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Shovel Knight Anonymafia - Game Over


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I don't like that he was trying to trick you, I guess? Even unintentionally. But mostly it feels like he said a thing without thinking, it sort of backfired, and now he's trying to check himself before he wrecks himself, especially on a subject which has already confused enough people to warrant an announcement from the big guy himself. That's a thing anyone would do.

All in all I feel like it's a little early to make calls especially when we're just starting and people are obviously excited and wanting to jump into this headfirst; this whole scumslip thing feels like it's been blown out of proportion already which is something I was going to say earlier. However, it's been making plenty of conversation and material to work with so I'm not complaining

It didn't actually feel like much of a trick to me though. I considered it either to be intentional town read by mafia for gaining town credit or town actually thinking I was town for saying it.

I think you meant townslip, by the way, though, your tone kind of feels like you do not want to get your hands dirty. Is there a reason for that?

@King Knight, I am sorry, I didn't figure out you wanted a response. My thoughts on the matter is that you have a fair point

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So I didn't realize before I posted that I have a neat sig with stars in it and I'm gonna keep it there if that's all right with all of you. Pip pip cheerio and all that.


Any-who, I see you have all started without me! I'm still reading through page two, but keep in mind the sample win condition is literally right in the opening post and Prims even commented on it, so I don't think that was necessarily a towntell imo since everyone has access to the wincon right there. (I'll admit though I, too, thought I was mafia until I re-read my role PM. I almost cried irl.) THAT BEING SAID, I'm not getting much out of King Knight--while I think it's a good point that mafia wants to contrive reads as early as possible, I'm not sure that's what I'm seeing here. It seemed way too hasty which is more what I would call the "clumsy town maneuver."


I'm sensing there might be at least one person here who doesn't play mafia here a lot based on some of the responses I'm seeing (namely the interactions between Tinker and King), which is interesting. I actually really like Tinker's response to King's "towntell" read on him--it made a lot of sense from a town perspective (I don't see mafia doing something like this often unless they wanna be ballsy but King threw out a good argument and it doesn't read contrived to me, which is why I like it).


Please take heed though that using self-meta in an anon game is really shaky.


On that note, something feels off to me about BK that I can't put my finger on. I think a lot of it hinges on #40 where BK sheeps a bit on what other people have said and I think is sitting way too hard on the meta thing. I don't see anything wrong with King trying to "justify" his vote; I just see things wrong with self-meta in an anon game.

ack##Vote: Blight Knight

You keep sitting on your one point and repeating the same thing when King responds to you and so far I haven't seen a vote. Do you think King is scum?

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On that note, something feels off to me about BK that I can't put my finger on. I think a lot of it hinges on #40 where BK sheeps a bit on what other people have said and I think is sitting way too hard on the meta thing. I don't see anything wrong with King trying to "justify" his vote; I just see things wrong with self-meta in an anon game.

ack##Vote: Blight Knight
You keep sitting on your one point and repeating the same thing when King responds to you and so far I haven't seen a vote. Do you think King is scum?

You mean sheep all of what two people have said in a game that had barely started and had little content?

Also, what vote is King Knight trying to justify? His vote is an RVS vote on me. His self-meta comment feels rather defensive, and even if you think I'm sitting on my one point and repeating the same thing, that's what I've got on him so far and I still feel that way.

My vote is an RVS vote on King Knight back on the first page. Even if I found King Knight the most suspect of the people who were present, I can't exactly change it if my RVS vote was already on him. Are you even reading this game?

##Unvote

##Vote: Propeller Knight

Because you either have BBM-level reading skills or you're just looking for someone to smear without actually reading.

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I don't like reading RVS votes, but whatever. Point taken. But! Your vote on me changes pretty much nothing on my opinion of you :3c

Thanks for trying to discourage me with that personal attack, by the way.

ALSO I MEANT JUSTIFY HIS TOWNTELL NOT HIS VOTE OKAY I'M STUPID

jesus it was a typo calm down

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I'm not getting much out of King Knight--while I think it's a good point that mafia wants to contrive reads as early as possible, I'm not sure that's what I'm seeing here. It seemed way too hasty which is more what I would call the "clumsy town maneuver."

could you explain this more?

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Uh, I am calm. I think you're the one getting upset :/

Thanks for trying to discourage me with that personal attack, by the way.

How is "are you even reading the game" a personal attack or a discouragement. Other players say that kind of stuff to each other in games all the time, even now.

Also, the reason what you posted was bad enough to warrant a vote is because if I really was your legit strongest suspect, you would've actually been reading my posts better. You would've at least known whether I had a vote down or not and who it was on. If you made a typo with the "vote" thing, then fair enough but I expect you to know whether your strongest scum read has a vote down, RVS or not.

Not to mention that your being all "don't get mad, calm down, and way to try to make personal attacks on me and discourage me" over things that other mafia players literally do, and to even greater extent than whatever I said, looks like you're trying to paint my actions in a worse light than they really are.

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could you explain this more?

there's mafia being ballsy and there's town being clumsy and I think King's action falls in the latter. especially with the self-meta. this might be bias bc I think I know who King is (sorry I'm just explaining why I might feel this way ;_; ) but I think what he's been doing so far feels more like town making clumsy moves. you know what I mean?

like for example the early tracker claim in DLC can be considered a clumsy town move. info roleclaims made by new players tend to be clumsy town not knowing how their roles work/how their roles should be claimed. you get what I'm saying?

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I'm sorry BK, I just didn't like your tone.

I still think you're scum because I think your vote on me is reactionary, and this isn't because of tone stuff. Also you seem to be reading my personal feelings as me trying to overexaggerate stuff but that wasn't my intention, that legitimately upset me because I'm moody.

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I still think you're scum because I think your vote on me is reactionary, and this isn't because of tone stuff. Also you seem to be reading my personal feelings as me trying to overexaggerate stuff but that wasn't my intention, that legitimately upset me because I'm moody.

I still find it questionable that you'd have me as your strongest scum read and not even realize that I already had my vote on King Knight - who would've been my strongest suspect at the time anyway - even if it was RVS. Honestly, just feels like scum jumping in to make a case without reading carefully enough.

Also, I am saying this to you not as the player but as the person behind this account.

Stop.

If my tone legitimately upset you because you're moody, your quick jump to make personal accusations towards me over things that other SF mafia players literally do in every place where we interact really pissed me of. I see various other players get away with saying things like, "BBM-level reading skills", or "are you even fucking reading this thread" with nary a blink. And yet, it seems like whenever I do the same, people always get upset and take it as a personal attack. This seems to happen every time. And I am not going to put up with it.

I don't expect people to accuse me of making personal attacks just because I'm doing what a good fraction of other players do and never get yelled at for. If you're moody, I understand, but please consider the feelings of the other person you are responding to before making personal attacks like you did.

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I think Tinker and King are the same alignment, leaning both town right now just because it would be a first if scum performed this sort of gambit ED1. I agree that there's no incentive for mafia to discredit townreads on themselves other than because there's no mafia reason to do it so it looks townie, whereas town benefit from having a town that's playing smart.

I don't really want to touch the BK and Propeller stuff right now.

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I'm not fond of Plague's deliberate avoidance of Black and Propeller, even if you don't like to deal with the conflict there's still some content there to look into. Their opinions on Tinker-King interactions also seem like clustering for the sake of clustering, why can't Tinker be mafia and King be town if you could come up with a plausible reason for Tinker doing what he did as mafia? It certainly isn't next level WIFOM that should be immediately discarded.

The post feels like somebody just blurted out whatever for the sake of meeting a post cuota, then left.

I dislike Black's last post as well because it's an emotional response that could've easily been spoilered and directed only at the intended player, and the only reason I'd ever leave something like that out in the open is if I wanted people to townread me for it.

I'm similarly irked by Tinker's fuckup in #42 (mentioned in #44) because mafia feeling obligated to reply "on time" leads to snippets of post drafts being where they shouldn't be. #projecting

Also want to know where he's going with his questions, since he seemed to be pressuring King without his vote until he conceded and moved onto questioning Propeller while still keeping their RVS vote. What's going on inside that helmet, mortal? Who is mafia?

##Vote: Plague

I have no idea who King is but I'm assuming they would've started the day the same way whether they were town or mafia, and would've had to save face afterwards whether they were town or mafia, so I'd rather come back to new posts from shiny knight later than get lost in overanalyzing what they've put out so far.

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Votals?

Black (3): Mole, King, Propeller

Mole (2): Plague, Tinker

King (1): Treasure

Propeller (1): Black

Plague (1): Specter

60 hours and 45 minutes left in the phase. It takes 5 to hammer.

Not liable for errors because Prims or a co-mod should do these.

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Thoughts on King/Tinker:

I'm pretty sure I know who king is, and based on their meta I would say there town. That being said I'm usually wrong so I'm not gonna go off that for my reads, so I might sound a bit conflicted wrt king.

Kings logic is bad and the use of self meta and overall focus of defending himself isn't really what I wanna see at this point in the game, or any point really. It's not inherently scummy IMO I just don't like the play style and don't think it helps the game all that much. That being said I don't see anything that is inherently towny or scummy in his play, again different if I could use meta but I can't. Actually I might be wrong. Forcing townreads early is scummy I don't think anybody would argue against that. But given how king has played so far I'm not sure how much common scum tells matter. Overall null. (I know I'm useless shut up.)

Tinker feels like he has more content I don't why I just thought he posted more. But from what he did post I didn't really get a strong read. Now that's not necessarily a bad thing it's jus the nature of ED1, however i also can't really seem to find his thoughts on other people. Maybe it's too early for mafia, but I just would like some clarification on his reads if he has any. I know the game still just started but.

You mean sheep all of what two people have said in a game that had barely started and had little content?

Also, what vote is King Knight trying to justify? His vote is an RVS vote on me. His self-meta comment feels rather defensive, and even if you think I'm sitting on my one point and repeating the same thing, that's what I've got on him so far and I still feel that way.

My vote is an RVS vote on King Knight back on the first page. Even if I found King Knight the most suspect of the people who were present, I can't exactly change it if my RVS vote was already on him. Are you even reading this game?

##Unvote

##Vote: Propeller Knight

Because you either have BBM-level reading skills or you're just looking for someone to smear without actually reading.

This whole post is basically defense in indignation. Which is a logical fallacy and usually a scum tell in my experience. I don't like the overall tone of the post, it feels unnecessarily aggressive. The OMGUS vote is bad, no way around that. Yes he either didn't read or didn't acknowledge that your RVS vote was on king, but that is one of the worse reasons to vote someone that I've seen in a while. Like not everybody bothers to read RVS votes, some people don't even bother posting till RVS is solidly over. Ignoring one post in RVS or the entire RVS isn't scummy, unless this is quick hammer mafia 2.0 in which get me out now and how the hell did you guys let Eli get away with that.

I still find it questionable that you'd have me as your strongest scum read and not even realize that I already had my vote on King Knight - who would've been my strongest suspect at the time anyway - even if it was RVS. Honestly, just feels like scum jumping in to make a case without reading carefully enough.

Also, I am saying this to you not as the player but as the person behind this account.

Stop.

If my tone legitimately upset you because you're moody, your quick jump to make personal accusations towards me over things that other SF mafia players literally do in every place where we interact really pissed me of. I see various other players get away with saying things like, "BBM-level reading skills", or "are you even fucking reading this thread" with nary a blink. And yet, it seems like whenever I do the same, people always get upset and take it as a personal attack. This seems to happen every time. And I am not going to put up with it.

I don't expect people to accuse me of making personal attacks just because I'm doing what a good fraction of other players do and never get yelled at for. If you're moody, I understand, but please consider the feelings of the other person you are responding to before making personal attacks like you did.

Stop trying to play the victim. He hasn't made a single reference to you as person let alone an attack on your character or intellect. You also haven't made a single relevant point outside of your first response. You're doing the same thing he voted you for, you're literally taking one point and just harping on it over and over. Your only response to his case is "did you even read the thread" and then proceed to throw a tantrum. Just stop.

Also context is important for stuff like BBM level reading skills. It's a joke, you did not use it as such. You also used "you didn't even read the thread" as a reason to vote him. Not just "hey you haven't read yet, we can tell, check out these posts then come back" you used it as "omg didn't read gonna lynch you for that". There is a difference in the situations people use phrases that can give off a very tone.

That being said I can now address my actual reads based on the exchange between the two of you. Propeller, don't like the original case tbh, yes repeating the same point can be scummy but if you do not feel the point is adequately addressed, even if it has been responded too, then asking multiple times is fine as town. I don't really think that's a valid reason to vote somebody, but it is still ED1 so not gonna stress about that too much could also be the only read he has which fine if that's the case I just don't think the case is great.

Black knight, ignoring the tone of the posts and the way he's acting, isn't really scummy. Yes he could've defend himself in a logical way and not rely on logical fallacies but I don't really care, people will do what people will do. The only scummy thing he's done though is his OMGUS vote. Its probably just a difference of opinion wrt whether or not king adequately answered his question so I don't really think him mentioning it multiple times is scummy. The vote is bad though. You have no case on him at all, and it's literally voting him because he voted you. IMO that's scummy. The rest of the play though I'm just very meh on. Null leaning scum overall.

"But wait mole knight you essentially just have 3 solid null reads, and one that you're kinda leaning scum on. That's all you got from that conversation."

The answer is yes, we are less than 12 hours and less than 70 posts into the game I'd be more concerned if I had solid town or scum reads.

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What do you mean by speaking from a biased position?

Forgot to ask you this before, but what was the purpose of this question?

I never actually adequately explained my issues with Black Knight, although I could have sworn I did. When I said that I didn't like their case on me, I wasn't referring to the initial case (I could understand the train of thought behind that one) but rather how they justified the case. It read as them trying to keep a static position on me rather than reevaluating the read. Rereading though, it's moreso just them explaining their read on me...to me (this isn't scummy, but it's sort of misguided because I'll never agree with a scumread on myself). Their vote on Propeller Knight was definitely reactionary, but I'd be reactionary to an early game wagon (actually, I have been) as well, so it doesn't bother me anyways; later responses to Propeller Knight aren't alignment relevant (especially if the Black Knight is who I think they are). The slot is leaning town for me at the moment, but it'll be much easier for me to read them when they take a step back from Propeller Knight and review the rest of the game (not implying that they could have done this before).

I really like Propeller Knight's first post (my first actual townread as opposed to just leaning town lol), mostly because I can see the active thought process there (also you may know who I am, but I also know who you are). Their reactions to Black Knight are townie as well; in particular, they'd be more apathetic as scum (yeah yeah, it's partially based on a meta read in an anonymous mafia game). Curious about their thoughts on recent posts that have been made since they left though.

Plague, why am I the same alignment as Tinker? You mention some sort of ED1 scum gambit, but I have no idea what you're referring to when you say that. Like...I'm not bothered by this conclusion, but your only thought process to support it is to waffle on Tinker's reaction. Kind of annoyed that you ignored BK/Propeller Knight stuff, but I wouldn't call it scummy since that was my first reaction too.

Specter, your case on Plague is fine (heck, I'm pretty sure I at least partially sheeped it), but I don't like how you called them out for not analyzing BK/Propeller Knight when you yourself had not done so (yes, you talked about Black Knight's emotional response, but what do you think of their actual content). OTOH, you did bring up a good point about Tinker that I never actually thought about myself so kudos (I want to eat a kudos right now...).

Townreading Mole Knight for similar (but weaker) reasons as Propeller Knight (minus the meta and moreso that I can see an active thought process at work there), and I don't see why scum would put so much effort only for it to amount to three null reads? At the same time, it's still three null reads in the end. Not really too worried about this slot though because if they post in as much detail about future scumreads, it'll be an easy read overall. Now I just need to hope that they actually do so.

##Unvote

##Vote: Plague Knight

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@mole knight: yes it is ED1 and at the time had null/town on everyone else (null on treasure, null-maybe-town on king, town on tinker) and gut told me BK was scummy for that reason. I can't tell who you actually think is scum in your huge post, I read it and you tell me my case was bad but wave me off as idk null or something, then get all up on BK's case but end it with "the only scummy thing they've done is the OMGUS vote" and I'm super confused. Could you be a bit clearer about your reads?

I need some more time away from this game, but my vote stays where it is until I come back.

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I'm not fond of Plague's deliberate avoidance of Black and Propeller, even if you don't like to deal with the conflict there's still some content there to look into.

What do you think, then?

Also I think you got Tinker mixed up with BK.

all right going now

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I didn't mix up names as far as I can tell, the issue is probably the highlighted "their" in the quote below, which was intended as third person singular referred to Plague instead of third person plural referred to Black and Propeller.

I'm not fond of Plague's deliberate avoidance of Black and Propeller, even if you don't like to deal with the conflict there's still some content there to look into. Their opinions on Tinker-King interactions also seem like clustering for the sake of clustering, why can't Tinker be mafia and King be town if you could come up with a plausible reason for Tinker doing what he did as mafia? It certainly isn't next level WIFOM that should be immediately discarded.

@King and Propeller

I didn't agree with Black or Propeller's cases on each other, but also didn't have any issues with the way they went about them and reacted to each other beyond what I already mentioned about #62, which I find more telling.

I was initially townreading Propeller for meta reasons (I believe they are who they're hinting at being, rather than somebody pretending to be them) but even those are kind of weak, so Propeller is generally null while Black is leaning scum.

My issue with Plague avoiding Black-Propeller entirely is that it's good play for mafia to test the waters or wait and see what the general consensus on an issue seems to be before voicing an opinion, that way their own made up opinion doesn't stick out like a sore thumb later. Avoiding conflict is understandable, but avoiding everything by those people struck me as hiding potential scum intent.

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This is part 1 of 2 of responses to what I've missed since I have a feeling I won't be able to respond to everything before needing a break

Kind of confused on your alignment, because I like the tone of your responses but you haven't really pushed much (not that I'm expecting you to push anything this early in the game, hence the null read as opposed to a scum read).

I think you meant townslip, by the way, though, your tone kind of feels like you do not want to get your hands dirty. Is there a reason for that?

It's pretty interesting to me that it seems like both of you weren't particularly happy with me not wanting to push King. Here's the thing; I didn't want to push because I had seen real content from 2.5 players (the .5 being Black at the time) when there are 8 of you that I need to be looking at, and it's very easy in early game for someone to make a silly mistake and then get ragged on, which is what I was perceiving the situation as going to be until Black really got into the mix.

King and Tinker both moved past it and it's worth noting that I really didn't have much to press on? I told you I was conflicted about what was going on, and clearly I had misinterpreted some things. King gave me the impression of wanting to cover up his tracks, but his responses helped me feel a little better about it but not without totally getting rid of that feeling of unease. Either way, I need more substance to look at.

I am really not a fan of Tinker mentioning me "not wanting to get my hands dirty" and so far only asking for explanations with lukewarm accusations directed only at King who he doesn't seem to actually think is scum.

Then in #34 saying the very passive aggressive "it really is annoying that none of the other knights decided to mix into the conversation" when I was the only one who had posted in the meantime. That was cute.

Are you even reading this game?

##Unvote

##Vote: Propeller Knight

Because you either have BBM-level reading skills or you're just looking for someone to smear without actually reading.

The OMGUS is strong with this one, wow

there's mafia being ballsy and there's town being clumsy and I think King's action falls in the latter. especially with the self-meta. this might be bias bc I think I know who King is (sorry I'm just explaining why I might feel this way ;_; ) but I think what he's been doing so far feels more like town making clumsy moves. you know what I mean?

This is pretty much what I've been getting at, yeah. Agreed. From what I can tell so far King is a good player, he just needs to get his words out a little better (which I think he even mentioned himself?)

Also, "I think I know who King is". Stahp. Stahp stahp stahp. I'm not a fan of using meta as arguments in general but the fact that you are going off meta of a person that you aren't even sure they might actually be just makes me feel even worse about it. It just has the potential to be so destructive. Pls.

If my tone legitimately upset you because you're moody, your quick jump to make personal accusations towards me over things that other SF mafia players literally do in every place where we interact really pissed me of. I see various other players get away with saying things like, "BBM-level reading skills", or "are you even fucking reading this thread" with nary a blink. And yet, it seems like whenever I do the same, people always get upset and take it as a personal attack. This seems to happen every time. And I am not going to put up with it.

I don't expect people to accuse me of making personal attacks just because I'm doing what a good fraction of other players do and never get yelled at for. If you're moody, I understand, but please consider the feelings of the other person you are responding to before making personal attacks like you did.

So here's what you do: Don't insult other people? It's a real simple concept. Especially don't get salty when people are upset that you insulted them. Did you think Propeller was going to just take an insult to the face? I get that this is an emotionally charged game but have some tact. And you definitely seem to be the one who is moody here, especially considering how easily Propeller backed off of you.

And "other people do a bad thing and get away with it why am I not allowed to!" is not an excuse for doing anything ever lmao

I think Tinker and King are the same alignment, leaning both town right now just because it would be a first if scum performed this sort of gambit ED1.

I've seen some pretty intense gambits.

Do not ever underestimate what lengths scum will go to.

Expect Part 2 in a couple hours

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