Isadora

[Brinzy]

How useful do you find this character in a ranked run of FE?

Beyond randomly being brought in for experience on a map, I do not find her to be very useful at all. She requires so much of an investment to be made into a long term unit, and the only thing that offsets this is being a pre-promoted unit.

I actually don't find her detrimental if I make it a point to not actively use her, but I don't particular see any reason one would aim to use her. She basically requires stat boosters to be usable, which undermines the fact that she's promoted because you're spending a lot of gold on a unit that, well, shouldn't need extra gold. Even if you do this, she is inferior to many, many choices in the game, and I don't see a reason to invest in her.

Supposedly she's good. I don't see it at all. I can see it for low turn count runs, but that's it.

[ruadath]

I agree with that analysis; at this point of the game (assuming you played Lyn Mode properly), you already have access to 3 paladins (Marcus, Kent/Sain, other/Lowen) and you really don't need another one with terrible bases/growths. She doesn't even join late enough that she helps with the EXP rank, and by the time she can help with that, her stats are too mediocre for her to do so.

[Baldrick]

People consider her to be good outside of LTC?

[Jedi]

I agree with that analysis; at this point of the game (assuming you played Lyn Mode properly), you already have access to 3 paladins (Marcus, Kent/Sain, other/Lowen) and you really don't need another one with terrible bases/growths. She doesn't even join late enough that she helps with the EXP rank, and by the time she can help with that, her stats are too mediocre for her to do so.

To be quite honest she at least has a better showing then Lowen who thinks he's an armor knight when it comes to growths and can't hurt anyone late game in HHM.

Isadora is hampered mostly by her Con, because IS thought giving lower Con to female characters was a good idea or something

[General Horace]

She's not even good in LTC. She joins too late.

She's ok filler in some chapter like Sands of time in a ranked run, where all the enemies blow and she can pick up a few kills for quite a bit of exp, but outside that, she's really not very good.

EDIT: If Lowen can't hurt things Isadora really can't. Lowen can at least use axes to help out with that. Isadora can't even really use Lances very well. She's a pegasus knight on a horse with 8 defence.

Edited July 22, 2015 by General Horace

[Jedi]

She's not even good in LTC. She joins too late.

She's ok filler in some chapter like Sands of time in a ranked run, where all the enemies blow and she can pick up a few kills for quite a bit of exp, but outside that, she's really not very good.

EDIT: If Lowen can't hurt things Isadora really can't. Lowen can at least use axes to help out with that. Isadora can't even really use Lances very well. She's a pegasus knight on a horse with 8 defence.

True that, sorry it's been quite awhile since i've FE7'd lol

[Brinzy]

People consider her to be good outside of LTC?

See... that's how I felt about it. I derailed a separate thread arguing about it with a different user here.

Her bases are just... too crappy. The one stat of hers that is decent is compromised by terrible Constitution. The only way you can even fix that is using a stat booster on her, which is pretty expensive considering there are units that only need 10k from a promotion item to function and be worth a lot more. This doesn't even begin to address her 28 base HP and 8 base Defense, which are abysmal. You either have to buff that as well and end up spending 16k on a unit that isn't even great to begin with or try to use her for free and have a very weak unit.

[Baldrick]

Holy walls of death, Batman!

That guy has no idea what he's talking about. Most people have their own favourite characters, and sometimes they're unaware of their bias. IMO Horace sums up the general consensus fairly well.

[General Banzai]

Izzy requires the Angelic Robe she comes with and is a viable combat unit for the rest of the game

She requires no time investment which places her above most units in the game, she's certainly better than Lowen on account of coming with A Swords and B Lances because no way is Lowen or Kent or Sain pulling those ranks that early, her low con is negligible because her speed is good enough to double the dickslow FE7 enemies for the whole game

So basically I disagree with all of you even Horace

[Elieson]

tell me what mount cares about anything higher than C-swords other than Isadorable and because of her sadly puny Constitution

Edited July 31, 2015 by Elieson

[General Banzai]

tell me what mount cares about anything higher than C-swords other than Isadorable and because of her sadly puny Constitution

Let's be real Lowen's offense is straight fucking trash he's got bad strength AND bad speed what kind of combo is that

Yeah Kent Sain and Marcus are better than Izzy but they're also better than most units in the game, Izzy is still a perfectly usable unit with low time and resource investment and it's not like already having a Paladin or three is an excuse to not have more

[Elieson]

I know Lowen's a timesink and I <3 my bae Isadorable but Lowen isn't that bad when at Lv12/1 Paladin, he matches Izzy's AS with a simple Javelin and beats it with a plain ol' Hand Axe, which is practically all that matters. That, and the damage you deal with it (which at 11/1, is he does take a while to meet, I'll give you that). Granted she is essentially a premade & better lowen but still in terms of 2-range combat

Name	Lv	HP	Str	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res	Con
Lowen	2	23	7	5	7	3	7	0	10
Lowen	12/1	33	11	9	11	9.9	12	4	12
Isadora	1	28	13	12	16	10	8	6	6	


Growths
Name	HP	S/M	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res
Lowen	90	30	30	30	50	40	30
Isadora	75	30	35	50	45	20	25

It's not like it's straight fucking trash compared to Isadora when with the only two weapons that actually matter in the game, Lowen's damage output is practically the same as Isa's if not higher due to hand axe prowess in the glorious gbafe world. It's straight fucking trash when compared to other units though, easy

[General Banzai]

I know Lowen's a timesink and I <3 my bae Isadorable but Lowen isn't that bad when at Lv12/1 Paladin, he matches Izzy's AS with a simple Javelin and beats it with a plain ol' Hand Axe, which is practically all that matters. That, and the damage you deal with it (which at 11/1, is he does take a while to meet, I'll give you that). Granted she is essentially a premade & better lowen but still in terms of 2-range combat

Name	Lv	HP	Str	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res	Con
Lowen	2	23	7	5	7	3	7	0	10
Lowen	12/1	33	11	9	11	9.9	12	4	12
Isadora	1	28	13	12	16	10	8	6	6	


Growths
Name	HP	S/M	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res
Lowen	90	30	30	30	50	40	30
Isadora	75	30	35	50	45	20	25

It's not like it's straight fucking trash compared to Isadora when with the only two weapons that actually matter in the game, Lowen's damage output is practically the same as Isa's if not higher due to hand axe prowess in the glorious gbafe world. It's straight fucking trash when compared to other units though, easy

I dunno 12/1 Lowen is already slightly less than Izzy and Izzy's good speed growth will make her offense better over time. This is also the same chapter you get the Body Ring, I don't think Izzy needs it because her speed is good enough for this game even with the shit con but she's certainly a top candidate for it, her main competition being what Fiora? FE7 is a game for burly men not puny GIRLS, which means she has low Body Ring competition

[-Cynthia-]

She's not really good for ranked, being prepromoted means she doesn't contribute to the Exp rank much.

In LTC, she's generally better at jointime than Lowen(even 12/1 Lowen at this point in the game is generous IMO) and about on par with a trained Kent. Her Con issue is overblown when FE7 enemies are slow enough that she can afford to lose a lot of AS and the weakly contested Body Ring helps this as well. Her offensive parameters can lead to some pretty impressive results (ORKOing Sages in Genesis with a Silver Sword with 8 Mov- even Sain struggles to do this) and her defensive stats are generally good enough for EP, particularly with the Angelic Robe. She's a very solid choice.

[General Horace]

isadora can't use 1-2 range weapons well which really kills her usefulness

she's not terrible but in ranked play you don't want to deploy her (at least until later on like I said in my previous post) because of her high base level, and one could even argue using the angelic robe (and body ring which she desperately wants to at least use Javelins) cost a bit of gold, but if you're smart the funds rank isn't a huge deal so I wouldn't really count that against her.

I think she's a fine unit outside ranked play though. She's totally useless in LTC though, where growths and averages go out the window. She's overshadowed by the other mounts that join in her chapter too (she's probably about as useful as Rath, but vastly inferior to Heath).

In comparison to Lowen though, he's definately better. Sure he's kinda shitty later on, but he's around and pretty useful for the harder chapters of the game, and both Lowen and Isadora are pretty bad when Cog rolls around too. She just kind wins during the stupid midgame defence chapters, and if you're using Lowen seriously he's probably better since their offence is gonna be roughly equal anyway.

Sure she might double some things with javelins even with -5 AS, but she's not killing much with 13 strength at that point other than mages. Archers even probably escape being ORKO'd.

EDIT: base heath can orko half of the sages because they all weigh themselves down so much, so I'm sure a trained sain has no issue.

Edited July 31, 2015 by General Horace

[-Cynthia-]

Sure she might double some things with javelins even with -5 AS, but she's not killing much with 13 strength at that point other than mages. Archers even probably escape being ORKO'd.

EDIT: base heath can orko half of the sages because they all weigh themselves down so much, so I'm sure a trained sain has no issue.

If Isadora's 13 Str is considered too low, then what about Lowen or Kent's 11 Str at 12/1?

Kishuna's seal makes the Sages count as unequipped so they aren't weighed down at all. Play the chapter.

Edited July 31, 2015 by -Cynthia-

[General Banzai]

I didn't see this was for ranked, whoops

You probably wouldn't want to use her in ranked because she'll want Angelic Robe and maybe Body Ring which dent Funds, Horace claims Funds are easy but they were always the hardest part of ranked for me (although I guess her booster expenditures cancel out the lack of a promo item expenditure)

For non-ranked, non-LTC play, I gotta disagree with Horace, I think Izzy is way better than Lowen. Lowen just doesn't do jack dick at any point in the game. Earlygame he's chip damage that can take a hit or two, your offensive options early are Marcus Oswin and Hector and everyone else gets left behind unless you're trying to feed exp, and if you're feeding exp to anyone early your best bet is Eliwood or even Rebecca who at least reach an offensive threshold at SOME POINT in the game. Lowen meanwhile has a sluggish midgame and a barely passable lategame, it takes him forever to start ORKOing because of his dismal speed and strength growths. Also he starts D swords and D lances, bleck. As the stat guy showed in an above post, Izzy has 2 more strength than 12/1 Lowen (since his growth is 30% it would take 6 additional levels for him to match her), PLUS Izzy has access to Silver Sword literally as soon as she joins, since she joins with Silver Sword. While her str is bad her high speed growth allows her to continue using strong weapons, which by the time she joins you have a pretty steady supply to tide over for the rest of the game.

Basically we're talking about an offensively competent unit with 8 move who is offensively competent from the moment she joins. Lowen's main gate to being used is about 1400 exp + a Knight Seal that would better go to Kent, Sain, or even goddam Oswin, Izzy's main gate to being used is the unit slot it takes to field her

[General Horace]

If Isadora's 13 Str is considered too low, then what about Lowen or Kent's 11 Str at 12/1?

Kishuna's seal makes the Sages count as unequipped so they aren't weighed down at all. Play the chapter.

kishuna like, moves and makes it so almost all of the sages are out of the seal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tsqFVQv7s8&list=PLHhXqU1iGb01IHXQEsSD2CrHBLiqkQ-R-&index=31

I know not everyone plays LTC and gets rid of Kishuna early but his movements on the first few turns make it pretty clear that only one sage actually dies under the seal even if I played at a slower pace, and he'll always move where he did on turn 1 so the sage can use Bolting and the other one can use Sleep. He also leaves on turn 5 or something regardless. I know what I'm talking about.

Having Kent/Lowen at 12/1 or whatever is pretty low (especially for Kent if we played Lyn mode) too. If we're playing ranked they're not promoting at level 12, if we're playing "efficiently" they're a much higher level due to eating more exp. Kent also has energy ring access and the like too (it's better on Florina yes, but the option exists)

@banzai I can agree with what you're saying. If we're using Lowen somewhat seriously he might be able to use Marcus's Silver Lance anyway. He could in the above video, but he honestly probably had more WExp than could be considered normal since his stats were inflated, B Lance/C Sword is probably more reasonable, although I think he actually promoted around level 12 here, I forget.

Edited July 31, 2015 by General Horace

[Elieson]

I didn't see this was for ranked, whoops

You probably wouldn't want to use her in ranked because she'll want Angelic Robe and maybe Body Ring which dent Funds, Horace claims Funds are easy but they were always the hardest part of ranked for me (although I guess her booster expenditures cancel out the lack of a promo item expenditure)

For non-ranked, non-LTC play, I gotta disagree with Horace, I think Izzy is way better than Lowen. Lowen just doesn't do jack dick at any point in the game. Earlygame he's chip damage that can take a hit or two, your offensive options early are Marcus Oswin and Hector and everyone else gets left behind unless you're trying to feed exp, and if you're feeding exp to anyone early your best bet is Eliwood or even Rebecca who at least reach an offensive threshold at SOME POINT in the game. Lowen meanwhile has a sluggish midgame and a barely passable lategame, it takes him forever to start ORKOing because of his dismal speed and strength growths. Also he starts D swords and D lances, bleck. As the stat guy showed in an above post, Izzy has 2 more strength than 12/1 Lowen (since his growth is 30% it would take 6 additional levels for him to match her), PLUS Izzy has access to Silver Sword literally as soon as she joins, since she joins with Silver Sword. While her str is bad her high speed growth allows her to continue using strong weapons, which by the time she joins you have a pretty steady supply to tide over for the rest of the game.

Basically we're talking about an offensively competent unit with 8 move who is offensively competent from the moment she joins. Lowen's main gate to being used is about 1400 exp + a Knight Seal that would better go to Kent, Sain, or even goddam Oswin, Izzy's main gate to being used is the unit slot it takes to field her

I don't really see how the Base D/D is a boon for Lowen, since there's only:

Marcus's Silver Lance (Ok yea no Silver at base but let's be real here)

Guy's Killing Edge (Lowen has reliable offense with Steel Swords that hit harder anyway)

Port of Badon Lancereaver (Lyn/Eliwood/Guy want this pretty badly anyway since Lowen can just use Lances and not give a damn)

Fiora's Axereaver (Lowen has Swords and probably C-rank in Lances by this point)

Chapter 20 SecretShop provides Killer weaponry & Steel Blade. You're likely not investing in the Silver Blade at this point anyway so I'll ignore that funds drop.

The first standard shop that sells a weapon Lowen can't use at Base level comes 2 chapters after Isadora anyway. If Lowen hasn't gained C-rank in one of his weapon types by now, he shouldn't even be fielded at this point

If you're playing any kind of LTC, you're chipping where you can with Oswin and Rebecca, so Lowen can get some additional experience, or Eliwood or Hector or even Erk I guess. Lowen's gonna have reasonably decent EXP in this setting. When Sain (and Kent) come, you're dumping your EXP into Sain anyway, or Kent if you've invested into him in Lyn mode. Kent blows Lowen out of the water with his +10% Str growth and +1 Str over Lowen at base. Their attack speed is negligible since Kent's always at -1 AS with a Javeline over Lowen, despite 15% speed growth boost and +1 speed base to even things out. I mean Kent's better than Lowen but it's not a roflstomp. Funnelling exp into your 4+1 mounts at this time shouldn't actually be a challenge.

If you're playing Ranked, you want his 18+19 levels of experience to work with for your EXP rank, so like it or not he's forced to pretty much not promote for a while anyway meaning he gains exp faster than Isadora anyway

If you're using Rebecca over Lowen then more power to you I suppose.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Elieson

[-Cynthia-]

kishuna like, moves and makes it so almost all of the sages are out of the seal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tsqFVQv7s8&list=PLHhXqU1iGb01IHXQEsSD2CrHBLiqkQ-R-&index=31

I know not everyone plays LTC and gets rid of Kishuna early but his movements on the first few turns make it pretty clear that only one sage actually dies under the seal, and he'll always move where he did on turn 1 so the sage can use Bolting and the other one can use Sleep. I know what I'm talking about.

Having Kent/Lowen at 12/1 or whatever is pretty low (especially for Kent if we played Lyn mode) too. If we're playing ranked they're not promoting at level 12, if we're playing "efficiently" they're a much higher level due to eating more exp. Kent also has energy ring access and the like too (it's better on Florina yes, but the option exists)

@banzai I can agree with what you're saying. If we're using Lowen somewhat seriously he might be able to use Marcus's Silver Lance anyway. He could in the above video, but he honestly probably had more WExp than could be considered normal since his stats were inflated, B Lance/C Sword is probably more reasonable, although I think he actually promoted around level 12 here, I forget.

Your Lowen was blessed offensively (looks like +2 Str and +3 Spd over averages at level 12) which made him able to get more exp in an efficient playthrough due to having better offense. Your Kent was early promoted who is better than Isadora- but at the cost of not having an early promoted Sain. Yeah, Isadora loses harder if the other cavs end up blessed, but she's also pretty screwage immune- she can always perform her functions in a chapter like Genesis while the other units you used may not be able to.

Edit: Read the wrong user- even a more blessed Lowen looks like (+3 Str and +7 Spd at 13/1)

Edited July 31, 2015 by -Cynthia-

[Psych]

Doesn't Kishauna only move in Hector Mode? I know he doesn't move sometimes but I don't know if it's on hard or on hector mode.

[General Horace]

Your Lowen was blessed offensively (looks like +2 Str and +3 Spd over averages at level 12) which made him able to get more exp in an efficient playthrough due to having better offense. Your Kent was early promoted who is better than Isadora- but at the cost of not having an early promoted Sain. Yeah, Isadora loses harder if the other cavs end up blessed, but she's also pretty screwage immune- she can always perform her functions in a chapter like Genesis while the other units you used may not be able to.

I didn't post the video to showcase that Lowen/Kent were better than Isadora (it's pretty clear that they are imo, but that's a different matter), I just posted it to show that the sages can be killed by pretty much anybody with greater than 10 speed and a decent weapon, so Isadora isn't alone here You even get Filla's might in the chapter before so some weaker dudes can snag some kills. Lowen was wayyyy ahead of his averages here (he was like +6/7 speed?) but at the same time, the average playthrough is probably taking around 20 turns longer by that point of the game, so he'll have more levels as a result.

I'm not saying Isadora isn't capable of doing what you say she can (she definately can) but many many units can do the same. You have a brave axe, and a brave bow too, and while you could say its a waste of uses, when else are you ever going to use them?

All i'm saying is Isadora isn't a fantastic unit. She's decent filler, nothing else past that. Have an extra unit slot? She can fill it and do alright.

Edited July 31, 2015 by General Horace

[General Banzai]

I don't really see how the Base D/D is a boon for Lowen, since there's only:

Marcus's Silver Lance (Ok yea no Silver at base but let's be real here)

Guy's Killing Edge (Lowen has reliable offense with Steel Swords that hit harder anyway)

Port of Badon Lancereaver (Lyn/Eliwood/Guy want this pretty badly anyway since Lowen can just use Lances and not give a damn)

Fiora's Axereaver (Lowen has Swords and probably C-rank in Lances by this point)

Chapter 20 SecretShop provides Killer weaponry & Steel Blade. You're likely not investing in the Silver Blade at this point anyway so I'll ignore that funds drop.

The first standard shop that sells a weapon Lowen can't use at Base level comes 2 chapters after Isadora anyway. If Lowen hasn't gained C-rank in one of his weapon types by now, he shouldn't even be fielded at this point

If you're playing any kind of LTC, you're chipping where you can with Oswin and Rebecca, so Lowen can get some additional experience, or Eliwood or Hector or even Erk I guess. Lowen's gonna have reasonably decent EXP in this setting. When Sain (and Kent) come, you're dumping your EXP into Sain anyway, or Kent if you've invested into him in Lyn mode. Kent blows Lowen out of the water with his +10% Str growth and +1 Str over Lowen at base. Their attack speed is negligible since Kent's always at -1 AS with a Javeline over Lowen, despite 15% speed growth boost and +1 speed base to even things out. I mean Kent's better than Lowen but it's not a roflstomp. Funnelling exp into your 4+1 mounts at this time shouldn't actually be a challenge.

If you're playing Ranked, you want his 18+19 levels of experience to work with for your EXP rank, so like it or not he's forced to pretty much not promote for a while anyway meaning he gains exp faster than Isadora anyway

If you're using Rebecca over Lowen then more power to you I suppose.

The issue is when Isadora joins with her Silver Sword, Lowen ain't using that Silver Sword

All i'm saying is Isadora isn't a fantastic unit. She's decent filler, nothing else past that. Have an extra unit slot? She can fill it and do alright.

The thing is, for FE7, that's actually pretty good. Most units require a lot of exp to do that, Isadora is pretty plug n play.

Edited July 31, 2015 by General Banzai

[Baldrick]

The point of LTC is to get the lowest turncount possible. To that end, rigging levels can be used to reach thresholds quicker and easier.

If Isadora being immune to screwage when one is not manipulating the RN is an advantage, isn't Lowen's ability to be blessed when one is manipulating the RN also an advantage?

[Elieson]

The issue is when Isadora joins with her Silver Sword, Lowen ain't using that Silver Sword

Arguably, other units compete for that Silver Sword, as Lyn may not want to continue burning through her Mani Katti, and Eliwood's Rapier isn't that special. If you didn't pick up a Killer for them back in Chapter Dragons' Gate, they're craving this. (i.e. your two swordlocked Lords need help). Stuffing Isadorable with anything other than her starting sword mitigates her combat abilities. She's slower than 12/1 Lowen with a Steel Lance, almost as slow with a Steel Sword, ranged weapons weigh her down and even an Iron Lance weighs her down.

Nobody's competing for a Steel Lance, Javelin, Hand Axe, that Chapter 14 Iron Blade, all of which while sub-par in raw Mt, don't harm lowen's AS

If Isadora being immune to screwage when one is not manipulating the RN is an advantage, isn't Lowen's ability to be blessed when one is manipulating the RN also an advantage?

Is that a fair thing to argue with?