Why does everyone hate the reclass system so much?

[edgelordweeb]

I see a lot of people saying they hate the reclass system, but I never see them saying exactly why. I personally really like the reclass system, and I feel that it can make the game feel fresh each time you play it if you reclass some of your units. One of my favorite things to do is to reclass Jake into a General since he's an absolute beast as a general and I make my unit a fighter a lot since the avatar is one of the best candidates for the fighter class and I really like the warrior class in this game. I also kind of like reclassing Doga into a hunter, since he gets super high speed and pretty good strength to go with it, along with great skill.

[Tryhard]

I feel as though units should have predetermined roles they should stick to. It doesn't make much sense that old age Wrys can suddenly become a cavalier after years of non-combatant healing work. Or that any unit can change completely what they look like or their supposed joining skill set.

Any benefit from it is because certain characters are stronger in other classes. But I don't really care about stats, I would prefer if units just had set classes. I don't mind it being included, but I rarely use reclass.

[eclipse]

I can see why people would dislike it - cobble a bunch of units with the same class together, with a few variations for certain things, and go.

However, I think it's funny. The combined male class set is a huge boon, though I'm miffed that women missed out on several classes.

[Loki Laufeyson]

I think its because of how willy nilly it seemed to be executed. Anyone can be basically anything and this can make or break a character. The newer games had more of a limit in reclassing and refined it. Shadow Dragon's reclassing was just too unpolished.

[eclipse]

I think its because of how willy nilly it seemed to be executed. Anyone can be basically anything and this can make or break a character. The newer games had more of a limit in reclassing and refined it. Shadow Dragon's reclassing was just too unpolished.

. . .but you're in the FE12 subforum. While the core of reclassing stayed the same through Shadow Dragon, there were some significant additions.

[Kirie]

For me it's purely option paralysis. There are too many classes available and faced with so many options, I'm more likely to just ignore it not reclass anyone.

[Parrhesia]

I liked it at first but idk, I didn't like how it was just kind of a free-for-all. I'd also quietly like to say that I said I'd like to see individually-tailored personal sets of three classes before Awakening (which I'm pretty sure did exactly that) came out

... But idk if I ever actually said that on this forum so you'll just have to take my word for it on account of man there's way better things I could brag about if I was lying.

edit

quietly like to say that I said I'd like to see

s m h i've had four hours sleep

Edited May 4, 2016 by Parrhesia

[Magical Glace]

I think the issue is it takes away from unit individuality, especially since FE11/12 were lacking in the character department a lot of the time. Often, a character's class and death quote were all they had, in FE11 especially, making everyone feel more generic.

[Augestein]

Honestly? I can't say. I actually like reclass.

[MCProductions]

I only ever used it in Awakening tbh, and in FE12 I was mostly indifferent to it because I never really felt incentive to do so beyond the insanity of Levin Swordmaster Wrys

[Cornguy]

Personally I dislike changing a character's stats and growths. It removes their individuality and spoils some of the fun in comparing stats between multiple playthroughs. I would like it a lot more if it only changed max-stats, animations and weapon-levels.

Sadly I carry this complaint into Awakening and Fates. There's a reason I've replayed 4 and 6-9(10 excluded due to almost everyone hitting caps, 5 for low caps+scrolls) so many times. I may be alone in this, but I love being able to compare a character between multiple playthroughs.

[DancingDanny]

I didn't hate it per se, but it was a little weird at times. It can also really screw up a character if you don't know what you're doing, so experimentation doesn't work so well. :(

[X-Naut]

I don't hate it per se, and I think some degree of class control can be healthy for the series. But the DS system is too cookie-cutter and while I don't mind free unpromoted reclassing, free promoted reclassing is broken.

[Loki Laufeyson]

. . .but you're in the FE12 subforum. While the core of reclassing stayed the same through Shadow Dragon, there were some significant additions.

Like what? From what i could see, it seemed identical.

[Gradivus.]

FE12 has combined class sets for male units, it's unlocked after beating H1 or higher

Not so much of a change to the mechanic, but balance between weapon types/classes is also better in FE12 so there are more reasons to use different classes. In FE11, while there still is merit to most options, it's relatively biased towards Paladins (to an extent), Dracoes and Heroes, which led to criticism from some people.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Gradivus.

[avengerfive]

In FE11 it's "everyone to DracoKnight!" I personally really like it as well, because I don't care about class diversity. I'll take a 10 move army any day.

It's a lot better in FE12 because a lot more classes are optimal. But many people haven't played it.

[Loki Laufeyson]

FE12 has combined class sets for male units, it's unlocked after beating H1 or higher

Not so much of a change to the mechanic, but balance between weapon types/classes is also better in FE12 so there are more reasons to use different classes. In FE11, while there still is merit to most options, it's relatively biased towards Paladins (to an extent), Dracoes and Heroes, which led to criticism from some people.

i see. Thanks.

[Redwall]

I like free reclassing in FE12 since it lets otherwise bad units perform useful roles. It's not broken at all since it does not by itself trivialize the game.

[Illiterate Scholar]

I like reclassing because you can be silly with it. That and the stats are properly adjusted to suit every class. I thought that was well done instead of the same growths for every class.

[Lady Sansa]

Because every unit should be unique.

[Redwall]

H3 and H4 preserve unit individuality when played at a brisk pace since the strong enemies clearly expose who is or isn't a good unit. Even good units like Palla will get doubled by the end of the game if she doesn't reclass.

[Baldrick]

All the good units are good for the same reasons. Not many units bring anything special to the table.

[Redwall]

All the good units are good for the same reasons. Not many units bring anything special to the table.

Have you played H3 or H4? Here's a non-exhaustive list of important asymmetries between superficially similar characters:

• Catria's superior Spd growth lets her promote with the Elysian Whip to ORKO enemies that not even Palla can ORKO with an Elysian Whip of her own. You notice this as early as Chapter 15, where you want to ORKO the Sniper (who has 22 Spd) near the throne area. Catria's lategame performance is much better than Palla's.
• Compared to Mallesia, whom many use as their Gharnef-killer of choice, Linde's practically exclusive earlygame access to Aura lets her provide useful combat by 2HKOing Dracoknights easily, baiting and tanking a hit during an enemy phase (Seraph Robe) or chipping safely from 2 range without burning through forged bow shots. Linde's higher Spd growth lets her reliably Nosferatank Chapter 15's Paladins and ORKO strong enemies from 1-2 range with the Levin Sword after reclassing to a Swordmaster. Not even lategame Catria can do this kind of 1-2 ranged damage.
• Ryan's superior bow rank over another good Horseman candidate, Draug, makes the former a much more appealing option to take out Hardin using the Parthia. Ryan can OHKO earlygame Dracoknights using only a Steel Bow forge; Draug needs a more expensive Iron Bow forge to do the same. Ryan takes hits more easily than Draug, who faces non-trivial chances of death due not only to his poor Luck making him face nonzero crit chances, but also because of his poor defensive stats. On the flipside, Draug can ORKO enemies in Chapter 1 as a Pirate with the Rainbow Potion, and you need never worry about his Spd growth the way you worry about Ryan's.

The differences between characters that you can gloss over in lower difficulty settings and slower-paced runs become sufficiently decisive in higher difficulty settings that not even a powerful mechanic like reclassing can erase them.

[Baldrick]

I did play H3. When I needed a fast unit, I used a swordmaster. When I needed a tanky unit, I used a general. When I needed a dragon-killer, I used a sniper. The class bases tend to eclipse the personal bases of the best units, so apart from magic users nobody stood out in any one class. If you play efficiency, good for you, but not everyone plays that way.

EDIT: I don't know if by "brisk play" you meant efficiency, but even in that context, units all fill the same role, with slightly different stat spreads.

There may be more variety in roles, but most good units can fill any role.

Compare to a game like FE6, where Thany, Rutger, Alance and Miledy all have their niches due to lack of reclassing.

Edited May 6, 2016 by Tricky Drick

[Redwall]

The class bases tend to eclipse the personal bases of the best units, so apart from magic users nobody stood out in any one class.

I provided multiple counterexamples to this in my previous post.

If you play efficiency, good for you, but not everyone plays that way.

My main arguments are that a) free reclassing is fun and b) an efficient context in the higher difficulty settings is capable of exposing differences among reclassed units; I haven't claimed that anyone has to play this way, or that they have to reclass at all. And just as everyone is free to play their own way, with as little or as much reclassing as they please, I am free to dispute claims of broken-ness and whatnot in a discussion of game mechanics.

EDIT: I don't know if by "brisk play" you meant efficiency, but even in that context, units all fill the same role, with slightly different stat spreads.

There may be more variety in roles, but most good units can fill any role.

Compare to a game like FE6, where Thany, Rutger, Alance and Miledy all have their niches due to lack of reclassing.

The differences in stats and WEXP can be enough to slow you down and/or compromise reliability; you can imagine far more examples of this than what I wrote previously. With apologies to Judge Judy, I have never said that it rains in FE12, only that the game pees on your leg a lot.