as well. And I'm not sure if I like this fact. Should a new FE title removes grinding, it wouldn't surprise me at all if some Awakening newcomers "boycotted" it just because it's too difficult or newbie-unfriendly, even though that's how FE was supposed to be like in the first place. But given how Awakening's mechanics got praised and welcomed, I don't think that's a likely scenario.

On the other hand, grinding in Awakening is somewhat different comparing to other games because I think that it's the whole point of this title. It feels like you cannot enjoy the game to the fullest if you don't grind and/or abuse other game-breaking features (sometimes just for the hell of it) to try out all the different skills, classes, or other options (though I'm not saying that choosing not to grind would ruin your experience either, that depends). And if you want to attempt things like Apotheosis Secret, grinding is pretty much a necessary (if not mandatory) progress anyway.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Ryo

[Cat1803]

Unless I'm doing a challenge run, I grind. A lot. I'm one of those weird people that enjoys grinding. I've had everyone maxed out before Grima, I've had only Chrom and Avatar with anything resembling levels. It depends on the run, or how patient I am.

If the next FE came out tomorrow and grinding wasn't an option, I'd just be like "challenge accepted". I'd find a way. I like grinding, but I won't be like "ugh not playing" if it's not an option.

I find I actually grind the least in lunatic, since I don't have the patience to deal with that bogus internal level cap of 50. It really depends on the difficulty and my patience level. Of course, I do ban things in challenge runs (my current Luna+ run is no Outrealm Gate), grinding being among them.

And I don't judge based on whether people grind or not. I don't care if everyone in your army is maxed out with Limit Breaker and all their skills before chapter 5. Whatever floats your boat.

^Reminds me of Casual mode. I played Awakening Lunatic Casual before I ever even tried Classic. Saving anywhere is really nice when first trying out a difficulty (and for me, starting the series). I'm even getting a used copy of Shadow Dragon soon, now that I'm more familiar with the series. The permadeath frightened me before... But I was such a dimwit that I didn't know you could soft reset. Needless to say I've learned since then.

[DragonLord]

I usually never grind until I've beaten the game and want to max out all of my character's stats for fun. Especially if I'm gonna be playing Apotheosis again.

[Gradivus.]

Grinding kills bragging rights. Grinding my hours away just to get wtf-ish stats is boring to me aswell, I'd rather spend three hours to figure out a rescue chain than spending three hours grinding (yeah, extreme case). Even if my characters get too statscrewed, I can still download spotpass units instead of grinding as it takes less time for the same result basically. I usually don't grind, but I don't think particularly badly of it either. I personally can't fathom how ultragrind players (e.g. someonewhodied1's Lunatic playthrough on YouTube) actually enjoy the game, but they are free (OK they have to pay for the grind dlc so it's not free!) to grind so I don't see a reason to complain.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Gradivus.

[Sentacotus]

Unless I'm doing a challenge run, I grind. A lot. I'm one of those weird people that enjoys grinding. I've had everyone maxed out before Grima, I've had only Chrom and Avatar with anything resembling levels. It depends on the run, or how patient I am.

If the next FE came out tomorrow and grinding wasn't an option, I'd just be like "challenge accepted". I'd find a way. I like grinding, but I won't be like "ugh not playing" if it's not an option.

Welcome to the club. Yeah I like it but if it were to disappear tommarrow I'd still play the next FE's.

Grinding kills bragging rights. Grinding my hours away just to get wtf-ish stats is boring to me aswell, I'd rather spend three hours to figure out a rescue chain than spending three hours grinding (yeah, extreme case). Even if my characters get too statscrewed, I can still download spotpass units instead of grinding as it takes less time for the same result basically. I usually don't grind, but I don't think particularly badly of it either. I personally can't fathom how ultragrind players (e.g. someonewhodied1's Lunatic playthrough on YouTube) actually enjoy the game, but they are free (OK they have to pay for the grind dlc so it's not free!) to grind so I don't see a reason to complain.

Fortunately for me I care not for the rights of bragging.

[Melissa]

Welcome to the club. Yeah I like it but if it were to disappear tommarrow I'd still play the next FE's.

Fortunately for me I care not for the rights of bragging.

Neither do I

[Loki Laufeyson]

I grind for the most part. If im really not arsed, i wont do it, but Loony runs get lots of grinding cuz im a nancy.

[Thor Odinson]

I don't enjoy grinding because I like blitzing through things

Also I feel like that FE, as partially a strategy game unlike standard rpgs which I don't mind grinding as much, is that I like formulating tactics on the fly and grinding will trivialise anything past chapter 4 on any difficulty, which is kinda counterintuitive to the strategy element. But that's just how I enjoy it; I think the addition of grinding as an entirely optional mechanic is easing to new players and veterans who just like grinding alike. As long as it's never mandatory to grind I'm fine with having it as a thing.

As far as Donnel goes I feel he's most usable in a limited-grind playstyle; In nogrind he takes too long to get started, in full grind his class choices are very limited and his caps mods are awful.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Thor Odinson

[Sentacotus]

I don't enjoy grinding because I like blitzing through things

Also I feel like that FE, as partially a strategy game unlike standard rpgs which I don't mind grinding as much, is that I like formulating tactics on the fly and grinding will trivialise anything past chapter 4 on any difficulty, which is kinda counterintuitive to the strategy element. But that's just how I enjoy it; I think the addition of grinding as an entirely optional mechanic is easing to new players and veterans who just like grinding alike. As long as it's never mandatory to grind I'm fine with having it as a thing.

I agree. This is why I hope IS does keep it in just as an optional thing for newcomers and those who like traditional RPGs alike. I see no problem with it being in there as an optional mechanic.

[Iceclaw]

Well, there's grinding and grinding. Catching up those of your units that have fallen behind is a thing, a thing I do. Propelling yourself way ahead of the game's actual progression is a different beast. I don't really see the point in doing so, considering it robs the game of any challenge.