NekoKnight Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 How would people like supports to be done in this iteration of Fire Emblem? This thread is to discuss everything concerning concerning Supports including how they are gained, what they do, with whom you do them and what they talk about. What would be the optimal system? Method of Acquiring I think Awakening did it best so far with having units fight side by side which works well especially with Pair Up. This can still be a problem for units who have no business fighting next to each other (such as healers) but maybe that could be corrected if a healer could heal the unit they are paired up with. What they do I don't have a problem with what Support bonuses do at the moment. With whom you do them Just as Awakening, I think you should be able to support as many people as you can but only 1 person to the highest rank available. Romancable Pairs If the S support rank comes back, it should be to solidify romantic relations. What I mean by 'solidify' is that there would be hints of a budding relationship before the S rank so it doesn't just come out of the blue. The development between each rank should be subtle, with no sudden "Marry me!" conclusion. The romance options should also be limited to those it most makes sense. I don't want Fire Eugenics back. All that said, it might also be interesting to have two people be able to S support and NOT be romantically involved. There's nothing gay about it in our eyes. It's guy love between two guys.♪ In regards to the Avatar/Kamui As "support with anyone" cheapens the value of each support, maybe Kamui can only support with a selection of his or her units. Or Kamui could have different personality options at creation that effect who they can support with. I like Waifu Emblem as much as the next person but quality relationships take priority. What they talk about If a compromise needs to be made between fewer and better supports and more but weaker supports, I definitely support (heh) the former. Supports should be used to develop character traits that are irrelevant to the main story but still valuable to understanding the characters. I don't want supports to discuss each others anime tropes. I want to get invested in the lives of my soldiers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Return to GBA system. 5 support levels/character, activate in battle. No S ranks, A ranks may get paired endings. Support bonuses should be edited by Affinity. The only difference from this I ask for is less something I want and more something everybody else does. Aka support points like FE9, but alongside GBA Support points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoKnight Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 The only difference from this I ask for is less something I want and more something everybody else does. Aka support points like FE9, but alongside GBA Support points. Can you elaborate on this? Do you mean support points gained by participating together in missions? I think that would be a worthy addition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Can you elaborate on this? Do you mean support points gained by participating together in missions? I think that would be a worthy addition.I- myself honestly prefer GBA support points (standing next to each other), but deploying together was very popular. Tbh, the best solution is both, in my eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topazd Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) I actually liked the FE9/10/12 method of raising support ranks the most. Other than that I'm going to have to sign the sentiment that less is in fact more - have less supports for each character, so that the convos themselves are more personal and inspired. It's also desirable to have not all male-female supports end in marriage. The same also applies for the avatar, if one exists. Edited February 23, 2015 by Topazd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Bunny Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I like Awakening's method the best so far. I've played a GBA FE and I found gathering supports there tedious. So, Awakening's method (probably with the change to healing that you described) but with far less people to support; Let's say 2-3. In exchange I'd like to see supports start at an E rank and go up to S, with A, B, and S supports exclusive to one support chain per playthrough. This would solve the "I stumbled upon a ring I guess we're married." problem with supports. I'd also make it so that the bonus to stats you get from supports far smaller. Probably a +1 to one stat while paired up after you get the E support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambulz Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I do NOT want to go back to my 100 turn maps for the sake of support grinding. I wasn't a fan. I'd still want the amount of supports to be unlimited, like in Awakening, but I agree that there should be a limitation of the support pool. While I also would prefer Kamui being able to support everybody, I think the personality-specific support idea is really interesting and wouldn't mind if that ended up being implemented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoKnight Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 I do NOT want to go back to my 100 turn maps for the sake of support grinding. I wasn't a fan. I'd still want the amount of supports to be unlimited, like in Awakening, but I agree that there should be a limitation of the support pool. While I also would prefer Kamui being able to support everybody, I think the personality-specific support idea is really interesting and wouldn't mind if that ended up being implemented. It's unclear at this point what Kamui and the players relationship will be. Kamui could simply be a main character Lord like any other but with some customizable features such as gender or appearance. Kamui could be just like the Avatar in Awakening and be a player stand-in that we are encouraged to "ship" with whomever we please. Or maybe he'll be a mix of both. The "Chrom" type character would imply Kamui has set relationships (we can already assume Kamui has canon relationships with his maids) and it's not up for the player to decide who they bond with. The "Robin" type character would imply that he can support with anyone and his life won't be especially relevant to anyone in the army. I like the "alternate personality" option that would limit Kamui to a set of support partners the best because it would allow the player to support with whoever they like, but still have a defined personality and past that fits certain characters more than others. Each Kamui would be a different person, but share some key points such as their overall role in the story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 The system in PoR. I mean, I guess it could also be a system were people get support points by working closely together with each other like if the both contribute towards taking down an enemy like in RD but I would prefer avoiding a system that encourages farming as opposed to efficently taking down enemies. If both units get bonuses, then that should be reason enough to keep them together as often as possible. The support bonuses in the console games were also the best. Those boni were always nice to have but you could still afford seperating units if there was a need for it. Also, there should be a limited amount of supports that can be done on one run. I mean, supposedly this is going to be a game about "choices". And if choices are supposed to matter, then there needs to be consequence. And there isn't much of a consequence towards selecting a support partner if you can just farm supports with everyone to max level. Romance doesn't work with the support system. At all. Even with a limited numbers of supports, you could still dig deep into the supports with another character, requireing them to be written in a way that does not imply romantic interest just like in Awakening. And you cannot develop a proper romance in 3 conversations anyway. Especially not dozens of them. IS got it right the first time, since they were usually only showing us the first steps of what would eventually lead into the characters growing that close to each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X-Naut Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I'd like a mixed system: the majority would be gained from natural deployment, but you can speed up the process (to a limited degree per chapter) with teamwork. As far as bonuses go I'm all for an Awakening-esque system where units being in range contribute to a unit's overall bonuses, although I'd cap them a bit lower (thinking +15 Hit/Avo and +10 Crit/Dodge). S Supports can be relegated to affecting paired endings only or giving a small bonus. And please no support cap aside from S Supports: having to unlock them all with separate play-throughs isn't replay value, it's unnecessary tedium. Other things I'd be in favor of are non-marriage S Supports (parent and child, sibling bonds), more support ranks at base, and expanding support ranges with support strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star and Moon Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I like them in Awakening except they kinda get OP, especially early in the game. Also pegasus knights shouldn't be able to block arrows for NO DAMAGE while you're paired up with them. That's happened to me before, and it's kind of weird considering arrows tend to 1-hit kill them otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Respite&Nepenthe Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 To be honest, I liked FE13's support style. Avatar should be able to support anybody, and I like romance/support-grinding. No children, though. In lieu of child-parent supports, I'd like to see post-romance supports, and friendship shouldn't immediately become marriage. Have them date first or something. In my opinion, romance--at least with the avatar--makes the game more immersive... That's just my humble opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) Return to GBA system. 5 support levels/character, activate in battle. No S ranks, A ranks may get paired endings. Support bonuses should be edited by Affinity. The only difference from this I ask for is less something I want and more something everybody else does. Aka support points like FE9, but alongside GBA Support points. This is easily the worst system FE has ever done for supports. PoR and Awakenings are miles better than the in battle wait 30-50 turns crap. Along with having to use a turn to support? No Edited February 23, 2015 by Jedi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 This is easily the worst system FE has ever done for supports. PoR and Awakenings are miles better than the in battle wait 30-50 turns crap. Along with having to use a turn to support? NoLike I said, add FE9 Support points on top of GBA Support points. That way, you can support without grinding eventually, but you can grind them if you want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) I know I'm in the minority, but I think I hate PoR's support system. I don't want to be tied down to which characters can support each other, or be locked out of changing my supports once I unlock them. The first time I played PoR, I honestly had no idea how supports even worked; they just looked like glorified base convos. Yeah there's something inherently silly about being able to marry almost any two people in Awakening, but generally I'll always prefer more freedom over less. Edited February 23, 2015 by Radiant head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Like I said, add FE9 Support points on top of GBA Support points. That way, you can support without grinding eventually, but you can grind them if you want to. Eh, sorry I jumped on that without seeing the second half lol. I know I'm in the minority, but I think I hate PoR's support system. I don't want to be tied down to which characters can support each other, or be locked out of changing my supports once I unlock them. So you'd rather have RD's gameplay-good supports, that lack any sort of narrative? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) Hell yes, gameplay will always be more important to me. It's why RD is my favorite game in the series, despite being a disaster story-wise (though better than Awakening's IMO). I appreciate what PoR tried to do with giving characters relationships with each other, but I don't like that being the basis of a game mechanic. Edited February 23, 2015 by Radiant head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I know I'm in the minority, but I think I hate PoR's support system. I don't want to be tied down to which characters can support each other, or be locked out of changing my supports once I unlock them. The first time I played PoR, I honestly had no idea how supports even worked; they just looked like glorified base convos. Yeah there's something inherently silly about being able to marry almost any two people in Awakening, but generally I'll always prefer more freedom over less. I dislike it, but more because I can't grind them than being locked to what I pick (which is actually how it began, FE6, the first game with a true support system, also locked 5 convos/character/run). I like grinding supports! Hell yes, gameplay will always be more important to me. It's why RD is my favorite game in the series, despite being a disaster story-wise (though better than Awakening's IMO). I appreciate what PoR tried to do with giving characters relationships with each other, but I don't like that being the basis of a game mechanic. Except that's the entire reason supports are there in the first place. In FE6, they were there to further character development, just like 7, just like 8, just like 9. While FE10's support system was easy to grasp and manipulate, it also took away an attribute the series had come to be known for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterIceTeaPeach Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) Gameplaywise I favor the FE10 support system because of its flexibility. Though everyone knows its disadvantage... And it's very unlikely to adjust each single support of the countless possibilities of supports Edited February 23, 2015 by Mister IceTeaPeach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I appreciate what PoR tried to do with giving characters relationships with each other, but I don't like that being the basis of a game mechanic. This has been a thing FE has done since FE4, I dislike how FE10 butchered them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 How they were used 10 years ago isn't my concern though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoKnight Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 I know I'm in the minority, but I think I hate PoR's support system. I don't want to be tied down to which characters can support each other, or be locked out of changing my supports once I unlock them. The first time I played PoR, I honestly had no idea how supports even worked; they just looked like glorified base convos. Yeah there's something inherently silly about being able to marry almost any two people in Awakening, but generally I'll always prefer more freedom over less. If you think there should be a separate mechanic that is similar to the bonuses of supports, that's fine but Supports have since become a core element of Fire Emblem and one of the series' most charming aspects. I haven't enjoyed games without supports half as much as those that do because the characters feel shallow without them. Even if people thought Awakening characters were one-note, a single one of them was more interesting than half the cast of Shadow Dragon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 How they were used 10 years ago isn't my concern though. Your concern is butchering one of the most key things to an FE experience the relationship between the various characters. Gotcha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 How they were used 10 years ago isn't my concern though.I see. You dislike one of Fire Emblem's most famous charms, actually going out of its way to make characters feel like individuals. Okay then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) Your concern is butchering one of the most key things to an FE experience the relationship between the various characters. Gotcha. Sure. Being melodramatic about it won't change my feelings. I see. You dislike one of Fire Emblem's most famous charms, actually going out of its way to make characters feel like individuals. Okay then. Only assuming that's the only way to make them feel like characters, which I don't. If I wanted to learn more about the characters, I'd rather have a conversations archive that has zero impact on the gameplay, while support bonuses can be a separate system. If you think there should be a separate mechanic that is similar to the bonuses of supports, that's fine but Supports have since become a core element of Fire Emblem and one of the series' most charming aspects. I haven't enjoyed games without supports half as much as those that do because the characters feel shallow without them. Even if people thought Awakening characters were one-note, a single one of them was more interesting than half the cast of Shadow Dragon. Fair enough. I think as long as I have RD-level control over support bonuses, I don't care what they do with supports Edited February 23, 2015 by Radiant head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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