Unnamed Mafia (anon) - Game Over

[All Might]

yeah I am miller (maybe I should have made that more clear)

##unvote, ##vote: insane techniques

give reasons for shit plz; the timing of your vote switch indicates it was serious

grillmaster, even if iketani didn't understand your joke correctly, where is the scum intent? what reasons would iketani as scum have to purposely misrepresent your joke?

[Aizen]

Hot wheels: I have no idea, I just got a bad feeling.

But

##Unvote

##Vote: Insane Techniques

That's the second time you've voted someone who already had a vote, and while your vote on me could be down to RVS, that vote switch is pretty bad because no reasons given, even RVSy ones.

[Marisa Kirisame]

Iketani's fire-related metaphors in an attempt to justify the vote on Grillmaster are both not clever and nonsensical. Makes me feel like they're hiding the fact that they're scum and are just trying to be cute in how they sell their reasoning, which is basically "lol I dunno who's scum and I dun feel like hunting so I'm just going to fire a blank".

##Unvote

##Vote: Iketani

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

##Vote: Schtolteheim Reinbach III

I remember a tale a friend of mine once told me. It was when we still called the Toran Republic 'Scarlet Moon Empire'. There was this bear of a man who claimed to be Schtolteheim Reinbach. But you know what? He was actually a filthy rebel! This name has a history of lies and deceit, born from trickery and foolish rebellion. There can be no doubt the scum would hide under a guise so vile, drenched with the blood of-- I mean.

You dare insult my honor, mutt? I challenge you to an honorable duel in the name of Schtolteheim Reinbach III, not in this facade of a location, but on the exterior plane!

##Vote: Schtolteheim Reinbach III I dislike names that are hard to pronounce.

Hello pot, my name is kettle. I say pot because how on Earth is one supposed to pronounce that wretched arrangement of words you call a name? Drah-Goon-Aight? Dray-Gone-Et? Drug-Un-Ete?

##Unvote

##Vote: Iketani

Explain yourself, scoundrel, or I shall arrange for your timely execution posthaste!

Iketani's fire-related metaphors in an attempt to justify the vote on Grillmaster are both not clever and nonsensical. Makes me feel like they're hiding the fact that they're scum and are just trying to be cute in how they sell their reasoning, which is basically "lol I dunno who's scum and I dun feel like hunting so I'm just going to fire a blank".

##Unvote

##Vote: Iketani

While I can agree that Ikatani's humor is lacking and his reasoning questionable even for a peasant, I would very much like to know how this reasoning is scummier than any other RVS vote, which can be summed down in a similar manner.

[Cú Chulainn]

They wanted to send me to the kennel. A dreary, sordid place where the homeless and owner-less go. Bah! Can they not see my regal paw and wise look make me more than merely a street dog? I would have them all jailed and the keys thrown away were I not, you know, a dog. Of sorts. I refuse to put up a picture of myself, it's embarrassing.

But enough about me, more about you.

##Unvote

##Vote: Fluffy Platypus

Trying too hard to justify hopping on the bandwagon. You cannot base a scumread on their jokes being unclever or unfunny. If it was, we all deserve the noose, because no one's RVS antics are remotely funny.

[Estelle]

Iketani's responses rub me the wrong way, because they're barely legible English. That's the best justification I can give. Hot Wheels' post is weak because nothing about the timing of my post indicated it was serious (and if it had been the lack of explanation isn't necessarily scummy), but Ockham's Razor says he are really is just a Town Miller.

##Unvote

##Vote: Beethoven

His vote doesn't seem to be looking for scum intent, just something to harp on. Trying too hard when there's nothing to base a vote on isn't scummy (if anything, it's a town-tell since they're eager to start the game).

Reinbach is asking a lot of token questions for the sake of being active and would be my second choice for a vote.

[Cú Chulainn]

(if anything, it's a town-tell since they're eager to start the game)

I disagree. Trying hard to make your vote seem legit is scummy, especially when the reason is "only this person's RVS shens aren't funny." Consider the following: Empty votes with no explanation are scummy. As scum, what will you therefore do?

It may be that I'm only a dog and you have me at a disadvantage, but I'm clearly voting based on scum intent.

[Cú Chulainn]

And if you disagree with my assertion, look at the two posts directly preceding Fluffy's vote. They're chastising you for voting emptily with no reasons given. Fluffy does exactly the opposite but gives bullock reasons, the timing of which makes it seem they're more concerned with appearing to be legit than actually making a legit vote. Sense of humour is not a scummy quality, although most of the unfunny jokers have backpfeifengesichten.

[Aizen]

##Unvote

##Vote: Fluffy Platypus

Trying too hard to justify hopping on the bandwagon. You cannot base a scumread on their jokes being unclever or unfunny. If it was, we all deserve the noose, because no one's RVS antics are remotely funny.

This "bandwagon" consisted of a single, completely unexplained vote, at that time. Do you really think that's a wagon worth working to get on?

[SB.]

Votals

Iketani (2): Fluffy Platypus, Beethoven

Insane Techniques (2): Hot Wheels, The Grillmaster

New Age Retro Scum (1): Schtolteheim Reinbach III

Schtolteheim Reinbach III (1): Dragonite

The Grillmaster (1): Iketani

Beethoven (1): Insane Techniques

Not Voting (1): New Age Retro Scum

You have 26(?) hours left in the day.

[Violet Evergarden]

##Vote: Beethoven

Are you Napoleon, Beethoven or Javert? I'm totally confused, dude.

[Ochako Uraraka]

I don't get it, I took it seriously and that's how you intended it so there's supposed to be irony/joking?

Make sense please! thank you =)

Naaaaaaah. Making sense is overrated, obviously.

##Unvote

##Vote: Iketani

Whee~ vote on me with no reason posted. I feel loved. <3

Iketani's fire-related metaphors in an attempt to justify the vote on Grillmaster are both not clever and nonsensical. Makes me feel like they're hiding the fact that they're scum and are just trying to be cute in how they sell their reasoning, which is basically "lol I dunno who's scum and I dun feel like hunting so I'm just going to fire a blank".

##Unvote

##Vote: Iketani

Or I could just be posting non-sensical things just 'cause I can and 'cause I was bored. I don't think there's a rule against that, unless I'm mistaken. :o

Iketani's responses rub me the wrong way, because they're barely legible English. That's the best justification I can give.

Well, that's just rude. I had no issues understanding my logic perfectly well; I can't help it if others simply don't understand my train of thoughts. :(

[Cú Chulainn]

Votals

Iketani (2): Fluffy Platypus, Beethoven

You have 26(?) hours left in the day.

But enough about me, more about you.

##Unvote

##Vote: Fluffy Platypus

Trying too hard to justify hopping on the bandwagon. You cannot base a scumread on their jokes being unclever or unfunny. If it was, we all deserve the noose, because no one's RVS antics are remotely funny.

Mod, was my vote overlooked or are nefarious powers in play, directing my vote as they see fit?

[Grace]

Votals

Insane Techniques (2): Hot Wheels, The Grillmaster

Beethoven (2): Insane Techniques, New Age Retro Scum

Iketani (1): Fluffy Platypus

New Age Retro Scum (1): Schtolteheim Reinbach III

Schtolteheim Reinbach III (1): Dragonite

The Grillmaster (1): Iketani

Fluffy Platypus (1): Beethoven

Not Voting (0): No one.

Fixed that for you. There are 25 hours 2 minutes left in the day.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Manix

[Estelle]

Point taken @Beethoven, but I don't agree with your interpretation due to what Grillmaster pointed out.

At the same time I don't like Grillmaster coming back to respond to Beethoven but keep his vote down on me without acknowledging my post. Reeks of non-effort.

##Unvote

##Vote: The Grillmaster

Iketani is like Reinbach but worse. I don't appreciate the passive-aggressive tone or the lack of real scumhunting. NARS please get a real vote.

[All Might]

insane techniques, your vote on iketani was right after a somewhat serious vote by grillmaster on iketani; I think assuming it wasn't rvs was justified, and besides you gave some reasons for it (sort of) so I was correct after all??? also your reasoning wrt me irks me. I admit my initial vote on you was whatever, and I can agree with the criticism of it, but I don't like how you just sort of dismiss it after saying that I really am just likely miller. like we've had several games now with miller fakes; I don't think a miller claim should be anything more or less than a nulltell and objectively speaking I don't see why occam's razor would say I'm more likely to be town than mafia bsing, just based off the miller claim.

also i feel like your jump on beethoven was unwarranted. fluffy basically made it out to seem that iketani's vote on grillmaster was srs mode and voted her for it. that's about as clear a misrep as there can be, and saying there's no scum intent in that is wrong. i think beethoven could have worded his vote better, because yeah, iketani wasn't really a bandwagon as such, but voting for a wagon isn't a necessary condition for a vote to be bad. and saying that that there was nothing else to vote for is false. he could have voted me for a kind of meh vote on you, he could have voted grillmaster for voting iketani for something that had no scum intent in it, and he could have voted you to pressure you into giving more reasons.

also you seem like all over the place; I don't disagree with you saying that iketani and reinbach and nars need to post content but that's just like "lurkers post more" type of thing and seeing as more people are doing it than there probably are scum, basing scumreads off it feels lazy to me

[Estelle]

Miller strikes me as unlikely to be a fake in a 9p filler set-up based on prior experience. These are the sorts of games where you have simple arrangements of roles like Cop, Doc, etc. I'd expect scum to be making a lucky guess at worst. Also keep in mind that Scum Godfather or Scum With A Miller Fakeclaim gives the cop only one potential positive and as such tends to be rare in small games. I don't think it's a bad modding decision but I don't think Manix would include one #ModMetaStrong

I still disagree that Fluffy's vote is anything more than null at a stage of the game where people are doing random shit just to get people to make real posts. Speculating Fluffy's other options is worthless because townies notice different things and giving a static list of "posts to jump on" only makes sense if you assume Fluffy is posting from a scum mindset.

Don't get me wrong, Iketani is scummy due to his tone, not just an irritating lurker. I don't like how touchy he got in response to being called out while still managing to not really do anything.

[Aizen]

Point taken @Beethoven, but I don't agree with your interpretation due to what Grillmaster pointed out.

At the same time I don't like Grillmaster coming back to respond to Beethoven but keep his vote down on me without acknowledging my post. Reeks of non-effort.

##Unvote

##Vote: The Grillmaster

This is a bad argument. There's nothing that says I have to respond to every single point you make, and it's not like I'm even comparing you to other reads yet. Your vote reads like a delayed OMGUS, like you were waiting to jump on anything I said to countervote me.

When I'm posting a one-line post, assuming that I was around long enough to make a comprehensive post is BS.

[Estelle]

Okay first of all please stop throwing around the word "OMGUS" to discredit people, it does not mean what you think it does. Here's a handy guide on how to figure out whether a vote was an OMGUS or not:

• Was the logic behind the vote nothing but "you voted me"?
• If Yes: The vote is an OMGUS.
• If No: The vote is not and OMGUS and if you think it's still innately suspicious to find somebody who's voting you scummy, especially when being run up early in the game, I don't know what to tell you (other than read Volcanic D1).

That said, if you think my empty vote looks bad, I explain why I made it a make a different vote, then you ignore this entirely, that's called a votepark. Town wants to find and push scum, not just have a vote down for the sake of having a vote down. Obviously I'm going to assume you have the time to make a better post unless you claim otherwise; otherwise I could argue that you're just as bad for not assuming I didn't just lack the time to explain my Iketani vote, which obviously doesn't flow logically.

[Estelle]

above post should read "why I made it and make a different vote"

[All Might]

the thing is that millers never get inspected. so if I'm town, the cop is more likely to hit scum than if there was just no miller at all. so I don't really agree with this but I guess I can see the logic process behind it.

wrt iketani, if someone said you could barely speak english wouldn't you get offended? I guess if she was posting to say that she COULD have also made real effort though.

don't agree about fluffy though. I can understand votes being weaker in rvs, but if you're making a serious vote I don't see a reason to blatantly misrep something.

I think most of your responses were generally OK though so ##unvote, ##vote: fluffy platypus

grillmaster, if the person for whom you're voting responds back to your vote, it generally makes sense to respond back. not to every post maybe but the first one at least. and you're here now, so what is your response to his defence? also why does it read like a delayed omgus? just because he voted for you and it wasnt right away? that's not a good reason.

[Estelle]

I'm reading Fluffy's post more as blowing something out of proportion rather than an outright misrep, which seems bog standard for that point. Do you think Grill is suspicious? If so, why's Fluffy the better vote?

[All Might]

blowing something out of proportion is making something that has a value of 5 look like it has a value of 10. what fluffy is doing is making a letter seem like a number. an rvs vote is completely different from a serious vote, and making it out to be serious when it clearly wasn't is scummy. what's the town intent in doing that? you're saying that he's trying to get stuff going and whatnot, but what sort of discussion are you going to get from something that's just clearly wrong like that? you're just going to get people jumping on you for making a stupid vote, and that's not scummy of them if your vote was shitty in the first place. like, who was even scumhunting at that point that it was scummy for iketani to just be joking around with fire metaphors?

I'm waiting for grillmaster to reply back to your original defence of your iketani vote before making a judgement there. also I dislike unvoting without getting at least some sort of response from the person I'm voting for.

[Aizen]

@Hotwheels - Well, his professed reason for the Iketani vote is essentially the same as mine ("that doesn't make any sense"), and it doesn't change the fact that he made an empty vote with no explanation at all. Even if he explains it afterward, it still looks bad. He didn't explain why he made the empty vote in the first place. So basically he *didn't* respond to my original vote on him, at least not in my eyes.

Obviously I'm going to assume you have the time to make a better post unless you claim otherwise; otherwise I could argue that you're just as bad for not assuming I didn't just lack the time to explain my Iketani vote, which obviously doesn't flow logically.

It does though--I asked Beethoven a question; that was all I had to say. Your vote wasn't all you had to say, or at least, it shouldn't have been.

I think mainly your accusation of low effort irritates me because I was taking the effort to read up and ask questions when I was really busy, and then you said I wasn't trying hard enough. I don't think the bold is obvious at all. I would assume that the person is doing the best they can, not assume they're slacking. I know I shouldn't but I'm taking a bit of personal offense at that and it's really frustrating :/

Also (about OMGUS) I'm saying that WAS your only reason for voting me, but you knew that was bad and so you waited until I said something else that you could pretend/convince yourself WAS a reason to vote me. That's how it reads to me.

[Aizen]

Also - Iketani, there's real content now, at least between me/Hotwheels/Insane/Beethoven. Care to comment at all? (This applies to everyone else, too, but Ike has been posting active nonsense.)