Sun and Moon Competitive Discussion

[ZoesMad]

So for some of us who like to theorize and get really nerdy with our Pokemon, this thread could be a place for that. I thought it would be fun to share ideas for competitive sets, thoughts on potential shifts in the meta, and more! I'll start the ball rolling with two ideas of my own.

First off, we have Bruxish and a very interesting new ability, Dazzling. It blocks all priority moves which is a very great boon for any mon. Stats dependent, I could see lots of use for that as a Talonflame check or counter, being immune to Gale Wings and resisting Flare Blitz. If it's an offensive mon Dazzling would prevent it from being revenge killed by the likes of Mega Pinsir, Talonflame, and most importantly Bisharp which would eat it alive normally thanks to its Secondary Psychic typing. If it's defensive, it can still be useful depending on its speed stat, but I hope it's offensive due to the prior reasoning.

The second idea I had was about Beware. It's new ability, Fluffy, is basically a nerfed Fur Coat. It doubles defense but also adds a Fire weakness. Again stats dependent, I could see Beware having a great Tank set utilizing Assault Vest. With AV and Fluffy buffing it's defenses, it's free to invest in any combination it wants of HP, Attack, and Speed (but I think it will be kind of slow.) I can see it getting good coverage with lives like Close Combat/Hammer Arm, the elemental punches, Earthquake, and maaaybe Knock Off. While it's typing isn't stellar, hopefully it's natural bulk would let it tank neutral hits decently enough.

What competitive sets or ideas have you guys thought of?

Edited August 16, 2016 by Lord Gaius

[Michelaar]

Nothing really. I just wait 'til the games come out to see which pokémon I end up liking in competitive

[Moblin Major General]

Focus Sash Wishiwashi Endeavor/QA combo? Already shown Pain Split Pyukumuku. Mudsdale could be a bulky sweeper with Stamina, and Stakeout could put Gumshoos in UU.

[Emerson]

Focus Sash Wishiwashi Endeavor/QA combo?

Choice Scarf (Band/Specs if it has good speed) Mixed Sweeper could work very well too. The calcs have shown it's Special Attack being 170 at the lowest, and 230 at the highest. Take them with a gain of salt, but it's still going to be a massive threat either way. It almost OHKO'd a Magezone 10 levels higher than it with Hydro Pump.

I'm really curious how the Alolan forms are going to do. Marowak could be great with 2 natural immunities and 1 from Lightning Rod. Hopefully it's a special attacker, as that'll piggyback off Lightning Rod and make it most likely very viable. That would also make it not rely on the Thick Club to be decent, meaning it could run Specs, Scarf or Life Orb. Maybe even Assault Vest. Maybe it's just wishful thinking.

Edited August 16, 2016 by TrueEm

[Konnor97]

First off, we have Bruxish and a very interesting new ability, Dazzling. It blocks all priority moves which is a very great boon for any mon. Stats dependent, I could see lots of use for that as a Talonflame check or counter, being immune to Gale Wings and resisting Flare Blitz. If it's an offensive mon Dazzling would prevent it from being revenge killed by the likes of Mega Pinsir, Talonflame, and most importantly Bisharp which would eat it alive normally thanks to its Secondary Psychic typing. If it's defensive, it can still be useful depending on its speed stat, but I hope it's offensive due to the prior reasoning.

This is good thinking and all, but do we know if Dazzling prevents any move with positive priority from hitting, or does it only prevent standard positive priority moves? This is an important distinction. The official site says, "The Dazzling Ability prevents opponents from using priority moves that normally strike first," keyword being normally. Going by this wording, it seems like it only prevents move that always have positive priority. Bruxish is being touted as a potential Talonflame counter due to Dazzling, but if it doesn't count moves given positive priority from Gale Wings, Prankster, or Triage, it loses that particular niche. It's a bit of a specific niche, but the main one people talk about when discussing Bruxish's potential viability.

Anyway, onto my thoughts on some pokemon.

Charjabug, depending on its defenses and HP, it could possibly make a useful doubles support mon with an Eviolite. Hopefully it's closer to Swadloon stat and moveset wise than stuff like Metapod or Silcoon.

As cool as Vikavolt is, it's got its work cut out for it. It's direct comparison/competition is Galvantula, and Vikavolt will either need to be faster, stronger, or both to keep up with it. While Levitate is cool and all, it only loses a neutral resistance from it, and Compound Eyes means Galvantula can put out fairly consistent Thunders. Hopefully it gets something to differentiate itself from Galvantula.

Komala's evolution (assuming it has one) might be nice if it keeps Comatose. It would allow it to safely switch on obvious Will-O-Wisps and Thunder Waves, and be safe on the rare Toxic Spikes. We need to see if it prevents stuff like Confusion, and if it does, that's even better. Hopefully it learns stuff like Wish and Calm Mind/Cosmic Power (unlikely but possible) and it has good defenses to be a really good tank that can't be weathered down except for crits and super effective attacks.

Pikipek's evolutions might be good attackers depending on what moves it can get with Skill Link. Fury Attack is a shoo-in, and I could see Bullet Seed, and maybe-but-unlikely Pin Missile. Hopefully we get a Flying type version this gen.

Gumshoos' Stakeout seems nice. Send it out against a pokemon that doesn't do well against it, and let them decide whether they stay in with a bad mon or take a Stakeout boosted attack. The problem might be finding something that fears Gumshoos though. I hope Stakeout works against pokemon that are sent out if the previous one fainted, but it's unlikely. Strong Jaw is alright, but it won't get stab, and Stakeout seems so much better.

Salandit seems like a fast special attacker, but unfortunately Corrosion only works with the poison status, and not Poison moves in general. It could've been nice if it allowed Poison moves to affect Steel types along with the poison status thing, as it could set up Toxic Spikes and get some nice hits with Venoshock. As it stands, there seems to be little reason on bothering with poisoning Steel/Poison types if it has Fire moves.

Bewear seems really strong, and hopefully it has the bulk to back it up (I doubt it'll be fast). Fluffy halves contact moves, so most physicals and a few specials, in exchange for an effective Fire weakness, which sounds nice. I can see it falling down with the other bear pokemon though.

Mimikyu's Disguise seems good, like, really good. It would be extremely overpowered if it renews on switch out, so I can see that not happening. It needs some decent stats though, as its gimmick can't just carry it through everything. Ghost/Fairy is a good typing, nulling Normal, Fighting, and Dragon, 4x resisting Bug, but is weak to Ghost (a not too common type) and Steel (also not too common type).

Comfey's Triage seems really interesting, and I think it's gonna be this gen's Audino as a pure support mon. It's gonna be stuck into doubles of course. Triage Wish, Triage Heal Pulse, Triage Recover, Triage Aromatherapy (hope it counts), Triage Healing Wish, etc. It might be decent.

Mudsdale seems like one of those pokemon that's gonna have high HP, high attack, high defense, bad everything else, and even though Stamina is a good ability, I don't see it being too great. It could pair up well with Assault Vest, and if you get something with Beat Up to beef it up in doubles, it could help it out. Unfortunately it wouldn't be able heal with Assault Vest, so Leftovers could be good instead.

Minior to me feels definitely like a lower tier pokemon. Shields Down gives free status protection and makes sure Shield!Minior will have good defenses, but when it goes under half it automatically changes into Core!Minior, which gives it good attacking stats in exchange for bad defenses (presumably). From what we know of pokemon that have an ability that changes them at half health, it won't do well as it can't build itself on both sides of the change. It will probably do a little better than Darmanitan in this aspect as it won't change its primary attacking stat, but you have to either build on its defenses that will fall apart once it goes below half health, or build on its offenses that only work when it's nearing KO. At least Darmanitan isn't forced into Zen Mode.

Lurantis is probably going to be a not-as-rare-as-I-thought physical or mixed Grass type going by Solar Blade, which seems to be a physical Solar Beam. It'd need to team with a Drought pokemon, as I doubt its defenses/speed are good enough to set up Sunny Day by itself, and it doesn't get Chlorophyll. It should get Leaf Blade and some other cutting moves based on its look and it being the Bloom Sickle pokemon. It'll have some competition with the other low tier Grass types.

Oricorio is gonna partner up well with pokemon with dance moves such as Swords Dance, Dragon Dance, and Quiver Dance. Dancer does have that uniqueness of automatically copying the move, disregarding turn order, and allowing Oricorio to still use the move it chose once its turn comes. I hope it can copy/use Fiery Dance for that possible special attack boost, and I'd bet Baile Style can learn it. Revelation Dance is a nice pseudo-Judgement and a guaranteed STAB move. I hope to see some Lunar Dance trolling from Cresselia.

I did an analysis on some of Wishiwashi School Form's stats in the main SM topic, and I can see it being something that'll use a Choice Item, probably Scarf, and attack for major damage until it reverts into Solo Form and dies. It could pair up with something that has Wish to get it back into School Form if it survives getting knocked out it.

Pyukumuku I hope has an evo that has an even higher HP stat with the low defenses needed to work Innards Out. I hope people don't give it Focus Sash, missing the point of Innards Out, unless they're using Pain Split. I have no clue about what offensive stats it will have, but I feel it may be slightly more towards physical, just going off the fact that it uses its innards like a fist.

No thoughts at the moment for neither the other pokemon nor the Alolan forms.

Edited August 17, 2016 by Konnor97

[Soapbar]

My thoughts on some of the Alola Forms, first I'm gonna respond to TrueEm

I'm really curious how the Alolan forms are going to do. Marowak could be great with 2 natural immunities and 1 from Lightning Rod. Hopefully it's a special attacker, as that'll piggyback off Lightning Rod and make it most likely very viable. That would also make it not rely on the Thick Club to be decent, meaning it could run Specs, Scarf or Life Orb. Maybe even Assault Vest. Maybe it's just wishful thinking.

I could see him being a very good Specially-Bulky Sweeper, Lightning Rod would allow it get more SP.ATK while also being a resistant to a lot of good special attacking types. One thing that interests me is that it could have a unique trapping move:

The Alolan Marowak proves skilled at an attack in which it waves its bone and releases a ball of flame. The fireballs are not that powerful, but they tirelessly pursue the foe!

Which would be really good as it would gain the ability to pick and choose who it fights. It could take out very threatning special attackers such as Mega-Charizard Y, Raikou, Manetric-Mega, etc.

Alola Exeggutor has a pretty damn amazing typing, 3 1/4 Resistances, damn son. If it has the stats it might give Chansey some competiton (read, being a special tank with less bulk but actually able to do damage, presumably)

Alola Raichu just seems like a worse Excadrill. Relies on it's team to setup Terrain, but is stupidly strong in that terrain. The problem is that yeah having tons of speed and 50% more damage on your STAB moves is great but when those moves are countered by one of the most common attacking types that you also happen to be weak to AND that also happens to form the basis of Sand Teams, yeah your not getting very far.

Alola-Meowth, well, we'd need to see it's evolution first, but assuming it keeps Technician into evolution it'd make a pretty good priority hitter. In LC, it'll probably end up being a good Quick Attack user due to two-stage Pokemon generally having higher stats for their prior evolutions.

Alolan-Sandslash...is Game Freak taking the piss? Snow Cloak is not a good ability, it never will be as long as Double Team is banned (and it will never be unbanned), and according to the site it will be slower than regular Sandslash?! Sandslash only has a base 65 speed! If it keeps the same statline as regular Sandslash but slower, I swear this thing is going to get it's own tier below PU.

Alola-Ninetails; again, Snow Cloak is bad, and it's typing isn't great. It's not as bad as A-Sandslash but certainly not good.

And that's all of them except for Alola-Vulpix, which I really don't feel like talking about since we already have it's evolution. What do you guys think about this?

Edited August 17, 2016 by Soapbar

[Emerson]

Alola Raichu just seems like a worse Excadrill. Relies on it's team to setup Terrain, but is stupidly strong in that terrain. The problem is that yeah having tons of speed and 50% more damage on your STAB moves is great but when those moves a countered by one of the most common attacking types that you are weak to AND that also happens to form the basis of Sand Teams is going to drag it down.

Alolan-Sandslash...is Game Freak taking the piss? Snow Cloak is not a good ability, it never will be as long as Double Team is banned (and it will never be unbanned), and according to the site it will be slower than regular Sandslash?! Sandslash only has a base 65 speed! If it keeps the same statline as regular Sandslash, I swear this thing is going to get it's own tier below PU.

Alola-Ninetails; again, Snow Cloak is bad, and it's typing isn't great. It's not as bad as A-Sandslash but certainly not good.

Alolan Raichu will probably have more Special Attack than a normal Raichu and, by the looks of it, more bulk. Electric Psychic is a pretty good type coverage as well. As long as you put a good counter to Ground on your team, it can do well in Singles.

In Doubles and VGC however, this thing will be destructive when paired with Tapu Koko, stats dependent. Hopefully we get more Pokemon and Abilities to go with Electric Terrain, and maybe buff Electric Terrain as well. It has no item to boost duration. The same goes for Grassy and Misty Terrain.

Sandslash could be decent. First off; Hidden Ability. It normally has Sand Rush as it's hidden ability, but maybe it could get something new or better relating to Hail, or (Hopefully) entirely different. Maybe it'll stick with Sand Rush for it's HA and be viable for Sandstorm teams? Secondly; Learnset. It gets Gyro Ball already, so if it's slower, that's a big plus. Next would be Ice Shard, for priority. Lastly, Icicle Crash, which I'm pretty sure we saw it use in the Trailer already. Possibly Protect for a last move. Maybe it'll get some Status moves, which could help it be a great stall. I can't see it being too high up with both Fighting and Fire as 4x weaknesses, but I think it could be better than normal Sandslash. #PrayForFilterHA

Alolan Ninetales is a new Snow Warning mon, let's be honest. It can't beat out normal Ninetales with it's typing, but it's stat distribution could be based more on Special Attack rather than Special Defense like normal Ninetales. Just speculation, as it's really the only way I can see them differentiating it's stats from normal Ninetales in a good way. I could see a set using Life Orb with Ice Beam, Moonblast, Will-O-Wisp, and something else.

Hopefully they give us some mons to help out Hail teams. They need a Flash Fire user or something to help with that ever present Fire Weakness. Maybe we'll finally get our Ice-Fire type with Flash Fire?

Why has no one talked about Saladit yet, it was so hyped! Assuming it doesn't evolve and has stats like Zangoose, Skarmory, etc, it could be pretty good, able to get Toxic off onto anything you want. The opponent basically has to select what to get Poisoned. Sash would be your best friend here, allowing you to always get off a Toxic unless they are a multi-hit move user like Cloyster. If it has good speed, which it might, you could also run Venoshock, as it could work really well with the focus being Poisoning anyone who comes in. I wish moves like Hex and Venoshock were more viable, and Salandit might make it so.

A set I see, assuming it does NOT evolve, is Toxic, Venoshock/Sludge Bomb, something else, and Flamethrower/that new move we saw it use in the trailer, holding a Focus Sash for meh stats, Life Orb for great Speed, or Air Balloon to cover it's 4x Ground Weakness temporarily- enough time to set up the Toxic on whatever is switched in or kept in.

If it does evolve, it'll just be even MORE viable!

Edited August 17, 2016 by TrueEm

[Konnor97]

Why has no one talked about Saladit yet, it was so hyped! Assuming it doesn't evolve and has stats like Zangoose, Skarmory, etc, it could be pretty good, able to get Toxic off onto anything you want. The opponent basically has to select what to get Poisoned. Sash would be your best friend here, allowing you to always get off a Toxic unless they are a multi-hit move user like Cloyster. If it has good speed, which it might, you could also run Venoshock, as it could work really well with the focus being Poisoning anyone who comes in. I wish moves like Hex and Venoshock were more viable, and Salandit might make it so.

A set I see, assuming it does NOT evolve, is Toxic, Venoshock/Sludge Bomb, something else, and Flamethrower/that new move we saw it use in the trailer, holding a Focus Sash for meh stats, Life Orb for great Speed, or Air Balloon to cover it's 4x Ground Weakness temporarily- enough time to set up the Toxic on whatever is switched in or kept in.

If it does evolve, it'll just be even MORE viable!

I touched a bit on Salandit, speculating it as a fast special attacker, with its gimmick being interesting, but probably not that good. If it learns Toxic Spikes it could be good, assuming that Salandit's Toxic Spikes still poison Steel/Poison types (unless Poison types still remove them) if it's not out, which I assume they would. My problem with Corrosion is that yes it can poison Steel/Poison types, but there doesn't really seem to be a reason to dedicate itself to doing it. Laying down Toxic Spikes is fine, and it could potentially get the toxic effect with a Focus Sash, but using Toxic or whatever doesn't seem to be worth it. It can't Venoshock Steel types, and Poison types resist Poison moves. If Salandit is fighting a Steel type, what would be better for it? Poisoning it, or using something like Flamethrower?

If it's a tanky Steel type that would whoop Salandit, poisoning it would be a good idea though. If it got Hex like you sorta suggested, that would be great as a reason to poison Steel/Poison types, as Ghost hits them neutral. If it had Toxic Spikes, U-Turn/Venoshock, Hex/Venoshock, and Flamethrower/Fire Blast, with a Focus Sash, max speed and special attack, and something else that had Rapid Spin/Defog, it could make an interesting leading mon. Set up a layer of Toxic Spikes or two, hightail it out of there, and later on in the match while the opponent's team is weakened/poisoned and your side is filled with Stealth Rocks, send in Salandit to help clean up what remains. This is wishful thinking, but if it turns out this way, Salandit/its potential evolved form could be good.

I like how it sounded like I was doubtful of Salandit at the start, to being for it a bit towards the end.

Edited August 17, 2016 by Konnor97

[ZoesMad]

In response to everyone in no particular order:

I really hope salandit has more stall breakery stats, high defenses and speed with mediocre offense. Imo this would let it fulfill a niche better especially if it got access to stuff like Taunt. Just slowly spreading poison damage around and maybe setting up toxic spikes could give it some usage. Fire/Poison has a nice set of resistances along with bad Ground/Water weaknesses.

Alolan Raichu could probably put in work since I think Raichu gets Grass Knot (maybe it will get Surf because it's surfing on its tail?) and most Ground mons are on the heavy side. HP Ice for Lando/Gliscor could be good too. I really hope it gets a strong SpA stat, speed not as worried about.

Alolan Marowak being a special attacker would be nice to take advantage of Lightning Rod, but even then it could probably run Thick Club to lure some special walls in and get a surprise KO with flare blitz or whatever. Typing looks really goo, I've seen it be mentioned as a good threat to VoltTurn teams.

Mimikyu's ability triggering more than once per match seems really broken. It could hypothetically endlessly pivot if that was the ale. Ghost Fairy still seems really good though.

Alolan Ice types will probably be bad, Exxegutor has some hope but Frisk is kind of meh.

Wishiwashi seems to have the best chance of the HP trigger abilities, hopefully it has defenses or at least high speed (Archeops ;;) agree with analysis in Minior being hard to optimize similar to Darm Z (Aegislash is really the only mon able to pull it off well).

.

[Moblin Major General]

I'm wondering if Ultimate Zygarde will be Uber or AG. I doubt the latter, but it's possible.

[Soapbar]

There's always a chance it'll end up in OU (which would make XY Zygarde even less used) but most likely Ubers. AG would be very very unlikely.

[Emerson]

I touched a bit on Salandit, speculating it as a fast special attacker, with its gimmick being interesting, but probably not that good. If it learns Toxic Spikes it could be good, assuming that Salandit's Toxic Spikes still poison Steel/Poison types (unless Poison types still remove them) if it's not out, which I assume they would. My problem with Corrosion is that yes it can poison Steel/Poison types, but there doesn't really seem to be a reason to dedicate itself to doing it. Laying down Toxic Spikes is fine, and it could potentially get the toxic effect with a Focus Sash, but using Toxic or whatever doesn't seem to be worth it. It can't Venoshock Steel types, and Poison types resist Poison moves. If Salandit is fighting a Steel type, what would be better for it? Poisoning it, or using something like Flamethrower?

If it's a tanky Steel type that would whoop Salandit, poisoning it would be a good idea though. If it got Hex like you sorta suggested, that would be great as a reason to poison Steel/Poison types, as Ghost hits them neutral. If it had Toxic Spikes, U-Turn/Venoshock, Hex/Venoshock, and Flamethrower/Fire Blast, with a Focus Sash, max speed and special attack, and something else that had Rapid Spin/Defog, it could make an interesting leading mon. Set up a layer of Toxic Spikes or two, hightail it out of there, and later on in the match while the opponent's team is weakened/poisoned and your side is filled with Stealth Rocks, send in Salandit to help clean up what remains. This is wishful thinking, but if it turns out this way, Salandit/its potential evolved form could be good.

I like how it sounded like I was doubtful of Salandit at the start, to being for it a bit towards the end.

I don't think it's Toxic Spikes will poison all types. It's not directly poisoning them with the move itself, it's poisoning with what the move causes.

So the ability just affects Toxic and Poison Gas? That doesn't sound right.

I forgot about U-Turn. That could help it be a very solid lead. Although I really doubt we'll have Rapid Spin or Defog on it. Pray for a new move.

Onto another Pokemon; Minior. If it gets some setup like Rock Polish, it could be a decent Sweeper, assuming it's Attack/Special Attack is high enough. Life Orb could be a good, but I can also see Weakness Policy running on it. Hopefully it gets a good Flying coverage move, maybe some other types like Electric and Fire if we're lucky.

Edited August 17, 2016 by TrueEm

[Konnor97]

I don't think it's Toxic Spikes will poison all types. It's not directly poisoning them with the move itself, it's poisoning with what the move causes.

So the ability just affects Toxic and Poison Gas? That doesn't sound right.

I forgot about U-Turn. That could help it be a very solid lead. Although I really doubt we'll have Rapid Spin or Defog on it. Pray for a new move.

Onto another Pokemon; Minior. If it gets some setup like Rock Polish, it could be a decent Sweeper, assuming it's Attack/Special Attack is high enough. Life Orb could be a good, but I can also see Weakness Policy running on it. Hopefully it gets a good Flying coverage move, maybe some other types like Electric and Fire if we're lucky.

That's possible. I hope Toxic Spikes gets affected by Corrosion though.

"With the Corrosion Ability, it becomes possible to inflict the Poisoned status condition even on Steel- and Poison-type Pokémon." From the main site. It's possible it allows Poison type moves to hit Steel types also, but you'd think the site would mention that.

Rapid Spin/Defog mention was for another pokemon on the team. I highly doubt Salandit would get those.

Now, something I saw in another Salandit discussion, is that Hex might not be most useful thing Salandit could use if it learned it. Hex does hit Ghost, Poison, Steel, Rock, and Ground for neutral or better where Venoshock cannot, and it does also hit Psychics super effectively, which sounds pretty nice. However, that's where it ends. Salandit has no business staying in on those types of pokemon except for Steel and maybe Ghost, but Fire Blast/Flamethrower does more to Steel types than a proc'd Hex, not counting stuff like Heatran, and Ghost types aren't a common type. Now if Salandit is for whatever reason stuck on those types, it does have better options. U-Turn (assuming it gets it, which it should, as other 'sneaky' pokemon like Meowth, Aipom, Purrloin, etc. learn it) hits Psychic types, Hidden Power Ground hits Poison, Rock, and problematic Steel types, and Fire Blast/Flamethrower hits other neutral things better. Ground, Fire, and Bug hit just about anything you want. Hex doesn't add much to Salandit's coverage.

For Minior, I'll be damned if it doesn't get Shell Smash and/or Rock Polish. If it's defense is as good as the site says, and if the core gets a noticeable boost to speed as the site suggests, then a risky Shell Smash Weakness Policy set is a possibility. If it goes after the opponent, hopefully revealing the core, when it Shell Smashes, it can get the boosted offenses without risking death as much. Shell Smash + Weakness Policy gives it +3 Attack and Special Attack, which it should have a good amount of already, +2 Speed, which it should have a good amount of already, and -2 Defense and Special Defense, which it should have a bad amount of already. Rock Polish could also work if you don't want to risk Minior dying more.

I second the wishes of Minior getting some good Flying STAB. Hopefully it gets Acrobatics, as that's one of the few current Flying moves I can see it getting, along with Aerial Ace and maybe Bounce.

[Emerson]

That's possible. I hope Toxic Spikes gets affected by Corrosion though.

"With the Corrosion Ability, it becomes possible to inflict the Poisoned status condition even on Steel- and Poison-type Pokémon." From the main site. It's possible it allows Poison type moves to hit Steel types also, but you'd think the site would mention that.

Rapid Spin/Defog mention was for another pokemon on the team. I highly doubt Salandit would get those.

Now, something I saw in another Salandit discussion, is that Hex might not be most useful thing Salandit could use if it learned it. Hex does hit Ghost, Poison, Steel, Rock, and Ground for neutral or better where Venoshock cannot, and it does also hit Psychics super effectively, which sounds pretty nice. However, that's where it ends. Salandit has no business staying in on those types of pokemon except for Steel and maybe Ghost, but Fire Blast/Flamethrower does more to Steel types than a proc'd Hex, not counting stuff like Heatran, and Ghost types aren't a common type. Now if Salandit is for whatever reason stuck on those types, it does have better options. U-Turn (assuming it gets it, which it should, as other 'sneaky' pokemon like Meowth, Aipom, Purrloin, etc. learn it) hits Psychic types, Hidden Power Ground hits Poison, Rock, and problematic Steel types, and Fire Blast/Flamethrower hits other neutral things better. Ground, Fire, and Bug hit just about anything you want. Hex doesn't add much to Salandit's coverage.

For Minior, I'll be damned if it doesn't get Shell Smash and/or Rock Polish. If it's defense is as good as the site says, and if the core gets a noticeable boost to speed as the site suggests, then a risky Shell Smash Weakness Policy set is a possibility. If it goes after the opponent, hopefully revealing the core, when it Shell Smashes, it can get the boosted offenses without risking death as much. Shell Smash + Weakness Policy gives it +3 Attack and Special Attack, which it should have a good amount of already, +2 Speed, which it should have a good amount of already, and -2 Defense and Special Defense, which it should have a bad amount of already. Rock Polish could also work if you don't want to risk Minior dying more.

I second the wishes of Minior getting some good Flying STAB. Hopefully it gets Acrobatics, as that's one of the few current Flying moves I can see it getting, along with Aerial Ace and maybe Bounce.

The thing with Hex is that it has 130 Power when they have a status effect, which makes it better than a super effective Hidden Power. The only thing it doesn't hit for Neutral or better is Normal and Dark, which is pretty good. If they have a normal type, you have to try and predict the switch, assuming you have Toxic Spikes up already. Otherwise you'd probably just want go for Toxic. This is still assuming the best case scenario where Toxic Spikes work with Corrosion and Salandit gets Hex.

I forgot about Shell Smash. :/

Priority in general is going to be Minior's bane for that strategy. If it has -1 in Defense, plus having bad Defenses in it's Core form, PLUS being at at least half health, it's not surviving any priority really. Hopefully it'll get some priority itself.

[ZoesMad]

Weakness Policy is definitely something I forgot about, and seems to be the only way Minior can function with Shields Down. Status protection when it switches in to setup is nice. Celebi has been able to run nice WP sets because of its U-turn weakness in the past, and I could see something similar with Volt Switch here. Scizor, Azumarill, and even Talinflame depending on how low it's defenses go are going to be bad for Minior though.

For Zygarde it's probably just gonna get a BST increase and maybe access to a new move? That might be enough to bump it to Ubers, especially if it breaks past the 95 speed tier a ton of legendaries sit at. Extreme speed is cool too.

[Soapbar]

I'm thinking Belly Drum might be better for Minior if it's Core Form has decent speed. Shell Smash wouldn't give enough benefits to be worth the defense hit but just sorta hitting Belly Drum and instantly being able to wreck fools would be a pretty good plus. I'm actually thinking that the difference between Minior being RU or NU would depend on these moves.

[ZoesMad]

I'm thinking Belly Drum might be better for Minior if it's Core Form has decent speed. Shell Smash wouldn't give enough benefits to be worth the defense hit but just sorta hitting Belly Drum and instantly being able to wreck fools would be a pretty good plus. I'm actually thinking that the difference between Minior being RU or NU would depend on these moves.

It would a have to be forcing switches a lot to be able to use Belly Drum effectively, and Shield!Minior could have a tough time doing that. Shell Smash has the advantage of keeping Shield form up before setting up, while as soon as you Belly Drun you're exposed more the turn you set up.

[Soapbar]

Here's the thing, with Shell Smash your not guaranteed to be in Core Form after you use it, which leaves Shield Form at higher chance of being OHKO by Neutral or Super Effective moves.

With Belly Drum, the instant you use it, your in Core Form. You now have higher speed and a ridiculous attack stat, if you can out-speed the opposing Pokemon you can probably OHKO him and then start sweeping until your stopped.

This does raise the question of how high Minior's speed will be in Core Fo and how high it's defenses are in Shield, however.

[Emerson]

That still doesn't solve it's weakness to Priority moves. And with no speed boost, it might be outsped normally. Although I doubt it'll be low, it'll probably get outsped by faster mons. I think Weakness Policy/Shell Smash would actually be more reliable.

And I have no doubts Zygarde Complete will go into Ubers. I did notice that unlike every other mid-battle Forme, it actually increases it's HP as well. Just a thing.

Edited August 18, 2016 by TrueEm

[ZoesMad]

I think we all forgot about Morelull whoops. It's probably gonna be decent because it has a good typing and Spore. It could probably fill the void Amoonguss left in RU or even UU stats dependent.

[Emerson]

I think we all forgot about Morelull whoops. It's probably gonna be decent because it has a good typing and Spore. It could probably fill the void Amoonguss left in RU or even UU stats dependent.

TFW it turns out to be a speedy special sweeper

In all seriousness, I hope it doesn't turn out to be Amoonguss 2.0, or 0.5 if you will, as it doesn't really need to happen. It'd just be stuck in Amoonguss' shadow, so I really hope it's something new.

[Konnor97]

That still doesn't solve it's weakness to Priority moves. And with no speed boost, it might be outsped normally. Although I doubt it'll be low, it'll probably get outsped by faster mons. I think Weakness Policy/Shell Smash would actually be more reliable.

Thinking about it, it's kinda weird there's no priority Flying moves.

[Emerson]

Thinking about it, it's kinda weird there's no priority Flying moves.

Yeah. That's the one type you'd think would actually have one. Maybe we'll get one this gen!

Like wtf if Ice Shard as a priority move. If Ice types weren't so late game, it'd totally have been just be an Ice type Tackle.

Edited August 18, 2016 by TrueEm

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

I can't wait for them to drop those things like Greninja, Landorus I and friend only to realize oh shit Greninja is actually Deoxys A and gets banned again. Happens every generation and it always make me crack

Zygarde is probably going to AG. It had WTF IS THIS stats, and Thousand Arrows breaks flying clause. Also its one of few pokemon who could 1v1 Primal Groudon who is bar none the best pokemon in every single metagame that it can be used on

Honestly after some playing on AG and Ubers, the decision to move just Mega Rayquaza to AG is kinda dumb. Its not much better than Mega Salamence who hits harder without Life Orb on M Ray, and had Refresh mence option, and the only reason it gets off free like that is really because Primal Groudon destroyed the meta which had a chance to stop Mega Rayquaza.

An ideal AG by the time of XY would be Mega Salamence, Mega Rayquaza, Primal Groudon, and Zygarde Complete getting banned

For the mon on SM itself, the Grass Starter could be decent because of Hurricane Spam

Edited August 18, 2016 by JSND

[ZoesMad]

Turtonator actually seems to be well designed at first glance? Fire Dragon typing tanks typically Special types (Grass, Electric, Fairy, loses Water/Ice weakness). Rock and ground are dominantly physical, while Dragon is probably split pretty evenly. So to hit it super effectively you'll likely be using a physical move, which synergizes with Shell Trap. Hopefully Shell Trap had a high damage modifier of some sort. It also punishes U-turn spam both by resisting it and Shell Trap.