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Is Awakening trying too hard to appeal to Smash Bros fans?


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Krom has never given me an Ike feel. He's always kind of felt unique. (Though, I suppose I might have difficulty detecting 'expies'.)

As for Micaiah, it would be interesting to include her in SSB, as I'm somewhat of a fan of her, but in general, 'female spellcaster' might be a little overdone. Lyn would be more unique, but is significantly less well-known (which would be an obvious problem for a mascot fighter game).

There aren't any female spellcasters ^^', Zelda has no tomes.

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Then maybe they could do Soren or Merric. Soren would be more likely, but Merric created the Wind specializing Mage so....then again, considering his popularity, Canas would be very well received ^J^. Also I agree, I've never felt of Krom as being an Ike expy. He seems more expressive. I also like him better, but that's just me.

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But that doesn't help with the English side is what he's saying. Japanese is fully elaborated, but the English side doesn't tell you about the game. While you can set an English copy of SSBM to Japanese, it still doesn't tell you anything while it's in English, which doesn't help people who are getting into the series. And most people don't tend to read Japanese (though the titles may be in English, not sure on that, but even so it's not something many people are liable to check, and all it'd tell you is the title).

And I don't know, magic female is really exclusive to Zelda (unless I'm missing something). Peach lacks any magic moves, and really Zelda is the only pure mage (Lucas/Ness are technically psychic (though they count I suppose), and Lucario is really more like a martial artists with energy projection, which is a common thing. I can't think of any people who may count otherwise). I think Micaiah would definitely stand out from the crowd as a whole a lot more, since she'd really only be competing with Zelda (at least currently).

Soren seems plausible, the rest I don't see likely (though not sure who Merric is off the top of my head, think he's from FE4 or FE5). And as much as I like Canas (second favorite FE7 guy at least), he's got zero chances just about, unless they really push the creative moveset bit. Though I'd like seeing Canas, or any mage just about, I like most of them personality-wise.

Edited by Mirron
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Seriously confused here.

Young kids bought Super Smash Bros. Melee en masse. People unlocked Marth and Roy. Marth and Roy are both from some weird game called "Fire Emblem." The trophy descriptions- for those who actually bothered to read and reflect upon those descriptions, i.e. less than 10% of the kids playing the game- are unclear as to whether or not the characters are related. As a result, people mistakenly believe they're from the same game. So when a GBA title called "Fire Emblem" is about to be released in the states, questions get raised about whether or not the Melee duo will be in the game.

Like, is this really so hard to grasp? What the hell is going on

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I don't like wind mages ^^' I prefer Fire/Light/Dark/Thunder. I want to see Ewan ;W; he's so kawaii.

Soren and Merric can use other types, Soren just specializes in Wind. Ewan'd be awesome, but I'd prefer Canas, or even Pelleas. If they brought a light Mage, I'd prefer L'Arachel or Rhys...Michaiah bums me out. Or even Yuria (Narga would make a great Ultimate Smash).

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Soren and Merric can use other types, Soren just specializes in Wind. Ewan'd be awesome, but I'd prefer Canas, or even Pelleas. If they brought a light Mage, I'd prefer L'Arachel or Rhys...Michaiah bums me out. Or even Yuria (Narga would make a great Ultimate Smash).

I dislike Soren because he's mean to Lincy. Canas would be gr8 ^^' Dark magic is great. Miccy is my favorite light mage but I like all of them except Renault, my favorites are Rhys, Miccy, and Laura. Lords are so boring I want a Pegasus Knight, a mage, a laguz, an archer, and a Wyvern for smash o3o.

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Seriously confused here.

Young kids bought Super Smash Bros. Melee en masse. People unlocked Marth and Roy. Marth and Roy are both from some weird game called "Fire Emblem." The trophy descriptions- for those who actually bothered to read and reflect upon those descriptions, i.e. less than 10% of the kids playing the game- are unclear as to whether or not the characters are related. As a result, people mistakenly believe they're from the same game. So when a GBA title called "Fire Emblem" is about to be released in the states, questions get raised about whether or not the Melee duo will be in the game.

Like, is this really so hard to grasp? What the hell is going on

I'm trying to prove here that there were indeed signs that the two were in different games of the same series in their SSBM trophy bios. Sadly, not many people would look at those signs, like you say. But they were there. I happened to notice those signs when I was experimenting around with the language options. So even if I was a typical SSB fan trying to get in the FE series at this point, you'd never catch me asking "Are Marth and Roy in this game?".

I will note, however, that I did wonder if either Eliwood was Roy's son or not instead of the other way around at one time.

Edited by Little Al
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Yuria or Pelleas I wouldn't mind seeing. Never played the game Yuria is from, but I have a feeling I'd wind up liking her (not sure why exactly). I really liked Pelleas though. Albeit, Soren-wise, I can't see him not using exclusively wind magic. It feels like Soren's thing, wind is really his focus.

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Yuria or Pelleas I wouldn't mind seeing. Never played the game Yuria is from, but I have a feeling I'd wind up liking her (not sure why exactly). I really liked Pelleas though. Albeit, Soren-wise, I can't see him not using exclusively wind magic. It feels like Soren's thing, wind is really his focus.

Yuria is pretty she reminds me of Miccy ^^'. Oh I wish Pelleas had more availability poor him ;A;.

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Yuria or Pelleas I wouldn't mind seeing. Never played the game Yuria is from, but I have a feeling I'd wind up liking her (not sure why exactly). I really liked Pelleas though. Albeit, Soren-wise, I can't see him not using exclusively wind magic. It feels like Soren's thing, wind is really his focus.

Mind you, some "wind" spells have ice graphics (Fimbulvetr and Rexcaliber, but assuming Soren did get in, Rex would be his Ultimate Smash as its the best wind tome).
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Could be something original. Or could be based off of Flare (Ike's is based on Aether (though I personally doubt it'd be anything except Rexcalibur, is a possible option I suppose)). And I know wind has ice, just saying it'd likely be more wind animations. Not like that's a bad thing. I imagine they'd wind up being fairly original attacks, since we've seen some fire and thunder stuff before (and ice), but wind is pretty much limited to a small number of things. Yuria and Pelleas could definitely be interesting, but I imagine Sigurd would be first. Which wouldn't be bad, he'd likely be mounted which could provide interesting gameplay mechanics potentially. Or at least interesting animations.

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I'm trying to prove here that there were indeed signs that the two were in different games of the same series in their SSBM trophy bios. Sadly, not many people would look at those signs, like you say. But they were there. I happened to notice those signs when I was experimenting around with the language options. So even if I was a typical SSB fan trying to get in the FE series at this point, you'd never catch me asking "Are Marth and Roy in this game?".

I will note, however, that I did wonder if either Eliwood was Roy's son or not instead of the other way around at one time.

That's fair, but I feel you may be giving the average 13-15 year old Melee gamer a bit too much credit. I doubt they'd think to themselves, "Hm, let me make sure that I've perused these trophy bios before asking this question about Fire Emblem."

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There aren't any female spellcasters ^^', Zelda has no tomes.

I can't tell if your response was made in jest or not, though if it wasn't, then there would be much to be said about word-twisting. >_>

Admittedly, SSB doesn't have a very large number of female characters who explicitly fight with magic. A lot of this has much to do with the fact that it has only three (and a half) female characters to begin with, from its roster of thirty-five. Out of these, two of them are primarily ranged fighters, with alternate modes that are a mix of ranged and melee.

Fire Emblem games, unfortunately, have had a tendency to avoid female lead characters. The ones most known to western audiences (Lyn, Eirika, and Micaiah) each were forced to yield the spotlight to male protagonists (respectively, Eliwood, Ephraim, and Ike), which somewhat limits their ability to be well-known to fans of the game. Of course, of these, Micaiah is the most likely candidate, owing in no small part to how she actually factored into the overall plot of her game unlike the other two*.

(* While FF8 did in fact have an option that allows one to play entirely as Eirika, it could easily be argued that her portion of the story is much less relevant, while Ephraim's is more consistently related to the game's story.)

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That's fair, but I feel you may be giving the average 13-15 year old Melee gamer a bit too much credit. I doubt they'd think to themselves, "Hm, let me make sure that I've perused these trophy bios before asking this question about Fire Emblem."

Good point. Giving 13-15 year old gamers too much credit wasn't my intention though, but good point.
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Wow this thing blew up while I was busy doing other things.

Anyway, because of Spoiler from 13 I'm going to put all of my little speech about who could and couldn't be included in SSB4 in a spoiler box (And the full spoiler in its own spoiler box):

Alright, first and foremost the only characters I can see getting into a Smash game are Lords and Plot Important Non-Lords. Which seriously narrows the pool down. Lords we have 15 all told, and Plot importants we have Shiida, Sothe, Lilina, Liz, My Unit, etc. Who are either right hands to a Lord, siblings, or Love interests (or a combination). But even with the added non-lords we're still mostly limited to Sword units with very few non-swords to pick from. If you add in the popularity contest aspect it becomes harder to pick outside the box then. Plus there's the need for more lady characters, because the game needs to show more females not being damsels.

Naturally the top picks are either iconic, Unique, in previous Smash titles, or new:

Marth, Ike, Roy, Lyndis cover previous games.

My Unit (FE12 or FE13 version), Krom, Masked, Liz cover recent.

Those were pretty easy to list off. Unique however is where the question comes up, see the issue with Eliwood, Roy, Sigurd, Celise, Ike, Eirika, Marth, Krom and Masked all being in the game is there are only so many ways to diversify Sword fighting characters from one another. Especially with other Sword users like Pit and Link(s) out there.

Sure, a lot of them have second weapons, but so far we haven't had that distinction of letting Fire Emblem units draw other weapons in combat. We also have the Magic side of the dynamic to look at.

Roy could be retooled into the game, but I would rather not. Not outta any dislike for Roy, but I feel a better pick for the series would be a non-sword or non-sword exclusive character. Lilina is possible, but not really without Roy. She does cover a side of Fire Emblem not covered in the game.

Lyndis has Sword + Bow (not very unique given Links), but she has the Swordmaster's style of swift swords which could probably be made to work as a separate move style from Marth (swift chainable strikes) and Ike (slow devastating strikes) as a unique swift endlag strikes style. She can also be buffed out with swordmaster tricks like Astra being added to her movepool. Hector and Eliwood suffer from being too close to Ike and Roy (and Marth) respectively to really be worth going into too much detail. Axe itself suffers from working far too much like a sword in video games as it is.

Ephraim (or Shiida) could be used as a pure Lance style. Shiida less likely as a non-lord, but she is Marth's girl so I won't count her out. Eirika is in the idealistic swift and weak Lord style shared with Eliwood/Marth and also exclusively swords so I say no dice. Also trying to add a mount into the game would be laughably bad.

Elincia is all Swords (but with healing magic), not sure how well that would fly in a fighter to have a healer focused character. Final Smash with a Pegasus would be neat, but... naw, don't see it. But the 9-10 round gives us a lot of other lords. Sothe is too... secondary, but he's possible. Michaiah or Sanaki the Apostle is a pick for magic user class, which gives us a magic user in the roster AND a girl. Any of the Laguz kings could be done, not a new girl but a new style of combat. We have Ike, Ike's movepool could be switched up to include Post-Promote Axe usage, which could make for an entertaining change (but I doubt that'll happen, he'll stay the good ol' fights for his friends Ike we know and love/hate).

11-12 brings us back to Marth's world, but gives us the option of a My Unit design. Give the My Unit a dozen or so odd weapons covering the spread, different costumes for different base designs and base classes, and let them go nuts and be like Leaf. I don't think it likely, but they could go that route. Outside of Marth and MU we can also look at Tiki, Gotoh, and Shiida as plot important enough, but none scream best idea ever so I kinda say Marth will be on his own.

[spoiler=FE13]Here we get to Krom and his kid. Both characters carry the same Great Lord Weapon set of Sword + Lance. Both have Aether, and both could make quality characters in SSB4. I lean more toward Masked Marth/Lucena because we need more ladies, her being a lady clearly defines her away from being "Like Ike" or "Like Marth," and her movepool could have a move from both previous fighters (Aether and Dancing Blade would be my picks) and a bunch of new things too. By having some of her moves use the reach of a Lance, but her core moves still being all sword. Plus I want her to do that reverse midair flip Aether in SSB, that'd be sexy. (Which, yes, by the way, was why I wanted Masked Marth separate from Marth Marth.)

We also have the option of FE13 My Unit. Sword and Magic mix, customizable looks due to the options from FE13. Would play well into the two platform SSB4 design and be extra customizable. Not my top choice, but it does give us a magic user in SSB4. So Zelda won't be lonely.

Might notice I skipped FE2-5. Never played them, have no idea where to start on those. Save givin Leaf ALL THE WEAPONS. Personal bias is I want Mia from 9 in, but I know that won't happen. But I can dream, more grounded dreams are Masked Marth on the table for this.

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Time to chime in with my thoughts on this:

First off, I don't think this game is specifically catering to the SSB crowd. If anything, it's an attempt to get the series better sales in general while giving us fans something to go crazy over (DLC of past characters). Sure, you can certainly spin it that way if you want, but I just...don't see it.

For the roster of the next Smash, the way I see it Marth is in no matter what. After that, it get's a bit tricky.

According to the research I did, Roy was included in Melee to help boost sales for Fuuin no Tsurugi around the time of it's release. Sakurai was pressed for time and needed a quick way to add some characters and Roy was a good fit for borrowing Marth's animations. That said, having looked into Brawl's data, it looks like he was planned at one point or another, but that didn't pan out for whatever reason. Now we have Smash 4, and a plethora of Roy hacks to place him into Brawl. I have no doubt that Nintendo is keeping track of these, so it at least bares mention. When I take into account his recent DLC revamp, Roy isn't so ancient anymore and I feel, provided Fire Emblem get's more than 3 spots, Roy's inclusion is a safe bet for one of them.

Next up, Ike. Main character of 2 games in the series. If Fire Emblem get's more than two spots, Ike is most certainly taking one of them. His unique move-set helps him out with continuing to be playable as well as popularity with the fan-base. Smash and Emblem fans are fond of Ike in general, so I'd that boosts his chances.

Due to spoilers, I'm going to follow the above example and put my Krom take in spoilers.

Onto uncharted territory, Krom. If Sakurai goes the route to include the most recent Lord (which he sort of didn't with Brawl considering Micaiah at the time), then Krom is the one it's going to be. I wouldn't be surprised if Krom were included so he could interact with Marth.

FE13 Plot spoilers

With Masked Marth being his daughter, I can see a sort of comical moment when Krom realizes his daughter really does resemble Marth

If we go with the series getting only 2 spots, Krom can go ahead and borrow a few of Ike's moves considering he also has the Aether skill. That would satisfy people who enjoyed Ike's play-style while still bringing a new face to the Brawl. If we get more than 2 spots, then the third one is going to be a fight between Roy and Krom. Ike and Marth are all but safe.

Masked Marth spoilers

It'd be nice to get Lucina if only to get another female character into the game. An amalgam of Ike and Marth's fighting styles, she'd fit nicely as a third FE character. The thing is, she doesn't cause a game-over if she dies, meaning her importance isn't quite up there with the likes of Krom and MU. Still, I'd like to see her if only to have another female character in the game. Also, because I like what I've seen of her.

That's my two cents on the matter. Would I like to see more FE in Smash? You bet I would. Is it going to happen? ...Not likely.

As a final thought, what if Anna became a playable character? She's appeared throughout the series even more than Marth after-all.

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Just a thought here, but how much of a chance do FE villains have to show up in an SSB game?

Tricky... if they were I would have called it in Brawl with Black Knight. Most FE villains aren't human enough to really... 'fit' the way Smash Bros handles things. There is no long standing villain role in FE that could be given a spot. Not like Bowser (every game), Dedede (every game), Ganondorf (every game), who are instrumental in their own verses.

Same reason I'd never put a call for a Pkmn villain, there's no uniform answer. K. Rool and Ridley are probably the best choices for villain spots right now, possibly a KI/U villain due to how new the title is.

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Eh, I can think of a few villains (or potential villains) I could see working out well. I'd love to see Lyon, but that isn't going to happen at all. I think it'd make for a good conflicted villain kind of deal if they included him. Plus then we'd have a magic wielder. If it was SSBB I could see it happening, but as things are now I can't see SS getting a rep. Maybe someone from Awakening could fulfill the role of villain. Or perhaps someone from FE4, it is rather popular, and they have some human villains with magic, so you'd get that aspect again. Only issue would be it'd be heavy in the fire department most likely, but could still work. Black Knight would be nice, and I wouldn't mind him as a Tellius rep, but I'd still prefer Micaiah, and I'd really like to avoid giving any one continent two reps. Though guess that's a likely outcome with Marth and Awakening, but that's all the more reason to avoid doing it with any other continent.

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When the first trailer was released, I wondered if Krom was Ike's descendant, because of Aether and similar movements/being a mercenary. Once I got some details on him, I realized he's not an Ike expy aside the small group leader part. They are very different. I doubt how much the character designer was told about before his guess was confirmed, but he got all of the series' archetypes down, so someone else's input must have been involved. He probably just designed the basic looks/personality, and others took care of the rest, and that's why there are odes to previous characters everywhere.

As a final thought, what if Anna became a playable character? She's appeared throughout the series even more than Marth after-all.

I agree with your post. I think all these features were added to appeal to old Fire Emblem fans and make new ones out of those interested in seeing them. I think the way Nintendo has been hyping and advertising this game was excellent in drawing in that quarter of a million sales in one week. Took aside your mention of Anna because I was just about to talk about her. I think if any non-main female character is to appear in the new SSB game it is her as the most-likely. She's the most recurring character, a female among the many males, brings in a different style of moveset, appears in the latest game (to help promote), and has some fan appeal/recognition. Tiki, Ephraim and Elincia would also be good choices to bring something new to the game, but are unlikely at this point. Still hoping for Micaiah, she and Lyn have a chance among female lords, specially if SSB4 gets to have lots of characters per game series.

Those characters aside, it is almost assured that we will see either (or both) Krom and/or Masked Marth, because as Roy and Ike before them, they will be around to help promote the new game they are in.

I don't think FE villains have much of a chance unfortunately. BK might be around on the equivalent to Subspace Emissary mode, or Fauder/Medeus/other dragon boss.

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Time to chime in with my thoughts on this:

First off, I don't think this game is specifically catering to the SSB crowd. If anything, it's an attempt to get the series better sales in general while giving us fans something to go crazy over (DLC of past characters). Sure, you can certainly spin it that way if you want, but I just...don't see it.

For the roster of the next Smash, the way I see it Marth is in no matter what. After that, it get's a bit tricky.

According to the research I did, Roy was included in Melee to help boost sales for Fuuin no Tsurugi around the time of it's release. Sakurai was pressed for time and needed a quick way to add some characters and Roy was a good fit for borrowing Marth's animations. That said, having looked into Brawl's data, it looks like he was planned at one point or another, but that didn't pan out for whatever reason. Now we have Smash 4, and a plethora of Roy hacks to place him into Brawl. I have no doubt that Nintendo is keeping track of these, so it at least bares mention. When I take into account his recent DLC revamp, Roy isn't so ancient anymore and I feel, provided Fire Emblem get's more than 3 spots, Roy's inclusion is a safe bet for one of them.

Next up, Ike. Main character of 2 games in the series. If Fire Emblem get's more than two spots, Ike is most certainly taking one of them. His unique move-set helps him out with continuing to be playable as well as popularity with the fan-base. Smash and Emblem fans are fond of Ike in general, so I'd that boosts his chances.

Due to spoilers, I'm going to follow the above example and put my Krom take in spoilers.

Onto uncharted territory, Krom. If Sakurai goes the route to include the most recent Lord (which he sort of didn't with Brawl considering Micaiah at the time), then Krom is the one it's going to be. I wouldn't be surprised if Krom were included so he could interact with Marth.

FE13 Plot spoilers

With Masked Marth being his daughter, I can see a sort of comical moment when Krom realizes his daughter really does resemble Marth

If we go with the series getting only 2 spots, Krom can go ahead and borrow a few of Ike's moves considering he also has the Aether skill. That would satisfy people who enjoyed Ike's play-style while still bringing a new face to the Brawl. If we get more than 2 spots, then the third one is going to be a fight between Roy and Krom. Ike and Marth are all but safe.

Masked Marth spoilers

It'd be nice to get Lucina if only to get another female character into the game. An amalgam of Ike and Marth's fighting styles, she'd fit nicely as a third FE character. The thing is, she doesn't cause a game-over if she dies, meaning her importance isn't quite up there with the likes of Krom and MU. Still, I'd like to see her if only to have another female character in the game. Also, because I like what I've seen of her.

That's my two cents on the matter. Would I like to see more FE in Smash? You bet I would. Is it going to happen? ...Not likely.

As a final thought, what if Anna became a playable character? She's appeared throughout the series even more than Marth after-all.

Honestly, this all sums it up really well. There's not enough games out to say that there is a trend of dropping one character in favor of another.. we only have had one game which did that, and even then, the hidden character data suggests that it wasn't their intention.

I think, especially with DLC, we have a pretty damn good chance of seeing Marth, Ike, Krom and Roy. Marth, Ike and Krom will likely be chosen, with Roy on the back burner...

(But yeah, if we see these guys, they'd BETTER have their new, kick-ass designs. That shit is badass. >: D)

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