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So Why Is Micaiah So Hated?


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Haters do tend to overdo the whole Mary Sue thing at times, especially at those quizzes, where they invent shit up, like "She can talk to animals".

@Elincia: Contacts, of course. I assume not everyone is ignorant in her army.

Edited by Soul
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Haters do tend to overdo the whole Mary Sue thing at times, especially at those quizzes, where they invent shit up, like "She can talk to animals".

@Elincia: Contacts, of course. I assume not everyone is ignorant in her army.

I was actually looking a few pages back, and I saw a thread where people put Micaiah through a Mary Sue test. If I recall correctly, there was a HUGE discrepancy inbetween scores of certain users. I remember the haters of Micaiah would of course check her off in the department of "hair-color" and "talking to animals." Honestly, did those users even read the in-game script? Did they not realize they are playing a FE game, or for that matter, an asian game, where everyones hair is differently colored? Honestly, some players have so much bias, but just don't hide it very well.

If I remember correctly though, a non-biased user scored her and got her somewhere in the low 40's, which is not a total Mary Sue.

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Personally, I like her, but there are two issues that I have.

1. Gameplay-wise, low speed. Having come from the GBA games where nearly all the mages I used were okay to speed demons, (or at least seemed like that with enemies being weighed down with weapons,) having a Lord (Mage-Lord, natch) who sucked at speed and enemies who took their multi-vitamins was a real blow to the gut, especially in the Hide-and-Seek level (1-9).

2. The plot of RD in general. The Dawn Brigade doesn't matter once the Greil Mercenaries show up, and Micaiah herself pretty much falls out of importance story-wise once Part 4 comes to town. Once Yune wakes up, Micaiah simply becomes a plot device so that Yune can force everyone to unite and storm the final boss because she says so.

Doesn't help that Mid-Part 3 onwards is pretty much where it feels like the entire story falls apart.

Warning, rant ahead. (Subjective impressions of convoluted plot ahoy!)

Part 3: Rafiel: Guys, I have knowledge of a horrible atrocity. It was the Begnion senators who were responsible for the massacre of our people.

Beast and Bird Laguz: WHAT? RAWR!!!!!

Ike: Wait, didn't you already mention last game that it was Begnion who was responsible for the whole massacre thing? Since your people thought the herons assassinated your apostle and went crazy with the torches?

Sanaki: I thought so, but I guess once you guys found the dead heron in a Daein Church everyone thought Ashnard orchestrated the whole thing, including the death of our apostle. I could've sworn I already told you about the corrupt Senate, this shouldn't be news to you.

Skrimir: Whatever, let's just kill things. That always works in Gallia!

Laguz army: YEAH!

Part 3 Endgame.

Sothe: Wait, weren't we just killing each other?

Yune: Shut up, now work together.

(Almost) Everyone else: Sure, mkay.

Ike: Wait, weren't you that dark god who made my father insane and super-powered Ashnard on Hard Mode of the prequel?

Yune: I don't know, I've been asleep for forever. And I'm not a dark god! Shut up!

Ike: You cause destruction, destruction is bad, bad = dark, ergo, dark god.

Yune: That's mean, you're mean! I'm sticking with Sanaki. Behave, and maybe I'll talk to you again during the endgame.

Ike: But- oh, fine...

And lastly, part of the ending:

(Freshly unpetrified from stone) Daein Soldier: RAA! Uh?

Confusion all around the battlefield. Hm?

Daein Soldier: That was weird, but we should be fighting, right?

Cat soldier: Yawn... I thought we were, but I'm just gonna smile awkwardly and sit down, though I logically would have more reason to continue fighting than you would, given how beast laguz are portrayed.

The explanation of the blood pact was no better. Even with Micaiah saying it would work and using her plot powers to try and get me to understand, I was convinced it was a bluff until it was revealed that Naesala had one tying his hands as well. And even then, I was only barely convinced. Also, you think with how much Sothe was idolizing Ike, he would have paid a risky visit to him to let him know what was going on. Senator eyes and ears be damned, Sothe struck me as a little more rash than to just do nothing, given his PoR persona.

Course, it also doesn't help that in Part 1, you do some slightly significant thing for one chapter and then OMG! Everything is being FIXED and falling into place all because of the ONE THING you and Micaiah do!

Chapter 6: The plot: Begnion has a stranglehold on the land, you need to starting gaining some territories!

What you do: You secured the territory of Marado, grats!

The result: at least 5 or so additional territories fall to your offscreen army, all victories are credited to Micaiah, but you, the player, don't do anything. Same thing happens with Chapter 7 (with work camps,) and most strangely, chapter 8.

Chapter 8: What you do: Micaiah saves at most 6 prisoners from being executed in the swamp.

The result: Morale is boosted (fair enough,) and the army proceeds to go from even deadlock to crushing the army back to it's elite guard.

What.

One reason why this is bad and contributes to her hate: It wasn't nearly this easy with any other lord. Even for easy mode Lyn and bare-bones plot Marth (Shadow Dragon), each territory had to be dealt with in a battle by the player. There were no easy offscreen victories. And from a gameplay perspective, you really could have used the experience.

Basically, for a lot of the problems that people have with Micaiah, I identify the problems more with the story in general. Just from playing Part 1, I feel that things wouldn't have been so bad if she didn't have to compete with God-Mode Ike.

Oh, and as for sending Volke, even if they remembered he existed, they couldn't have hired him. Volke was busy hunting down Izuka at Bastian's request from Parts 2-4.

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Don't forget that she succeeds the Daein throne, even if Pelleas survives. I don't hate her personally, but she does piss me off. What I don't get is why these same people hate Sothe. He's... really protective, and I guess that means "emo fag" to some people, but he's also Only Sane Man on the DB side during P3 which should be with points.

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Ike: You cause destruction, destruction is bad, bad = dark, ergo, dark god.

No, it doesn't.

Still, good rant.

Well, there's his bellyshirt for starters...

Lolwut. It's stupid to be hating a character for it's fanservice. People hate Sothe because they oftenly underrate Jeigans, and heavily underrate him because he sucks after Part 1, apparently. They also hate him because he is annoyingly over-protective over Micaiah.

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Lolwut. It's stupid to be hating a character for it's fanservice.

I'm not the only one who dislikes a character for fanservice reasons y'know (If I remember correctly a certain member of these forums dislikes Nephenee for her fanservicey 3rd tier outfit...).

Edited by NinjaMonkey
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That's Richter. It's still stupid since it has nothing to do with the character's personality or influence as a unit. I know, it looks horribly stupid, and obvious fanservice is obvious. But you must've had better reasons backing that up. You can't just assume you "hate" someone because they wear stupid clothes. With that excuse, everyone would be hating on Lady Gaga.

Also:

Lol, that's it? I had her pwn shite in freaking NM. I imagine enemies are even more crap there. I don't see why you can't give her Resolve and actually have her double AND 1RKO. inb4"Others use it best". Yes, others do. But then again, you are playing Loleasy, they don't need it.

I think you forgot to read the edit. :3

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Actually, I think that rearranging the order in which you play the game would have improved matters. Play as the GMs first, fighting against the empire and against Daein, with DB members appearing as enemy bosses and hearing about the 'Maiden of Dawn' and her atrocities. Then play as the CRKs. Then you play as the DB trying to liberate Daein and you get to see exactly how Daein got so messed up. Then after playing through Ike's, Elincia's, and Micaiah's modes, you unlock Part 4.

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In my opinion, what makes Micaiah a Mary Sue is that even though she has flaws and makes terrible decisions, everyone still loves her. Having flaws doesn't keep her from being a Mary Sue. Not only that, but she has a lot of special traits that are exclusive to her.

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That would be awesome. Although, lol, DB bosses. FEAR EDWARD'S...7 base Str? Sothe's max 26 Atk with a Steel dagger at base?

Obviously as bosses they would have good stats. Since the DB section would be chronologically before Ike's section, it would make sense that when you're seeing the early days of the DB they'd be weaker than during the height of the war.

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That would be awesome. Although, lol, DB bosses. FEAR EDWARD'S...7 base Str? Sothe's max 26 Atk with a Steel dagger at base?

No, you buff it to something, like say, a Trueblade? Did the thought of automatic level up never cross your mind? Hell, there could be a chapter with Edward, Nolan and Leo as the bosses. Are you really suggesting to me that we put 4/0 Ed, 4/0 Leo and 9/0 Nolan to get utterly raped by your potentially third tier GMs? No, you make them good bosses. Do something like buff Edward to TB, Nolan to Reaver and leo with Lughnasadh so that they provide a challenge instead of being weak pussies worse than the enemies in 1-E.

EDIT: dammit anouleth

Edited by JBCWK
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Lol@3rdtierGMsbythestartofthegame

No, what I meant was that these DB bosses would start appearing later in, like for example, in 3-11. Goran could be replaced by, say, Nolan. Then perhaps replace some of the Begnion chapters with chapters against the DB and you can put all the DB bosses you want ehre.

Actually, you're gonna respond with something which goes "lol@yourstoopididea" so why do I even bother.

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But why would he even replace Goran if Goran is from Daein as well? And please, refrain from assuming things about me.

It was an example of how DB units can be substituted in for bosses. Nolan and Goran are both Warriors, and there could be other maps with other DB units as the bosses (Like for example, IIRC Isaiya is the only Myrm boss and there are no SM/TB bosses. Hey, we've got a perfect opportunity to put in Edward and Zihark!)

It's already natural. Bleh.

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That was Skrimir, and yes that was total BS. And you're right how no one calling her out was annoying, especially in Part 4. Yes they all had to play nice, but considering there's a chance some of those units KILLED the opposing teams units if that's how you played, they really should've been SOME mention of resentment. Especially Micaiah trying to kill Sanaki. That's kind of something you just don't brush off.

Sanaki and Ike spend the war constantly trying to reach a peace with Micaiah, even after 3-12:

Ena

The prince hopes to avoid the complete destruction of Daein and its people. He wishes to stop the fighting. We would like to ask you to implement a cease-fire and hold a peace talk.

Sanaki

We have attempted to hold peace talks with Daein on multiple occasions! They refuse to listen to reason, and instead choose to fight. We have no more time to waste on people who choose war over peace at every turn!

Ena

Your people are waiting for you in Begnion. Is that what presses you?

Ena

Yes, Sir Ike.

Ike

Elincia, please stay back. If a chance for a peace talk arises, I want you to mediate the whole show.

Elincia

I understand. Please be safe.

Sanaki clearly has absolutely no desire for a war with Daein. For example, in 3-12, she specifically chooses a route through the mountains that will allow her to avoid the mainland of Daein.

Sanaki

... To be honest, I've spent my life teaching that the goddess Ashera watches over and protects us. This is all a little hard to accept.

Yune

You don't have to believe me. You could just let her destroy the world...

Sanaki

No, I will do whatever it takes to save the people who were turned to stone. I will join the others in helping you.

It's not hard to believe that under the extreme circumstances, Sanaki would take the opportunity for peace.

And there are people who are reluctant to fight together:

Sothe

So what you're saying is that we all have to play nice and work together? Just forget about all that's happened?

Ike

Sothe, open your eyes and look around. There aren't that many people left to fix this mess. If you don't help, we can't do it. Besides, I would think saving the world is something we could all agree on.

Actually, it wouldn't be too hard to just send Volke in the first place. I mean, there are Begnion spies, yeah. But hiring Volke to kill Lekain and break the Blood Pact is a discrete contract. And it's not like even 10 people a day would be dying because of the Pact. They did have another choice, they just weren't smart enough and the creators wanted to do this so the teams would go against each other and do the typical "Rivals collide" scenario.

Um, how could they know to go to Volke? And they did have the choice, they even talk about it multiple times. In 3-12 and 3-13, they don't know how to break the Blood Pact. They only find out from Almedha at the end of 3-13 that it can be done by killing Lekain and tearing the contract. But even so, Begnion is a massive country. Finding a single scrap of parchment in all of that would be impossible in a limited time frame.

At the beginning of 3-13:

Pelleas

The curse on the blood pact will begin killing our people as soon as we do anything the senate doesn't care for. Defeating the senate doesn't guarantee the curse will be broken either. In fact, it may ensure it can never be broken. In which case, Daein's destruction will come more slowly, but it will come nonetheless.

Sothe

So, we can't attack the senate, and we can't ask for help. The only thing we can do is search for a way to get rid of the curse. This is driving me crazy...

Tauroneo

If we could only contact the apostle... But if the senate heard a word of it, they'd destroy us. Our hands are tied.

At the beginning of 3-E:

Tauroneo

The uprising in the empire continues. The apostle's people await her return as they fight against the senate. Casualties mount each day... We know how urgently the apostle's army needs to reach the empire. However, if we let their army pass through Daein, the senate will surely invoke the blood pact and destroy us.

Rafiel

But why haven't you told the apostle's army all this? Surely an alliance between your army and theirs could overcome the senate!

Tauroneo

Attacking the senate is not an option for us. If it were, we would have marched against them when this all started. If we were to side with Ike, the senate would use the curse against us. The death of the senate will not stop the curse.

Almedha

Yes! Ashnard once told me he'd considered killing the man who created his father's blood pact instead! I didn't know why until now... This means that we could kill the senator who signed the pact instead of Pelleas!

Micaiah

It's possible, but very difficult. We'll need not only to hunt down the senator, but find the document, with no idea where to start. Daein could be annihilated in the time it would take to look.

Amedha

Oh, Kurth! Please, please save my Pelleas! I need your help! Help me protect Daein until we get our chance to break the blood pact! I no longer have any power of my own. You're my only hope now, little brother. Please, Kurth...

See, this is all covered in the dialogue.

One reason why this is bad and contributes to her hate: It wasn't nearly this easy with any other lord. Even for easy mode Lyn and bare-bones plot Marth (Shadow Dragon), each territory had to be dealt with in a battle by the player. There were no easy offscreen victories. And from a gameplay perspective, you really could have used the experience.

Actually, it happens to Roy. He literally fights two battles and conquers Etruria, the second largest nation on the continent. Bern is conquered in two battles as well. Ilia and Sacae take three battles each. It does feel kind of lazy on the part of the developers to just have the victories offscreen instead of actual battles, but this game is already very long at at total of 43 maps, more than any other Fire Emblem to date.

No, you buff it to something, like say, a Trueblade? Did the thought of automatic level up never cross your mind? Hell, there could be a chapter with Edward, Nolan and Leo as the bosses. Are you really suggesting to me that we put 4/0 Ed, 4/0 Leo and 9/0 Nolan to get utterly raped by your potentially third tier GMs? No, you make them good bosses. Do something like buff Edward to TB, Nolan to Reaver and leo with Lughnasadh so that they provide a challenge instead of being weak pussies worse than the enemies in 1-E.

EDIT: dammit anouleth

Maybe not 3rd tier bosses, that would be a little bit ridiculous, but definitely towards the upper end of 2nd tier. Possibly supported with each other too. Plus it's a little weird how you literally see all of the DB in one place in chapters 3-6, 3-7, 3-12, 3-13 and 3-E, but none of them are in 3-11.

It was an example of how DB units can be substituted in for bosses. Nolan and Goran are both Warriors, and there could be other maps with other DB units as the bosses (Like for example, IIRC Isaiya is the only Myrm boss and there are no SM/TB bosses. Hey, we've got a perfect opportunity to put in Edward and Zihark!)

Tashoria.

Edited by Mr. Know-it-all-Anouleth
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Actually, it happens to Roy. He literally fights two battles and conquers Etruria, the second largest nation on the continent. Bern is conquered in two battles as well. Ilia and Sacae take three battles each. It does feel kind of lazy on the part of the developers to just have the victories offscreen instead of actual battles, but this game is already very long at at total of 43 maps, more than any other Fire Emblem to date.

You do realize that the Etrurian Army was already weakened thanks to civil war, right? And it's a continuous battle against Bern which obviously takes a toll on the army (since most of the enemies are Bern from halfway through the game onwards). The first half of Part 1 is against bandits or very small pockets of Begnion soldiers if I remember correctly.

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You do realize that the Etrurian Army was already weakened thanks to civil war, right? And it's a continuous battle against Bern which obviously takes a toll on the army (since most of the enemies are Bern from halfway through the game onwards). The first half of Part 1 is against bandits or very small pockets of Begnion soldiers if I remember correctly.

But the Revolutionaries were larger than the Loyalists, to the point where literally in between Chapter 12 and 13, the Loyalists were almost completely defeated. Plus, they had the aid of Bern, the other most powerful nation on the continent. So somehow, an army that effortlessly conquered one of the most powerful nations on the continent is defeated by Roy in three battles (counting Chapter 13)

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No, it doesn't.

Still, good rant.

Lolwut. It's stupid to be hating a character for it's fanservice. People hate Sothe because they oftenly underrate Jeigans, and heavily underrate him because he sucks after Part 1, apparently. They also hate him because he is annoyingly over-protective over Micaiah.

Thats true in my case, I hated him as a unit because I always thought he sucked up the experience for nothing which is what I thought about all the other jeigans as well. It doesn't help that he's forced for the entire game, although he's really helpful he just annoyed me ^_^. As a character though he's such a gentleman and he does seem aware and sane of many things.

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That's Richter. It's still stupid since it has nothing to do with the character's personality or influence as a unit. I know, it looks horribly stupid, and obvious fanservice is obvious. But you must've had better reasons backing that up. You can't just assume you "hate" someone because they wear stupid clothes. With that excuse, everyone would be hating on Lady Gaga.

I said that was one of the reasons I hate him, not that that's the only one.

I think you forgot to read the edit. :3

Oh, I read it all right. It's just that I don't feel like commenting on it.

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