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Improving the Genealogy Translation Patch


irtikliwT
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I'm very glad to see this patch updated!

If I use this patch, can I use my save file from 0.87d? I figure I can, but I just want to make sure there won't be issues.

By the way, regarding names...

I prefer "Celice" to "Serlis." Also, the TCG uses that translation.

Here are a few other names to consider (info comes from the FE wiki):

"Holyn" is identical in Katakana to the surname of "Cu Chulainn"

"Noish" should be "Naoise"

I can't remember if it's "Arden" or "Ardan," but it's supposed to be the latter.

"Cuan" should be "Cian."

"Ethlin" should be "Ethniu."

"Fin" is a real name, but it may have come from "Fionn mac Cumhaill."

As has been mentioned, "Aideen" should be "Etain."

"Jamka" should be "Jamukha." The name's Mongolian.

"Tiltyu" should be "Tailtiu."

"Briggid" can also be rendered as "Brigid," "Brigit," or "Brighid."

"Lakche" should be "Luchtaine."

"Delmud" should be "Diarmuid."

"Johan" and "Johalva" can also be "Luchan" and "Lucharba." Also, "Burian" should be "Brian."

"Leaf" could be "Leif," but I'm pretty sure it's a proper name on its own.

"Aless" should be "Ares."

"Faval" might be "Febal."

"Corple" could be "Coirpre," "Cairbre," or "Cairpre."

"Tyrfing" could also be "Tyrhung."

On a related note, in FE6, "Armads" should technically be "Almace," and "Durban" should be "Turbin." The names come from the Song of Roland.

Which names you go with are up to you, but I just wanted to let you know that there are a lot more names that aren't perfectly transliterated.

EDIT: You should totally call Johalva "Jehova."

Edited by Flock of Geese
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I'm very glad to see this patch updated!

If I use this patch, can I use my save file from 0.87d? I figure I can, but I just want to make sure there won't be issues.

By the way, regarding names...

I prefer "Celice" to "Serlis." Also, the TCG uses that translation.

Here are a few other names to consider (info comes from the FE wiki):

"Holyn" is identical in Katakana to the surname of "Cu Chulainn"

"Noish" should be "Naoise"

I can't remember if it's "Arden" or "Ardan," but it's supposed to be the latter.

"Cuan" should be "Cian."

"Ethlin" should be "Ethniu."

"Fin" is a real name, but it may have come from "Fionn mac Cumhaill."

As has been mentioned, "Aideen" should be "Etain."

"Jamka" should be "Jamukha." The name's Mongolian.

"Tiltyu" should be "Tailtiu."

"Briggid" can also be rendered as "Brigid," "Brigit," or "Brighid."

"Lakche" should be "Luchtaine."

"Delmud" should be "Diarmuid."

"Johan" and "Johalva" can also be "Luchan" and "Lucharba." Also, "Burian" should be "Brian."

"Leaf" could be "Leif," but I'm pretty sure it's a proper name on its own.

"Aless" should be "Ares."

"Faval" might be "Febal."

"Corple" could be "Coirpre," "Cairbre," or "Cairpre."

"Tyrfing" could also be "Tyrhung."

On a related note, in FE6, "Armads" should technically be "Almace," and "Durban" should be "Turbin." The names come from the Song of Roland.

Which names you go with are up to you, but I just wanted to let you know that there are a lot more names that aren't perfectly transliterated.

EDIT: You should totally call Johalva "Jehova."

I question your standards for determining what names "should" be or are "supposed" to be.

Perhaps you might share your reasoning?

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I question your standards for determining what names "should" be or are "supposed" to be.

Perhaps you might share your reasoning?

"Should" is not exactly the word I should (LOL) be using, but I'm too lazy to change all of them.

The names I mentioned all come from mythology. A lot of them are Irish, which explains the awkward transliteration. I guess "comes from" would be more accurate than "should." The FE Wiki includes an etymology section for a lot of the names from FE4. I just figured if the translator decided to change "Oifey" to the more proper "Aoife," then it would be more consistent to change other names to match.

This could be seen either as an argument for or against the name changes, but I just wanted to throw the name origins out there.

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"Should" is not exactly the word I should (LOL) be using, but I'm too lazy to change all of them.

The names I mentioned all come from mythology. A lot of them are Irish, which explains the awkward transliteration. I guess "comes from" would be more accurate than "should." The FE Wiki includes an etymology section for a lot of the names from FE4. I just figured if the translator decided to change "Oifey" to the more proper "Aoife," then it would be more consistent to change other names to match.

This could be seen either as an argument for or against the name changes, but I just wanted to throw the name origins out there.

You should also change Holsety to Forseti and Baldo to Baldr, since that fits the Norse mythology better. And Jugdral to Yggdrasil. And Blaggi to Bragi.

And to fit the mythology, Danan should be renamed to Danand and turned into a woman.

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I'm not sure what perspective you're looking at this from.

From a visual perspective they're dragons, but so are the FEGBA wyverns.

FEGBA has Manaketes = Dragons, other dragons = Wyverns (and wyverns also = Wyverns in FE8).

FE4 has Manaketes in a manner of speaking in addition to other dragons, so I have it follow the same rules.

Unless you think that the FE4 stock dragons are manaketes :?

No, I'm looking at this from a "These are literally dragons they're riding, as in, canonically storywise these are the dragons of Jugdral" FE4 doesn't have a Manakete tribe, It would be honestly confusing if you tried to justify them as 'Wyverns' when even the newest Akaneia games (which share a universe with Jugdral) use Dracoknight. This seems more like trying to force Elibes translation onto every world when it just doesn't work. Just like it didn't work in SS because Like Othin said, actual Wyverns and Dragons existed as separate beings.

Can someone more versed in the lore remind me of which version has the Dragons as being descended (but regressed) from the dragon tribes? I think it's Elibe but I can't be sure.

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You should also change Holsety to Forseti and Baldo to Baldr, since that fits the Norse mythology better. And Jugdral to Yggdrasil. And Blaggi to Bragi.

And to fit the mythology, Danan should be renamed to Danand and turned into a woman.

Let's not forget that "Barhara" should be "Valhalla."

I guess I'm alright with most of the names as they stand right now ("Skasach" is an improvement, if you ask me), but I'm gonna have to draw the line at "Serlis." Seriously. F***ING CHANGE IT.

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You literally had me until Serlis and Aoife. But those might just be a deal-breaker.

I can't stand this change, any chance you can realease a patch without these changed names? Or no changed names at all? I agree with most of the other changes though, but I believe forrest should be hero instead of ranger. Ranger makes no sense as there is a much different class named ranger in all english translations. Also, the class was originally supposed to be called hero http://serenesforest.net/general/prerelease.html#fe4.

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I agree with most of the other changes though, but I believe forrest should be hero instead of ranger. Ranger makes no sense as there is a much different class named ranger in all english translations.

These classes being

1. Ike's class in FE9 (which is a fellow sword-only, merc-like class)

2. FE8's Forrest Knight

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If we called her Etain everyone would pronounce it Etain. Meanwhile, http://books.google.com.au/books?id=nd9R6GQBB_0C&pg=PA162&lpg=PA162&dq=Etain+Aideen&source=bl&ots=ZIS08R5xIJ&sig=ZJpchCKCi6bRRhgcoG5ldnR7z0E&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_AF_T9PxPIXnrAf34azKBQ&ved=0CD4Q6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Etain%20Aideen&f=false .

There shouldn't be any problem using saves from unpatched games or from games from other patches in this line (savestates can have problems depending on where they are saved if text they're currently reading was moved out from underneath them).

If you are bringing up FE6 with the idea that I have any control over it, I only worked on the tools for it - Eaichu et al would be the people you would need to speak to except that they threw everything out. Both those names were used in FE7 anyway.

I'm not going to change any names which are fixed in English in FE4/5 (place names, Cuan/Ethlin/Fin/Leaf from the FE5 opening, etc). An official english source using a different translation would outrank them but I would be unhappy about it. I also don't believe that literal references are the only type of references.

Narga and Loputousu are Manakete-dragons (and the rest of the twelve gods but none of them show up in-game as dragons).

Guys I didn't change Forest Knight to Ranger Knight, only Forrest/Forest to Ranger.

I'm not going to change Serlis without a good reason. I could consider reverting Aoife as I didn't really have a good reason for doing that in the first place.

Edited by irtikliwT
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Narga and Loputousu are Manakete-dragons (and the rest of the twelve gods but none of them show up in-game as dragons).

No they aren't they are gods. Manakete means "Man that isn't a Man" in Fire Emblemese, these are not "men who are not men" they are deities. Dragons are not Gods, Gods can look like Dragons though. And again, Thracias Dragons are literal dragons, even if you want to draw the distinction between a God-Dragon and a Thracian Dragon, the fact of the matter is they are not Wyverns. In any sense of the word. It is not just a mistranslation to call them Wyverns but directly violating the canon. It would be like me calling Manaketes in Elibe 'Laguz' or calling the Laguz in FE9/10 Manaketes, they are not the same thing.

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These classes being

1. Ike's class in FE9 (which is a fellow sword-only, merc-like class)

2. FE8's Forrest Knight

Wow, I totally forgot Ike was a ranger in FE9. But yeah my point was about FE8. It would make a lot more sense if he changed forrest knight to ranger but it seems strange changing a hero-like class to ranger. If FE8's class really was called Forrest Knight in Japanese, than I think that class should be renamed in FE4 instead, Forrest Knight really doesn't make much more sense than forrest. Anyways, its not a big deal, now I just need to go find some proof for celice.

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You have read Levin's dialogue regarding the 12 gods, right?

not in a few years since I last played FE4. Which wouldn't change the fact that Thracias dragons are still dragons.

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FE8 made Forrest Knight --> Ranger an official translation. With that as the only point of reference, the similar Forrest Knight class in FE4/5 must be translated as Ranger.

Meanwhile, the Forrest class can just be translated as Hero. It's accurate enough and fits with what people expect.

Wyvern Rider --> Dragon Rider

Wyvern Knight --> Dragon Knight

Wyvern Lord --> Dragon Master

Forrest --> Hero

Forrest Knight --> Ranger

All of these fit with currently established translations.

Edited by Othin
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You get to field any complaints about them not being able to use axes.

You mean like in FE1/2/3?

And like how Great Knights use just axes instead of the whole weapon triangle?

technically it's anouleth's idea in this context, don't blame me

Edited by Othin
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No they aren't they are gods. Manakete means "Man that isn't a Man" in Fire Emblemese, these are not "men who are not men" they are deities. Dragons are not Gods, Gods can look like Dragons though. And again, Thracias Dragons are literal dragons, even if you want to draw the distinction between a God-Dragon and a Thracian Dragon, the fact of the matter is they are not Wyverns. In any sense of the word. It is not just a mistranslation to call them Wyverns but directly violating the canon. It would be like me calling Manaketes in Elibe 'Laguz' or calling the Laguz in FE9/10 Manaketes, they are not the same thing.

No, they are the same Manaketes from Akaneia, which is shown pretty clearly by this http://serenesforest.net/general/designer4_2.html.

FE8 made Forrest Knight --> Ranger an official translation. With that as the only point of reference, the similar Forrest Knight class in FE4/5 must be translated as Ranger.

Meanwhile, the Forrest class can just be translated as Hero. It's accurate enough and fits with what people expect.

Wyvern Rider --> Dragon Rider

Wyvern Knight --> Dragon Knight

Wyvern Lord --> Dragon Master

Forrest --> Hero

Forrest Knight --> Ranger

All of these fit with currently established translations.

^Yep, this is how it should go. I think You might have the wyvern/dragon changes backwards tho.

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If we called her Etain everyone would pronounce it Etain. Meanwhile, http://books.google....0Aideen&f=false .

There shouldn't be any problem using saves from unpatched games or from games from other patches in this line (savestates can have problems depending on where they are saved if text they're currently reading was moved out from underneath them).

If you are bringing up FE6 with the idea that I have any control over it, I only worked on the tools for it - Eaichu et al would be the people you would need to speak to except that they threw everything out. Both those names were used in FE7 anyway.

I'm not going to change any names which are fixed in English in FE4/5 (place names, Cuan/Ethlin/Fin/Leaf from the FE5 opening, etc). An official english source using a different translation would outrank them but I would be unhappy about it. I also don't believe that literal references are the only type of references.

Narga and Loputousu are Manakete-dragons (and the rest of the twelve gods but none of them show up in-game as dragons).

Guys I didn't change Forest Knight to Ranger Knight, only Forrest/Forest to Ranger.

I'm not going to change Serlis without a good reason. I could consider reverting Aoife as I didn't really have a good reason for doing that in the first place.

I couldn't display the Amazon page, but I'll just let you make the decision.

I only brought up FE6 as a bit of trivia. I'm not implying anything!

I don't mind "Aoife." I think it looks fine, but the pronunciation could be confusing. (I think it's "EYE-feh")

Also, what do you consider a "good reason?" I already mentioned the TCG, and I'm pretty sure everyone else prefers "Celice." I'd say those are pretty damn good reasons.

Oh, and if you're going to change "Celice" to "Serlis" because of Nintendo Power, why not change "Sigurd" to "Zigludo?" That's what they did in the "Descent of Jihad" article.

Edited by Flock of Geese
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You shouldn't blame Twilkitri for Aoife. He brought it up as an option, and I egged him on until he made the change.

Though it wasn't too hard to do that...

Holy crap is this really Willfor

Do Ike's class and Skasaha's promoted class use the same kana?

Of course they don't. There's only one "Ranger" class in the Japanese canon, and it's Ike's class.

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^Yep, this is how it should go. I think You might have the wyvern/dragon changes backwards tho.

The changes mentioned included renaming the Dragon classes to Wyvern. I am suggesting reversing this, as the Wyvern translations (aside from FE8's Wyvern Knights) have since been retconned with Dragon translations, replacing them as the standard official translations.

Do Ike's class and Skasaha's promoted class use the same kana?

Shasaha's class is フォーレスト - literally "fohresuto" (forest)

Ike's class is レンジャー - literally "renjah" (ranger)

So no.

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And the Latest Akaneia game called Dragon Riders 'Dracoknights' in english Though I hadn't read the designer notes confirming they were the same Manaketes

I support calling them dragons by the way, but I wanted to point out the thing about the Manaketes being the "gods".

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You mean like in FE1/2/3?

And like how Great Knights use just axes instead of the whole weapon triangle?

technically it's anouleth's idea in this context, don't blame me

Well, I was just asking if he'd considered the possibility. I don't think there's really a perfect solution; it's just the one I prefer. Forrest is kind of a meaningless word for most people, and Ranger brings up a lot of other connotations such as FE8 Rangers which use bows and a horse or FE9 Rangers which are unpromoted. But it would hardly be the first class name to be reused in a different way; I don't have a problem with FE4 and FE5 Bards being called Bards even when they're very different to FE6/7 Bards.

Edited by Anouleth
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