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Fire Emblem 3 remake for the DS


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Their nerfing and buffing thought process is far more illogical than that. It would look a bit more like this.

"You know, Ryan was too good in the original. Let's take 2 points off his speed base."

True that Class Swap didn't save people from being crap, but it did save a few characters, because just imagine it without Class Swap.

You want a real gamebreaker? Look at forging slayer weapons, like the freaking Wing Spear.

Your totally right about IS's logic involving buffing and nerfing. But...

The problem with the wingspear being a gamebreaker is it's in the hands of a unit who is always getting 2RKO'd. In warpskip it's epic but only because it has shiida's speed base + growth backing it up.

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Forging almost any weapon you want was a nice novelty but that's all, really.

Tell that to Shiida, who with a forged Wingspear was a boss slayer of which with all the warp staffs around was a major reason the game could easily be considered "over" from midgame onwards.

Forged Horseslayer meant you could basically OHKO cavs. Same with Wingspear. This is a big deal because the majority of the enemies were cavaliers, paladins or horsemen.

Forged magic in a game with 0Res units is pretty lol.

Forges always royally mess up whatever FE game it shows up in, and it's the worst in FEDS. FE9, forging was a novelty. FEDS, it trivializes a LOT.

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Getting 2RKO'ed doesn't matter when you OHKO on Player Phase without taking a counter, and enemy density is so low that you can apply an Enemy Phase counter on top of that without being put in danger. Also, Caeda does not always get 2RKO'ed. Promotion is huge for her, and so is the Robe.

Fact of the matter is, the ability to forge effective weapons in a game full of units vulnerable to them makes those weapons extremely powerful.

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Or you can simply not forge.

What is wrong with you?

Player choice doesn't really have anything to do with inherent balance. Although this is a silly conversation to begin with, since it's predicated on the idea that IS was trying to "balance" Fire Emblem in the first place, which is hardly an unassailable truth. I mean, my new calculator is exactly as useless for making popcorn as my last one; I'm not going to write a sternly-worded letter to the company complaining about their failure to satisfy my need for a pocket-size microwave that can multiply and divide.

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If they bring back forges for this one, at least make it like RD or PoR. Forging effective weapons when the coefficient is 3 is ridiculous (that should've been possible in PoR instead).

I'm hoping the chapter 2 boss is still able to move or there will be a lack of lulz.

Edited by Speedwagon
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JPN FE10 seemed to have a fairly balanced forging system. Even NA FE10 was kind of unbalanced because you could just load up on as many +5 MT ranged weapon forges as you want, whereas JPN FE10 forced the player to earn forging points.

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Player choice doesn't really have anything to do with inherent balance. Although this is a silly conversation to begin with, since it's predicated on the idea that IS was trying to "balance" Fire Emblem in the first place, which is hardly an unassailable truth. I mean, my new calculator is exactly as useless for making popcorn as my last one; I'm not going to write a sternly-worded letter to the company complaining about their failure to satisfy my need for a pocket-size microwave that can multiply and divide.

I understand that it is not intuitive for balance, but it also isn't likely to go away since it's such a huge help for casual players (and it is also useful for efficient runs).

I get annoyed when people complain about stuff that's very optional and easy to choose not to use.

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Well, the way that SF describes it, the JP forging system wasn't a big deal. By the time that you can forge ranged weapons, you've already gotten access to stuff that you can buy and immediately flip over for easy forging points. Two Steel Daggers get you a forge, that's only a ~20% premium added to a vanilla +5 Hand Axe.

Maybe they'd also need to tune the point system.

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Regardless of player choice, the tier list and general playstyle guidelines that we abide by assume exploiting everything that the game offers. Furthermore, balance is typically defined by the unadulterated state of the game. If we established by player choice, for example, that all Brawl players must play as Diddy Kong, then that would be an extraordinarily balanced metagame, but it doesn't make the game itself any more balanced; the fact that you have to accommodate for a game's balance issues only goes to show that it's even more imbalanced.

Well, the way that SF describes it, the JP forging system wasn't a big deal. By the time that you can forge ranged weapons, you've already gotten access to stuff that you can buy and immediately flip over for easy forging points. Two Steel Daggers get you a forge, that's only a ~20% premium added to a vanilla +5 Hand Axe.

Maybe they'd also need to tune the point system.

Jesus, those things are cheap. I was looking more at the price of Steel Blades and Steel Greatlances... But even if the point system could be revised for improved effectiveness, it was certainly a step in the right direction.

Edited by dondon151
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Wait, was it announced that this is coming to NA?

Seeing as FESD was selling well and doing better numbers in Japan and Europe than previous FEs, why shouldn't it?

Regardless of player choice, the tier list and general playstyle guidelines that we abide by assume exploiting everything that the game offers. Furthermore, balance is typically defined by the unadulterated state of the game. If we established by player choice, for example, that all Brawl players must play as Diddy Kong, then that would be an extraordinarily balanced metagame, but it doesn't make the game itself any more balanced; the fact that you have to accommodate for a game's balance issues only goes to show that it's even more imbalanced.

I'd say that FE3 Player sees forging as the FE equivalent of turning items on/off, but feel free to correct me. :x

Edited by Ike-Mike
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I think we should start a new topic if you guys are just going to discuss issues of balance in Shadow Dragon. That's nothing to do with the sequel really, aside from "I wonder if they'll change forging". And they might and they might not.

I'm with Illyana on this. I find it weird when people complain about forging and Arenas ruining the balance of games due to abuse... you do realise you don't actually have to abuse it at all, right?

Fire Emblem games aren't about balance. In many games you CAN abuse things to essentially make things very easy. But this only occurs if you want to spend hours abusing random numbers, abusing Arenas, abusing the forging system. You could just play normally and stop complaining and get a lot more enjoyment.

Anyway, back to the actual new game.

You know I'm kidding right?

I think I was the first person to mention Roy in the topic... I wasn't replying to you or anyone with that comment.

About the new character being a tactician... I don't see that being likely, given that the character seems to have a sword and fights alongside Marth. Unless all that occurs during event scenes outside of the actual chapters, which would sorta ruin the point of making a big deal about this Hero of Shadow anyway.

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I recall in part 3 that with the JP's forging points system, the silver card pretty much destroyed that idea. You bought items, sold them for the exact gold back, and got points back. You could abuse that to no end.

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Regardless of player choice, the tier list and general playstyle guidelines that we abide by assume exploiting everything that the game offers. Furthermore, balance is typically defined by the unadulterated state of the game. If we established by player choice, for example, that all Brawl players must play as Diddy Kong, then that would be an extraordinarily balanced metagame, but it doesn't make the game itself any more balanced; the fact that you have to accommodate for a game's balance issues only goes to show that it's even more imbalanced.

Like I said, forging is not likely to go away, so the game will not be balanced because of this, but if a game is going to have imbalanced I prefer broken stuff to be as optional as possible if I want to play for challenge.
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I think we should start a new topic if you guys are just going to discuss issues of balance in Shadow Dragon. That's nothing to do with the sequel really, aside from "I wonder if they'll change forging". And they might and they might not.

Not much else to talk about, except conjecture about other unknown things.

I recall in part 3 that with the JP's forging points system, the silver card pretty much destroyed that idea. You bought items, sold them for the exact gold back, and got points back. You could abuse that to no end.

I thought that the base conversation for the Silver Card specifically mentioned that you wouldn't earn any forging points for that chapter. It does, at least, say that in my NA version.

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I've once dreamt up a situation that if there'd have been a FE for the Gameboy alongside Gameboy Wars the story would involve an evil/negative Marth as the villain for some reason.

Now I'm getting a negative Marth vibe from the Hero of Shadow. :P

Edited by Ike-Mike
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About the new character being a tactician... I don't see that being likely, given that the character seems to have a sword and fights alongside Marth. Unless all that occurs during event scenes outside of the actual chapters, which would sorta ruin the point of making a big deal about this Hero of Shadow anyway.

I'd lol if it turned out to be a Tactician who could fight. I remember Kaga mentioning how the player wouldn't be the main character, but it seems possible that IS is going to completely overthrow his idea in a remake of the game that he made.

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I'd lol if it turned out to be a Tactician who could fight. I remember Kaga mentioning how the player wouldn't be the main character, but it seems possible that IS is going to completely overthrow his idea in a remake of the game that he made.

Ha, a fighting tactician would be interesting. But how about this, what if it's a custom character? A character who's essentially mute like Matthew from Blazing Sword but takes part in the battles and story representing the player, and you design how he (or she?) looks, much like how you can name Matthew whatever you want and change his affinity.

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I am happy to hear this! I only just wonder what they're going to do about the obscure classes like Barbarians, this game's version of Berserkers, and the other enemy only class that copies another class.

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I am happy to hear this! I only just wonder what they're going to do about the obscure classes like Barbarians, this game's version of Berserkers, and the other enemy only class that copies another class.

My guess is that Barbarians will be converted into Warriors/Berserkers. The old Berserker class will probably be made into a Hero or Swordmaster, since that's basically what it was.

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I am happy to hear this! I only just wonder what they're going to do about the obscure classes like Barbarians, this game's version of Berserkers, and the other enemy only class that copies another class.

Which reminds me. There are plenty of axe using enemies in this game. Something to keep in mind.

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