Looking for love in all the wrong places... and manners...

[Snowy_One]

Alright. Let me be 100% upfront.

I like women.

Not just on a lustful level either, but I'm someone who wants to be married and settle down with a wife and start a nice family where I can stay at home, tend to the house, tickle the kids, and kiss my wife happily as she heads out to work and I prepare dinner for her. I'm that kind of guy.

However there are a few problems. The biggest problem is that women scare the crap out of me. I'm always scared that, when I talk to one, I'll end up saying something that's going to end up with me running from the cops, my face plastered over facebook as a pervert, and the like. Seeing feminism in its current state hasn't helped as tubler and reddit are full of people more than willing to condemn someone to being a monster for being a straight, white, christian, male of middle-class quality, of which I am all three ATM. As a result whenever I see a woman, even sitting right beside me, I'm terrified that even saying 'hello' will end up with me being shouted down as a horrific monster and trying to build a relationship with one will result in her abandoning me on a whim for some lesbian chick that the interwebs says she should be dating while calling me a rapist for implying I might have some sexual interest in her; no offense intended towards lesbians intended.

That's not to mention that, even though I'm more comfortable with girls online, my past relationships, even 100% platonic ones, have a tendency to burn up in a fire. My relationship with Florina (apologies if there is one on this site. It's a Florina on a different site) ended with her being basically abusive to me over the internet and it's not the only relationship I've been in with a girl online that ended up with her hating me despite nothing romantic at all.

I know this isn't true and the few RL conversations I've had with women have proven to be actually positive and seem to defy my expectations, yet the fear hasn't abdicated and the idea of complimenting the cute indian girl down at the local pharmacy or telling the lawyer girl at city hall that I think she's nice-looking terrifies me to death. It doesn't help that about 95% of the women I do know are powerful old ladies who could have me fired for sneezing too loudly (and I'm dead serious on that. My job description is almost on-par with a potted plant. Go in, look nice, don't draw attention or many any noise at all, and if I can leave with no-one talking to me or noticing I was there I did good. I'm basically a legal ninja acolyte... and failure means death).

Secondly as someone whose job is about as clearly-defined as a ninja's outline and whose pay is technically below the legal minimum with hours that make it so that $60 a week is a blessing for me I can't afford to take a woman out on anything resembling a date unless saving up for two weeks to take her to the local steak-house counts as a 'date'. Not to mention that, even if she were to pay for everything, unless I smash into her on the street, I simply have no idea where I could even begin to look that wouldn't have me saving up to consider the local bar; never mind that I've sworn to never drink anything beyond the sacrament wine (seriously, the SCENT of schnaps can make me feel a bit light-headed. A full can of beer could probably end up with me being taken home by some guy named 'Pappa Chuck' for the night.)

I've tried things like internet dating, but as most require cash to do anything more than post a profile, I've had about 0 luck. I've gotten more views in my most recent failed RP than a year of trying dating sites.

Lastly... well... I'm ugly. Think of a fat Jamie Hyneman without the beret and a full beard.

I know the 'obvious' steps, as it were. Things like 'get a job, even a sucky one' 'don't be afraid' and the like, but when McDonalds turns you down for not speaking spanish and Burger King considers you a bad investment... yea... The only job I haven't been turned down from is working election poll-booths and my current one where my mom got me employed.

In short, I suck, I don't know what to really do to make it better, but I want to not-suck and have a nice family one day.

[eclipse]

Self-pity is a great way to repel women. So is not listening (if your posts in the tier list topics are any indication of how you are in other contexts). Take a good, honest look at both your strengths and flaws, and ask someone who both knows you and is willing to be honest with you about them (not me, as I fail the former), too. See how close the lists are - the further apart they are, the more work you have to do.

As for looks, check out some men's fashion/grooming tips. Not everyone looks like a super model, but personal grooming and style go a long way.

[Phoenix Wright]

the problem is you're afraid of failure. don't be afraid of failure.

look for better jobs. clean yourself up. change doesn't occur without some catalyst.

as cliché as everything i'm saying is, i do find it to be the truth. at some point, you're gonna have to make that first step of no longer drowning yourself with inner dialogue that makes you feel like shit. forcefully changing your life can make that happen.

i think it would be best to change yourself before you try getting into a relationship of any sort. i may be reading your post wrong, but to me it seems like you think finding a woman is what'll make you happy, what'll "fix" you; unfortunately, this is simply not the case. how you feel about yourself is the most important.

as for some specifics, change up the little things. what restaurants you visit, the route you take to work, the grocery store you prefer to go to, etc. people, naturally, reject large-scale change, so it might be useful to start small and go big. it won't be a fast process, but it's worth beginning at any time.

[EricaofRenais]

The whole world economy is not doing well right now and so jobs are hard to get right now which is one reason why I am still at home and doing babysitting jobs so I can buy the video games I want. My advice is go for walks to start getting in shape because walking does not cost anything and really does help you be healthy and fit and I know that at least community college offers a lot of financial aid to people and maybe you could take night classes so you could have a degree to get a better job. Just be nice and natural when you talk to people and maybe see if there are any groups that don't cost anything to join that are about things you are interested in because having something that both people are interested in makes a conversation a lot easier and more fun.

[Shin]

First you need to learn how to not treat women as women. They're not some alien race from some far away planet that will bite your head off if you do something wrong. Figure that out, then worry about the rest. If you're worried about your appearance, as long as you're presentable and don't wear a dirty potato sack most people won't mind.

Remember, you're a person too. If you can't like yourself, then it's going to be hard for you to be able to like other people properly.

[Chiki]

Well obviously 60 dollars per week (you even said that was a blessing) is ridiculous. You definitely need to do your best to look for a new job or two part-time jobs or something. And once you have money you can focus on grooming yourself, getting a better diet, exercise etc.

[FlipFlopMist]

Join black people meet dot com, solved my issues

First you need to learn how to not treat women as women. They're not some alien race from some far away planet that will bite your head off if you do something wrong. Figure that out, then worry about the rest. If you're worried about your appearance, as long as you're presentable and don't wear a dirty potato sack most people won't mind.

Remember, you're a person too. If you can't like yourself, then it's going to be hard for you to be able to like other people properly.

Pretty much this, just as long as shave/properly groom yourself you'll be fine.

There's nothing else to be said other than just keep trying to land a job and build up self confidence-there's someone out there for everyone, and while you may not find them right away or even in the near future, don't lose hope on the matter and just focus on improving yourself.

[Rapier]

Okay, I may not be the most appropriate person to say, but I'll try to be as logical as I can.

If your objective (love) implies you need to satisfy other minor objectives (get a job, improve yourself as a person, know how to talk to others), you should focus on these minor objectives first. If you are too eager to go for the bigger objective without satisfying the minor ones, you will become frustrated. Give these as much attention as (or more than) you'd give your major objective.

In other words, split the problem into various small parts until they are doable.

For example, if you absolutely and desperately need a job, and McDonalds asks that you know spanish before working there, then search for free online courses on spanish. If I recall correctly, Integrity has posted a topic with good quality, free online courses. I've learned english by myself, reading books, posts on the internet written in formal language, and searching the dictionary constantly in order to expand my vocabulary. It is still average, yet I've come a long way already and the knowledge that I have is enough to be considered fluent in workplaces. So, you may be able to learn spanish by yourself also.

The logic is finding the conditions that meet the minor objective, meeting these conditions, fulfilling your minor objective, then going for major objectives, as in a cycle.

First you need to learn how to not treat women as women. They're not some alien race from some far away planet that will bite your head off if you do something wrong. Figure that out, then worry about the rest. If you're worried about your appearance, as long as you're presentable and don't wear a dirty potato sack most people won't mind.

Remember, you're a person too. If you can't like yourself, then it's going to be hard for you to be able to like other people properly.

I don't intend to turn this topic into a discussion about feminism and women, but I disagree that there are no differences between women and men. I know these are not big enough for it to be impossible for both sexes to interact (otherwise... well, Bad Endings for all of us), but differences exist also.

The thing is, he will only learn to deal with these differences when he interacts with women. I know it is easier said than done, so... I suggest using his own friends as an example of how he should interact with other girls. Also, people themselves are very different from each other, so the very same logic applies to interacting with men.

[Shin]

I don't intend to turn this topic into a discussion about feminism and women, but I disagree that there are no differences between women and men. I know these are not big enough for it to be impossible for both sexes to interact (otherwise... well, Bad Endings for all of us), but differences exist also.

You misunderstand what I said, I didn't even remotely implied that. If Snowy can learn to treat women as people rather than some sort of concept that he fears, he'll feel a lot more comfortable in their proximity.

[Rapier]

You misunderstand what I said, I didn't even remotely implied that. If Snowy can learn to treat women as people rather than some sort of concept that he fears, he'll feel a lot more comfortable in their proximity.

My bad. Affirming that women are not all that much different from men is not the same as affirming that there are no differences at all, indeed. And leaving sexes aside and just treating them like people (which is what I do) is a good way to get through his issues. I particularly think the differences between people are far more significative and deep than differences between sexes, so yeah, don't see how it is 'scarier' than dealing with other men.

Edited March 28, 2015 by Rapier

[Chiki]

Wait, aren't you going to college? Why isn't that helping you get a job?

[Snowy_One]

Wait, aren't you going to college? Why isn't that helping you get a job?

Multiple reasons. Firstly the things I'm good at aren't the sort of things you'd be able to find a job for easily. Who wants someone who can detail the geological history of an area for their customer service position? Secondly all the job openings around me are suspiciously filled by people sharing a lot of familial traits. Thirdly, the few that aren't require spanish. Fourthly, of the few jobs which don't require a specific degree and are in my talent range almost all of them require 5-10 years of experience for your application to even be considered.

My talents come in political knowledge, geological knowledge, psychology, and team support. There is almost no one out there who cares for that sort of thing. The things that they do care about are things I simply don't understand. And yes, I've tried.

[Chiki]

Multiple reasons. Firstly the things I'm good at aren't the sort of things you'd be able to find a job for easily. Who wants someone who can detail the geological history of an area for their customer service position? Secondly all the job openings around me are suspiciously filled by people sharing a lot of familial traits. Thirdly, the few that aren't require spanish. Fourthly, of the few jobs which don't require a specific degree and are in my talent range almost all of them require 5-10 years of experience for your application to even be considered.

My talents come in political knowledge, geological knowledge, psychology, and team support. There is almost no one out there who cares for that sort of thing. The things that they do care about are things I simply don't understand. And yes, I've tried.

Then consider going back and studying something relatively useful to get a job if you can afford it.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Chiki

[Junkhead]

I'm not going to tell you something typical like, "be confident, be yourself". Don't be yourself, tell yourself you don't suck, even if you do. Also, I think one important problem you're having with women (when it comes to dating) is that you're not seeing them as people, as human beings. You know, rather than some higher-beings...some guys do this unintentionally, and it's why they tend to mess up when speaking to them- or even looking at them, for that matter.

I can't give you any dating advice, but I can tell you that as a solid starting point.

EDIT: Don't look for love, start with a relationship. People who look for love end up in deceit.

Edited March 30, 2015 by The Red Queen

[Esau of Isaac]

I'm not going to tell you something typical like, "be confident, be yourself". Don't be yourself, tell yourself you don't suck, even if you do. Also, I think one important problem you're having with women (when it comes to dating) is that you're not seeing them as people, as human beings. You know, rather than some higher-beings...some guys do this unintentionally, and it's why they tend to mess up when speaking to them- or even looking at them, for that matter.

I can't give you any dating advice, but I can tell you that as a solid starting point.

EDIT: Don't look for love, start with a relationship. People who look for love end up in deceit.

I have to echo and somewhat disagree with this. Always remind yourself that you're important, even if when you're serious you feel you aren't. Confidence and control are common factors that anyone, woman or man, is attracted to in a relationship. They generally want someone they can rely on. In that vein, I'm going to be a bit of the pessimist here and say that relationships are a lot of work. If you have a job, it's going to be like another job. If you have a job and go to school, good luck managing anything but the most empty fling. It's a lot of work physically, mentally, and for a man usually economically too. You say that you don't have a good paying job, Snowy, so right off the bat I'm going to say you're probably not going to be able to manage a relationship. I spend more money on my girlfriend than I do on myself. There are some women who prefer to break the norms and pay for food and such, but they are the minority, and generally a woman looks for a man's financial stability like a man looks for a woman's willingness to put out.

I know it's something the people of this site will crucify me for, but realize that a lot of relationships, while founded on mutual interest and appreciation for one another, can be very transaction-esque.

[Junkhead]

Regardless of one's own sentiment, one will always be special for oneself. Being stuck within your own conciousness, that's inevitable. And I don't think you're being pessimistic, you sound rather accurate. With that in mind, it makes me think not too many women are really worth it... (not trying to discourage you here, Snowy, if you have the chance, by all means)

Edited March 31, 2015 by The Red Queen

[MercyWalk]

Multiple reasons. Firstly the things I'm good at aren't the sort of things you'd be able to find a job for easily. Who wants someone who can detail the geological history of an area for their customer service position? Secondly all the job openings around me are suspiciously filled by people sharing a lot of familial traits. Thirdly, the few that aren't require spanish. Fourthly, of the few jobs which don't require a specific degree and are in my talent range almost all of them require 5-10 years of experience for your application to even be considered.

My talents come in political knowledge, geological knowledge, psychology, and team support. There is almost no one out there who cares for that sort of thing. The things that they do care about are things I simply don't understand. And yes, I've tried.

I was under the impression people went to college to learn new things to make themselves more marketable in the workforce, as well as to make connections to capitalize on opportunities

Are you putting limits on yourself? Not saying you are, but I know a lot of people who consider trade jobs "beneath" them and refuse to work labour, which pays very well here, not sure about America. Check out government statistics and what sectors need more workers, go to community college or something, education is there to teach you things you don't understand. Talk to a counselor or even people in industries you're interested in, see how they came up in it, you mentioned needing 5-10 years of experience, the people i've talked with grinded hard in areas that sounded like they had no relevance to the job they have now, but they marketed themselves to suit the job they finally liked.

I can't speak for the relationship problems because advice never really seems to help in terms of that stuff, i've always found it's more of a "searching yourself" issue where you gotta improve yourself by analyzing your own flaws.

I'd just prioritize yourself first, your work and health obviously need improvement as you've mentioned, and lets be honest, a good personality won't cut it when trying to find a date, let alone someone who is trying to look for a serious relationship. Sometimes you have to drop your standards as well, if you call yourself ugly would you expect someone who's "cute" to give you their time of day out of minor interactions?

Edited April 1, 2015 by Alb

[Chiki]

My talents come in political knowledge, geological knowledge, psychology, and team support.

Also, I don't want to be a dick but I'm trying to be honest here. Are you really sure you have any talent in any of those things? Don't just make up that you have talent for things when in reality you're just slightly interested in them. I'm sure what you said sounds a lot more impressive than it really is.

Just be honest with yourself and your future girl will appreciate you more for it.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Chiki

[Rapier]

Thirdly, the few that aren't require spanish. Fourthly, of the few jobs which don't require a specific degree and are in my talent range almost all of them require 5-10 years of experience for your application to even be considered.

Learning spanish seems more important now, then. By learning spanish you can sign up for these few jobs. By working on these jobs you will earn years of experience. Thus, two of your problems will disappear.

Doesn't your college offer jobs after a number of semesters? Mine does, for those who are halfway to the end of their courses.

[Life]

This has been a long time waiting.

The issue isn't that you don't know how to talk to women. The issue is a lack in social skills in general. This stems from no self-confidence, fear of the unknown... all that good stuff.

There's really only one way to fix this problem. You need to get off of the internet, go to a bar and start speaking to people. Even if you don't drink alcohol, still go to a bar rather than... anywhere else.

Bars are filled to people who are drinking simply to kill something inside, either major or minor. The general joke about alcohol is that it is the elixir of courage but in reality, it lowers a person's ability to keep his or her mouth shut. Most people sitting on a bar will talk your ear off about the most random shit that exists. Trust me, I work in nightlife and I know this for a fact.

What does this have to do with you? Simple. This is how you work on building social relationships. You simply need to keep a conversation going that has absolutely nothing to do with something that interests you. Again, alcohol will help but don't go overboard and get drunk. The important thing here is to understand that you can have conversations with people without giving a shit about how you look or if they care about the same things you do.

Take me, for example. I shit you not when I say this but my hair colour is currently sitting between blonde and green. Fact. Yet, I don't care if I look like a retarded leprechaun. I can still converse with people about things that I have absolutely no knowledge about whatsoever simply because I know how to keep a social relationship going. Dating is simply the next step after this one.

[deleted35362]

i know that this isn't very on-topic but um...60 dollars a week?? and i'm not understanding why burker king called you a bad investment when you applied there...? was it after you'd gone through with the interview?

[Snowy_One]

i know that this isn't very on-topic but um...60 dollars a week?? and i'm not understanding why burker king called you a bad investment when you applied there...? was it after you'd gone through with the interview?

I never GOT the interview. I submitted the application, waited, never got a call, but then three hispanic people who had not been on-staff before suddenly showed up and I had to ask them to speak English to place my order.

I LIVE IN THE NORTH EAST! I'm closer to Quebec than the Mexican border. How is it that I have SIX Spanish restaurants, two spanish markets, TWELVE spanish-speaking houses, and a travel agency so hispanic it doesn't even have english translations on its premises? There are two entire aisles in my grocery store that are supposed to be 'international' foods, but aside from some token sushi seaweed, it's all mexican food. It's not just my little corner of the city either as I've seen this going on several cities over. It's gotten so bad that I actually REFUSE to learn the language simply because I hate how invasive it feels.

Edit: And before people start, no, I'm not a racist. I just hate having hispanic music constantly blasted outside of my house, being turned down for not speaking spanish (the guy at Gamestop outright said that it was why they didn't hire me despite me already helping make sales there), and feeling pressured on all sides to speak it.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Snowy_One

[Chiki]

I never GOT the interview. I submitted the application, waited, never got a call, but then three hispanic people who had not been on-staff before suddenly showed up and I had to ask them to speak English to place my order.

I LIVE IN THE NORTH EAST! I'm closer to Quebec than the Mexican border. How is it that I have SIX Spanish restaurants, two spanish markets, TWELVE spanish-speaking houses, and a travel agency so hispanic it doesn't even have english translations on its premises? There are two entire aisles in my grocery store that are supposed to be 'international' foods, but aside from some token sushi seaweed, it's all mexican food. It's not just my little corner of the city either as I've seen this going on several cities over. It's gotten so bad that I actually REFUSE to learn the language simply because I hate how invasive it feels.

Edit: And before people start, no, I'm not a racist. I just hate having hispanic music constantly blasted outside of my house, being turned down for not speaking spanish (the guy at Gamestop outright said that it was why they didn't hire me despite me already helping make sales there), and feeling pressured on all sides to speak it.

Seriously, just look at this post. You seem to be kinda whiny and obnoxious tbh (not just from this post, but others too). If you want to go after a girl you have to really improve your attitude.

[Rapier]

It is perfectly normal to feel like this when a foreign culture is forced onto yours, but yeah, I recommend trying to be more realist and seeing things in a practical level.

That aside, learning spanish will give you an edge in whichever job you may pursue. Being close to a lot of spanish speaking countries and having lots of hispanic immigrants increase the demand for a workforce that knows how to speak spanish. This also happens in my country, an english speaker has much more chances of getting a job than a non english speaker. Will you let yourself be hindered because of your bias? Is it more important than getting a job, improving yourself as a person etc.?

Edited April 2, 2015 by Rapier

[Snowy_One]

Seriously, just look at this post. You seem to be kinda whiny and obnoxious tbh (not just from this post, but others too). If you want to go after a girl you have to really improve your attitude.

I'm sorry, but it really gets me mad to know that I got passed over for, not only my dream job, but several others in favor for people who only barely speak English simply because they can speak Spanish. I used to actually know it and even passed my Spanish course in college with a B, but I can't really speak it beyond a most basic, crude, level.