AM/PM 2 Mafia - GAME OVER

[Sunwoo]

Real postgame coming later in the week. It'll probably be mostly, if not completely, my thoughts unless I have time to collaborate with j00 and eclipse.

[Sunwoo]

Postgame Part 1

For those of you who are not familiar with the original concept of AM/PM, I wanted to design a game with a relatively large number of players but where the players only interacted with a limited number of people. The day/night system was also designed to make the people who were stuck in each cycle a lot more active and talk to one another more often (although the activity was still pretty lol anyway). The first AM/PM only had roles I felt were absolutely necessary, such as a vigilante and backup vigilante and a town-sided persuader. This time, now that I knew that the concept could work, I decided to add in more roles.

There were persuaders on both sides for vote control, although this time they would both shut off after a certain point. Elie could only persuade during the night and never used his role for reasons unknown, while Makaze could persuade during the day but at a specific window of time. The vigilante was limited this time, so that the vig would have to be more conservative or careful with their shots. The mislynch gain and cop mostly existed as extra roles to give town a bit more power in case they floundered horribly. Instead of a backup vig, there was an amnesiac who could take up the abilities of any dead town role. The ITP was there just because it could.

The phase swappers were put in mostly on suggestion of Prims from the first AM/PM. We put restrictions on the phase swappers so that they couldn't just target the same people over and over again, but this at least gave people the chance to participate in the other phases and talk to other people. Everyone had a courier or announce to communicate, although in retrospect I wish I would have made the word count unlimited with a limited number of couriers/announces.

I think that aside from making scum a bit underpowered (BBM was an alt-night role cop when the game had enough players for him to be full-time, Gaius should've had a full-time role instead of just being Marth's backup) the setup was mostly all right. But I also realized too late that AM/PM is a bit of a breakable setup just in its structure. Therefore, I don't think I'll be running it again.

Postgame Awards

Funniest player-to-role correspondence: the eclipse role, because Rapier pretended to be Dio (and eclipse is a Kakyoin fangirl), and Snike is eclipse's rival

Best roleplaying: Snike

[4/16/15 11:20:54 PM] Brad: "Rapier: 500% scum, would turbo. I legit had a case on him that I had to throw out when Poly showed up and I subbed in. Ugh." - is this eclipse

Best shot: Poly, for shooting Strawman and BBM

Funniest night action: Strawman's ascetic being broken on the night he was vigged

Best luck: Junko, for breaking Strawman's ascetic and causing his death, which led to Junko being obvtown

Worst luck: Eury, for that D1 lynch, Strawman, for having his ascetic broken on the night he was vigged, or Mancer because people didn't understand his role

Greatest wall poster: Everyone, except for the people who don't wall post

Most improved: Makaze, I think you know why

Luckiest turbo: Elieson, for actually being scum

Most ironic statement: Prims, for this

Prims, on 16 Apr 2015 - 07:04 AM, said:

yo I've been busy making up a test but I'm here now if anybody has any last minute questions before scum shoots me N1.

Pfffffft

Edited May 18, 2015 by Sunwoo

[Refa]

Awww, no awards. Still pretty hype for Part 2, though!

[Sunwoo]

Postgame Part 2

pleasedon'tbemafiapleasedon'tbemafiapleasedon'tbemafiaaaa--

aww yis.

Snike put a lot of effort into this game, and I was surprised at how well he remembered the rules of the game. His reads were not the most spot-on and he tunneled Mancer a bit, but by the time the game started thinning out he was on the ball. Overall he did well, just needs to practice up on getting more reliable reads. Sorry I fucked up and got you subbed out.

STOP MESSAGING ME

Refa somehow ended up being the town leader of this game, for reasons I am not sure of. People just kept on sending him messages, and when people who sent him confidential information didn’t die he just became obvtown. He relayed other players’ messages in the thread and did his best to distract scum from the real town vig. His reads generally improved further on in the game.

Locke is bae.

Lord Gaius did well for his first game as scum. He put in as much effort as he could in making his reads seem genuine, and it got him under the radar for quite some time. His activity kind of declined later in the game, which I think hurt him, but the bigger problem was that he just got PoE’d out. In future games, I suggest being a bit more active and keeping your effort levels consistent.

Is it bad that I want to vote no lynch because I'm too sleepy to try and figure this shit out?

SB got shot because scum thought that he was vig. His actual content wasn’t always on point and he wasn’t the towniest-looking person in the game, but he wasn’t mislynched and took a shot for someone with a more important role. I suppose the most I can suggest is to just try to find more reliable ways to read the other players?

are you KIDDING me??? NO ONE targeted me last night??

i fuckin hate you

Via put enough effort into scum hunting and looking townie on D1, but once they had been revealed as the ITP they were more focused on achieving their wincon more so than they were scum hunting, but I can’t really fault them for that. They played to their wincon so I don’t really have anything more to add, except that in most cases people won’t use their roles to get an ITP who won’t benefit them directly out of the game, so just be careful when claiming it.

Also, fun fact: if the third action they were targeted with was a kill, they would've won.

...well, shit, I am a literal idiot. I knew this. *facedesk*

Terrador had a lot of passion, but his reads weren’t exactly the best and I think he mostly tunneled on townies. Being able to read people is an acquired skill, so I don’t fault him on this other than to just practice picking up scum tells. Also, I think there was a part in the game where Terrador and Blitz were in a 1-v-1 that wasn’t really there. Be careful to make sure you’re not tunneling on someone without reason. Step back and reevaluate your reads, because no matter how confident you are there is always a possibility you can be wrong. And if you’re wrong, you can put yourself in some serious trouble in following phases.

Wow. You guys can't read me for shit.

Makaze put a lot of effort into the game and just had an overall better performance than the last game I remember from him (British mafia). His reads weren’t always the most accurate in the beginning and he had quite a few people suspecting him, but I think that just takes more practice interacting with people in mafia. He was able to adjust his reads as needed later on in the game, so props for that. My only real advice (other than join more games to get practice) is to be careful that your tone doesn’t put you in conflict with other players. People are less likely to listen to you when they’re annoyed.

I don't see the fuss over Makaze people made right after his(?) post. Seems like y'all just disagreed and got up in a hissy. I read his reaction to the votes well.

Strawman was just unlucky, especially with getting his ascetic broken. Had he been more active or put more effort in his posts he might’ve survived longer. Just try to be more involved in the game.

I really want to lynch him though but he's like probably town.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Shinori had some decent opinions when he actually gave them, even if they were not very accurate, but his problem was that he didn’t have a lot of content or posts to go off on. Also died on the same night that he scanned Lord Gaius. If you’re going to join mafia games, try to post more game-related content so people can have better reads on you.

Night players coming in a bit.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Sunwoo

[Sunwoo]

Whoo- I'm awaaaaaaaake. Hi again gaiz.

@BBM: NO. SENPAI PLS. I WAS TOO LAZY TO PUT SHIT IN A WORD DOC TO KEEP A HOLD ON WORD COUNT. ;A;

Time to commit sudoku.... T_T

I’m not quite sure why Eury was lynched. None of her posts jumped out to me as being scummy, but she actually had very little posts. Maybe that contributed to her lynch, even if it’s not really a good reason to lynch someone for not saying much on D1. I think my only advice is to post more often, even if it means you have to break up your walls and make smaller, more frequent posts.

yo I've been busy making up a test but I'm here now if anybody has any last minute questions before scum shoots me N1.

Prims had a bit of suspicion on him early on, but he had an early scum read on Elie. He was active and talked a lot on N1, posting his opinions on the other players and asking people questions. Too bad he died early for being Prims.

No longer cringing in pain

Elie caught a terrible case of IRL, which made him unable to post. He literally had one content post that didn’t really say much and got turbolynched for being inactive. He also never used his persuade, and I’m not sure why he didn’t use it on either N0 or N1.

good post; I didn't read it

BBM played scum better than he did in the first AM/PM, and didn’t get scumread by a majority of the game on N0. He was actually pretty good about giving content and not being super defensive, until he actually did get defensive. However, his flip gave Marth a bit of pass for some time so that was a thing? Your biggest thing when your scum is that you get more defensive and seem more focused on survival, that is your scum tell. So try to let up on that.

btw, useless setupspecs, if Shinori is town, then I am pretty sure we pulled an sf (by lynching out doc)

Blitz is Blitz and was in the line of fire for quite some time, but managed to survive the entire game. When he was around, he gave thoughts and opinions and reads. He had to defend himself a lot because he was on quite a few people’s scum lists, but he was able to both put up his defense and give reads on people at the same time. Just try to state your thoughts more coherently so that people can’t misunderstand you. Almost got fucked over because people forgot he was a night player who got kicked into D1 and was nearly lynched for not saying anything on D2.

And AW YEAH YOU MISLYNCHED ME LIKE THE TRUE MISLYNCH THAT I AM! (I think the dayvig part is over exaggerated, btw. I've only rolled dayvig twice, although I flaked both times.)

I'm gonna post content soon but I'm currently giggling at that role PM.

Marth changed his name, so I can’t get to his ISO ;/ Anyway, he was the last scum lynched so he did a pretty good job of slipping under the radar until he was PoE’d out. I think that he did well until scum got rolled and he lost motivation. If you don’t feel like surrendering, putting up effort until the very end is the best thing to do when your team is being rolled.

Reading is not hard, BBM...

Mancer had people misinterpreting his role quite a bit, and the people who didn’t misread his role thought that it couldn’t exist. He used his couriers quite well and posted a lot of his reads and thoughts. Sometimes, your reads can be a bit nitpicky and you pick up on the tiniest things and find them scummy, so try not to look too deeply into details. Also, whenever you feel frustrated, step back and don’t post. Your play tends to deteriorate when you get upset, which leads to you not playing as well as you can. Try to play with a clear, unbiased mind.

I actually did not notice that Terradork was making announcements.

Poly was actually motivated for once and he took out two scum with his shots. I can’t even really fault his Terra shot because with Terra’s flip people stopped focusing on him and could look at other prospects. His trust in Refa was well founded, and he did a good job of staying out of sight until he was out of shots. I think in the future putting more effort into posts would help, but for this game he did well enough just not subbing out.

(I actually forgot to read the bottom of mancer's post so that post came off as null to me at first. I need to stop multitasking while playing mafia >_>)

Junko was declared obvtown after he broken Strawman’s ascetic and contributed to his death. His reads weren’t the most accurate and he forgot to submit an action on N1, but he was participating and giving thoughts. I think he was able to get away with a lot more because he was obvtown early on, but in the future just try to be more organized with your thoughts. Also, I question the logic of using an ability as precious as a phase swap on a confirmed ITP because I get that you wanted Via to win, but it might've been wiser to put a suspected scum player in the night instead.

And that's a wrap! If there's anything else you want to ask me about or discuss, feel free to ask away.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Sunwoo

[Refa]

Eury lynch was dumb but it was moreso because we (or at least, I) had no idea of who to lynch at the time (which makes sense in retrospect considering that all of the D1 wagons were town lol, but I had no way of knowing that anyways) over her being super scummy. Still feel bad about that though.

Elieson was busy IRL and that definitely contributed to his lack of activity (and I don't really claim to have a good understanding of how busy he was, only he should after all), but he was posting in other mafia games at the time so at least part of it was just him being a scum slacker. :p

Scum would have done a lot better if Marthipan was vigged over BBM IMO. Honestly, you say him being defensive is his scum tell but that was what made me doubt my read on him in the first place so shrugs. Maybe I'm just not good at reading meta haha.

Pretty much agree with all of your other reviews, so I'm going to be lazy and just not comment on them.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Refa

[BBM]

idk I was aware I was being defensive but it's also kind of hard being in a pseudo 1v1 and not being defensive, and then at a certain point it just seemed like people weren't even listening to me and then I just got frustrated and stopped trying as much because I kind of felt like "why I am I trying so hard when I have a bunch of other stuff to do and I'm probably going to get vigged regardless and even if I don't we'll still probably lose?"

[Shinori]

Probably won't be around for phase end tomorrow, I'll see if I can do stuff on my phone though if I'm around.

[Sunwoo]

WTF, Shinori, this game ended two weeks ago!

[Refa]

Hahahaha.

[Grace]

he's no rapier though since there's actually an explanation for it

[euklyd]

Marth changed his name, so I can’t get to his ISO ;/

obligatory Makaze's ISO script is the best

But I also realized too late that AM/PM is a bit of a breakable setup just in its structure. Therefore, I don't think I'll be running it again.

would you mind elaborating on this? more idle curiosity than anything else

[Terrador]

>Terrador had a lot of passion, but his reads weren’t exactly the best and I think he mostly tunneled on townies. Being able to read people is an acquired skill, so I don’t fault him on this other than to just practice picking up scum tells. Also, I think there was a part in the game where Terrador and Blitz were in a 1-v-1 that wasn’t really there. Be careful to make sure you’re not tunneling on someone without reason. Step back and reevaluate your reads, because no matter how confident you are there is always a possibility you can be wrong. And if you’re wrong, you can put yourself in some serious trouble in following phases.

Something something I'm not doing my job right unless I get NK'd as VT

[Terrador]

obligatory Makaze's ISO script is the best

would you mind elaborating on this? more idle curiosity than anything else

DOUBLEPASTA IS OKAY IN MAFIA RITE

But think about it taken to an extreme: let's say we clumped the game, instead, into six groups, each of which having one nontown player, and for whatever reason we know this is balanced and expect it (as was the case here). PoE is much, much stronger in this setup. An uncontested town claim creates a 1v1, period. It's strong. Really strong. Less so here, but consider the following: 2/18 clears is not particularly strong. 2/9 clears is much larger, especially when it becomes 2/8 and continues to be pared down. P. sure this is what she means.

[Grace]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Rarefaction

here's something to peruse

[Sunwoo]

Terrador mostly hit the nail on the head. The reason this setup can be broken so easily is because you know that if the setup is balanced, there is an X number of scum in each phase, depending on the number of players in the game. You can scum hunt from a specific group, and PoE becomes more powerful the less players there are.

[MancerNecro]

Wooh glad to hear I did relatively okay this game.

Also, I admit I did get a bit irritated towards the end of the game which is really my fault T.T.

Also, I don't think Eury's lynch and Strawman's ascetic being broken is because he drew a bit of scum attention onto himself. Like Junko wanted him moved to the night phase cause she suspected him. Eury's lynch had LG and Strawman's rooting for it iirc (might need to recheck later on). I think town lynched her because they got lazy and flaked on lynching other players who they had less certain reads on.

[Refa]

Junko is a dude.

[ZoesMad]

Yeah scum lost motivation when it was just me and Marth. We had to get to win with Blitz and Snike mislynches and soon they realized Mancer's numbers were true so it was one day one night scum left. At least we killed Shinori.

[Percivalé]

idk how to play the role you gave me TBH so i just started being honest about everything.

except for my extra action. i was gonna use it on someone i knew had a night action as a last resort at 2/3. I would have even used it on poly. so good on u town for lettin me win

[Refa]

Would you win if you died?

[ZoesMad]

Would you win if you died?

I think Boron said Quote woulda won if the last target was like a vig shot or something.

[Sunwoo]

Yes, Quote would've still won if the third action they had been targeted was a kill. They didn't know this for certain, though, and only would've been told had they asked directly.

[Shinori]

Idk why that was in this thread.

Fuq dis.

[Percivalé]

I was gonna ask Boron actually about it but then Junko said he would target me so I just assumed that was that. hue