To be quite honest.. I was kind of disappointed in this game...

[Jagen]

Now don't get me wrong! I LOVED this game Might just be my 2nd favorite right behind shadow dragon. Every minute was so thrilling! I actually had so much while playing the game though, that I didn't realize how disappointing part of it was till I got to the very end...

The thing I noticed that was so disappointing to me was that there was no hype in this game at all. Unlike how shadow dragon had Camus the knight of the legendary sable order, Michalis the wryvern riding king of Macedon, The dark Pontifex Garnef, and the Earth dragon that started it all, Medeus. When we hear about them for the first time we know they are going to be very important characters, and the game never lets us down. Hype for them is built up so much throughout the game, that when we finally beat each of them were... "He was probably the toughest person I have ever faced. I will never forget this..."

While in new mystery we first have Katrina who we find out it A traitor in prologue 10. Yah. Not chapter 10. Prologue 10. (yah like that wasn't obvious. She wasn't even in the original game.) After all the gaiden chapters we end up killing her for extra exp. (Or I did anyways...) Then we have Hardin where throughout most of the game we barely know what the fuck he's doing, then there's Is there another...? I guess Garnef and/or Medeus counts but we kill them both maybe 4 or 5 chapters after we even hear that they both are in the game.

What do you guys think? Did this game meet your expectations? Did it downright suck? Or was it just A great game?

I personally think this is one of the best fire emblem games ever. It just... isn't the best I guess.

Edited November 25, 2012 by Jagen

[Blademaster!]

The only complaints I have about this game is the same complaint I has about Book 2: the character endings are all pretty depressing. There's so much unrequited love, broken relationships, and people disappearing forever never to be heard from again.

As for the hype you described, they didn't really add in any new characters to have that work with. They tried to do so with Elerean, Astram, Jeorge, and the Wolf Guard, but it was always during the actual chapter they first show up in. Navarre and Oguma got more hype than all of those guys did honestly. Though FE12 is more about the bonds that people form with each other rather than striking down and toppling powerful enemies like before.

Edited November 25, 2012 by Blademaster!

[Constable Reggie]

The only complaints I have about this game is the same complaint I has about Book 2: the character endings are all pretty depressing. There's so much unrequited love, broken relationships, and people disappearing forever never to be heard from again.

As for the hype you described, they didn't really add in any new characters to have that work with. They tried to do so with Elerean, Astram, Jeorge, and the Wolf Guard, but it was always during the actual chapter they first show up in. Navarre and Oguma got more hype than all of those guys did honestly. Though FE12 is more about the bonds that people form with each other rather than striking down and toppling powerful enemies like before.

I haven't gotten too far in the remake, but I personally thought the sad endings from the original were great. It's not a cliche "everyone lives happily ever after", it emphasizes that the actions throughout the game had consequences.

One thing I thought was a change for the worse (story-wise), was allowing the entire wolfguard to be recruitable. In the original, it showed how even former allies can easily turn against you (of their own will, unlike Hardin) for a greater purpose, whether the purpose be misguided or not, and I thought it was an excellent twist in the typical Fire Emblem story. Unfortunately, that's taken away from the remake.

How great would it be if you had to fight and kill Vaida in Fe6, because she's so extremely devoted to Zelgius?

Edited November 25, 2012 by Davinatorman

[shadowofchaos]

How great would it be if you had to fight and kill Vaida in Fe6, because she's so extremely devoted to Zelgius?

Zephiel

Anyways, my impression of the game thus far is simple. Just putting aside the complaints above about hype and story related stuff, I'll simply state this.

"It fixes everything wrong with Shadow Dragon".

That's my simple impression. For one, you don't have to blood sacrifice at least half your army to get gaidens.

Another is that character development is there besides "Opening Event, battle, ending event".

There is thought invested into characters, and you get to see them grow and get attached. The complete "faithfulness" of Shadow Dragon to its NES original, in my opinion, killed it. There wasn't anything new besides a few polished things to attract them like touch screen capabilities, and a few gaidens (like I said, required blood sacrifices of your army) in order to get interest, but not keep it.

FE12 seems like the result of what they learned NOT to do, and mix in a few new fresh ideas, like "My Unit" which they refined to a glorious concept in FE13.

[Blademaster!]

I haven't gotten too far in the remake

One thing I thought was a change for the worse (story-wise), was allowing the entire wolfguard to be recruitable. In the original, it showed how even former allies can easily turn against you (of their own will, unlike Hardin) for a greater purpose, whether the purpose be misguided or not, and I thought it was an excellent twist in the typical Fire Emblem story. Unfortunately, that's taken away from the remake.

Keep playing. The way they changed it to work out even with the new recruitment additions was pretty well done.

Wolf's ending in particular was great.

[Constable Reggie]

My bad, Zephiel.

I remember the general gist of the Wolfguard's endings, and they are pretty well done (although the recruit conversations seem pretty cheesed in), but I still personally think it would have left a much greater impact if they stayed permanent enemies, but expanded upon their backstories for doing so and adding impactful battle/death quotes, as opposed to generic quotes from Fe3. But the whole idea of fighting (and killing, fuck off RD) previous allies because they're so passionately devoted to something else to the point that they're blinded by it, even though they fought side by side with you in the last game, is really interesting to me. Kind of like Orson, who I thought was really well done, but on a much bigger scale.

Edited November 25, 2012 by Davinatorman

[eclipse]

I liked recruiting them, but that's because I still have a thing for Sedgar.

The backstories are a neat touch, and I honestly didn't see a few of them coming (Tomas, I'm looking at you). Others had hints in Shadow Dragon, but were greatly expanded upon in New Mystery (you can see a glimmer of Caesar's personality in Shadow Dragon, but it's a lot easier to read in New Mystery).

[Guy Starwind]

I've been having a buddy of mine tell me to play it for awhile now. So, I know at least one person who liked it.

[Ike-Mike]

An interesting opinion, and your talk about how Shadow Dragon was building up suspension is what you would be hearing from gamers back when the NES original came out.

. Edited November 26, 2012 by Ike-Mike

[TheEnd]

>This game is worse than SD

That's a felony in some countries, you know

One thing I thought was a change for the worse (story-wise), was allowing the entire wolfguard to be recruitable. In the original, it showed how even former allies can easily turn against you (of their own will, unlike Hardin) for a greater purpose, whether the purpose be misguided or not, and I thought it was an excellent twist in the typical Fire Emblem story. Unfortunately, that's taken away from the remake.

I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, I agree with you; on the other, I have this nagging suspicion that IS did it so you could get some character development from them - since SD gave us nothing.

But ultimately, I'd say the Wolfguard and the bad ending were indeed better executed in the original.

[Polaris]

I had a problem with Michalis randomly coming back to life in this game, provided you know the less than arcane requirements to make that happen. I mean, if he could talk to Maria at least, but lolnope.

[Parrhesia]

One thing I thought was a change for the worse (story-wise), was allowing the entire wolfguard to be recruitable. In the original, it showed how even former allies can easily turn against you (of their own will, unlike Hardin) for a greater purpose, whether the purpose be misguided or not, and I thought it was an excellent twist in the typical Fire Emblem story. Unfortunately, that's taken away from the remake.

Recruiting the Wolfguard? Too much work. They want to lay down their lives for their nation, they can put their money where their mouth is.

(I haven't actually seen the new dialogue, I'm just going off the basic idea of 'Roshea is the only one who starts convinced, Vyland's easily persuaded, Wolf's the most loyal')

[Agro]

I had a problem with Michalis randomly coming back to life in this game, provided you know the less than arcane requirements to make that happen. I mean, if he could talk to Maria at least, but lolnope.

Weirdly enough I love that Maria's dialogue with Minerva doesn't change, regardless of whether Michalis is alive. So you end up with two completely different interpretations of what's going on depending on what you've done. If Michalis died, then Minerva lies to Maria to spare her from the truth, and if he's alive, then she's expressing genuine happiness.

I do agree with the Wolfguard, though. I feel like they could have put in some more characters development by simply giving them more screen time rather than making all of them recruitable. It did annoy me that they were only barely useable, as well. It was like they were playable for the sake of being playable, rather than actually joining for a legitimate reason.

[Dandragon]

my only problem is that i find this game hard, but then again im bad at tactical shit i just divide and conquer or turtle. that and male MU cant start out as myrmidon AGDASFDFGASFADS

in my honest opinion this game has story and therefore is better than shadow dragon. and while there are units that are much better than others, i can safely say the majority of units you get are usable, which is more that can be said in Shadow Dragon.

brb going back to hard mode gonna fucking kill myself

[Constable Reggie]

It was like they were playable for the sake of being playable, rather than actually joining for a legitimate reason.

Pretty much this, considering IS excellently/shoehorningly (is that a word?) added every single Akanaeia character they possibly could into the game, with a good number of them being terrible or unusable (lol those Wolfguard base stats at almost endgame). I mean honestly, did we really want to be able to recruit Michalis, Roger or Wrys?

[TheEnd]

Pretty much this, considering IS excellently/shoehorningly (is that a word?) added every single Akanaeia character they possibly could into the game, with a good number of them being terrible or unusable (lol those Wolfguard base stats at almost endgame). I mean honestly, did we really want to be able to recruit Michalis, Roger or Wrys?

Wrys is an amazing addition to FE12's cast. Luke agreed, don't bother him about it.

[shadykid]

Pretty much this, considering IS excellently/shoehorningly (is that a word?) added every single Akanaeia character they possibly could into the game, with a good number of them being terrible or unusable (lol those Wolfguard base stats at almost endgame). I mean honestly, did we really want to be able to recruit Michalis, Roger or Wrys?

on that note, why do endgame characters as a whole suck so much in this game

[BrightBow]

I'm not really to bothered by the inclusion of every single character for two reasons.

The first one being, that a lot of characters probably simply didn't appear in the original game for hardware limitations. After all, Wrys wasn't in book 1 either. Even though he was quite important in terms of gameplay, being your first healer and all. When you get Lena, she doesn't even have a heal staff.

Now this problems don't exist anymore, so there is no reason not to have him and the others included.

The other being... well from my perspective, this game essentially treats the original Monshu the same way that Kingdom Hearts treats Disney movies.

In the original game Marth was the protagonist. Now it's all about the Mary Sue you created at the beginning of the game. And unlike in FE7, this time it's not even optional. And then she becomes a member of the Royal Guard before even finishing his training. I think Marth even asks him the first time he meets her. And all the other characters instantly become friends with him too. In the "How is everyone" Menu, it's always her who talks with the others. She is even in the remakes title and it's the person the whole opening narration revolves around. It's the whole premise of the game. He is the main character of the remake.

And I think that's fine. It's fun toying around with a classic, just like it is in Kingdom Hearts.

But that also means that I think, that they can do pretty much anything they want with this game. Sure, I think it's bad that the Wolfguard can be recruited. And don't get me even started on Michalis.

But then again I don't think I am supposed to take it seriously in the first place. They can go crazy all the like with this game. It's all just for fun.

Now for the story structure, I think it's fine. Sure, it's not really driven by big villains but more by a mystery about what's actually going on.

I don't think that this is worse. It's just different.

Edited November 25, 2012 by BrightBow

[Momo]

My biggest disappointment is how much the early chapters punish you for wanting to get things.

Haha fuck you, go all the way around the map to get this one fucking village

[Ike-Mike]

So BrightBow, you're saying that this game is essentially a parody of FE3?

Because that is opening many implications about the game itself and about going beyond being rigidly faithful to the original when doing a remake or even a sequel.

[Fruity Insanity]

Well... I think this game is way better than Shadow Dragon.

First of all, you don't have to slaughter you units like cattle to do the gaiden chapters.

Second of all, units have better growths. (Now, I know this doesn't really matter, but... I hate that feeling I get when people get crappy level-ups.)

Thirdly, there's more interaction between units. In Shadow Dragon, you recruit a unit, you let him die, and then you say, "Hey, so what?! I don't care. I needed to go to chapter 6x anyway." In Shin Monshou no Nazo, you read a support conversation, then think, "Oh... So that's how you feel... I don't want you to die..." Also, it let's you get to know the units better. (That's one reason why I can't wait for Awakening to come out in America... There's going to be so many interesting conversations... and better graphics. :P)

Another reason is that it's more challenging. Hard 5 in SD was... underwhelming. The first 5 chapters are slightly difficult, but after that... is an easy cruise.

Lunatic mode in Shin Monshou no Nazo actually requires a bit of thinking... I beat that... and found out that I could do with harder... So I did Lunatic Reverse mode on the Casual setting... I regret that. It made things easier than Lunatic mode. So... I'm doing Lunatic Reverse mode on Classic now... I'm on chapter 20... (And I can't seem to be able to get past those stupid reinforcements... Why do the paladins have to have 25 speed...?!)

Oh, and if I'm not mistaken, wasn't Michalis treated by his sister, Maria? She took him after the War of Shadows... and healed him. And he became good because he resented his previous actions, no? (He said that "if he believed that deities existed, Maria was certainly an angel," right?)

As shadowofchaos said, "It fixes everthing wrong with Shadow Dragon."

Anyway... I played the game 4~5 times... all in Japanese. (And I hardly understood a thing... I only started learning Japanese a year ago...)

So I'm playing it in English now... (Hurray for those people who translated this! They sure do care if they're willing to spend all that time translating and programming... All for the FE fan community...)

Yeah, I didn't want to play the game again... So I just put on some cheat codes... I'm finishing all the chapters in 1~5 turns. XD

Hey, I just want to read the conversations... And they're pretty interesting.

Great game. In my opinion, it's (much) better than FE: SD.

[BrightBow]

So BrightBow, you're saying that this game is essentially a parody of FE3?

Because that is opening many implications about the game itself and about going beyond being rigidly faithful to the original when doing a remake or even a sequel.

That's not what I'm saying at all. I consider it a tribute to the original game rather then an update to it.

If this wasn't my perspective, I would have quite a bit to complain about the fact that Marth is replaced by Chris as the main character.

As it is, I don't spend much time thinking about whether certain changes make the game "unfaithful" to the original or something like that.

And as for Chris, I simply consider him to be the Sora of this game.

Edited November 27, 2012 by BrightBow

[Ike-Mike]

Ah, that explains it nicely.

[Ema Skye]

I really didn't go into this game with high expectations, because I thought Shadow Dragon was absolutely terrible (which might be the reason FE12 was never localized, because I know I'm not the only one that thinks Shadow Dragon sucks).

FE12's story wasn't really that great in my opinion, except for one thing. The Assassins Organization. This group is fantastically well written. You first see them in P8 when Katarina defects, and you're thinking "The heck is wrong with you Katarina?". You don't really get any info on them the next time two times you encounter them.

[spoiler=Involves Gaidens 10x, 13x, 16x and 20x]

Marth's army faces off against Roro and his clones in 10x. Roro himself is somewhat creepy due to his wheehehehehe laugh. Then you beat him, and you watch Eremiah and Katarina converse, which results in Eremiah saying "Throw our the remaining Roro brothers. They're useless now". When I read this, I couldn't help but think "Wow, this is what they live with?". And I couldn't help but feel sorry for them.

In 13x, Kleine meets her end as well. You get more conversation between Katarina and Eremiah about her, which again results in "Throw her out. She's useless. Just let her die". Which really gets you pumped for when you inevitably take down Eremiah, because she's a total jerkface and needs to die. Kleine herself is even aware of this.

16x opens up with a bang when Eremiah calls Katarina a worthless puppet, and that she'll continue to use Katarina as her puppet until she dies.On the battlefield, Katarina is adamant that it's her time to die, telling My Unit to go and kill her. In the last recruitment conversation, MU and Katarina go for a trip down memory lane, through a bunch of events in the Prologue that Katarina insists were all lies. MU points out that they can't be lies because she's crying. Katarina thinks she can't do anything about it because she's commited way too many sins. MU eventually gets her to paint herself blue and join you. There's absolutely nothing else from Eremiah this map, but Marth himself wants to end Eremiah just as much as I did.

The assassin plot ends with 20x, and rather than write out an abridged version, I'm going to post screenshots of it.

and then we kill Eremiah. I can't find her battle quote with Katarina in the event recap, but she has one.

and then there's this ending.

and it ends with a conversation with the dying Eremiah and her master, Gharnef.

Yeah, so Eremiah was just a tool of Gharnef's, and, in my opinion, FE's most tragic villain. I really can't find anyone else in the series who starts off as this much of a heartless jerk, but at the end of your life, you really feel genuinely terrible about slaying them. Her closest competition is probably Alvis.

Outside of the plot, there's quite a few things I enjoy about the game, the first being support conversations. I really can't say anything bad about them, even if I wanted to. They're very well written (Feena and Female MU is my favorite), and you close them feeling "Okay, I don't want you dying now. You're story matters too much for me to let that happen". To me, this game is really 70+ stories mixed together. You learn about everyone's past, present and future goals in the convos them have with MU, and it really makes them feel interesting and gives them personality. FE11 had nothing of this sort. Neither did FE10. The system for getting them is amazing too, with just chapters together on the map like in FE9. I find this system to be much more user friendly than the GBA system of sit beside each other for 50 turns and then we'll talk later. The supports system is why I'm so glad that everyone in FE11 was playable, because we finally have some personalities for them. They aren't generic anymore.

Everyone in FE12 is somewhat usable, which I liked. I was able to use freaking Midia in Ch.20, 21 and 22, and she's not exactly stellar, but she's not half bad for late game filler. Of course, you have amazing units like Palla, Catria, Luke and Sirius given to you so early, but good luck doing the harder difficulties without them.

[Constable Reggie]

I'm up to chapter 12, and it's a shame they didn't majorly fix what I think was Fe3's biggest problem, pretty lame map design. It still feels like some of the chapters are needlessly too large, and really, not enough enemy quantity/spacing. I can tell they touched up some of the map problems (no more stupid "all the enemies on the map are extremely bunched up" crap), but I feel they could have done more to make it much better. For this reason, I personally enjoyed the gaiden chapters the most, even if they are really small and the characters are pitas to recruit.