Conspiracy Mafia - End of Days

[BBM]

I think the contradiction is weird but I don't see it as defensive or reactionary personally. I agree that Euk didn't HAVE to change his vote but eh (kind of have an idea of what he was thinking but would like Euklyd to explain himself)

##Unvote, ##Vote: Proto

basically what kirsche said; why are you deliberately ignoring discussion?

[Kriemhild]

I generally don't like to engage in these kinds of discussions because I believe they are based purely on the way that players generally behave, and not on their alignment. This is not the kind of discussion that would draw out differences in behavior based on alignment. There is literally no information for players to react to.

For example, in this case, there are loads of possible explanations as to why Euklyd changed his vote, but none of them are related to his alignment. All of them are based on the way he thinks and the way he chooses to behave, in a situation where there is literally no information that is available to the public. Therefore, inquiring about why Euklyd changed his vote, or how other players reacted to that change of vote, etc appears to be a completely pointless discussion imo.

[Prims]

Euklyd's reaction just seems like he was called out and responded accordingly. I'm not sure what he'd do differently as town or scum. Don't find people scummy for talking about it though, it's ED1 so grasping happens.

##Vote: Proto

His Refa vote is oddly selective. kirsche was also being serious on Page 1 and was the one pushing the case Proto is disagreeing with, why go for Refa instead? Looks contrived.

[Zkirsche]

@Proto: Just what IS indicative of alignment if not the way someone thinks and the way they choose to behave? Do you believe that scum do not have an ideal playstyle that is different to a member of the town? The frustrating thing is I'm pretty sure you've said this stuff as town so all you're doing is justifying to yourself that not scumhunting is ok when it isn't.

I'd also like to say that it's not just Eukyld's actions as a result of being called out that is scummy it's the way he did it. Why did he make a post, seemingly satisfied with himself and his vote, and then shortly afterwards contradict that thoughtprocess? To me it reads as paranoid scum worried that he'll look bad by not conceding to poor play.

[CT075]

it's ED1 so grasping happens.

it's actuallly ED3

[Prims]

Cam please sub in so I can daykill you.

[Kriemhild]

@Proto: Just what IS indicative of alignment if not the way someone thinks and the way they choose to behave? Do you believe that scum do not have an ideal playstyle that is different to a member of the town? The frustrating thing is I'm pretty sure you've said this stuff as town so all you're doing is justifying to yourself that not scumhunting is ok when it isn't.

Oh, no, I do believe that the same player may have different playstyles when they're playing as scum or town. However, I would expect these differences to manifest only in response to content that is relevant to the game (information, events, etc). However, the game just started and nothing happened yet. This current discussion is based on events from the RVS stage from the first page. So yes, I don't believe that a player's playstyle during the RVS depends on their alignment. imo only a really dumb or purely noobish player would change their RVS behavior based on their alignment, and I have faith in Euklyd's intelligence.

I'd also like to say that it's not just Eukyld's actions as a result of being called out that is scummy it's the way he did it. Why did he make a post, seemingly satisfied with himself and his vote, and then shortly afterwards contradict that thoughtprocess? To me it reads as paranoid scum worried that he'll look bad by not conceding to poor play.

Are you implying that only paranoid scum would be worried about looking bad? Neither Town nor Mafia would want to look bad. Even if you're right about him being afraid of looking bad, it still tells us zilch about his alignment. I believe it would be detrimental to make a big deal out of this and have discussions on this as if it were valid scumhunting.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

How can I be sure that I'm an innocent person when even my Role PM isn't sure...or is it? Being part of the Illuminati would be way easier, their Role PM's have less question marks!

This self alignment hinting sets off a small alarm. Town really tends not to do this, but it like never gets called out.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Refa

What Proto says applies to himself, and I don't see anything scummy beyond that.

kirsche gets a check mark

[eclipse]

Let's go.

1. Negative utility roles exist. I am one of them. Bad things happen to whoever targets me.

2. I somehow got out of page 2 with a few weak town reads and a bunch of null ones. You guys are the worst.

##Vote: Paperblade Blitz

The "discussion" right now feels like town infighting.

[Kriemhild]

This self alignment hinting sets off a small alarm. Town really tends not to do this, but it like never gets called out.

Oh, snap, I never actually thought of it that way before. I actually agree with Weapons here, so I'm going to shamelessly sheep him.

##Unvote

##Vote: Refa

(and before anyone calls me out on this, yes, I do believe this behavior is based on actual game content, since he was discussing alignments while being aware of his own)

[Blitz]

I generally don't like to engage in these kinds of discussions because I believe they are based purely on the way that players generally behave, and not on their alignment. This is not the kind of discussion that would draw out differences in behavior based on alignment. There is literally no information for players to react to.

(did anyone bother checking the name Euklyd voted on)

Cam isn't even in the playerlist, so he kind HAD to change his vote, so basically, he had to react to it. (even if Cam is a hidden, I don't see anything good coming from voting him atm)

I actually agree with what Refa said and Euklyd's reaction had to take place to get him to do something productive, because his previous vote literally said, "I will hold on to my vote for now"

so, Proto voting for Refa makes no sense to me,

##Vote: Proto

was your Refa vote a serious one?

if so, build an actual case

also, in other news (cause I can't live without flavor speccing) we lynched Illuminati (recruited) on N1, who happened to have been a vig before. If Illuminati recruits on all nights, I don't think we can tackle the situation without the vig, so the possibility of someone else being recruited last night is very less IMO (I can always be wrong, lol)

anyone knows of anything special that can happen on D3 other than knowing the deaths that too place and recruitment that took place? (also, notice that Stss took away a lot of our investigative role, so, info roles may be very scarce in this game.)

[Blitz]

this time, you are just taking Weapon's case and actually not thinking for yourself, so, vote stays

[eclipse]

This is oddly self-conscious. Also, why are you rolespeccing, Blitz?

[Blitz]

cause I enjoy doing it

[euklyd]

@Kirsche - I made two posts and not one because I thought it would look funnier there's literally no reason beyond that

also lol at my vote on Vhaltz being more substantial than my vote on Cam they're both complete jokes

I think the contradiction is weird but I don't see it as defensive or reactionary personally. I agree that Euk didn't HAVE to change his vote but eh (kind of have an idea of what he was thinking but would like Euklyd to explain himself)

[spoiler=sure okay]- I came into this game having exactly one goal for RVS: vote Cam for being hidden lurkscum.
- I woke up late, and thought I'd missed my chance.
- I read, saw the Vhaltz thing and decided I could make a reasonable RVS jokevote there, but I really wanted to make the Cam RVS joke (and I thought it was funnier anyways).
- I decided that since people weren't impressed with my joke I'd proceed to standard RVS play.
and now we're here

sidenote: wasn't Proto literally mislynched in CY'OR for doing exactly this?
I feel like he would defend me like this as town or scum.
I don't agree with what he's saying (because it means the game would never move forward) but I don't think him saying it means he's scum at all.

Blitz's post seems off to me and I'll get to that after I appease my parents.

[Prims]

proto are you going to answer my post

Weapons, is Proto scummy? I also think "scum implies they're town more than town does" is downright untrue, especially on this forum.

[euklyd]

Practice tests suck.
Driving tests are not an exception.

I was considering looking over Refa's actions in RVS of his past, like, 10 games, to see if he implies that he's town more often as town or scum
...but then I remembered that if he implied that he was town in any of those all it would mean was that Refa does that when he plays mafia.
moral of the story: Refa should stop rolling scum

I thought it was more off than it looks on a closer look

(did anyone bother checking the name Euklyd voted on)

Cam isn't even in the playerlist, so he kind HAD to change his vote, so basically, he had to react to it. (even if Cam is a hidden, I don't see anything good coming from voting him atm)

I actually agree with what Refa said and Euklyd's reaction had to take place to get him to do something productive, because his previous vote literally said, "I will hold on to my vote for now"

so, Proto voting for Refa makes no sense to me,

##Vote: Proto

was your Refa vote a serious one?
if so, build an actual case

also, in other news (cause I can't live without flavor speccing) we lynched Illuminati (recruited) on N1, who happened to have been a vig before. If Illuminati recruits on all nights, I don't think we can tackle the situation without the vig, so the possibility of someone else being recruited last night is very less IMO (I can always be wrong, lol)

anyone knows of anything special that can happen on D3 other than knowing the deaths that too place and recruitment that took place? (also, notice that Stss took away a lot of our investigative role, so, info roles may be very scarce in this game.)

we all know that Cam wasn't on the playerlist that's the entire point
hell, that's why I voted him

What do you mean when you agree with Refa?
basically,

I actually agree with what Refa said and Euklyd's reaction had to take place to get him to do something productive, because his previous vote literally said, "I will hold on to my vote for now"

so, Proto voting for Refa makes no sense to me,

I don't understand what you're trying to say here

also the spec is Dumb; please clarify if it's actually supposed to be serious. none of the dead were ever on the sign-ups, and the roles are a wee bit too powerful/"perfect" for me to take them seriously. also not only did our info role die but so did our protective role.

they were the same person/role

That being said Weapons, Proto are you really voting Refa on a global scumtell, and not even a very good one?

[Kay]

Euk wanting to make a joke and realvoting once it was made and noticed isn't anything wrong imo.

I actually agree with what Refa said and Euklyd's reaction had to take place to get him to do something productive, because his previous vote literally said, "I will hold on to my vote for now"

so, Proto voting for Refa makes no sense to me,

##Vote: Proto

was your Refa vote a serious one?

if so, build an actual case

No, he had a reason for that and it made sense, even if you agree with Refa. I think you are playing dumb here, and I don't like it.

Also, you know those flips are almost certainly just for show, right? Like the host role PMs in other games? Why are you analyzing them?

##Stab: Blitzy

[euklyd]

Also, you know those flips are almost certainly just for show, right? Like the host role PMs in other games? Why are you analyzing them?

Dammit Kay you said what I was trying to say but in like, 1/3 the words.

Stop making me look bad.

also was that a vote or not

[Kay]

Oops, that was a vote with wrong tags, yup.

##Stab: Blitzy

[Kriemhild]

That being said Weapons, Proto are you really voting Refa on a global scumtell, and not even a very good one?

What do you mean by global scumtell?

And no, I don't think it's a very good one myself. But it's the only thing that bothers me even a little bit, so I might as well place my vote there.

fyi I have a tendency to try seeing everyone as being Town and justifying their behavior, so I fail really hard at identifying scummy behaviors and such.

[eclipse]

cause I enjoy doing it

Yeah, no. Unless you're some sort of role that knows something about those opening PMs, I'm not going to take them seriously.

Vote staying put.

[Refa]

I meant reactionary. Terminology is hard.

What do you think of people being reactionary in RVS Refa? For instance, here, do you think Euklyd really had any need to change his vote? If he did, why did he need to in teh first place, and why does he do it only after he's called out of it?

Same to BBM.

Being reactionary is the least indicative of alignment in RVS (like Darros was super reactionary in Doomsday but so was Poly). I do feel like he needed to change his vote, because as funny as voting a non player is, it doesn't really progress the game any. Him doing it after he got called out is (like Prims said) something he could do as either alignment; as town he'd be trying to help progress the game and as scum he'd be trying to appear as town.

Also for what it's worth, just his general tone made me feel better about him (since he tends to be more aggressive as scum from what I've seen anyways).

I don't really get Proto's initial vote on me (like to me, it looked like a joke, but I can't really tell plus what kirsche said) and his later explanations don't really expand on that at all. OK, we get why you're not voting Euklyd (the reasoning here is the same as mine so i'm not bothered) but you said like nothing about me (the person you're voting). I don't like how he had already voted me previously but needed to sheep someone else's case to have a reason to vote me (I mean if the first vote was a joke then it makes sense but IDK what that is). Only issue I have with my read is that I'm not sure he'd do that as scum (because it's so obvious) and I feel like he wouldn't be so persistent with his reasons for not being bothered by Euklyd as scum.

However, while Proto has done things that make me think he's just the guy with unpopular opinions, Weapons somehow slipped under the radar despite being scummier overall? Weapons' case on me is really forced (like just the last game I was like YES I AM FINALLY TOWN; in all fairness I wouldn't expect him to know that, though) and comes across as him looking for something that could be construed as scummy rather than actually seeing scum intent there (does that make sense to anyone else).

##Unvote

##Vote: Weapons

Would like everyone voting Proto to tell me what they think of Weapons and why they believe Proto is scummier than him. Also can't wait to be bothered by someone who isn't scumreading me, I'm so hype.

[Refa]

Also didn't kirsche imply he was town before? And yet, Weapons still ignored him (and presumably does not send him presents on British Christmas)...

[Refa]

I'd also like to say that it's not just Eukyld's actions as a result of being called out that is scummy it's the way he did it. Why did he make a post, seemingly satisfied with himself and his vote, and then shortly afterwards contradict that thoughtprocess? To me it reads as paranoid scum worried that he'll look bad by not conceding to poor play.

Man, you have not been scum with Euklyd lol (he like spends WAY TOO MUCH TIME double checking all of his posts and seeing if they're all fine and won't get too much flak before actually making them). If anything that's a town tell.

Let's go.

1. Negative utility roles exist. I am one of them. Bad things happen to whoever targets me.
2. I somehow got out of page 2 with a few weak town reads and a bunch of null ones. You guys are the worst.

##Vote: Paperblade Blitz

The "discussion" right now feels like town infighting.

By discussion, are you referring to kirsche and Euklyd or me and Proto or something else entirely.

also, in other news (cause I can't live without flavor speccing) we lynched Illuminati (recruited) on N1, who happened to have been a vig before. If Illuminati recruits on all nights, I don't think we can tackle the situation without the vig, so the possibility of someone else being recruited last night is very less IMO (I can always be wrong, lol)

Not really bothered by the rolespec itself, but does this ping anyone else? Like I thought the Illuminati was just a scumteam, not a cult. Dunno if this is a slip or just a silly assumption, just seemed off to me though.

Euklyd, earlier you implied you were bothered by Blitz. Do you think he's scum? Is there anyone that you're scumreading?

Proto's latest post makes me feel like he's not scum. Like yeah, scum can have a hard time forcing cases but his behavior reminds me of BBM in Doomsday (different people, but this isn't a meta thing because I know fuck all about Proto's meta). I don't see why he'd spend so much time arguing that it's hard to come up with reads on ED1 when people are giving him so much flak for it.