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Should I use Illyana?


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Actually I had both Soren and Ilyana in an HM draft (yes, I was a stupid newbie who knew nothing about drafts 8D) and both got decent (decent in the way that they were able to survive serious amounts of enemies in some chapters like in 3-3). Well I had to give both of them a Robe, Soren had less sp than Ilyana, she capped it by 2nd tier :awesome: . I know she sucks if we see her average stats, but, as you said, that depends on how efficiently you play :P

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You also couldnt finish that HM draft thanks to how bad ilyana was at surviving the 4-P enemies.

I'll assume that was RNG screwage because enemies had 40-60 hit% AND she was in resolve range with 26 spd and she got hit by the enemies 8S.

Add to that a crappy Miccy and a worst bio Sigrun 8X

*delete file...*

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I'll assume that was RNG screwage because enemies had 40-60 hit% AND she was in resolve range with 26 spd and she got hit by the enemies 8S.

Resolve would only add 26AVO, so she can still get hit.

Add to that a crappy Miccy and a worst bio Sigrun 8X

*delete file...*

Use Naesala/Skrimir and just deal with the penalties...

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That depends on how efficiently you play.

Actually, Ilyana doesn't double anything. A 20/15/1 Ilyana only has 23AS which doubles literally nothing in Part 4 (a few things even double her), and it's unlikely she'll have significantly more than that in an efficiency playthrough, since she can't target it with BEXP. Even if she could double, Ilyana rarely 2HKOes, having only 36ATK with a forged fire tome and having no stronger alternatives until she reaches either S Fire or SS Thunder. Moreover, Ilyana is still not very durable since many opponents have a chance to crit her thanks to her abysmal luck. This is a problem that Soren faces, but it's not quite as serious since his avoid is better and Swordmasters don't double him. Moreover, Soren can take Resolve, since unlike Ilyana, he has enough avoid to be survivable in resolve territory.

In addition, it's a bit silly to say that IkexSoren is a stupid support in HM. Training both Soren and Ilyana is a stupid move to make, on virtually any difficulty. I don't even think that the IkexSoren support is that bad.

If you only have a 20/15/1 Ilyana in part 4, you are playing pretty quickly. I doubt Soren is in much better shape at that point. And since Soren is still 2HKOd by everything at alarming hit rates even with an Ike support and he doesn't double anything but armors, Soren x Ike is a stupid support. You have to sink way too much into Soren to make him double anything more and it's completely not worth it.

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If you only have a 20/15/1 Ilyana in part 4, you are playing pretty quickly. I doubt Soren is in much better shape at that point.

Well, I base that on my own experiences with Rolf. My Rolf (T) gained 10 levels between 3-2 and 3-11. If Ilyana shows up in 3-2 at 20/1, she's unlikely to level significantly faster than that. Maybe your Ilyana is at a higher level at the end of Part 1, I don't know. But even if Ilyana is 20/16/1 or 20/17/1, she still has 23AS, and even 24AS wouldn't actually let her double anything, and even if she doubled she would struggle to 2HKO. She'd need to be something like 20/20/4 for doubling even the most sluggish of Paladins, which is a ridiculous level in my opinion.

And since Soren is still 2HKOd by everything at alarming hit rates even with an Ike support and he doesn't double anything but armors, Soren x Ike is a stupid support. You have to sink way too much into Soren to make him double anything more and it's completely not worth it.

"Completely not worth it" is also a sentence that completely accurately describes Ilyana in Part 4. After all, she 3HKOes Paladins and doesn't double and gets 3HKOed back. Pathetic. At least Soren can 2HKO and might occasionally dodge something.

In addition, I only count ~20 enemies out of ~55 in Chapter 4-1 that Ilyana has a defensive lead against. There are still numerous enemies that 3HKO Soren; or 2HKO both of them. That list narrows even closer when you consider the possibility of Soren supporting with a +DEF affinity such as Gatrie, since almost all of the gap between them comes from Ilyana's defensive affinity (a 20/15 Ilyana has about 17.6DEF, while I estimate a 20/15/2 Soren that used BEXP in tier 2 has about 16.25DEF). And Soren often has leads against other enemy types, such as not being at risk of getting doubled by Falcoknights or Swordmasters and just having better avoid.

20/15/1 ilyana in part 4 is "pretty quick"

what

I drew on my own experience with Rolf (T). Then again, Ilyana is no Rolf.

I had like a 18/18/3 Ilyana by 4-P iirc 8S (HM)

I don't know if Narga is talking about a draft, and I don't know if Ilyana is that good in drafts either.

Edited by Anouleth
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Ilyana might be better in drafts than full-team RD since you're fairly limited to who you can use per part and her large availability helps out by just being in the team.

With normal RD, you can have access to all these people who're better than her, so she becomes quite inferior, but when your team size reduces significantly and bexp is in less demand per person, her usability goes up.

I'm being theoretical though. I don't draft RD so I'm no expert in this field so someone else besides me should provide an answer that's not so theoretical.

Edited by Luminescent Blade
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I don't know if Narga is talking about a draft, and I don't know if Ilyana is that good in drafts either.

Well, Ilyana is a good 2-3 round pick due to availability and going to the GMs, being a multipurpose unit (DB and GM filler, trading items and 4-P, 4-3 (Silver Route assuming Calill, Rhys and Laura were already drafted), Rexbolting Dheg...). She can support a good DB like Edd, Nolan, Jill or Volug and a good GM like Tit, Boyd, Oscar. She isn't shaving turns (in the way that she's really needed to do x strat) but she's helping with it.

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Well, Ilyana is a good 2-3 round pick due to availability and going to the GMs, being a multipurpose unit (DB and GM filler, trading items and 4-P, 4-3 (Silver Route assuming Calill, Rhys and Laura were already drafted)

Surely trading items is free?

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20/15/1 ilyana in part 4 is "pretty quick"

what

There's differing levels of speed. You've got casual, then regular people, then max bexp (Ilyana can easily get to 20/20/1 by midway through 4-2), then "pretty quick", then fast, then finally dondon and friends rng abuse speeds.

To you, "pretty quick" probably is the last one, so I can see the confusion.

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She is decent in drafts. She can help in 1-8. She can use celerity in 1-E and still transfer it. She can meteor the 3-5 boss and 1 turn the map. She can be rescue dropped by a cavalier and wrath the 3-2 boss if she has enough hp def combination. (she needs 38 IIRC). She can theoretically act as a BEXP soren in 3-8 (hint: destroys the map and 4 turns it) if she has enough spd and is promoted. Shes also good like every mage in the silver army. And then shes rescue bot in endgame and can do 28 dmg to dheg which is easy as hell to beat anyway lol.

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Ilyana might be better in drafts than full-team RD since you're fairly limited to who you can use per part and her large availability helps out by just being in the team.

With normal RD, you can have access to all these people who're better than her, so she becomes quite inferior, but when your team size reduces significantly and bexp is in less demand per person, her usability goes up.

I'm being theoretical though. I don't draft RD so I'm no expert in this field so someone else besides me should provide an answer that's not so theoretical.

Sadly, my FE10 experience is limited in comparison to other FEs, but I'm familiar enough with Ilyana to throw in my two cents, I think.

Realistically, a big strength with Ilyana is supposed to be her availability, which IIRC is the best in the game (FE10 has an odd way in using availability as a major factor in balancing characters). Her growths are actually lower overall than Soren, and frankly they're kind of wonky; why is her STR growth almost as large as her MAG growth...and hell, 50% larger than her SPD growth?

Nerfed thunder magic (giving up MT AND Hit for a meager amount of crit? Yeah, no...I'll stick with fire...or air...) and relatively poor caps in comparison to other sages (which already have mediocre caps in FE10) don't help her case either. I like her as a character, and I enjoyed using her in FE9 (where she was decent), but RD is not kind to her, especially in HM where enemies hit harder and are faster. She not only fails to double, she also can be doubled by the fastest enemies (again, IIRC).

It sucks, and she's not even that cool in NM, where she has more of a fighting chance. Hell, I don't think part 1 in general really doesn't like tier 1 units. It's a bit difficult to train tier 1 units when tier 2 units like Zihark and Tauroneo are just that much...better out of the box.

I'd agree with Lumi that she might be a better draft pick since I'd imagine availability is a big factor in choosing units.

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Actually I think Ilyana is better in drafts than in casual play throughs because, at least imo, drafts motivate you to make your drafted units look the best way possible (even to cause envy :D) since they're your only resources, besides free units, to clear the game.

Casual play throughs are more flexible imo.

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Not actually weighing on on the debate here, just actually curious towards this supposed 'difficulty' in training and promoting the DB units. Considering my Normal mode run ended 1-E with all of the Dawn Brigade sans Meg and Laura (Fiona I did out of sheer masochisim, and I forgot to buy Heal Staffs for Laura. Not that she was getting used or anything useless bint has terrible god damn speed) promoted and on their way into Tier 2 For list sake that's Nolan, Aran, Edward, Illyana, Jill and Leonardo that were all promoted through normal means. with Fiona being the only one I actually gamed the system with. Now obviously I'm not playing LTC or Draft, but again I'm not weighing in on "Is Illyana useful" Just saying I'm struggling to see this percieved notion that the DB is struggling for EXP. And for the record, I don't think I used BEXP for a level more than once or twice. mostly it wa just used to bump to 99.

Edited by Onmi
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Not actually weighing on on the debate here, just actually curious towards this supposed 'difficulty' in training and promoting the DB units. Considering my Normal mode run ended 1-E with all of the Dawn Brigade sans Meg and Laura (Fiona I did out of sheer masochisim, and I forgot to buy Heal Staffs for Laura. Not that she was getting used or anything useless bint has terrible god damn speed) promoted and on their way into Tier 2 For list sake that's Nolan, Aran, Edward, Illyana, Jill and Leonardo that were all promoted through normal means. with Fiona being the only one I actually gamed the system with. Now obviously I'm not playing LTC or Draft, but again I'm not weighing in on "Is Illyana useful" Just saying I'm struggling to see this percieved notion that the DB is struggling for EXP. And for the record, I don't think I used BEXP for a level more than once or twice. mostly it wa just used to bump to 99.

... How long are you taking on the maps. Honestly, playing on a normal run, and i play casually when i'm not in a draft (normal mode btw), I usually can only get like 4 units tops at 2nd tier by the end and i sometimes see my self a little pressed because i get skrewed in part 3... And this is by like taking 8-10 turns per chapter...

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... How long are you taking on the maps. Honestly, playing on a normal run, and i play casually when i'm not in a draft (normal mode btw), I usually can only get like 4 units tops at 2nd tier by the end and i sometimes see my self a little pressed because i get skrewed in part 3... And this is by like taking 8-10 turns per chapter...

Not too long. While I DO try to kill as many enemies as I can (literally the only reason 2-E took me 8 turns instead of 6 is I wanted Brom and Nephenee to clean up the left Alleyway. Otherwise Mordecai and Haar could have lopped off Ludvecks head the moment Geoffery arrived... useless git. Then Neph broke her Stl Greatlance and rather than run her half way across the map to get a replacement I just MordeHaared Ludveck.) Other than 1-E (Again, the stupid "Lets raise Fiona to Lance Paladin because I hate myself despite knowing I wont use her at all) I mostly (depending on the map) leave unit where I know Reinforcements are coming so they can clean up immediatly. The two maps I can think of where I took a legitimate length of time doing was the Swamp and the Prison. The former was just a bullshit slog that went wrong from the very beginning, and the second I was just waiting for the last prisoner to escape. Oh and 1-7(Part 1) because of the constant reinforcements.

General rule of thumb was try to hit all non-hidden treasure (Missed quite a few hidden ones) and no need to be Sanic and GOTTA GO FAST. I don't have the game with me but I think I roughly spent around the same time, give or take a few turns on the prison map, and definitly give turns for the swamp (God I fucking hate that swamp, hey lets make a map that impairs movement then remove your only flyer, BRILLIANT!)

Oh, I also didn't bother saving the Master Crests I did collect and popped them the moment a unit hit 20, and if a unit was close (I believe Aran was at 18) I would BEXP the last two levels or so and then pop the crest.

My Leonardo is the most surprising since he's surprisingly not shit (+5 on his strength average when he promoted IIRC, I'm currently at 3-2 So I can't go check on him) but I don't think I wasted time on each chapter. Not a speed run by any means but I don't turtle.

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