Fixing Fates story issues (spoilers)

[Yari]

So a lot of people seem to have issues with Fates story like Nohr's story is in need of a rewrite, Hoshido's is too black and white, some characters needed more development and it goes on... As a writter I got it inside my head the story could be changed and made better with ideas from us fans. For example:

Hoshido/Birthright:Add scenes and dialog here and there with the dark story of the country and a bit of Nohr hate, more exploration of the siblings besides Takumi, change some supports to make characters more cautious of Kamui and make them a bit more ruthless. It might still end up as the lighter shade of grey but it gets better.

Nohr:Almost complete change. Maybe they can try to change the country behind Garon's back while fighting a war no one wants to fight because it will only bring pain and destruction changing and adding scenes and dialog will be done too and changing supports to reflet the story and stuff like that.

Touma/Invisible:Hydra/Anakos needs a rewrite, minimize Aqua's knowlege about the kingdom, Lilith can have an important role on this route since she's a dragon, the Invisible kingdom curse needs to go and the children will have an important role in this part of the story.

In general Kamui needs to have a change in personality and character development, Aqua and Lilith needs a bigger role in the story.

What do you think? Any ideas you want to share that you think would change Fates story for the better?

This is going to be part of a huge fix fic I want to write so thanks to everyone for helping and the only thing I'm sure of is that I want a cynical Femui siding with Hoshido, a idealistic Mamui sidding with Nohr and have both stories happening at the same time because in Nohr you find out certain things about Hoshido that make it greyer and I want Femui to find them out.

Update:

Other changes to be made:how my castle works(some of the stores will be wiped out), no skinship, a lot of supports (I'm looking at you Felicia), the way Kamui's dragon form works, Rinkah's strenght, how the holy weapons work, give the sisters holy weapons, give Aqua a unique weapon too, change the weapons effects because some of them are exagerated, characters like Garon and Shemmei need to be explored more and Mikoto won't be such a purity sue.

Also I thought bout the children only appearing in the story after a timeskip that will iniciate Touma's storyline.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Yari

[NekoKnight]

For Hoshido, I would create some backstory between the relationship between them and Nohr. Let's say that long in the past, the ancestors of the Hoshidan royal family cursed Nohr or otherwise stole the source of their prosperity. While the current Hoshidans are not directly responsible for Nohr's condition, they are largely indifferent to the suffering in Nohr and won't do anything to help them.

For Nohr, I'd do a combination of secretly reforming Nohr/plotting to overthrow Garon leading up to an invasion of Hoshido in order to undo whatever the Hoshidans did to curse Nohr originally. Hoshido might be devastated by the war but the seeds of hope for self-sufficiency and peaceful relations in Nohr will be planted.

For characterization, I would definitely like it more if less people trusted Kamui and that he is not put on such a high pedestal despite being an outsider (Hoshido route only). The individual motives and beliefs of the siblings should be explored in greater detail.

[nocturnal YL]

Perosnally, I don't really find its story too bad. Yeah, it's not the best, and it does feel like a bunch of random moments that can't fit in just 74 chapters (counting all three routes) thrown together. I wouldn't call it bad writing though, especially when compared to Awakening.

In Nohr, they do talk about trying to change the country behind Garon; the siblings were always trying, it's just that Kamui was way too oblivious to that until Leon spelt everything for him. And just by the time Leon could talk some sense into him the second time...[spoiler=Nohr]Kamui found out that now that he's chosen Nohr, he has to defeat Hoshido just to sit Garon on the Hoshidan throne to reveal his true nature.

Silly? Yes. But not any sillier than Micaiah, as I've mentioned many times over.

[B.Leu]

Why not having Kamui doing things ? Like killing Gantz and co g igilantismi-style a la Yuri ? Preferably with no green aesop popped out of nowhere or 'it's not right !!1!' BS.

Because really, this 'change Nohr from the inside' just reeks incompetence and bad writing.

Edited July 20, 2015 by B.Leu

[astrophys]

What a good idea… yes, let's do something that will get us branded as traitors to Nohr while we're still on thin ice, arrested, and executed before we have our opportunity to take down the real problem within Nohr, Garon himself.

[The DanMan]

Would cutting Lilith hurt anything? She's pretty much only there as justification for My Castle. I'd expect to start off with some fat trimming.

From what I've seen and read (chapter summaries and peoples' opinions), the main problem with Nohr is how the revolution doesn't happen until the end. I wouldn't quite say it would need a total change, but seeds of rebellion being planted well in advance (as well as assisting those who oppose Nohr from the inside in some way) and the conquest of Hoshido getting more focus earlier (as the first half the route is "let's try to indirectly kill Kamui!").

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against what you said at all; it sounds very interesting and I look forward to the results. I'm just afraid this fix fic will end up too ambitious for its own good.

[Yari]

Why not having Kamui doing things ? Like killing Gantz and/or his gang, Vigilant/Yuri-style ? Preferably with no green aesop or 'it's not right !!1!' BS.

Because really, this 'change Nohr from the inside' just reeks incompetence and bad writing.

Honestly I want Kamui to kill Ganz with a sword through the heart in a completely ruthless way. A way that no hero ever would.

"Change Nohr from the inside" could be a very good story if done right or be a complete trainwreck and I want it done right.

[Azz]

Changing Garon character.

I really wish that IS gave Garon a character that you would feel bad for killing.Rest of post in spoilers for reasons:

I mean Garon is an utter dick and his children don't really mind saying that he is a dick and are frightened of him.In Touma you felt bad for killing Mikoto, because she was your mother, and the mother figure of the Hoshidan siblings, you felt bad for killing Shenmei, because she was Aqua's mother and I am sure, for a short time, a mother figure to the Nohrian siblings and you also felt bad for killing Sumeragi since you thought he was your father.However with Garon, you can't since he has no good aspects about him.I would have liked that maybe, before he became Hydra's puppet that he really was a nice man who only wanted what was best for his family and country.(Ala Ganondorf from Wind Waker)I would have liked Garon way more but really all he is a Mr McEvil who is by far the worst character in the game only followed by Ganz and Macbeth for their fuckery and how stupid they were.

Aside from Garon, like one has mentioned, less should have trusted Kamui since he was an outsider(Hoshido)and a Hoshidan prince and could therefore be a spy(Nohr).Also Nohr's plot was a massive belly lop from what was promised and could have been way better by actually being what it was advertised as.

[Vineron]

Agreed, I mean we even hear from Elise/Leon's support that Garon had some redeeming qualities before he died and was replaced, or at least cared about the kids, and his kids actually liked him. Third route was a great chance to make us fight the original Garon like we fought all the other dead parents, he could still be dickish but at least he could show a paternal side or something. Instead we get Hydra's puppet who gets gobbled and doesn't really do shit except being evil. Ugh.

[B.Leu]

What a good idea… yes, let's do something that will get us branded as traitors to Nohr while we're still on thin ice, arrested, and executed before we have our opportunity to take down the real problem within Nohr, Garon himself.

I said, 'vigilante style a la Yuri Lowell from Tov when no one is looking'. I didn't mean 'charging at Gantz with a sword in front of everyone'. Subtlety people, subtlety.

Honestly I want Kamui to kill Ganz with a sword through the heart in a completely ruthless way. A way that no hero ever would.

"Change Nohr from the inside" could be a very good story if done right or be a complete trainwreck and I want it done right.

Kamui already killed lot of people before y'know. :p

The only difference is that Ganz is a monster, nothing more, no matter how I look at it, the karma metter won't bulge much. I'm not saying it will make Kamui more naive though after, but you see what I mean.

You know, having Ganz killed can be used in many many way, he's kind of a general, who kill people left and right. Rumors of a dude who kill corrupted generals like Ganz... it will change things. A lot, and there's a lof of possibilities.

That would make Garon and co kinda paranoid so, that sounds like a bad things, but he can't really say 'You did it', especially with the sibblings just right there.

That would badass symbolically speaking, Kamui change, and he decide to change Nohr....

Does this sounds like a crappy fanfic ? Tell me, to save my ego.

Edited July 20, 2015 by B.Leu

[Yari]

Kamui already killed lot of people before y'know. :p

The only difference is that Ganz is a monster, nothing more, no matter how I look at it, the karma metter won't bulge much. I'm not saying it will make Kamui more naive though after, but you see what I mean.

You know, having Ganz killed can be used in many many way, he's kind of a general, who kill people left and right. Rumors of a dude who kill corrupted generals like Ganz... it will change things. A lot, and there's a lof of possibilities.

That would make Garon and co kinda paranoid so, that sounds like a bad things, but he can't really say 'You did it', especially with the sibblings just right there.

That would badass symbolically speaking, Kamui change, and he decide to change Nohr....

Does this sounds like a crappy fanfic ? Tell me, to save my ego.

I know Kamui killed before but I want it to be diferent in a way.

That does not sound like a crappy fanfic in fact there are some good ideas there. It could be easily used in a very good fanfic.

[Alazen]

I suggest putting a warning for spoilers in the thread title.

Anyway, Hydra and the rest of the 3rd Path should get a mass rewrite.

The Hydra conflict wasn't really integrated well with the rest of Fates. From the Darth Vader twist (which was blatantly an excuse to let Kamui marry both sets of siblings), to "No talking about Touma", it could have been done differently.

First off, I suggest Hydra's master plan be something with a better sales pitch than Kill All Humans. I would have him be a corruption of Naga. His faction would reject the rule of men over men after, instead advocating that man be held in the guiding hand of god.

To muddy Hoshido, point out that until Sumeragi's campaign to unite the East it was way more cut among warring states. Hoshido's "peace-loving" is built on a big stick, with examples such as Rinka's state still acknowledging Hoshido royal authority. And you can include a couple more of pre-Meiji Japan's issues such as minority oppression, belligerence, etc. You would have the green yet split Hoshido against the rugged yet united (at least in the beginning) Nohr.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Alazen

[Thane]

*Popping knuckles*

I only have time to write about the characters at the moment, but I'll definitely come back to this thread later and discuss the different paths.

Azura needs almost a complete revamp. She's mysterious for the sake of being mysterious, and is there to drop exposition and tell Kamui what to do. The game seems to even forget that she has a backstory, because it's brought up very rarely, and when it is, it's usually very brief and done poorly. A complete conversation with her and Leo in Birthright is essentially:

"Are you my sister, then?"

"No."

"I thought so"

And I'm not exaggerating much at all.

Also, and I've been very vocal about this, the excuse that she "can't tell" anyone about everything she knows about the Invisible Kingdom is the most insultingly bad piece of writing I've experienced in quite a while. Especially since she never actually actively tries to tell Kamui or anyone else what's really going on, so not only is it horribly written, but the curse is supposedly also the only reason why Birthright and Conquest exist at all, which is utter garbage. If Azura hadn't known everything, and instead learned things alongside the player, it would have been much easier to sympathize with her, and she'd have room to grow as a character, as opposed to being a walking plot device.

All the villains need a reason to even be in the game. Hell, I like Validar and Walhart more than the sorry excuses for villains we got in this game. They've got zero personality and backstory, and Garon, who's one of the most important characters in the entire game, is so poorly developed, explained and just not prominent enough to make the player feel anything towards him. Which is a shame, because the first scenes with him are pretty powerful - of course, he quickly becomes a joke afterwards, and his third route involvement - as someone has already pointed out I believe - sums up how the developers handled him perfectly.

Kamui needs a personality. I know a lot of people like self-inserts, but they just gave Kamui a bunch of shonen traits and a bunch of totally radical attack animations and powers and then they called it a day, and that's just not good writing. He's supposed to be the driving force of a character-driven game; he can't be void of personality.

The royal family members should be fewer, and that would've made so many things so much better. It would've been easier for them to interact with each other, and it would be easier to write a tad more complex characters if they didn't have to spread out a bunch of tropes too thin. Takumi and Leo are great though, so there's always that.

Hehey, as a bonus, I found this, and believe it or not, I didn't make it:

Edited July 20, 2015 by Thane

[Azz]

*Popping knuckles*

I only have time to write about the characters at the moment, but I'll definitely come back to this thread later and discuss the different paths.

Azura needs almost a complete revamp. She's mysterious for the sake of being mysterious, and is there to drop exposition and tell Kamui what to do. The game seems to even forget that she has a backstory, because it's brought up very rarely, and when it is, it's usually very brief and done poorly. A complete conversation with her and Leo in Birthright is essentially:

"Are you my sister, then?"

"No."

"I thought so"

And I'm not exaggerating much at all.

Also, and I've been very vocal about this, the excuse that she "can't tell" anyone about everything she knows about the Invisible Kingdom is the most insultingly bad piece of writing I've experienced in quite a while. Especially since she never actually actively tries to tell Kamui or anyone else what's really going on, so not only is it horribly written, but the curse is supposedly also the only reason why Birthright and Conquest exist at all, which is utter garbage. If Azura hadn't known everything, and instead learned things alongside the player, it would have been much easier to sympathize with her, and she'd have room to grow as a character, as opposed to being a walking plot device.

All the villains need a reason to even be in the game. Hell, I like Validar and Walhart more than the sorry excuses for villains we got in this game. They've got zero personality and backstory, and Garon, who's one of the most important characters in the entire game, is so poorly developed, explained and just not prominent enough to make the player feel anything towards him. Which is a shame, because the first scenes with him are pretty powerful - of course, he quickly becomes a joke afterwards, and his third route involvement - as someone has already pointed out I believe - sums up how the developers handled him perfectly.

Kamui needs a personality. I know a lot of people like self-inserts, but they just gave Kamui a bunch of shonen traits and a bunch of totally radical attack animations and powers and then they called it a day, and that's just not good writing. He's supposed to be the driving force of a character-driven game; he can't be void of personality.

The royal family members should be fewer, and that would've made so many things so much better. It would've been easier for them to interact with each other, and it would be easier to write a tad more complex characters if they didn't have to spread out a bunch of tropes too thin. Takumi and Leo are great though, so there's always that. i

Hehey, as a bonus, I found this, and believe it or not, I didn't make it:

OMG that is hilarious XD.

While I like the 3rd path because f its premise, I understand that its writing is utter bolox.

[Taka-kun]

I can't contribute much to the story itself, since well, I have yet to experience. While it's premature for me to condemn it, other people's comments made it quite clear that Fates is less of a war that was first thought (and maybe intended). But I can give some layout of the setting, which I had in my head since the day the interview with the developers. I am a fan of history, so I like drawing parallels with historical events and atmosphere (which I personally believe any good writer should do, but that's my opinion).

NOTE: All the tags underneath has NO spoilers, I just tag it to save post space.

Nohr is a barren country, with rampant order and chaos and the central government lacking power to assert their authority, perhaps due to Garon's neglect, perhaps due to the sheer difficulty of maintaining control in such a huge area, perhaps due to the weather condition making transport and communication troublesome. Likely, it's a combination of all and more.

Hoshido is a bountiful country, with good harvest every year and mild weather conditions. Culture and arts flourishes, as the food surplus leads to pursuit in these areas. The Hoshidan royal family's honorable conduct and diplomacy makes people revere the royaly (well, that and that they are well-fed) and Hoshido is in ordered thanks to well-placed alliances and treatises with surrounding duchies and tribes.

With these two vastly different countries right NEXT to each other, war is inevitable to happen. Nohr invades Hoshido repeatedly over the centuries/decades, and are better at war than the Hoshidans (not hard to picture why), but cannot consolidate their holdings due to cultural difference and the Hoshidan people's loyalty to the Hoshidan royal family. So instead, the Nohrians raid and plunder, pillage and burn, rape and loot. Maybe someone high up in the ranks of Nohr thinks its a bad idea, yeah, but know one thing: Forbid your troops from taking their rewards and they will likely commit mutiny. Moreover, Nohr has few supplies and surplus to go with, and the loot actually makes life in Nohr better (think about Ancient Rome's military policy, they didn't become one of the greatest empires in the world by building roads and aqueducts). Ofc, all this, no matter how pragmatic and logical the actions was, makes the Hoshidans HATE the Nohrians. The Hoshidan royal family, so immersed in having the people's love and loyalty, condemns Nohr and does not open any diplomatic channels at all (like for trade and such). The Nohrians are evil and the Hoshidans are good and no questions are asked (in hindsight, this should also make it hard for Hoshido to negotiate with rebellious Nohrian duchies). Put in some counter-invasions and raids by Hoshido into Nohrian lands and now you have an ongoing cycle of revenge.

I have much more I can explore, but I will leave it as it is and see if people think I am just too dark and realistic.

[Alazen]

The Invisible Kingdom is so sloppy that I wonder if Kibayashi's drafts even had it, or at least handled Hydra the same.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Alazen

[Taka-kun]

Personal request: Could we keep story related things in spoiler tags? There are still some who are relatively unspoilered, yet wanna voice their ideas anyway (like me for example).

[nocturnal YL]

The Invisible Kingdom is so sloppy that I wonder if Kibayashi's drafts even had it, or at least Hydra as the UMBIA.

Well, Kibayashi was asked to write three stories. How much of it has been altered is not known.

I can't contribute much to the story itself, since well, I have yet to experience. While it's premature for me to condemn it, other people's comments made it quite clear that Fates is less of a war that was first thought (and maybe intended). But I can give some layout of the setting, which I had in my head since the day the interview with the developers. I am a fan of history, so I like drawing parallels with historical events and atmosphere (which I personally believe any good writer should do, but that's my opinion).

NOTE: All the tags underneath has NO spoilers, I just tag it to save post space.

Nohr is a barren country, with rampant order and chaos and the central government lacking power to assert their authority, perhaps due to Garon's neglect, perhaps due to the sheer difficulty of maintaining control in such a huge area, perhaps due to the weather condition making transport and communication troublesome. Likely, it's a combination of all and more.

Hoshido is a bountiful country, with good harvest every year and mild weather conditions. Culture and arts flourishes, as the food surplus leads to pursuit in these areas. The Hoshidan royal family's honorable conduct and diplomacy makes people revere the royaly (well, that and that they are well-fed) and Hoshido is in ordered thanks to well-placed alliances and treatises with surrounding duchies and tribes.

With these two vastly different countries right NEXT to each other, war is inevitable to happen. Nohr invades Hoshido repeatedly over the centuries/decades, and are better at war than the Hoshidans (not hard to picture why), but cannot consolidate their holdings due to cultural difference and the Hoshidan people's loyalty to the Hoshidan royal family. So instead, the Nohrians raid and plunder, pillage and burn, rape and loot. Maybe someone high up in the ranks of Nohr thinks its a bad idea, yeah, but know one thing: Forbid your troops from taking their rewards and they will likely commit mutiny. Moreover, Nohr has few supplies and surplus to go with, and the loot actually makes life in Nohr better (think about Ancient Rome's military policy, they didn't become one of the greatest empires in the world by building roads and aqueducts). Ofc, all this, no matter how pragmatic and logical the actions was, makes the Hoshidans HATE the Nohrians. The Hoshidan royal family, so immersed in having the people's love and loyalty, condemns Nohr and does not open any diplomatic channels at all (like for trade and such). The Nohrians are evil and the Hoshidans are good and no questions are asked (in hindsight, this should also make it hard for Hoshido to negotiate with rebellious Nohrian duchies). Put in some counter-invasions and raids by Hoshido into Nohrian lands and now you have an ongoing cycle of revenge.

I have much more I can explore, but I will leave it as it is and see if people think I am just too dark and realistic.

Too dark for me, but I guess it's good for SF...? I do like this premise, but I do wonder if this can be further elaborated to be a story befitting this series. Fire Emblem tales never felt like war stories to me; they tend to focus on individuals instead.

[Taka-kun]

Too dark for me, but I guess it's good for SF...? I do like this premise, but I do wonder if this can be further elaborated to be a story befitting this series. Fire Emblem tales never felt like war stories to me; they tend to focus on individuals instead.

FE4 was pretty gritty, with wars and feuds lasting generations. FE9 and FE10 was pretty "warlike" as well.

[Yari]

FE4 was pretty gritty, with wars and feuds lasting generations. FE9 and FE10 was pretty "warlike" as well.

I was just waiting for someone to bring up FE4. So I want my fanfic to have a similar feel to it a war that lasts two generations. I want the 2gen to show up in a way that fits the story without feeling forced and that is the most dificult part of all of this. This is war so how the hell can I fit a bunch of kids in it?

[NekoKnight]

I was just waiting for someone to bring up FE4. So I want my fanfic to have a similar feel to it a war that lasts two generations. I want the 2gen to show up in a way that fits the story without feeling forced and that is the most dificult part of all of this. This is war so how the hell can I fit a bunch of kids in it?

Naratively speaking (which for the purpose of a fanfic is the primarily concern, I suppose) two generations is an alright premise to work with but I don't think it's very appealing in terms of a game. FE4 might have the best implementation of a 2nd generation but I don't think it would really fit in a modern FE game where you grow attached to characters and don't want to lose them. Besides, isn't the scope of a two generation spanning story kind of unnecessarily large? What exactly does it contribute to the story other than to say that the conflict couldn't be resolved by the first gen?

[Iron Griffin]

So here are my thoughts and advice.

- Dark and Edgy does not always mean a good story: Just because one throws in a bunch of blood, guts, and angst it doesn't mean the narrative wont end up pretentious garbage. I never felt the Fire Emblem were great a being serious war stories. So my idea is a balance don't saturate it with just red food coloring or heaps of sugar.

-One Kamui: In my opinion you should only have a sole main protagonist and make certain he/she is well rounded and believable. I know what your trying to do with two of them but it could over complicate things down the road. If you want to show the view point of the opposite then I suggest have it told from that of one of the major characters on that side like for example should you do that with Nohr have it be Xander since he is closely associated with things both military and political. That is just my suggestion If you still want to go for it best of luck to you but be careful with how you juggle them around especially if you r going for Cync vs Idealism.

Crush the Heart Candies: In my opinion if I was trying my hand at this I would get rid of the romance or at the least cut it down considerably. You have a lot on your plate and I think the fic would only become bloated should you stick in a bunch shipping especially the kind that has no bearing on the story. For example if you want do two Kamuis why not focus solely on their romantic relationships and work to develop them?

Flip the Cradle: If the kids become too much of a pain to find them a place in your story without doing a HUGE time skip then just leave them out you'll save yourself a hell of a headache. I'm leaving them out for my crossover fic because they only create more questions.

Got some more but I'm trying to avoid a wall of text.

[Azz]

I was just waiting for someone to bring up FE4. So I want my fanfic to have a similar feel to it a war that lasts two generations. I want the 2gen to show up in a way that fits the story without feeling forced and that is the most dificult part of all of this. This is war so how the hell can I fit a bunch of kids in it?

If you want Second gen to show up in a non-convoluted way try this:

The children are from alternate dimensions and are the children you would in time to come after the war(And in the case of Sakura, Elise and Tsukuyomi, have grown up).

[RedMage]

I can't contribute much to the story itself, since well, I have yet to experience. While it's premature for me to condemn it, other people's comments made it quite clear that Fates is less of a war that was first thought (and maybe intended). But I can give some layout of the setting, which I had in my head since the day the interview with the developers. I am a fan of history, so I like drawing parallels with historical events and atmosphere (which I personally believe any good writer should do, but that's my opinion).

NOTE: All the tags underneath has NO spoilers, I just tag it to save post space.

Nohr is a barren country, with rampant order and chaos and the central government lacking power to assert their authority, perhaps due to Garon's neglect, perhaps due to the sheer difficulty of maintaining control in such a huge area, perhaps due to the weather condition making transport and communication troublesome. Likely, it's a combination of all and more.

Hoshido is a bountiful country, with good harvest every year and mild weather conditions. Culture and arts flourishes, as the food surplus leads to pursuit in these areas. The Hoshidan royal family's honorable conduct and diplomacy makes people revere the royaly (well, that and that they are well-fed) and Hoshido is in ordered thanks to well-placed alliances and treatises with surrounding duchies and tribes.

With these two vastly different countries right NEXT to each other, war is inevitable to happen. Nohr invades Hoshido repeatedly over the centuries/decades, and are better at war than the Hoshidans (not hard to picture why), but cannot consolidate their holdings due to cultural difference and the Hoshidan people's loyalty to the Hoshidan royal family. So instead, the Nohrians raid and plunder, pillage and burn, rape and loot. Maybe someone high up in the ranks of Nohr thinks its a bad idea, yeah, but know one thing: Forbid your troops from taking their rewards and they will likely commit mutiny. Moreover, Nohr has few supplies and surplus to go with, and the loot actually makes life in Nohr better (think about Ancient Rome's military policy, they didn't become one of the greatest empires in the world by building roads and aqueducts). Ofc, all this, no matter how pragmatic and logical the actions was, makes the Hoshidans HATE the Nohrians. The Hoshidan royal family, so immersed in having the people's love and loyalty, condemns Nohr and does not open any diplomatic channels at all (like for trade and such). The Nohrians are evil and the Hoshidans are good and no questions are asked (in hindsight, this should also make it hard for Hoshido to negotiate with rebellious Nohrian duchies). Put in some counter-invasions and raids by Hoshido into Nohrian lands and now you have an ongoing cycle of revenge.

I have much more I can explore, but I will leave it as it is and see if people think I am just too dark and realistic.

This is dark, but it sounds more interesting than what Fates had, definitely.

Honestly, if Fates had more attention to detail instead of skimming over everything and focus on Kamui so much and skipping to the next thing in the plot, it would have been a much, much better story. It's amazing how like 90 percent of the focus is on Kamui, but Kamui still lacks character development. Just, wow.

One thing I think the story should have focused on was Nohr's weather problem and lack of crop yields. It was briefly mentioned and gets little spotlight. What? I think widespread starvation in a nation should be a much bigger deal, and could be a good reason why the people of Nohr seem to be generally less honorable than Hoshido's because they need to worry about food and survival in everyday life, not just war, but I guess IS prefers to focus on a dragon causing the war instead of starvation and a tyrant being the culprit.

*Popping knuckles*

I only have time to write about the characters at the moment, but I'll definitely come back to this thread later and discuss the different paths.

Azura needs almost a complete revamp. She's mysterious for the sake of being mysterious, and is there to drop exposition and tell Kamui what to do. The game seems to even forget that she has a backstory, because it's brought up very rarely, and when it is, it's usually very brief and done poorly. A complete conversation with her and Leo in Birthright is essentially:

"Are you my sister, then?"

"No."

"I thought so"

And I'm not exaggerating much at all.

Also, and I've been very vocal about this, the excuse that she "can't tell" anyone about everything she knows about the Invisible Kingdom is the most insultingly bad piece of writing I've experienced in quite a while. Especially since she never actually actively tries to tell Kamui or anyone else what's really going on, so not only is it horribly written, but the curse is supposedly also the only reason why Birthright and Conquest exist at all, which is utter garbage. If Azura hadn't known everything, and instead learned things alongside the player, it would have been much easier to sympathize with her, and she'd have room to grow as a character, as opposed to being a walking plot device.

All the villains need a reason to even be in the game. Hell, I like Validar and Walhart more than the sorry excuses for villains we got in this game. They've got zero personality and backstory, and Garon, who's one of the most important characters in the entire game, is so poorly developed, explained and just not prominent enough to make the player feel anything towards him. Which is a shame, because the first scenes with him are pretty powerful - of course, he quickly becomes a joke afterwards, and his third route involvement - as someone has already pointed out I believe - sums up how the developers handled him perfectly.

Kamui needs a personality. I know a lot of people like self-inserts, but they just gave Kamui a bunch of shonen traits and a bunch of totally radical attack animations and powers and then they called it a day, and that's just not good writing. He's supposed to be the driving force of a character-driven game; he can't be void of personality.

The royal family members should be fewer, and that would've made so many things so much better. It would've been easier for them to interact with each other, and it would be easier to write a tad more complex characters if they didn't have to spread out a bunch of tropes too thin. Takumi and Leo are great though, so there's always that.

Hehey, as a bonus, I found this, and believe it or not, I didn't make it:

This is hilarious. My thoughts on the third route, exactly. Why the heck would the siblings join Kamui (who's already seen as a traitor by both btw) when Kamui won't tell them anything? Wish Azura didn't know anything about the Invisible kingdom either. It just seems to make the other two routes even more pointless since Azura joins in both. Like Kamui is someone who believe unbelievable stuff pretty easily, if Azura made a little more effort to tell Kamui in Birthright or Conquest, maybe the plot would have gotten more interesting.

[Zerosabers]

For Hoshido it would be pretty easy to fix, or at least make a little better.

They have a bountiful harvest every year, they're honorable warriors, and they can live comfortably compared to Nohr. So make them act like it, make them self righteous pricks. Not all of them should be complete douches, but most of them should have a holier than thou way of speaking and addressing people not from Hoshido. Have torture captured Nohr soldiers and treat the civilians with no respect.

I haven't seen enough of Nohr, but it sounds like it needs a massive overhaul.

Is there really a curse that does that? That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.