Kamui's mental state...

[Kamui-of-Nohr]

I just recognize something that would be really disturbing. You guys recall the man in the trailer being turned into pincushion by Garon right? A thought occurred to me.

Since in this game, some/most cutscenes are in first person view (I guess not all scenes aren't in first person view) This must mean that Kamui, as a child saw their (Presumably) father die violently right before their eyes. Another worst thing is that they were kidnapped by Garon right away after the tragic event unfolded. It seems like Kamui didn't try to fight back.

My question here is that, do you guys think Kamui is traumatized by this incident? To me, Kamui seems to have a serious personality while knowing to smile at times. How did Kamui managed to grow up in Nohr during those years without any incident including Garon?

Edited May 29, 2015 by Kamui-of-Nohr

[Leif]

We don't know what context that scene takes place in. It could be a 'dramatic reveal' of sorts towards the middle part of the story? It wouldn't make sense if Kamui knew what Garon supposedly did to that man (who I assume is Kamui's relative of sorts) and continue to serve him.

[goodperson707]

I am not sure what is confirmed, but what is with this apparent 360 in public opinion on how old Kaimui was when he/she was "adopted" just a couple months ago it seemed that public opinion was on kaimui being a baby/toddler, now it seems that it is now he/she was "adopted" later in life. I know that Takumi being younger than kaimui raises his age, but i think he could still be 3 or 2ish

Or is there something i am missing.

Edited May 29, 2015 by goodperson707

[Philranger]

Since in this game, cutscenes are in first person view.

When was that confirmed? Because you definitely see a cutscene where you can see Kamui which would be impossible if you were in a first person view.

[warriorlucina]

I'm wondering about this too. Perhaps something happened that made Kamui forget their memory? They might have either gotten knocked out, which resulted in memory damage, or something worse: mental trauma. It's possible that Kamui forced themself to forget what happened in order to cope? This is all just speculation, of course.

[Kamui-of-Nohr]

I am not sure what is confirmed, but what is with this apparent 360 in public opinion on how old Kaimui was when he/she was "adopted" just a couple months ago it seemed that public opinion was on kaimui being a baby/toddler, now it seems that it is now he/she was "adopted" later in life. I know that Takumi being younger than kaimui raises his age, but i think he could still be 3 or 2ish

Or is there something i am missing.

Now that I think about it... If The man who was killed is Kamui's father, then Takumi and Sakura would've have to be born by then. So perhaps Kamui was taken in when he was 8 or something.

We don't know what context that scene takes place in. It could be a 'dramatic reveal' of sorts towards the middle part of the story? It wouldn't make sense if Kamui knew what Garon supposedly did to that man (who I assume is Kamui's relative of sorts) and continue to serve him.

True. But what if Kamui was dreaming of that scene like in the prologue of the story? Hence why Felicia is yelling at her to wake up.

[RandomSwordmaster]

More than likely Kamui was still a child back then, and doesn't recall the event at all. Not all cutscenes are in first person. This one is likely in the third.

[Leif]

When was that confirmed? Because you definitely see a cutscene where you can see Kamui which would be impossible if you were in a first person view.

True, so perhaps it wasn't from Kamui's perspective at all? It could be used as a flashback to reveal what Garon did to that man? It can go either way.

True. But what if Kamui was dreaming of that scene like in the prologue of the story? Hence why Felicia is yelling at her to wake up.

That could also be true. Chrono Cross has a similar introduction to its story, so it could work. If it were dream-like though, it would make sense for the cutscene to be all distorted and etherial to add a level of mystery. Wouldn't want to spoil a major plot point at the beginning no?

Edited May 29, 2015 by Leif

[Kamui-of-Nohr]

True, so perhaps it wasn't from Kamui's perspective at all? It could be used as a flashback to reveal what Garon did to that man? It can go either way.

That could also be true. Chrono Cross has a similar introduction to its story, so it could work. If it were dream-like though, it would make sense for the cutscene to be all distorted and etherial to add a level of mystery. Wouldn't want to spoil a major plot point at the beginning no?

Well, Awakening spoiled something pretty major(Hint: Chrom related) in the prologue...

[Leif]

Well, Awakening spoiled something pretty major(Hint: Chrom related) in the prologue...

We didn't understand why Chrom was stabbed. The same exact thing happened in Chrono Cross's prologue; Kid was stabbed by the protagonist and we had no idea why. That's part of the mystery.

So, if that scene with Garon and the masked trueblade is used at the beginning of the game, it would have to be vague and out of context to get the audience curious.

For now, we don't know where the cutscene will take place in the story. It's hard to understand Kamui's 'mental state' now, since he/she seems pretty happy talking to his Nohrian and Hoshidian companions in those Famitsu screenshots. Although, I would love to see the hero suffer a defeat at some point in the story, compromising his/her sanity.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Leif

[goodperson707]

Now that I think about it... If The man who was killed is Kamui's father, then Takumi and Sakura would've have to be born by then. So perhaps Kamui was taken in when he was 8 or something.

True. But what if Kamui was dreaming of that scene like in the prologue of the story? Hence why Felicia is yelling at her to wake up.

8? why is everyone so sure of him being 8 or close to that, Kaimui could conceivably be less than 2 if sakura was conceived but not born yet. Why is everyone so sure that the younger Hoshidio kids were not born close together, looks are hardly a good judge in this type of design. They could be born nearly consecutively for all we know.

[Philranger]

8? why is everyone so sure of him being 8 or close to that, Kaimui could conceivably be less than 2 if sakura was conceived but not born yet. Why is everyone so sure that the younger Hoshidio kids were not born close together, looks are hardly a good judge in this type of design. They could be born nearly consecutively for all we know.

For real. 9 months is all you need. It's possible that Kamui is less than 2 years older than Sakura.

[HK Motendra]

At young ages, children do have a response to repress traumatic experiences. With that in mind, one could say that Kamui does remember the incident. Just.... not yet

[falcoknights]

yeah, i'm assuming that takumi is, at most, 2 years older- i want to say about a year and a half, however, mainly due to the fact that it does allow for sakura to be "in the oven" better, so to speak. either way, that would make kamui like, maybe barely 3.

i only remember like, tiny tiny snippets from around that age, so it's entirely possible that that's the case for kamui, assuming that is their father. it could easily be a general or w/e (which i doubt, considering his sword, but w/e).

either way, assuming kamui is 8 or so seems ridiculous.

[Mysterique Sign]

8? why is everyone so sure of him being 8 or close to that, Kaimui could conceivably be less than 2 if sakura was conceived but not born yet. Why is everyone so sure that the younger Hoshidio kids were not born close together, looks are hardly a good judge in this type of design. They could be born nearly consecutively for all we know.

Honestly Takumi looks older than Kamui so they'd likely be close in age

Plus the trailer refers to the as your "Forgotten Hoshidan kin", so yeah, Kamui was probably pretty young

Edited May 29, 2015 by Mysterique Sign

[egobarrier]

8? why is everyone so sure of him being 8 or close to that, Kaimui could conceivably be less than 2 if sakura was conceived but not born yet. Why is everyone so sure that the younger Hoshidio kids were not born close together, looks are hardly a good judge in this type of design. They could be born nearly consecutively for all we know.

I can't speak for any others, but in my case it's a matter of storytelling.

Sure, it's possible Kamui was an infant/toddler when it went down. But what good would that do for the story? The whole point of Nohr vs Hoshido is being caught between 2 families at war. If Kamui was never even old enough to have memories of his Hoshido siblings it shouldn't be up for debate; no matter how those first 6 chapters go I have trouble believing they could realistically convince Kamui that a few people s/he shares DNA with are more important than the family s/he's been raised with since infancy. It goes the other way too; Ryouma and maybe Hinoka could possibly remember Kamui, but why should Takumi or Sakura care?

Whereas if Kamui was in the 5-8 range things are just more interesting. Memories of training with Marx are countered with memories of learning from Ryouma, Elise and Sakura both looked up to Big Brother/Sister Kamui, etc. It's better narratively if Kamui has actual memories of Hoshido (even if they're suppressed until actual being reunited or something), and being kidnapped as a toddler doesn't accomodate that. It certainly could have happened that way, but it's wasted potential if it did.

[goodperson707]

^ i do get that story telling angle, but my original point is that a couple of months ago everyone seemed to assume that he was a toddler, also everything about the premise seems to me to not make as much sense if he knew his previous family and the memory being repressed is as much as i hate to say it a bit cliche and a bit of a cop out. If he was older why is he still there and appreciative of his adoptive family, the entire main premise is blood vs the people who raised you, and having loving memories of being raised by both of them is taking away one of The main story reason for Kaimui choosing nohr in the first place.

[ViewtifulBo]

I feel like Kamui won't remember anything at all unless they pull some Radiant Dawn magical flashback scene ala Ike "remembering" Greil slaying Elena. Nope I feel like Kamui will be just like Leaf in that regard, remembering nothing because he was too young when it happened.

Who knows though, I could be dead wrong. After all this IS just pure speculation at this point. Either way, looking forward to seeing the plot unfold...

Edited May 29, 2015 by ViewtifulBo

[egobarrier]

^ i do get that story telling angle, but my original point is that a couple of months ago everyone seemed to assume that he was a toddler, also everything about the premise seems to me to not make as much sense if he knew his previous family and the memory being repressed is as much as i hate to say it a bit cliche and a bit of a cop out. If he was older why is he still there and appreciative of his adoptive family, the entire main premise is blood vs the people who raised you, and having loving memories of being raised by both of them is taking away one of The main story reason for Kaimui choosing nohr in the first place.

Well, as for why people originally favored the toddler theory I don't know, but it might have had something to do with Vincent's speculation being part of his write-ups and analyses and influencing readers (e.g. Garon's description reads "...later grabs out to the camera–perhaps the moment in which he takes in the infant Avatar."). I don't see how it changes the premise though, especially if Kamui is satisfied in Nohr and has no desire to leave. I agree that surpressed memories would be cliche, but I was just pointing out that as a possibility; Kamui could also remember Hoshido from the start. As for it taking away from Nohr, yes, that's my point. "Blood" really shouldn't be enough to pick Hoshido, so something needs to balance that out or Kamui should logically pick Nohr by default, though we may have to agree to disagree there.

[Ryo]

"Blood" really shouldn't be enough to pick Hoshido, so something needs to balance that out or Kamui should logically pick Nohr by default, though we may have to agree to disagree there.

Even if they have their reasons, Nohr is still invading another country regardless, which I think is enough of a logical reason to oppose to them. The fact that the victims are your blood family and relatives only add to it.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Ryo

[egobarrier]

Even if they have their reasons, Nohr is still invading another country regardless, which I think is enough of a logical reason to oppose to them. The fact that the victims are your blood family and relatives only add to it.

Perhaps, if Kamui has a strong justice streak. But I think it's worth noting that picking Nohr is still (seemingly) Kamui acting against Garon there. It's just from within, rather than putting his/her life on the line to defend the Hoshido royalty and potentially strike down his/her adoptive siblings in the process, which is quite the leap no matter how sympathetic Hoshido's plight is.

Though now I want Harold in the Hoshido path so they can be justice buddies. Missed opportunity IS.

[Ryo]

Perhaps, if Kamui has a strong justice streak. But I think it's worth noting that picking Nohr is still (seemingly) Kamui acting against Garon there. It's just from within, rather than putting his/her life on the line to defend the Hoshido royalty and potentially strike down his/her adoptive siblings in the process, which is quite the leap no matter how sympathetic Hoshido's plight is.

Though now I want Harold in the Hoshido path so they can be justice buddies. Missed opportunity IS.

But the thing is, is revolutionizing Nohr from within really Kamui's plan for rejoining Nohr from the beginning? I personally don't think he can think that far, nor can he be certain that he'll be able to convince his siblings to oppose Garon. I would imagine that at the point when he makes the choice, the only thing that would directly flow in his mind is that they're his adopted family, and he needs to support them instead of standing against them. It's more likely that after coming back to Nohr, Kamui would gradually realize that their way of doing things is problematic and then try to change it.

[B.Leu]

'Who gives a shit about the world ? Everyone just need to die'. They want justice ? Easy, Dragonbreath on everything. It's super effective. :p

Nah but seriously, Kamui probably just forgot about it, but will remember at one point for some reason. The death of his dad shown in the trailer is a cutscene from his POV after all.

Or maybe he never forgot about it.

Edited May 29, 2015 by B.Leu

[Pretty_Handsome]

Kamui isn't the only victim.

Ryouma and Hinoka remember everything too and unlike Kamui, whose memory seems fuzzy apparently as he/she was young, they've been trying for years to reunite. I'm sure the many years of failure and fighting a war against the invading Nohr has taken a huge mental toll on them as well, especially Hinoka who seems to have given up her life as a Princess and dedicated herself to becoming a warrior for Kamui's sake.

[Honey Bunny]

I'm surprised that people are just now realizing this. I actually had a theory a while ago based on this exact thing.

People seem to be simplifying opinions that can be had on family. If Kamui remembers being kidnapped by Garon there is a high chance that they hate him. Really though none of Garon's children seem that fond of him. Marx appears to follow him out of a sense of duty more than anything else, Elise seems to really want Garon to forgive her for something, Leon doesn't look like he cares for much of anyone, and Camilla seems to love Kamui before anyone else. It's likely that amongst Garon's brood not liking Garon is normal. Plus not liking Garon doesn't stop Kamui from loving their siblings. Kamui did spend most of their time around the Nohr bunch, I don't find the idea of Kamui having affection for their siblings to be farfetched. Personally I don't see Kamui siding with Nohr because of Garon, I see Kamui siding with Nohr because of his siblings. That seems like enough reason to be torn to me.