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FE: Awakening Hard Mode Tier List


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For those of you wondering on Olivia's lowness, I asked him the same thing. His reasoning appeared to be that due to the nature of most maps being either route or...I forget which else along with the lack of seize maps, Olivia's not as useful as she would be, and that there is a severe amount of danger with enemies so she does not have as much room to maneuver, limiting how useful dance actually could be.

This is... surprisingly really true. I've always had this problem with Olivia, and half the time for whatever reason she absolutely must kick back or else she'll kick the bucket. Her main use is getting Avatar to Rally Spectrum, then allowing him a second move to do whatever with on the first turn. If you slay all enemies on the first turn, then she can help Avatar do this again provided she has boots or something. And this is assuming a gung-ho, charge forward and do not use the Rescue staff playthrough btw. She's not invaluable, but she has very niche uses at points and at other times it's very hard to get her in a good place because she will get OHKO'd by Mire in later chapters (unless you work a Pure Water, Resistance Potion, and HP Potion with maybe a Rally and a couple stat boosters; pure water is annoying because it'll cost her a turn. There's also chapters where she will have literally one or two tiles where she won't be mauled and there are going to be no units she will able to Dance and give an extra turn to.

Having that said.. below Say'ri is a good place for her (and Henry for that matter). No matter how you slice it, Henry has the offense and durability for a C tier unit, and his good base skill combined with the Ruin tome (which Tharja can't utilize that well at this point in the game because her Skill is literally made of cock) makes him amazing chip and occasional OHKO material at base. He gets better and becomes more or less a Tank (think of a Magic version of Stahl but with better Speed) as the game progresses, but he is more difficult to get to that point than I am getting at. D Tier seems too low for him, especially between Nowi (who kinda sucks) and Virion.

Anyways, as I asked before:

-Why is Gregor in B tier?

-Why are Chrom and Sully in S tier?

-Why is Frederick above Panne?

-Why is Say'ri in the bottom of C tier?

I'm asking before I continue because I feel like these are not particularly unfounded, so I'm curious how you think they compare to their neighbor units. I may or may not bring in a couple points to respond to a (hopefully inevitable) explanation, but overall I want to see what your thoughts are. (In general, I think the top three units I'm asking about are too high and Say'ri is too low, but I didn't raise an eyebrow to any of those placements surprisingly).

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I didn't ask about Henry, though I really should ahve cause I wanna use him in my first playthrough. My team is gonna mostly be magical in nature.

-Why is Gregor in B tier?

-Why are Chrom and Sully in S tier?

-Why is Frederick above Panne?

-Why is Say'ri in the bottom of C tier?

I'm asking before I continue because I feel like these are not particularly unfounded, so I'm curious how you think they compare to their neighbor units. I may or may not bring in a couple points to respond to a (hopefully inevitable) explanation, but overall I want to see what your thoughts are. (In general, I think the top three units I'm asking about are too high and Say'ri is too low, but I didn't raise an eyebrow to any of those placements surprisingly).

I can't talk about Say'ri either, cause...Well I didn't ask and am also not interested. These others I can explain though.

From what I understood about Gregor, he apparently is explained to be really solid, but doesn't really bring anything special. He thought he could rise a bit (I think, don't quote me on that), but he apparently is a fairly flexible hulksmasher. Not sure where the weaknesses come in, cause he never clarified. He made him sound real good though, between his high strength, merc skills being really good, being able to flexibly promote or become a Bandit with reclass on arrival, etc. Made him sound a bit like Gerik from FE8.

Chrom I didn't ask about, but with Sully it seemed to be a combo of her having the most time to grow in tandem with her kid so she can give Kjelle good bases, along with having offense (early on at least I guess? He didn't ake it sound like it ever died down). Basically his explanation seemed to be that she was a good stat parent along with good offensive capabilities. I forget if he said that she made a good parent to Lucina or Avatar's kid...

Frederick above Panne I assume was because of early clutch, but the way you all seem to talk about Panne after a class change, seems she kinda handles the latter portions of the game.

So in fairness I'm assuming their positions are more a safety thing while Sully is more out of thoughts on being an awesome parent while also being a good unit? He might have to clarify more on Sully. Feel free to speak your points though. Don't know what you're assuming, and you probably have good points to throw.

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It seems to me that Tharja and Miriel should be right next to each other. They perform pretty much the same function since I doubt Tharja will want to reclass out of Dark Mage. Really the difference between them is that Miriel has a good chunk of better availability while Tharja has slightly better growths and instant Nosferatu access. They're so similar in their shared availability that I really can't see a reason for any gap between them.

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I could honestly see Frederick go down a bit (bottom of s tier?), since he's not nearly as useful as in lunatic, where he's literally the only character who can handle enemies for quite a few chapters. Because he's not handling 90% of the combat like in lunatic, he's going to fall behind much faster.

Edited by Constable Reggie
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@Zahlman

You have a drastically different experience with Miriel then, because it took me no time at all to surpass Ricken before even recruiting him. Like I said earlier, she starts off kinda suckish but in the long run (in my case only about 3-4 chapters on hard classic) she becomes really good, much better than many Ricken I've come across in streetpass. Better res in a game dominated by magic is a valuable asset, especially in the early game, and since you pointed out that her res is better that's another point in her favor, not against her. Miriel can easily reach D in tomes, E to D on anything is not a very long wait. She isn't very far behind Ricken in that regard when you first get him, and the wyverns should be taken care of by Kellam and Virion anyway because early-game mages are very squishy, just like you said. That said, you shouldn't really use squishyness against either of them since you wouldn't throw your mages into the front lines early game (at least if you're smart about it and use them behind others for finishing), so that point is moot as well.

I agree that Ricken should be higher, but Miriel is still the best mage in my experience. Tharja comes close as well, but Miriel (or even Ricken) could easily have been reclassed from 20 to a dark mage with superior stats all-round by the time you get Tharja or Henry.

Edited by MercuryHg34
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Frederick above Panne I assume was because of early clutch, but the way you all seem to talk about Panne after a class change, seems she kinda handles the latter portions of the game.

It's actually very quickly after Panne's Class change. I believe the Growth rates on the site are appear at least pretty accurate for Panne, after chapter 8 and a re-class to Wyvern Knight she just shoots up HP/STR/SPD/DEF wise(especially due to the heightened EXP rate from re-classing), level 10 nets her Tantivity, Support ranks with someone fast like Lon'Qu these give her really high avoid while still having extremely effective combat.

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It's actually very quickly after Panne's Class change. I believe the Growth rates on the site are appear at least pretty accurate for Panne, after chapter 8 and a re-class to Wyvern Knight she just shoots up HP/STR/SPD/DEF wise(especially due to the heightened EXP rate from re-classing), level 10 nets her Tantivity, Support ranks with someone fast like Lon'Qu these give her really high avoid while still having extremely effective combat.

That's good to know, cuz I had my Panne marry Lon'qu XD

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Is there enough of a difference to separate male/female Avatar on the list? It's up to opinion if it really matters since they'd probably just be right next to each other no matter which is on top (which I imagine would be female), but I'd think it's worth considering when you think of their class and marriage options.

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Is there enough of a difference to separate male/female Avatar on the list? It's up to opinion if it really matters since they'd probably just be right next to each other no matter which is on top (which I imagine would be female), but I'd think it's worth considering when you think of their class and marriage options.

lol, I see what you did there...

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Lunch break, time to address some stuff.

Panne will probably rise above Frederick. She's utterly ridiculous, and while you *can* give her that speed pair up, she probably doesn't even really need it after very little time.

Frederick does slow down, but he never stops giving good pair up bonuses (+4 str, +1 skl, +1 spe, +4 def, +1 move at base is really good), and you can drop him around the time you get kid characters and swap out his pair up with his kid's.

Miriel vs. Ricken is a damn blowout. If you're using Miriel it's trivial to get her to D Tomes by the time Ricken arrives, and by then she's probably matching him in Mag, slamming him in Spe, and still has the option to reclass to Dark Mage to take care of any defensive issues she has. Ricken, however, is always going to be in Speed trouble, doesn't have enough additional Def to take damage reliably, and has zero reclass options. At least Donnel can pass Aptitude to a kid, Ricken basically doesn't provide any real utility to the team.

Raven covered everything I really wanted to say about Olivia.

Chrom has good stats, solid growths, and great Pair Up bonuses, and can reclass into Cavalier to deal with a lot of his big problems. Meanwhile, Sully is just solid all around, has good growths, tons of availability, and is just generally an effective unit. The two of them combine quite well, actually, as you end up with Sully!Lucina, the best non-Avatar Lucina, and Chrom!Kjelle is pretty good as well. They're probably the shakiest members of that tier, but that's why they're at the bottom.

Gregor has solid bases, comes with two good skills, and can either promote quickly or reclass into Barbarian. The latter lets him go absolutely nuts, as Barbarian has ridiculously good stats and Bronze Axes are still 4 mt. He's still competing for that Second Seal, but he's a good candidate for it, and he's a pretty good unit right out of the box. He might stand to drop actually, but that's just a bit shaky in my opinion.

Say'ri... is kind of a weird situation. Her bases are good, but not great, and she arrives really late, but the main problem is that she has 2 supports total, one of which arrives even later than she does (Tiki), and then she has to compete with Anna for the Tiki support. She's not terrible if you really need a character like her, but she just ends up rather mediocre.

Also, maybe I'll include a little bit about Avatar (M) vs. Avatar (F). Basically, the only reason to go Avatar (F) is for Avatar x Chrom, because then you get Avatar!Lucina and Chrom!Morgan, both of which are very good. Notably, Chrom!Morgan is good because he starts as a Tactician, meaning he automatically gets Veteran, and he can inherit both Ignis and Rightful King from parents while still having Veteran and Solidarity. Otherwise, Avatar (M) is better simply because you get the double dose of Avatar inheritance goodness.

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That's not really true about Ricken. He can be a bulky rescuer akin to Libra. He doesn't need any good reclass options, because he already has that sage option (or Dark Knight to power up another rescuer). His defense is actually meaninful compared to Miriel when you're rescuing and need durability to survive the EP. His speed is also not as much of an issue as it would be in any other game, because there's a lot of spd pair ups and his growth is not too shabby (he'll proc it every 2 levels on average and gets 3 spd on promo). I don't see how a character that can rescue, ferry Avatar in the desert to get the Master Seal, comes early enough that he can fix his speed (unlike Henry) can be considered bottom tier. But then again, you're the same guy that thinks Linde is good in H3...

Edited by CordeliaxFrederick
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Rescue use on Ricken implies that we are levelling him to 10 and then wasting a Master Seal on him. This is after we already have Anna and Libra. Anna is clearly the best at it because of 7 Move, followed by Libra with his remarkably good defense. So your argument for Ricken is... that he's a third string user of a staff that we don't get nearly enough of, and only if he earns 7 levels AND a Master Seal, so that his 5 base Speed with a 55% growth can mediocre its way through the game?

20 HP and 6 Def is not especially all that good, especially when your Avoid is junk tier. If you're looking for someone to take the hits, he is definitely not it.

These arguments seem mighty shallow. Everything he does can be done by at least 3 different other characters, but unlike them he comes later (even as a rescuer, he's going to get rescue access after you get Anna and Libra), has terrible Speed, requires more babying / favoritism to get anywhere decent, and even then is still worse at these things than characters that show up already kicking his ass. He doesn't even have the advantage of being droppable because he doesn't really do anything notable to warrant using him before some other character.

Edited by Seven Deadly Sins
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The point Im trying to make here, is that he's not really worthy of bottom tier, because he can do things if you choose to use him. You're severely overstating Miriel's advantages over him.

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Great pair up bonuses and sorta clutch combat for a third of the game doesn't seem just-under-avatar spot worthy. Handwaving his mediocre/awful latergame performance for "just drop him" is not indicative of second best character in the game. We don't consider Fe6 Marcus to be anywhere near top of top tier, after all. You're severely overestimating Fred's usefulness in hard mode.

Edited by Constable Reggie
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If you choose to use Donnel, his growths kick in and he stomps everyone, then he passes Aptitude down to a kid and they stomp everyone again.

Efficiency: We are moving at a brisk pace, but this isn't an absolute minimum LTC tier list. No "character <x> shaves a turn in chapter <y>" arguments here.

Barracks: Not allowed.

Skirmishes / DLC / Spotpass Battles/Shops: Not allowed.

It's not gonna happen.

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If you choose for it to happen, it happens. It might take a while, or be difficult, but "it can happen". Is it worth the effort? Probably never, but that doesn't mean it's a foregone conclusion.

That, and I'm making a point.

As for asset/flaw, it's basically totally irrelevant in the long run. Unlike in FE12, where your Past/Present/Future and class choice dictated a huge portion of the game, including asset use, this game's avatar choices don't make or break the game, and aren't differentiated enough to bother noting them.

I should add a note on Avatar to the OP saying that there is no assumed gender or asset/flaw combination, they all work pretty much the same.

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Re: Olivia. If you don't use Rescue, her ability to extend move is unique to efficient play. The reason she's not as good as she could be is maps like 13, 14 can be 1 turned by having just 1 of Olivia, Libra, or Anna, plus a flier. Using all of them is overkill.

If you do use Rescue, she is invaluable to numerous later maps. The longer the Rescue chain, the better she is because she extends movement with no regard to the quantity of and range of Rescue on your team.

Speaking of which 13, 14, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 25, E are all bosskills, so I don't know where people are thinking there are tons of routs. Most routs after Olivia/Libra/Anna join are also fairly easy to 2-3 turn without an optimized team or strat, except for C24. Also why I think this game is boring for "efficient" play, but that's another story.

Again, it depends on just how fast you're going. I'm assuming it's not actually that fast if Ricken is the worst character and Olivia is D tier. >_>

Edited by XeKr
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I should add a note on Avatar to the OP saying that there is no assumed gender or asset/flaw combination, they all work pretty much the same.

Um.. Doesn't the +'s to the bases of the stats you up and lower kinda determine how good the avatar will start out. I mean I don't even have the game but you can't just go in and say -Spd avatar will end up the same as +spd avatar

Edited by Jedi
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I am not interested in big mclargehuge rescue chains for the most part, because running headlong through enemies with Rescue and Dance just feels like the same brand of copout as warpskipping in 11. Sure, you "can" do it, and it's technically the most efficient way to do it, but why bother playing the game if you feel like doing that? This game is fast enough without rescue chains and chapter skipping, I don't feel the need to augment it with skipping.

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If you choose for it to happen, it happens. It might take a while, or be difficult, but "it can happen". Is it worth the effort? Probably never, but that doesn't mean it's a foregone conclusion.

That, and I'm making a point.

As for asset/flaw, it's basically totally irrelevant in the long run. Unlike in FE12, where your Past/Present/Future and class choice dictated a huge portion of the game, including asset use, this game's avatar choices don't make or break the game, and aren't differentiated enough to bother noting them.

I should add a note on Avatar to the OP saying that there is no assumed gender or asset/flaw combination, they all work pretty much the same.

Hahahahahahahaha...what? Let's all go +lck -mag. It's super efficient!

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It's not gonna happen.

If you elect for something to happen it happens.

The point of a tier list is basically ranking how good (or bad) that decision is.

Edited by PK Gaming
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SDS - I think you should update the OP with something to that. Rescue is something that changes the flow of the game drastically enough that it should be mentioned in spite of the whole "shaves x turns = invalid" thing.

Also,

Chrom has good stats, solid growths, and great Pair Up bonuses, and can reclass into Cavalier to deal with a lot of his big problems. Meanwhile, Sully is just solid all around, has good growths, tons of availability, and is just generally an effective unit. The two of them combine quite well, actually, as you end up with Sully!Lucina, the best non-Avatar Lucina, and Chrom!Kjelle is pretty good as well. They're probably the shakiest members of that tier, but that's why they're at the bottom.
I'd say they're shaky enough that they can move down a little bit. How are you ranking units in terms of their ability to be parents? I honestly have a bit of a problem with it because it's really hard to gauge importance on fatherhood/motherhood, and it can turn into shitstorms about "Their quality as a parent is more valuable than everything else END OF STORY" if you're not careful.

But anyways, I feel like it should be Chrom > Sully > Stahl at the top of A tier just because of that shakiness. Though I agree that Cavalier/Paladin Chrom is amazing once you get him. My problem with Sully overall is that I've been kinda screwed with her and I don't trust SF's growths, but I can see why she'd be above Stahl so no arguments there. I just find it weird that Stahl is a whole tier gap below Sully.

Btw people, SDS is right but not in some respects. Yes, your choice matters. No, we're not going to sit here and tier all of the 56*2 combinations we can fucking have and barely give a shit about half of them because half of them result in the same ridiculous Avatar. And nobody is going to do +Lck -Mag PKL so there's no reason to tier that if it's just irrelevant. It takes the focus off of other characters too, which is arguably more important when you have the Grandmaster of Disaster roaming around and just being unarguably the best character in the game by leaps and bounds.

Edited by Lord Raven
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I am not interested in big mclargehuge rescue chains for the most part, because running headlong through enemies with Rescue and Dance just feels like the same brand of copout as warpskipping in 11. Sure, you "can" do it, and it's technically the most efficient way to do it, but why bother playing the game if you feel like doing that? This game is fast enough without rescue chains and chapter skipping, I don't feel the need to augment it with skipping.

Then make clear rules about it? It seems you're kinda allowing Rescue but not really in some cases. Just assume no buyable Rescue or something.

I also don't see why moving Panne/Avatar 11 spaces every turn for a 3 turn clear (22 spaces on the first turn with Olivia's help. ;D) vs. Rescue chaining it all in 1 turn is too much different, but w/e. >_>

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