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[From hack to indie] Path of the Midnight Sun


Alfred Kamon
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I found a few dialogue errors in a couple of places.

"How do you know that there was a conspiracy at palace?" I think you're missing a "the" right there. :3

also Fa says "they are too many"

"I go to pierce that neck"

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Well, I love the animation for the Dimension Knight, but you really need an editor to go over your text. I know you want to do this entirely by yourself, and you're doing damn good so far! But editing and writing are two very different tasks, and no matter how proficient you are, you really, really need an editor to catch stupid mistakes.

The Linus splice is terrifying. THAT HEAD.

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It was nice hearing Dahlia Hawthorne's theme at the end of Ch.1, even if that theme has creeped me out since I finished the 3rd PW game. I like the story so far, although I would say the dialogue needs polish.

I'm excited to see more!

Oh my, did you recognize it? RESPECT. =D

Yeah I was scared by that theme too (and by Dahlia herself D: ), ahah. In this game, it will probably be Rya's theme.

Anyway thank you for the support! And yes, I will polish the dialogues.

I found a few dialogue errors in a couple of places.

"How do you know that there was a conspiracy at palace?" I think you're missing a "the" right there. :3

also Fa says "they are too many"

"I go to pierce that neck"

Thank you for that. I try my best but not being english native I make some silly mistakes sometimes.

Let me get over these; it should be:

"I go piercing that neck"

"There are too many"

"[...]a conspiracy at the palace"

Right?

I thought that "at palace" wasn't wrong because I was thinking about "at home", which is correct that way. But "home" must be an exception. Also, is it "at court" or "at the court"? Because "palace" is intended as "court" in that sentence, and not as the building.

Well, I love the animation for the Dimension Knight, but you really need an editor to go over your text. I know you want to do this entirely by yourself, and you're doing damn good so far! But editing and writing are two very different tasks, and no matter how proficient you are, you really, really need an editor to catch stupid mistakes.

The Linus splice is terrifying. THAT HEAD.

Thank you very much! ^^ I'm really glad you appreciated the Knight and the ideas so far! =)

About the animation: he can really attack at distance only with D.D. Swords (and another D.D. weapon which can be found later in the game) since not every weapon can pass through the Dimensions with Helios. So, the D.D.s are special weapons, and that's why they're "Prf" exclusive to him. This will also be explained later in the game.

Yeah that sprite is awful... will fix later.

About text editing: I think I'm seriously considering it.

Well, you're right: writing the plot and editing grammar errors are two very different tasks. So, if anyone wants to take on the "text editor" place, he's free to do so and it would be appreciated. When I finish writing a chapter text, I just pass it out to that person for review.

Or also, anyone can say what they find odd in the text, like Piss Assassin Alchemist did, just watching the videos. It's up to you.

Edited by AlfredKamon
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I'm a native English speaker myself, and I write a lot, so I can volunteer for that job if you wish. Obviously if anyone else wants to help out, by all means they can, but I'm more than happy to assist as needed.

I would be glad to count on your help, thank you very much!

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Thank you for that. I try my best but not being english native I make some silly mistakes sometimes.

Let me get over these; it should be:

"I go piercing that neck"

"There are too many"

"[...]a conspiracy at the palace"

Right?

I thought that "at palace" wasn't wrong because I was thinking about "at home", which is correct that way. But "home" must be an exception. Also, is it "at court" or "at the court"? Because "palace" is intended as "court" in that sentence, and not as the building.

I'll just cover these real quick. "I go piercing that neck" is still awkward. Try "I see some necks that need piercing."

"There are too many" is correct.

"at the palace" is correct. Like you said, that one is a bit weird. At court is proper, as is at the court, depending on what you mean. At court would refer to the people make up the court or a meeting of those people, while at the court would refer to the location.

Don't use so many elipses.

Watch the comma splicing. Commas can't be used to connect whole sentences. A comma and a conjunction or a semicolon can.

Alright - I messaged you a few minutes ago, and I'll just give you my email so you can send me the script ahead of time.

This brings up another point, though a minor one. All right is two words. Not alright, not allright. Two words. It's not a big deal--people use it plenty, but it's not a "real" word. This just something to do if you want it to look more professional.

Edited by bottlegnomes
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I'll just cover these real quick. "I go piercing that neck" is still awkward. Try "I see some necks that need piercing."

It's totally out of context.

I don't know if you have seen the video, but Rya firstly says that she saw a neck, then the dialogue continues and finally she states "I go piercing that neck I was talking about". It's fine to me like it is now.

Thank you for the other information.

@seph: If "alright" has started to become more widely accepted, then it isn't correct in a medieval context, isn't it?

"Shut up! This isn't about logic!" (who understands the quote gets a cookie)

Anyway the game has plenty of material I'd love getting commented apart from grammar stuff.

What do you think about it, battlegnomes? And you, seph? And you again, Jubby (you watched the video after all if you know which range has the D.D. sword)?

Seriously, since you commented, I would like to hear your opinion as well. =)

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What do you think about it, battlegnomes? And you, seph?

I'm not very impressed by your whole project. Hopefully you can turn it into something, eventually.

as for why, it's a combination of the unimpressive sprites, the seemingly rushed story, and the tilespam map that I saw in the video.

but hey, maybe you can make it impressive with some polish. Here's hoping; good luck to you.

Edited by seph1212
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The map for Ch1 doesn't look that bad to me, especially if it's supposed to be some kind of main road. I mean it's easy to complain about tile spam (especially forests), but it's really not that much of a tragedy in this case. It's nothing special, but it's way better than that prologue map, and at least the tile spam makes some kind of sense in context, even if it is excessive regardless. The worst part of the map is the mountain/hill tiles, then the unrealistically perfect road (even if it's a main road, it's not like they had mechanical pavers in medieval times, lol), then the little patches where there is nothing but green, then the random tree groups. Just spacing the forested area out more would fix both the green spam and the forest tile groups.

Anyway, I checked out both videos, not really sure what to think. The whole rape/sex slavery implication in the prologue is a big turn off, it's one of the most alarming signs of weak writing. That type of thing just cannot be thrown in randomly, and it almost never has the effect on people that you want it to when you do that. They just end up a little angry that you even went there. It's not something you can just toss out there whenever you want to make a scene darker or more dramatic. Other than that, most of what can be said about the writing already has been. A lot of the things I'd be critical of could exist because you haven't created chapters far enough yet to fill in some glaring blanks. I understand that stories don't have to be spoon fed to the reader, and I'd hope that you intend for a lot more things to come to light in time. Of course, a fair amount of people are going to be upset if the story is not spoon fed to them ("this doesn't make sense, how come it was not explained immediately?!?!?!"), so choose which audience you want to pander to and stick with it :P.

Edited by Tangerine
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It's totally out of context.

I don't know if you have seen the video, but Rya firstly says that she saw a neck, then the dialogue continues and finally she states "I go piercing that neck I was talking about". It's fine to me like it is now.

Just so you know, this is going to sound awful in English regardless of what you do. Really, if you MUST keep it you should use "I'll go cut that neck." (or, depending on context, "I'll just go cut that neck...", but only use that if they're supposed to be trailing off or whatever, I didn't watch the video so I don't know) and drop the words after that, but it still sounds incredibly awkward and someone saying they see a neck sounds stupid in and of itself.

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Surely it should be more like "I'll cut his throat"?

Oh. Yeah. That ACTUALLY works. Huh. "I see a neck" part is still awful though.

Edited by Hikarasuman
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Sorry, that sounded kinda asinine xD. Anyway, I'll flip you the edits later today, as soon as I finish them all. I do have to go to work, but I'll try and send them back by the end of the day!

It's okay, I was not offended. XP

I'll wait then. =) Just take your time, don't worry.

I'm not very impressed by your whole project. Hopefully you can turn it into something, eventually.

as for why, it's a combination of the unimpressive sprites, the seemingly rushed story, and the tilespam map that I saw in the video.

but hey, maybe you can make it impressive with some polish. Here's hoping; good luck to you.

It's alright, I guess. I'd have to agree with seph on the sprites/map, they're pretty bad. I know you're all about story, but you can't rush the other aspects, that makes for a boring game :/

Thank you for the feedbacks! Seriously, you often were looking out this topic and briefly commenting here and there, but I just didn't catch the overall impression you had about this.

It's okay, I'm glad you said me your opinions. I just want to point out that it's not my intention to make a hack "all about story", Jubby... to be honest I pass much more time on all the aspects on the game than writing itself.

Also because writing is kinda easy but learning how to edit this or that thing isn't. And I'm in that phase where I still have to 'learn' a lot of stuff. I don't want to make a boring game, absolutely! I am the first who wants to enjoy playing it. And I'm a gamer along with a writer. Be sure that I'm not forgetting gameplay. I just have to polish everything here and there because I'm still new to this, but I'll do it. I'll improve. I don't think the sprites will ever be impressive - I'm not an artist like AstraLunaSol or whoever - but I at least try keeping the GBA FE standard (which was far surpassed by new spriters here, I know, and that's why it looks unimpressive) making the sprites not horrible. Also, I think I can improve my art skills in this, so I'll get better when I have time.

Overall, thank you for the impressions! They really were refreshing - feel like I still have much to do! :3

The map for Ch1 doesn't look that bad to me, especially if it's supposed to be some kind of main road. I mean it's easy to complain about tile spam (especially forests), but it's really not that much of a tragedy in this case. It's nothing special, but it's way better than that prologue map, and at least the tile spam makes some kind of sense in context, even if it is excessive regardless. The worst part of the map is the mountain/hill tiles, then the unrealistically perfect road (even if it's a main road, it's not like they had mechanical pavers in medieval times, lol), then the little patches where there is nothing but green, then the random tree groups. Just spacing the forested area out more would fix both the green spam and the forest tile groups.

Anyway, I checked out both videos, not really sure what to think. The whole rape/sex slavery implication in the prologue is a big turn off, it's one of the most alarming signs of weak writing. That type of thing just cannot be thrown in randomly, and it almost never has the effect on people that you want it to when you do that. They just end up a little angry that you even went there. It's not something you can just toss out there whenever you want to make a scene darker or more dramatic. Other than that, most of what can be said about the writing already has been. A lot of the things I'd be critical of could exist because you haven't created chapters far enough yet to fill in some glaring blanks. I understand that stories don't have to be spoon fed to the reader, and I'd hope that you intend for a lot more things to come to light in time. Of course, a fair amount of people are going to be upset if the story is not spoon fed to them ("this doesn't make sense, how come it was not explained immediately?!?!?!"), so choose which audience you want to pander to and stick with it :P.

Mmmh.... where did you see a rape/sex slavery implication? I really didn't intend that.. o,o (maybe I wrote ambiguous things without noticing! Please inform me ; ))

Anyway yeah, the plot seems a bit rushed in some points, and I'll fix them, but overall everything will get clearer in the next chapters.

For example, for now nobody can tell why the hell is Fa acting like that. It just seems exaggerated and forced. But there is a rational answer to that as well. This will be covered in chapter 2.

Thank you for the suggestions about the map, too!

I will try fixing the forest and green areas.

About the roads, how could I make it "less perfect" with the tileset I have.. And anyway, medieval roads were far more perfect than how you can imagine, I also live in a city where big areas still keep roads from ROMAN times (so 1000 years before) which are totally plain and well-structured. : P

Just so you know, this is going to sound awful in English regardless of what you do. Really, if you MUST keep it you should use "I'll go cut that neck." (or, depending on context, "I'll just go cut that neck...", but only use that if they're supposed to be trailing off or whatever, I didn't watch the video so I don't know) and drop the words after that, but it still sounds incredibly awkward and someone saying they see a neck sounds stupid in and of itself.

No, I can assure you it's pretty much okay.

If you watched the video you would understand.

In the middle of the battle, Rya watches down from a cliff and sees a neck to pierce with her arrows - she's an archer, in fact. So it's not about "cutting throats", but about detecting an enemy weak spot from long distance. This, and the dialogue itself IS somehow awkward.

Edited by AlfredKamon
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Lots of stuff to reply to.

I feel like Google spellcheck lied to me.

It hasn't, alright has started to become more widely accepted in use as a word, and most online and real dictionaries have started including it.

so feel free to use and abuse it ~( ' 3')~

Sort of. It's becoming more and more accepted, but hasn't been officially accepted, like if you have a high level college writing class or were trying to get something published, your teacher/the editor would make you correct it, but otherwise there's a good chance it will never come up. Basically, give it 20 years and it will be. But for now, it's not.

Also, spellcheck is stupid.

It's totally out of context.

I don't know if you have seen the video, but Rya firstly says that she saw a neck, then the dialogue continues and finally she states "I go piercing that neck I was talking about". It's fine to me like it is now.

Thank you for the other information.

Like Ano said, "Time to slit/cut some throats" would work well.

EDIT: Just read your last post. In that case, something like "Time to pierce some throats" should work.

@seph: If "alright" has started to become more widely accepted, then it isn't correct in a medieval context, isn't it?

Actually, it's the opposite. Alright only came into use at all around 100 years ago. Since this is supposed to be Medieval, it should definitely be all right.

[/color]Anyway the game has plenty of material I'd love getting commented apart from grammar stuff.

What do you think about it, battlegnomes? And you, seph? And you again, Jubby (you watched the video after all if you know which range has the D.D. sword)?

Seriously, since you commented, I would like to hear your opinion as well. =)

Send me the script and I'll go over it, not just grammar, whole plot, when I get time. Watching videos is tedious and makes it more difficult. For now, it's very awkward. You're narrating through dialogue way too much, your story is in danger of becoming melodramatic, and there are some things that don't make sense, like the knights not recognizing the princess of their kingdom. It'd be one thing if they weren't soldiers at the palace, but at some far off place.

The sprites and stuff could use some work, but I'm no expert, so I'll leave that to people more familiar than myself.

The map for chapter one is rather uninteresting. It's not really a problem, as it's only chapter 1, but taking Tangerine's advice would help. Also, try adding some houses. Basically, more tile variation.

As for the chapter itself, I haven't played it, but from the looks of it, the only reason you won was some luck dodges. You might want to balance it more. Try having Fa and co. start farther away from the enemies, like at the other end of the map.

The map for Ch1 doesn't look that bad to me, especially if it's supposed to be some kind of main road. I mean it's easy to complain about tile spam (especially forests), but it's really not that much of a tragedy in this case. It's nothing special, but it's way better than that prologue map, and at least the tile spam makes some kind of sense in context, even if it is excessive regardless. The worst part of the map is the mountain/hill tiles, then the unrealistically perfect road (even if it's a main road, it's not like they had mechanical pavers in medieval times, lol), then the little patches where there is nothing but green, then the random tree groups. Just spacing the forested area out more would fix both the green spam and the forest tile groups.

Anyway, I checked out both videos, not really sure what to think. The whole rape/sex slavery implication in the prologue is a big turn off, it's one of the most alarming signs of weak writing. That type of thing just cannot be thrown in randomly, and it almost never has the effect on people that you want it to when you do that. They just end up a little angry that you even went there. It's not something you can just toss out there whenever you want to make a scene darker or more dramatic. Other than that, most of what can be said about the writing already has been. A lot of the things I'd be critical of could exist because you haven't created chapters far enough yet to fill in some glaring blanks. I understand that stories don't have to be spoon fed to the reader, and I'd hope that you intend for a lot more things to come to light in time. Of course, a fair amount of people are going to be upset if the story is not spoon fed to them ("this doesn't make sense, how come it was not explained immediately?!?!?!"), so choose which audience you want to pander to and stick with it :P.

I agree with the rape thing. Like I said, haven't watched the prologue yet, but Tangerine is pretty much right. Unless you can really pull it off, it doesn't work.

Regarding things being explained later in the story, remember this: It's okay to puzzle your readers, but not to confuse them. So if you bring something up, make damn sure you answer it.

Edited by bottlegnomes
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Okay, it's in the prologue. Haven't watched that yet. I was thinking it was in chapter one, which seemed weird since I didn't notice it in there. Like Ano said, "Time to slit/cut some throats" would work well.

EDIT: Just read your last post. In that case, something like "Time to pierce some throats" should work.

Umh, no, it really is in chapter 1! When the other two units (Rya and Cristoph) appear, check it out. ;P

Minute 8:10 of the first video.

Anyway it could work, but I'm still not convinced about it.

Send me the script and I'll go over it, not just grammar, whole plot, when I get time. Watching videos is tedious and makes it more difficult. For now, it's very awkward. You're narrating through dialogue way too much, your story is in danger of becoming melodramatic, and there are some things that don't make sense, like the knights not recognizing the princess of their kingdom. It'd be one thing if they weren't soldiers at the palace, but at some far off place.

I don't fully get what you are saying with "You're narrating through dialogue way too much".

As for grammar, I've already asked The Iron Rose to get over it, but I'll be glad if you can let me notice some things in the plot which may seem a bit off. You know, a writer has clear ideas about its work, but it's not really easy to pass that 'idea' to the readers as well, exspecially if it's a complicated one. Also, I don't doubt your grammar editing skills (it's the opposite, I think you really are good at this, truly) but I also have faith in The Iron Rose's work, please understand me.

As for the chapter itself, I haven't played it, but from the looks of it, the only reason you won was some luck dodges. You might want to balance it more. Try having Fa and co. start farther away from the enemies, like at the other end of the map.

I'll balance it more, but it's not all about luck.

Fistly, you can reach the other side of the river in the two turns before enemy units appear. I just decided to wait for them in a near spot, that's all.

Secondly, you can let Helios go out of range from the dracoknights, so that they'll attack Fa (who most probably will survive if you place her in a castle/mountain tile); or you can let Helios in range so that they'll attack him since he's disarmed (like I did) but that way the enemies won't be weakened by Fa's counterattacks and will be harder to get rid of them.

Also, it's important to neutralize the units with iron lances first, since they have like 20% more hit rate than the ones with a javelin (and also deal more damage).

More importantly, I'll add two houses so that the player will have to visit them while escaping from the soldiers, or ignore them and fight. Whatever, I'll do it more various.

I agree with the rape thing. Like I said, haven't watched the prologue yet, but Tangerine is pretty much right. Unless you can really pull it off, it doesn't work.

Regarding things being explained later in the story, remember this: It's okay to puzzle your readers, but not to confuse them. So if you bring something up, make damn sure you answer it.

I don't get the 'rape thing', honestly. ^^" What do you intend?

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