Character Balance?

[Mackc2]

I was looking at the characters growth rates and for me they brought up a ton of problems, so I want to ask anyone who has the game if the problems I see do actually occur in game.

1. Avatar is still OP, compared to most characters his growth rates are quite high and he starts at a respectable level

2. The siblings are also OP, compared to the growth rates of the other units theirs are just ridiculously high and most of them have a unique weapon that is super OP

3. Because said siblings are OP any character who shares their class are pretty much pointless (setsuna for example being useless because OP takumi)

4. Gunthers growth rates are ridiculously low, I know hes the jaegan and all, but with none of his growths going above 15-20 it just seems pointless to even level him. Freddy was at least usable if you reclassed him immediately.

5. Mozume growths are not great for the villager charecter, aren't they supposed to have amazing growths

6. Anna is the pay to win character, Her personal skill is extremely useful, her growths are ridiculous and she is probably going to end up as a DLC character seing as there is currently no way to get her (unless she was scrapped late development and not removed)

[nocturnal YL]

We don't know how to get Anna yet. There's no way she's scrapped and still has a place in the support library UI - Smash Bros is notorious for scrapped elements, and even there we don't see it leaving traces in the game's interface. My bet is that she's a SpotPass characters (see Awakening).

I'm glad to see Gunther that way. We haven't had a new pure Jeigan for a very long while. I do agree that the royals are way too overpowered and Mozume doesn't feel like a villager.

If there's anything I don't like about the growth rates, it's how the childrens' growths are calculated. Granted, their raw growths are a small tad higher, but you're still pretty much screwed if you have a physical unit marry a magical one.

Still way better than the balance issues of the previous games. 50% skill activation rate in Awakening or unusable Laguz Emancipation Army and 50 Res Ashera in Radiant Dawn are way worse than what we have now.

[Jedi]

Fire Emblem has never and will never be balanced.

[NagahBlakks]

There has been alot of Cuts from Awakening To Fates... And i dont know how i like it in some regards Debuffs after every time u attack seem hella ridiculous
tho i understand the pair up being broken and it dont even seem very balanced in this game either ..Lotta aspect of this FE seem outa whack IMO and the feel of thracia and genelogy seems eminently strong in this game

[CocoaGalaxy]

Largely speaking, there is no "super op can do everything" character, sort of. Technically if your avatar/other characters get lots of good level ups, sure, but otherwise nobody is flawless. The closest would be a reclassed/speed blessed Effie (in my opinion anyway, everyone can be, remember, just that Effie has >50% in the four important stats) or Mozume (Aptitude boosting growths to highest in the game)

For example, Ryoma is fast, has a no restriction 1-2 range 11mt +4 strength weapon, dodges fairly to pretty reliably, but even he will be hurt pretty badly

Xander is tanky, but his resistance is somewhat lacking and unless he gets ridiculously speed blessed, he'll probably never double much, if at all, and he might even be the one getting doubled.

Takumi is strong and fast, but he's still limited to 2 Range, and his Defense, while good, isn't on a real tank level, just enough to put him "above average" (by hoshido standards anyway), and his resistance will always be lacking

Leo is also strong and fast, but his defense isn't perfect either and he can't take that many hits

Of course, this is all somewhat subjective though.

[NekoKnight]

I don't know why everyone acts like Mozume is bad or even underwhelming. She's not Donnel levels of potential (his skill gave higher stat gains and he had more levels to gain before class changing to tier one) but she keeps up with the rest of the army.

Edited July 11, 2015 by NekoKnight

[CocoaGalaxy]

I don't know why everyone acts like Mozume is bad or even underwhelming. She's not Donnel levels of potential (his skill gave higher stat gains and he had more levels to gain before class changing to tier one) but she keeps up with the rest of the army.

I dunno, maybe they dislike the feeding Mozume bit (in all honesty you can "easily" get Mozume 5-15 levels in a chapter or three if you know what you're doing).

That, and the fact that Mozume is great, but she's still not a one man army like Ike was in his games or so. (She's largely going to get ~30s in all her stats by the time she hits 20/20, something that pretty much no other character can do)

[NagahBlakks]

I dunno, maybe they dislike the feeding Mozume bit (in all honesty you can "easily" get Mozume 5-15 levels in a chapter or three if you know what you're doing).

That, and the fact that Mozume is great, but she's still not a one man army like Ike was in his games or so. (She's largely going to get ~30s in all her stats by the time she hits 20/20, something that pretty much no other character can do)

sooooo there no way to Reclass back to lvl 1 in Fates Then ?

[Mackc2]

All Ive heard before is that mozume is not worth the time, But its nice to hear that she actually is one of the best units when trained because she is easily my favourite character

[astrophys]

sooooo there no way to Reclass back to lvl 1 in Fates Then ?

Correct, although in practice there are different implications that it sounds from this…

You cannot class change to level 1…. but you CAN purchase Eternal Seals for 12,000 each if I recall what I've read correctly, which let you raise the level cap of a capped unit by 5 per use…. I don't know the limit, but I've seen YouTube videos of level 99 characters, so presumably it goes at least that high. Unless said video was using hacked levels or was fake.

So you get to 20/20 before using Eternal Seals, but you could get to at least 20/99 with them, if the videos I've seen are to be believed.

Additionally, in this game, you automatically learn skills you've missed in a class tree at the rate of 1 per level up, even ones from base classes.

As far as I know, most characters can only have up to 4-5 class trees available to them (most first gens can get 2+2, most second gens can get 3+2), and the most skills a class tree can give is 6 (2 base, 2 from one promoted option, two from the other), so that's only at most thirty skills they can learn from leveling. 99 Levels is more than enough time to do that.

[NekoKnight]

All Ive heard before is that mozume is not worth the time, But its nice to hear that she actually is one of the best units when trained because she is easily my favourite character

Her stat gains are:

HP 30

Str 40

Mag 5

Skl 50

Spd 55

Lck 45

Def 35

Res 30

Assuming that's not factoring in Aptitude (+10 to growths), that makes her have higher growths than Kamui in all stats besides HP and Mag. Not bad, I'd say. Even if those were her growths after Aptitutde, she'd still be tied or better than Kamui at Skl, Spd, Lck and Res.

[nocturnal YL]

I guess we need a list of expected stats like the ones featured in the site for the older games. Or at least a list of 20/20 stats. The result would be actually useful this time, since Lunatic has fixed level ups and there are setups where you don't get to reclass forever. (Nohr has limited resources, and castle battles with Eternal Seal disabled will use everyone's stat at 20/20 if they have surpassed that.)

Edited July 11, 2015 by nocturnal YL

[Jayvee94]

I like characters who gain more experience. I get easily discouraged with characters who level up slow. I might not use characters with ratings exceed that of the boss. IF I HAVE THE GAME.

[Bovinian]

I guess we need a list of expected stats like the ones featured in the site for the older games. Or at least a list of 20/20 stats. The result would be actually useful this time, since Lunatic has fixed level ups and there are setups where you don't get to reclass forever. (Nohr has limited resources, and castle battles with Eternal Seal disabled will use everyone's stat at 20/20 if they have surpassed that.)

I created a thread for that a while back, but it was before the base stats were officially released so it was incomplete for some units. I could update it with the new information and revive it

[Thor Odinson]

I guess we need a list of expected stats like the ones featured in the site for the older games. Or at least a list of 20/20 stats. The result would be actually useful this time, since Lunatic has fixed level ups and there are setups where you don't get to reclass forever. (Nohr has limited resources, and castle battles with Eternal Seal disabled will use everyone's stat at 20/20 if they have surpassed that.)

Wait, Lunatic is fixed mode basically? Or am I misunderstanding that

[nocturnal YL]

No, you read it right. In Lunatic, level ups are fixed. No matter how many times you reset, you still see the same stats raising in a level up. Confirmed by Kawaki Chatei.

[Thor Odinson]

No, you read it right. In Lunatic, level ups are fixed. No matter how many times you reset, you still see the same stats raising in a level up. Confirmed by Kawaki Chatei.

Ah, alright. That's interesting. Certainly reduces abusability.

[Jedi]

No, you read it right. In Lunatic, level ups are fixed. No matter how many times you reset, you still see the same stats raising in a level up. Confirmed by Kawaki Chatei.

Well.. I dno whether to like this or be disappointed.

[Luninareph]

3. Because said siblings are OP any character who shares their class are pretty much pointless (setsuna for example being useless because OP takumi)

4. Gunthers growth rates are ridiculously low, I know hes the jaegan and all, but with none of his growths going above 15-20 it just seems pointless to even level him. Freddy was at least usable if you reclassed him immediately.

5. Mozume growths are not great for the villager charecter, aren't they supposed to have amazing growths

3. Setsuna isn't exactly useless, even with Takumi. She has twice his RES growth and a third again as much SPD growth, making her a specialized mage-killer, and she gets Ninja as a secondary class where Takumi gets Lance Fighter, which means she has natural access to Puppeteer and Copycat while Takumi would have to marry for it. Also, Takumi really wants to stay Holy Bowman to maximize the usefulness of the Wind God Bow, which gives Setsuna more room to go Golden Kite or Puppeteer and take on a completely different role from him. Takumi may be stronger, but that doesn't mean Setsuna doesn't have her own niche.

4. Frederick wasn't a Jeigan, he was an Oifey--a crutch character early on who actually has the growth rates to stay viable throughout the game. Gunther IS a Jeigan, an actual Jeigan, and in fact if you compare his growths to the original Jeigan, Gunther's stats are actually BETTER than his. So comparing Frederick and Gunther is erroneous.

5. Mozume's growths are extremely good, especially when stacked with Aptitude's flat 10% growth bonus. 40 STR, 50 SKL, 55 SPD, 45 LUC? Pre-Aptitude? Pretty great. I think the complaints about her arose because she has terrible BASES, because Villager, and because of her 30% HP growth specifically, not the rest of her growths. If you promote her to Great Merchant ASAP, that extra 20% HP and 10% DEF will quickly fix her HP and you shouldn't have any further problems.

[Nyanko]

I wish Gunter's growths were better. I know he's the Jeigan, but there will be some people who want to use him because they like him as a character. Can he even be used all the way through the game?

[Featherwick]

I wish Gunter's growths were better. I know he's the Jeigan, but there will be some people who want to use him because they like him as a character. Can he even be used all the way through the game?

Just in case you don't know,

After he comes back in Norh

, his bases are fantastic. While his growth's aren't great the bases can carry him well into the late game. He won't be fantastic by then, but he certainly won't be useless. Think Dagdar from Thracia. Certainly not good by the end, but definitely not awful.

[Nyanko]

Just in case you don't know,

After he comes back in Norh

, his bases are fantastic. While his growth's aren't great the bases can carry him well into the late game. He won't be fantastic by then, but he certainly won't be useless. Think Dagdar from Thracia. Certainly not good by the end, but definitely not awful.

Thanks. That sounds good. I'm like one of the few people who actually wants to use him. He seems like a pretty cool guy.

[CocoaGalaxy]

Not sure if we're talking about the same bases here, or maybe our expectations are different

He'll be doubled and destroyed in 2 rounds by Endgame, maybe even 1 round.

[Jedi]

Just in case you don't know,

After he comes back in Norh

, his bases are fantastic. While his growth's aren't great the bases can carry him well into the late game. He won't be fantastic by then, but he certainly won't be useless. Think Dagdar from Thracia. Certainly not good by the end, but definitely not awful.

Dagda can kill things in the final chapter of Thracia at base stats. Kind of a bad example lol.

[CocoaGalaxy]

The 3rd route is a bit more "atrocious" with base stats, granted, but in Hoshido/Nohr proper, the only unit that srsly can't hit the ground running is Mozume..I think, anyway.

Of course, this is on Normal, I've not compared generic stats in Normal vs Hard vs Lunatic yet though

The difference in difficulty increases towards the end of the game, (E.g. Chap 7 boss might have +1 hp, +1 strength, chap 27 boss might have +5 everything), plus skills, etc.

Enemy skills (seal skills are horribly debilitating, etc) are mostly absent in the easier difficulties, so that's another factor (enemies will also have rally skills to boost their own stats)

There are quite a number of squishy units (Hana, Elise), some less squishy units (e.g. Ryoma, Avatar, trained Mozume), and the actual tank units (Effie, Xander, Avatar with Dragonstone, maybe Crimson, Flannel)

In terms of Physical attacks anyway, on the magic side, you tend to invert (E.g, a fair amount of units can actually survive magic, but tanking magic is another story, but most of your magic glass cannons are sort of like Micaiah in that they just outright don't care about magic...sort of), so Xander gets whacked by magic pretty hard.

Dunno about the growths, since...well it's hard to say..

Edited July 12, 2015 by CocoaGalaxy