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Improving the Genealogy Translation Patch


irtikliwT
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I support calling them dragons by the way, but I wanted to point out the thing about the Manaketes being the "gods".

Right, well thank you for pointing me to the designer notes. It was my ignorance that lead to me not knowing they were the same. I mean I figured they were 'Ascended' From those tribes, not just from those tribes.

Then again Akaneia's manaketes have always been absurdly powerful

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Well, I was just asking if he'd considered the possibility. I don't think there's really a perfect solution; it's just the one I prefer.

don't go making excuses now

be a man and stand by your words

Right, well thank you for pointing me to the designer notes. It was my ignorance that lead to me not knowing they were the same. I mean I figured they were 'Ascended' From those tribes, not just from those tribes.

Then again Akaneia's manaketes have always been absurdly powerful

I was rereading parts of FE6's script to look into that thing about dragon mounts being dragons that had lost their powers or something, and noticed Jahn's lines about how most of the Manakete that show up in FE6, at least, are far weaker than the true Manakete. I don't know how much that holds for say Archanea's Manakete, but it may help explain things.

Edited by Othin
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don't go making excuses now

be a man and stand by your words

I was rereading parts of FE6's script to look into that thing about dragon mounts being dragons that had lost their powers or something, and noticed Jahn's lines about how most of the Manakete that show up in FE6, at least, are far weaker than the true Manakete. I don't know how much that holds for say Archanea's Manakete, but it may help explain things.

Well depends on whether you consider the whole 'FE World' theory to be true or not. It certainly doesn't help Yahn that he's a puss, and Idoun is even worse And I still don't know why the Elibe map calls it the 'Dark Continent' that bugs me relentlessly for some reason because they never explain it and it sounds like it should be a major plot point!

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Holy crap is this really Willfor

It is! I've been around as a lurking guest more lately because I was too lazy to sign into my account just to read FE13 info. I figured I might as well wade into this discussion with the single anecdote I have for this patch.

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Well, we know Archanea, Valencia, and Jugdral are connected, and that's half the continents in the series. Elibe also appears to connect to Archanea through the Dragon's Gate. As of FE12, Magvel doesn't seem to have an established connection, but it apparently plays by all the same rules. So I think it's fair to interpret factors as consistent between those games.

The only oddball is Tellius, which seems to be a substantially different time period from the rest anyway, if it's connected. I'm ignoring all information from FE13 for now because we don't have a complete understanding of any of the mechanics yet, but maybe we'll get some more answers then.

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I have a problem with Aoife because it's a female name, I know two Aoifes and they're both female. A manly dude with a moustache doesn't look like an eefa to me.

Edited by CR-S01
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In addition to "Barhara -> Valhalla" and "Jugdral -> Yggdrassil," all the names in Northern Thracia are hopelessly fucked up. Assuming they're using the English versions of the Irish province names, they pretty much are supposed to be...

  • Lenster -> Leinster
  • Alster -> Ulster
  • Conote -> Connacht
  • Manster -> Munster
  • Mease -> Meath (or Mide)

This isn't even debatable. They were clearly intended to be the Irish provinces (in English), but the translators' spelling (in English) is wrong. There are probably other town names that are wrong but I'm not going to go out on a limb over things like Madino or whatever when there's no consistent theme, but in the case of the Northern Thracia castles there's seriously no room to wiggle here.

I can kind of make peace with the other stuff, weird as Serlis and Aoife are. Okay, I kind of can't make peace with those. But good call on the skill names. I'd also kind of prefer Hero to Ranger and Forrest Knight becoming Ranger instead, but I can see the arguments to the contrary so whatevs, I'll let qualified people duke it out on that.

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As I brought up in the other thread: even if they're supposed to represent the Irish provinces, that doesn't mean they're supposed to match them perfectly.

Forrest Knight --> Ranger is official. I don't think there's any room for debate on that, when it was the exact translation used in FE8 for the similar class with the same Japanese name. The confusing one is the foot Forrest class, since it never showed up in FE7-11 for us to have an official reference point. We could go with Hero for the similarities, or we could go with something else, like Forester, which seems to convey a meaning closer to the original while making more sense to most players.

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One thing we should keep in mind is that even in official translations, IS typically will change obvious mythological/geographical references into more easily pronounceable/recognizable translations. I'm thinking here of Macedon -> Medon, Moses -> Morzas (this was probably done because lol, a boss named Moses), Chinon -> Shinon, and the previously mentioned Armace -> Armads.

At the same time they'll sometimes go with ridiculous references just to fuck with us (Gwyllgi, Creiddylad, etc).

My point is that just because something is a mythological reference doesn't mean that we have to exactly spring for that spelling. If we were to switch all these names to their proper Norse/Gaelic spellings, we would have a game that is impossible to pronounce.

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As I brought up in the other thread: even if they're supposed to represent the Irish provinces, that doesn't mean they're supposed to match them perfectly.

There's a difference between "is slightly different" and "is just fucking wrong." This is one of them.

Sorry, it just bugs the shit out of me. It's like translating New York as New Yoak.

Forrest Knight --> Ranger is official. I don't think there's any room for debate on that, when it was the exact translation used in FE8 for the similar class with the same Japanese name. The confusing one is the foot Forrest class, since it never showed up in FE7-11 for us to have an official reference point. We could go with Hero for the similarities, or we could go with something else, like Forester, which seems to convey a meaning closer to the original while making more sense to most players.

What is the Forrest class called in Japanese in FE4 and what is the promoted class Othin/Halvan/Machua have in FE5? Are they the same? The one in FE4 doesn't have Axes, but I'm curious if it's basically supposed to be the same thing or not. If so, "Hero" would be more appropriate for consistency's sake.

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In addition to "Barhara -> Valhalla" and "Jugdral -> Yggdrassil," all the names in Northern Thracia are hopelessly fucked up. Assuming they're using the English versions of the Irish province names, they pretty much are supposed to be...

  • Lenster -> Leinster
  • Alster -> Ulster
  • Conote -> Connacht
  • Manster -> Munster
  • Mease -> Meath (or Mide)

This isn't even debatable. They were clearly intended to be the Irish provinces (in English), but the translators' spelling (in English) is wrong. There are probably other town names that are wrong but I'm not going to go out on a limb over things like Madino or whatever when there's no consistent theme, but in the case of the Northern Thracia castles there's seriously no room to wiggle here.

fe5_00000.pngfe5_00001.pngfe5_00002.png

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What is the Forrest class called in Japanese in FE4 and what is the promoted class Othin/Halvan/Machua have in FE5? Are they the same? The one in FE4 doesn't have Axes, but I'm curious if it's basically supposed to be the same thing or not. If so, "Hero" would be more appropriate for consistency's sake.

FE4: フォーレスト - fohresuto (forest)

FE5: マーシナリー - mahshinarii (mercenary)

The FE5 class is typically referred to as Hero, as it should be.

On this note, I raise the question of three other classes: Swordfighter, Axefighter, and Bowfighter. These seem to correspond to classes that American FE games translate as Myrmidon/Mercenary, Fighter, and Hunter. I don't know how the patch currently translates those classes, but those are the translations I would suggest.

Edited by Othin
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Why don't you download the patch and notice it actually isn't really a work in progress?

I've never really cared to bother with those newfangled emulators or patches.

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TRS has a similar English intro which calls the main villain a "Dark Load" rather than a "Dark Lord."

Then it isn't similar, because FE5's has no mangled English.

I've never really cared to bother with those newfangled emulators or patches.

In that case, just what are you doing in this thread?

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In that case, just what are you doing in this thread?

I'm just that generous.

Edited by Othin
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TRS has a similar English intro which calls the main villain a "Dark Load" rather than a "Dark Lord."

Well hang on a second, who's to say he isn't!?

EDIT: Also it's still stupid and wrong.

Edited by Renall
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EDIT: Also it's still stupid and wrong.

how do you know that the names were intended to be an exact translation of their respective references from mythology

and seriously, they're names - it's not a big deal if it's slightly off, and i'm willing to bet that >95% of all players don't give a shit about whether lenster or leinster is politically correct

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how do you know that the names were intended to be an exact translation of their respective references from mythology

How do you know they weren't? Obviously we could do this forever. My point is they're stupid. You don't have to agree with me. The guy doing the patch doesn't have to agree with me. Nothing actually has to ever be done.

But it's still stupid.

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How do you know they weren't?

Tordo is the thunder god in FE4/5, an obvious reference to Thor. Indeed, the ultimate spell used by descendants of Tordo is Thor Hammer: トールハンマー - tohruhanmah. This spell used the katakana "トール", "tohru", to refer directly to Thor. However, Tordo is referred to differently, as "トード", "tohdo". It can be no mistake: while Tordo is meant as a reference to Thor, it is not meant to be Thor - and it would be incorrect to translate it to Thor.

This lends good evidence that other such references were similarly adjusted slightly.

Edited by Othin
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In addition to "Barhara -> Valhalla" and "Jugdral -> Yggdrassil," all the names in Northern Thracia are hopelessly fucked up. Assuming they're using the English versions of the Irish province names, they pretty much are supposed to be...

This isn't even debatable. They were clearly intended to be the Irish provinces (in English), but the translators' spelling (in English) is wrong. There are probably other town names that are wrong but I'm not going to go out on a limb over things like Madino or whatever when there's no consistent theme, but in the case of the Northern Thracia castles there's seriously no room to wiggle here.

Why would you assume this? Honestly, I hate when video games just copy-paste names of other locations for their setting. The way FE4 did it made it pretty obvious what it was referencing, but also had its own slight twist on the names and they were translated so that you could actually pronounce them. I can't imagine the game being set in the continent of "Yggdrassil". That just sounds so stupid, and I'm no expert on the mythology, but I don't think it makes any sense.

Tordo is the thunder god in FE4/5, an obvious reference to Thor. Indeed, the ultimate spell used by descendants of Tordo is Thor Hammer: トールハンマー - tohruhanmah. This spell used the katakana "トール", "tohru", to refer directly to Thor. However, Tordo is referred to differently, as "トード", "tohdo". It can be no mistake: while Tordo is meant as a reference to Thor, it is not meant to be Thor - and it would be incorrect to translate it to Thor.

This lends good evidence that other such references were similarly adjusted slightly.

Once again Othin offers a good example to support the point.

Edited by Jediabiwan
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Why would you assume this? Honestly, I hate when video games just copy-paste names of other locations for their setting. The way FE4 did it made it pretty obvious what it was referencing, but also had its own slight twist on the names and they were translated so that you could actually pronounce them. I can't imagine the game being set in the continent of "Yggdrassil". That just sounds so stupid, and I'm no expert on the mythology, but I don't think it makes any sense.

Exactly. These names are clearly meant to be derived from the locations and myths and act as references, but not actually be the originals, explicitly transplanted.

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Exactly. These names are clearly meant to be derived from the locations and myths and act as references, but not actually be the originals, explicitly transplanted.

On the flip side of the argument, though, while there are some points where the Kana clearly deviates from standard Kana of the mythological references (Tordo, Jugdral, Barhara), for Alster, Lenster, Manster, and Conote, the places use the exact same Kana as the Kana used for Leinster, Munster, Ulster, and Connacht.

This complicates the story somewhat.

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