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FE6 HM Tier List


Colonel M
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On the subject of Echidna, maybe she could drop but it's a series of difficult comparisons since it's all basically utility units before Shin, though I'm still not seeing Echidna a tier above him, so she could move down or him up.

Though looking at things I'm not sure Gonzo should be a tier above Shin either. Gonzo has some leveling issues because he doesn't really double until post-promotion, and has very significant Hit problems. Plus Gonzo has one of the worst promo item situations in the game. It's really hard to deny Rutger or Dieck the first/second Hero Crest, which means Gonzo has to deal with Lot/Oujay/Fir/Geese for the last Crest, or wait until the Secret Shop. Echidna doesn't take an item, and Shin might as well not take one for how crappy the other candidates are.

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Well, the reason was that if the player is using Zeiss, he's going to feed him more kills. It isn't as difficult as one things (his Atk scores are high enough to deal decent damage despite it showing up as a 3HKO). As for Garret, keep in mind what I said later: he's doubled by a lot more of the promoted enemies than Zeiss is, even without the Speedwing on him. Garret would need to swallow quite a few resources just to stay intact from being doubled still. I guess one can agree Zeiss < Garret though, but at least we can agree no tier difference, no?

My comparison wasn't that far off as even +1 Level does little for Garret (hint: it just helps his chances of not being doubled by the FalconKnight more).

Feeding him what kills? Everything is dead but Narshen and Douglas in Chapter 16 by the time you get Zeiss and then Zeiss is horrible horrendous garbage in Chapter 16x due to long-range tomes, tons of magic users in general, and status staves. Garret is probably 20/4 by the time Zeiss joins instead of 20/2 and then both are horrible in the next chapter, but Zeiss is more horrible. Garret gets doubled sometimes, I guess. You can avoid such enemies and situations pretty easily if you don't go to Sacae, and even in Sacae a Speedwing could stop that indeed, and that's worth less than a promotional item.

I agree that there is no tier gap, but Garret should be slightly above Zeiss.

On the subject of Echidna, maybe she could drop but it's a series of difficult comparisons since it's all basically utility units before Shin, though I'm still not seeing Echidna a tier above him, so she could move down or him up.

Though looking at things I'm not sure Gonzo should be a tier above Shin either. Gonzo has some leveling issues because he doesn't really double until post-promotion, and has very significant Hit problems. Plus Gonzo has one of the worst promo item situations in the game. It's really hard to deny Rutger or Dieck the first/second Hero Crest, which means Gonzo has to deal with Lot/Oujay/Fir/Geese for the last Crest, or wait until the Secret Shop. Echidna doesn't take an item, and Shin might as well not take one for how crappy the other candidates are.

I agree with the Gonzales stuff. Having ~60 Hit on the lowest Evd unit in Chapter 11 = rofl. Promotional item situations need to be considered more over in these parts indeed.

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Gonzo doubles and borderline ORKOs Steel Axe fighters in 11E. Even with ~61 disp hit, he's still doing it half the time. On chapter 13, an 8/0 Gonzales can ORKO a 38 HP/11 def Steel Lance cav with a Killer Axe (30 atk after WTA, 12 AS vs. 8 AS) at about 70 disp hit. He probably will have gained more levels than that, though; 12/0 Gonzales with maxed str has a chance at cleanly ORKOing (2HKOing) the WKs on the map if they have 38 HP/13 def or less. He'll also have enough AS by then to ORKO Javelin cavs. I don't see how you can claim that Gonzo has leveling issues, Cynthia, when you also claimed that Shin didn't have leveling issues and he starts at the same base level while being locked to 2-range.

I'm not even sure if Rutger has a better claim to one of the pre-chapter 16 Hero Crests. Rutger gets 30 crit and marginally better atk and durability and is still stuck at 1 range. Gonzo gets about the same, except he already has 1-2 range.

I think Echidna can stand to drop. Her durability is terrible.

Edited by dondon151
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What is this nonsense about Gonzales having levelling and double attacking woes? If he has the former, it's far less than most other unpromoted characters since he does have the potential to kill in one round and/or shot in almost no time flat. I think some people need to actually look at their enemy samples some more.

I think Echidna can stand to drop. Her durability is terrible.

Why? She's going to be the only character who gets a quick S in axes apart from Gonzales and maybe Geese if he's used. If her durability besides the supports with Gonzales and Lalum granting her extra defensive benefits doesn't satisfy for some reason, she can hold onto Armads in open spaces and enemies might well refrain entirely from targetting her over.....say, someone with equal or possibly worse defense, like one of Roy's cavaliers/paladins. This applies as late as Bern.

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If you can't hit the opponent to kill it, you can't gain the Exp from it. It wouldn't be as much of a problem if Gonzo was doubling, but as it stands he has to have someone weaken a unit (to about half), then hope to hit it. Shin generally deals more damage overall due to doubling, so he doesn't need as strong of a weakener(except to Knights or something, but I don't think there are even any of them on the Isles).

Also, while Shin can finish off almost any unit. Gonzo has almost no chance against anything holding a sword or on any type of terrain that gives Avo. Gonzo's fine pre-promotion against lance users I guess, but he struggles offensively against other unit types. 61 disp hit against a weighed down enemy is not very good IMO.

As for the whole 1-2 range thing, that's not a very good reason to Crest Gonzo above Rutger when Gonzo is pulling less than 50 hit with a Hand Axe.

Edited by -Cynthia-
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And I think you two are crossing the border into whining about it. Gonzales is both double attacking and one-round/shotting very easily once he's recruited. The fact that both can't be said for most people starting on ch. 11 means that an accuracy price attached can be more than swallowed. 60s range with an iron axe without a weapon triangle advantage is not that agonizing to work with. I don't see anyone carping wildly about how Lance and Alan fare at hurling javelins accurately, which is not that well, since they don't have particularly high skill (Lance doesn't until after promotion) and get only half hit from their support.

Shin has a worse class - the fact that it's mounted doesn't change the fact it's still the worst mounted class. Not to mention a terrible enemy phase before promotion simply due to being locked to bows. Possibly afterwards if he's using a bow and nobody else is free to trade a sword to the top of his inventory (and he has to work his way up from shoddy iron/slim). This is like Percival/Miledy vs. Rutger only more pronounced.

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Gonzales is better than Shin. I'm not arguing about that. I just don't like his Hit issues and they can't really be ignored. It's a negative for the big guy. Sharing a promotional item with two amazing units that are better than him and have big level leads doesn't help, either. He's still good, though.

Btw, My 15/0 Dieck has 10 Str and 11 Def right now. Also 6 Res. Wtf @ that shit.

Edit: 20/1 Hero Dieck...with 11 Res...

Edited by Inui
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Feeding him what kills? Everything is dead but Narshen and Douglas in Chapter 16 by the time you get Zeiss and then Zeiss is horrible horrendous garbage in Chapter 16x due to long-range tomes, tons of magic users in general, and status staves. Garret is probably 20/4 by the time Zeiss joins instead of 20/2 and then both are horrible in the next chapter, but Zeiss is more horrible. Garret gets doubled sometimes, I guess. You can avoid such enemies and situations pretty easily if you don't go to Sacae, and even in Sacae a Speedwing could stop that indeed, and that's worth less than a promotional item.

Maybe if you read the post, you'd realize Zeiss was base Level in Chapter 17.

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Assuming this is efficiency, Zealot and Marcus both need to go up. I've argued both of these in the past and I mostly got the "no reponse, list unchanged" deal, especially on Zealot, so I'll start with him.

Zealot is not equal to most units when he joins, either.

9-10 Lance, C's w/ Roy and Alan: 10.4 Str, 12.25 Spd----27 Hp, 8.7 Def, 2.25 Res, 39.45 Avo

Let's see, there's the best unit in the game on Ch 7. Here's Zealot:

10 Str, 13 Spd----35 Hp, 11 Def, 7 Res, 31 Avo (+ move, axes, weapon ranks, con)

You get a second Silver Lance in Ch 6 and Zealot is one of only two units who will have A Lances right now (and right now you also happen to have two Silver Lances).

Now let's compare these two on Ch 7's enemies, starting with offense.

Steel Lance Knight: 26 Hp/12 Def

vs Lance w/ Iron: 5 x 2 (3RKO)

vs Zealot w/ Iron Axe/Silver/Hammer: 7 x 2/12 x 2 (2RKO both ways, but Silver Lance's massive damage can make the difference on whether it takes one or two extra units to finish it off)/23 x 2 (ORKO)

Javelin Knight: 28 Hp, 12 Def

vs Lance w/ Javelin: 4 x 2 (4RKO)

vs Zealot w/ Hand Axe: 6 x 2 (3RKO)

Iron Sword Merc: 28 Hp, 7 Def, 11 AS

vs Lance w/ Iron: 11 x 1 (3RKO)

vs Zealot w/ Silver: 18 x 1 (2RKO)

Iron Bow Archer: 30 Hp, 6 Def, 8 AS

vs Lance w/ Iron/Javelin: 11 x 2/10 x 1 (2RKO/3RKO)

vs Zealot w/ Silver/Javelin: 18 x 2/10 x 2 (ORKO/2RKO)

Javelin Cavalier: 31 Hp, 8 Def, 7 AS

vs Lance w/ Iron/Javelin: 9 x 2/8 x 1 (2RKO/4RKO)

vs Zealot w/ Silver/Hand Axe/Halberd: 16 x 2/10 x 2/33 x 1 (ORKO/2RKO/OHKO)

Javelin loldier: 33 Hp, 2 Def

vs Lance w/ Iron: 15 x 2 (2RKO)

vs Zealot w/ Iron Axe: 17 x 2 (ORKO)

Mage: 23 Hp, 4 Def, 8 AS

vs Lance w/ Javelin: 12 x 1 (2RKO)

vs Zealot w/ Javelin: 12 x 2 (ORKO)

And, dun dun dun......

Steel Lance Dragon Knight: 34 Hp, 13 Def

vs Lance w/ Iron/Javelin: 4 x 2/3 x 2 (5RKO/6RKO)

vs Zealot w/ Iron Axe/Hand Axe/Silver: 6 x 2/5 x 2/11 x 2 (3RKO/4RKO/2RKO)

Zealot kills in atleast 1 less round than Lance against all enemies, and in most cases he actually doesn't even need the Silver Lance to do it, that's like icing on the cake (2RKO vs 5RKO on those Dragon Knights).

And I won't bother to give the numbers on defense, it's clear that Zealot is considerably better at that, too.

Now for fun, instead of comparing him to the top ranked unit, let's compare him against an upper mid.

6 Lugh: 6 Mag, 8.5 Spd----18.5 Hp, 3.7 Def, 6.5 Res, 23.8 Avo

Should I rly even bother? It's not that I'm unwilling to give lots of stats and numbers on how much better Zealot is here, it's just that it's unnecessary as long as you're not blind. The Dragon Knights OHKO Lugh, while Zealot is 3HKO'd @ ~31% hit, and takes 10 rounds to die on average. Mercs on this chapter can get 12 Spd, so if Lugh winds up with 8, he is ORKO'd. Meanwhile the same Merc would do 2 damage to Zealot. Lugh's offense vs Knights, with a 12 Def/Res gap, is nearly the same as Zealot's Silver Lance offense against them (actually Zealot is still doing more damage, though).

It's clear that Zealot is definitely valuable when he first appears, and should remain useful throughout the Isles at worst. He can bust out Killer Axes 2 chaps before sword/lance units get their Killers, and assuming that his doubling remains steady, Lance doesn't catch up with his base Hp/Def until after promotion, so he'll obviously still be good for quite a long time.

Lugh is ranked even lower than Lot, whom I used for my Marcus comparison, and not likely to even be used as filler material until Gonzo/Echidna/etc start to join. I hardly think a tier gap in Lugh's favor to be justified.

I don't have enemy stats for Ch 14 yet, but I shouldn't need them, it's blatantly obvious that Cecilia's jointime performance is a joke compared to this. If being a 3rd or 4th string healer for half the game outweighs what Zealot has, then I'm gonna go make a topic arguing L'Arachel to at least the top of lower mid on the FE8 list.

If people seriously think Cecilia is more useful from 14-final than Zealot is from 7-13, then push Cecilia to upper mid too imo. Either way I think it's clear that Zealot should be there. He has a strong positive contribution for a section of the game; indeed it looks like he's your absolute best unit when he joins, so he should be on the upper half of the list atleast.

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I'd love to see Marcus and Zealot go up and I've always found both to be underrated. I find them useful until the desert chapter. After that, they should probably get the bench, but they provided tons of awesome before than and NEVER EVER EVER EVER suck if you bench them before they do, lol.

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And you had Garret at only 20/2? :wtf:

What else did I say? "It barely mattered". Garret was winning marginally despite not having many levels until later on, which he would've GOTTEN levels, but not to the point where he's something like --/15 Endgame or whatnot. The main problem later on was his AS, which can't really be fixed with levels. He simply has too low of a growth in that department.

Edited by Colonel M
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I don't know about that. If you're talking about Chapter 17, he should probably be 20/5 or so (EXP gains in this game aren't horrible like FE 7) since he's not bad while he's around and can actually do things like nuke Paladins/armors and bust out Killer Axes. That's potentially +2 Str and +1 Skl/Spd/Def which matters for that guy.

Edited by Inui
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And I think you two are crossing the border into whining about it. Gonzales is both double attacking and one-round/shotting very easily once he's recruited. The fact that both can't be said for most people starting on ch. 11 means that an accuracy price attached can be more than swallowed. 60s range with an iron axe without a weapon triangle advantage is not that agonizing to work with. I don't see anyone carping wildly about how Lance and Alan fare at hurling javelins accurately, which is not that well, since they don't have particularly high skill (Lance doesn't until after promotion) and get only half hit from their support.

Shin has a worse class - the fact that it's mounted doesn't change the fact it's still the worst mounted class. Not to mention a terrible enemy phase before promotion simply due to being locked to bows. Possibly afterwards if he's using a bow and nobody else is free to trade a sword to the top of his inventory (and he has to work his way up from shoddy iron/slim). This is like Percival/Miledy vs. Rutger only more pronounced.

I'm also not suggesting Shin> Gonzales, but like Echidna I'm not seeing the tier gap, especially on Sacae.

You seem to have some misconceptions about Gonzales' earlygame performance. Let's take a sample of 11A, which is a favo to Gonzales btw, since he's worse in B route.

6/0 Gonzales(Iron Axe)

43 HP 25 Atk 11 AS 7 Def 1 Res 84 Hit

Enemies range from 8-11 AS on 11A, so Gonzales is doubling extremely rarely, IE barely Steel Axe Fighters, who are not terribly common on this map. 25 Atk isn't OHKOing anything either.

Enemies range from 25-35 Avo generally, so Gonzales is generally in the 50-60 hit range, which is pretty unreliable. Lances do show up more in Ch13, which helps him eventually.

He's not especialy durable either, despite his high HP. An Iron Axe Fighter has 17-19 Str, which if the wield Iron Axes hits him for 18 to 20 damage. Some enemies have more damaging weapons or use magic so some combinations will 2RKO him and almost any combination of 3 attacks will kill him.

10/0 Shin (Iron Bow)

33 HP 18 Atk 16 AS 8 Def 2 Res 133 Hit

Shin doubles everything, as opposed to almost nothing, hits almost all of the time, and doesn't take counters, which I would say is more important than Gonzo's lackluster Enemy Phase at this point. He may have an Atk deficit, but he can switch to Steel for more damage and still outspeed Gonzo, or Short/Killer for more crit.

Gonzales does get better over time, since he does have a high Spd growth, and his durability sort of sorts itslef out (caps HP, but low Def growth). The hit issues remain however, since Gonzo only has a 15% Skl growth.

In theory, Gonzales could fix his Hit thorugh supports, but his supports aren't very good. Lilina and Garret are fast, but Lilina and Garret are pretty poor units. Dayan/Bartre/Treck are average at best and are 1+1. Echidna is Gonzo's best option, but considering it's 1+1, it probably won't help him much overall.

@CATS Apprently there was a post detailing Noah>Zealot, so you might want to do a comparison between the two of them.

Edited by -Cynthia-
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@CATS Apprently there was a post detailing Noah>Zealot, so you might want to do a comparison between the two of them.

20/1 Noah-39.57 HP, 13.9 Str, 14.85 Skill, 14.9 Speed, 11.2 Luck, 12.9 Def, 5.3 Res

6 Zealot-38.75 HP, 11.25 Str, 13 Skill, 14 Speed, 5.75 Luck, 12.5 Def, 7.75 Res, superior ranks, no promotion item.

Quite minimal leads for someone who hasn't had promotion bonuses up all the way until chapter 16x with an underleveled Zealot (only 5 levels in 13 chapters?). I think that ends the discussion pretty thoroughly, though do let me know how Noah can outdo this when already he has ranks, a promotion item, and effort getting to level 20 stacked against him.

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Noah is a simple issue. It boils down to the fact that Noah is a lower mid, i.e. completely mediocre and unremarkable, unpromoted combat unit. There are at least 20 other units above him on the list and he doesn't even manage upper mid; he's clearly not worth training and using long-term, while Zealot has significant use for a period of time right after he joins (during which he is much better than Noah, obviously). It's the same case as something like Bartre vs Harken. Bartre isn't worth using long-term, and Harken has significant use for at least a small portion of the game, so Harken contributes more.

The post showing Noah > Zealot was assuming that both were used long-term throughout the entire game and that Noah is promoted and such, even though that's clearly not a good idea. If this is the mentality then if anything Marcus should be lower than he is, since he's much worse than almost any trained unpromoted units in the lategame (Lugh, Lot, etc) even if it's not at all worthwhile to actually train up those mediocre units and give them lots of resources and a deployment slot.

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I'm not sure it's really such a simple issue, Noah has pretty clear leads post-promotion, so it boils down to whether Zealot's leads over Noah before promotion are greater than Noah's overall leads post promotion.

If we're simply going to discount any characters who require more effort put into them without looking at the long term benefits, we don't have much reason to have Lance and Alan two tiers above Marcus. Lance/Alan vs. Marcus and Noah vs. Zealot are pretty similar sitautions in my mind, though since Noah joins later it's harder to justify raising him and the end product is inferior, though Zealot's team is much stronger when he joins than the Marcus's team as well.

Edited by -Cynthia-
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Lance/Alan are different because they're actually really good and worth using for the whole game. Noah is clearly not better than the average or the alternatives and not contributing anything notable during the lategame. If you don't train up Noah then you're not missing out on anything for the lategame because you have other units that can be trained instead and perform atleast as well as he would; with Lance/Alan this isn't the case. If you remove them then you're clearly worse off since there's no one else as good as they are to fill the spot left behind.

It's exactly the same as the reasons why Erk > Pent but Pent > Canas on the FE7 list.

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6/0 Gonzales(Iron Axe)

43 HP 25 Atk 11 AS 7 Def 1 Res 84 Hit

Enemies range from 8-11 AS on 11A, so Gonzales is doubling extremely rarely, IE barely Steel Axe Fighters, who are not terribly common on this map. 25 Atk isn't OHKOing anything either.

Fighters have 11 con and lose 4 AS from Steel Axe. I see exactly 1 12 speed fighter on this map, 7 11 speed fighters, and 4 10 speed fighters. 7 of the 12 fighters are locked to 15 WT axes (6 Steel Axe, 1 Halberd). They have 40 HP/5 def, which is exactly ORKO'd by 25 atk Gonzo. The Steel Axe guys have 15-20 avo, reducing Gonzo's displayed hit on them to 65-70.

He's not especialy durable either, despite his high HP. An Iron Axe Fighter has 17-19 Str, which if the wield Iron Axes hits him for 18 to 20 damage. Some enemies have more damaging weapons or use magic so some combinations will 2RKO him and almost any combination of 3 attacks will kill him.

If base Gonzo has 43 HP/7 def, that survives 2 attacks from a 28 atk Steel Axe fighter, and that's about as high as they go on this map. For the record, 5/0 Zealot has 38 HP/12.2 def and is 3RKO'd by Steel Axe fighters, whether or not he's using swords (and using swords in 11E has the innate disadvantage of not being able to counter half of the fighters or any of the archers and shamans). 8/0 Marcus has 36.2 HP/10.05 def, which does not survive 2 attacks without WTA. Any one of your more mortal creatures (like, say, 15/0 Dieck with 35 HP/8 def) is biting the dust guaranteed after 2 attacks from these powerhouses.

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Cynthia really hasn't a clue, does she? This isn't advanced calc. It's called checking and contrasting your stats on both sides of this war game. If not, promptly brace yourself for your bullshit to be shot down. Those fighters also have lulzy displayed hit on a base Gonzales around 40. In his eyes, they really fucking suck. Anyway, none of this is delving into the fact he'll be able to one-shot all the reinforcement cavaliers near the end of the chapter with displayed hit verging on 60, and double the ones equipping javelins with that same weapon (hardly improbable since they travel in two packs, outrange the bulk of your army, and can more than hold their own against the bulk stat-wise....you want to lure each in close enough with all the houses and terrain cramping everything so every one of your units can go to town on them desperate-like the following turn).

She hasn't provided any sort of argument as to why Shin would be deployed in the previous chapter, 10, the only reason his level would be as high as that same number. Enemies swarm you for most of a map with a relatively cramped vertical path, the vast majority of which he can't counter on the enemy phase.

Edited by Blutritter
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She hasn't provided any sort of argument as to why Shin would be deployed in the previous chapter, 10, the only reason his level would be as high as that same number. Enemies swarm you for most of a map with a relatively cramped vertical path, the vast majority of which he can't counter on the enemy phase.

Isn't that reason enough, though? If you have 2 spaces to attack from (one being on a bridge, and the next being behind the bridge), Shin would obviously be a better choice than some other unit with a Javelin or a Hand Axe just by virtue of far superior hit.

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Cynthia really hasn't a clue, does she? This isn't advanced calc. It's called checking and contrasting your stats on both sides of this war game. If not, promptly brace yourself for your bullshit to be shot down.

Tier debating is a war game? Anyway, you never actually addressed the core issue, which was Gonzales's hit, so calling bullshit is pretty ridiculous. Doubling like 7 guys on the map with 60 display hit is what I said in the first place. I appreciate dondon stating the exact numbers, but it still does not constitute good performance IMO. WRT Gonzo's durability, it is better when you consider their Hit isn't so good, but his counters are often meh due to missing, so he probably won't see much enemy phase regardless.

Those fighters also have lulzy displayed hit on a base Gonzales around 40. In his eyes, they really fucking suck. Anyway, none of this is delving into the fact he'll be able to one-shot all the reinforcement cavaliers near the end of the chapter with displayed hit verging on 60, and double the ones equipping javelins with that same weapon (hardly improbable since they travel in two packs, outrange the bulk of your army, and can more than hold their own against the bulk stat-wise....you want to lure each in close enough with all the houses and terrain cramping everything so every one of your units can go to town on them desperate-like the following turn).

Is Gonzales just going to hang out and wait for reinforcements to arrive? If we're trying to clear the map quickly (IE efficiency), I think clearing the map in <10 turns is quite reasonable. I don't even see these reinforcements on this chapter, and it's not like I'm some uber speedrunner or anything. And again, 60 disp hit is still very unreliable.

As a general note, let's not forget B route Gonzales. We cannot assume A route all the time, and B route Gonzales has even more issues in general.

She hasn't provided any sort of argument as to why Shin would be deployed in the previous chapter, 10, the only reason his level would be as high as that same number. Enemies swarm you for most of a map with a relatively cramped vertical path, the vast majority of which he can't counter on the enemy phase.

Chokepoints favor ranged units. We can set up any melee unit in front, then Shin fires over their heads, which is better than other melee units who just end up blocked, it's not rocket science. Also, when we debate units we assume they are in play (except in sitautions with extreme unit slot restrictions, but that's not the case here), please consult the tier list faq before posting further, it will probably help you come off as a little more informed and a little less...deficient.

Edited by -Cynthia-
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Tier debating is a war game? Anyway, you never actually addressed the core issue, which was Gonzales's hit, so calling bullshit is pretty ridiculous. Doubling like 7 guys on the map with 60 display hit is what I said in the first place. I appreciate dondon stating the exact numbers, but it still does not constitute good performance IMO. WRT Gonzo's durability, it is better when you consider their Hit isn't so good, but his counters are often meh due to missing, so he probably won't see much enemy phase regardless.

Well, I did say 65-70 disp hit, which is quite a bit higher than 60 due to double RN shenanigans (it increases 68.4 real to around 79.8 real). 16/0 Lot, for example (a very liberal estimate), has 23 base hit plus 2 or 5 depending on his Thany support, while Gonzo has around 18 base hit. If Lot's level wasn't an overestimate, he'd be comfortably doubling the 7 AS fighters as well, except he'd still be losing atk by 2 assuming B Dieck and B Thany. But realistically, Lot would probably be around 13/0 at best, so he'd be losing atk by at least 3, and he'd be either tied or losing AS. The only thing he actually wins (aside from some hit) is defense, which is offset by Gonzo's HP win. So if Gonzo is doing at least as well as Lot, I think that qualifies as decent performance. There's guys like Noah who need to be 14/0 to double 7 AS fighters (not exactly a tough feat), but their per hit damage is still considerably worse than Gonzo's, not even being able to 2HKO, which matters if we're talking about units ganging up to kill enemies. Say we had 9/0 Shin @ Iron Bow (17.2 atk) against a 40 HP/5 def fighter. Shin does 24/40 per round of combat. 14/0 Noah can't even muster the necessary 21 atk to finish off that fighter in one blow, coming up about 2 atk short (19.1 atk after WTA).

You're focusing too much on 1 chapter. Gonzales is decent until promotion, when he gets a free 10 disp hit (equivalent to around 16 true) and monstrous offense and defense.

As a general note, let's not forget B route Gonzales. We cannot assume A route all the time, and B route Gonzales has even more issues in general.

Well, I don't see a need to address B route Gonzales unless we're specifically assuming something else that requires either the presence of Elphin or Bartre, and neither have been involved so far. I suppose if we were comparing him to Fir or something it would be significant.

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