Paperblade Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Someone playing suboptimally doesn't necessarily mean they're not trying to win. They might just be unskilled or not have the same information that you do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ether Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Someone playing suboptimally doesn't necessarily mean they're not trying to win. They might just be unskilled or not have the same information that you do I wouldn't use suboptimal to describe that situation, myself. It does not fully describe the quantity of error involved. Though I suppose it just leads into another point of advice, which would be not to assume that people will play well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleph Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Which reminds me...it is sometimes a good idea to target players because of their (perhaps only perceived) intelligence over attacking the person who is most suspicious (someone who is probably mafia if you're town, someone who is probably a power role if you're mafia). After all, if the only people left in the game are dumbasses, it doesn't matter if they're on your team or not. They're going to fuck up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleph Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 claiming to get people off of you is pretty viable but LEAVE OUT PARTS THAT GET YOU KILLED BY THE MAFIA next time jesus fuck"I have a super secret special ability when I [accomplish difficult task that is now easy due to me claiming]" is an excellent way to paint a big ass target all over yourself. CUT OUT SHIT OR DOCTOR IT if you're sharing your role PM and information therein is [incredibly fucking sensitive, or perhaps even just slightly]. Even if you're town. Yes. Lying when you're town is usually retarded. You have to be tact about it. Just do what's...not stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Can anyone explain to me why it's top priority to lynch innactive players? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlet Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Can anyone explain to me why it's top priority to lynch innactive players? It's not top priority to lynch them. It's important to get them to talk, and voting for them is one of the more effective ways to achieve this. It's just that people sometimes tend to overdo it (with sheeping and whatnot) and outright lynch the person in question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uguu Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Well, if they aren't under serious threat of lynch that isn't gonna convince them to talk much now are they Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Well, if they aren't under serious threat of lynch that isn't gonna convince them to talk much now are they Biggest flaw with pressure voting... Not enough, and they don't talk, too much and they die :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleph Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 don't play if you're going to be inactive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlet Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 If votes start to pile on you and there's a serious danger that you might get lynched, do whatever is necessary to get people off you, regardless of your alignment. Usually, this means that you need to make a convincing claim. If you're mafia, this is obvious: you need to do this to save your own skin, and be it just for that one day. The longer it takes for the mafia to die, the bigger are their chances of winning. If you're 3rd party, this is also obvious: most 3rd parties are single players, so they usually need to survive to win. Some 3rd party roles, like the Survivor, aren't a direct threat to neither the town nor the mafia, thus generally leading to them leaving you alone, or at least you may be able to work out some deals that keep you alive. If you're town, getting yourself lynched will still help the town by giving them info, right? Wrong. Why waste the town's lynch when you know you're not scum? The very least you can do is truthfully claim your role to provide the town with the info they decided they wanted without needing to lynch you, thus giving them the opportunity to lynch somebody else and maybe actually catch a mafia that way. Also inform the town about what you did the previous nights, unless you think this helps the mafia more than it would help the town (this is rare, but sometimes such a situation does occur). Yes, this will most likely get you killed by the mafia the following night, especially if you have a very powerful role like cop or doc. It's still better than getting lynched, as lynching uses up the town's limited weapon; the mafia, on the other hand, has a kill every night anyway, and all your claim is likely going to do is provide them with a priority target instead of speeding up their victory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaoz Posted December 9, 2011 Author Share Posted December 9, 2011 Thanks to eclipse for spellchecking, I hope the following is of some use: Vanilla Townie - OverviewBy definition, a Vanila is a role without any special abilities. They cannot protect others like a Doctor and they cannot find members of the Mafia like a Cop. Surely these guys are completly worthless, right? This couldn't be further from the truth. Even though Vanillas do not possess any extraordinary traits, they still have access to the two most important attributes a Townie can have: their brain and their vote. Always remember that the Town's objective is to eliminate all Mafia (and possibly a few 3rd party roles), and Vigs aside, the lynch is their only way to achieve that goal. How to play as Vanilla Townie? Whereas the execution of playing this role perfectly is a bit more difficult, the premise is pretty simple. BE ACTIVE! Vanilla roles require some of the highest activity ratio, maybe even the highest of all roles. By being active you will gain more information (and not just any information but the information you require) which will help make informed decisions regarding the lynch. As such, pressure people. Question their actions and contributions. Spot inconsistencies. Do all of these and the Town will greatly benefit from your actions. As you gain more experience and get better at finding Anti-Town on your own (note that in order to get that experience, you have to start somewhere), this also has the nice side effect that the Mafia will seriously consider you as target for their night kill, which means you will protect more important roles. Conclusion Vanillas are not the most powerful roles around, but that does not mean they cannot make a difference. More often than not, they will. Also note that everything you just read can be applied to most other Town roles (with slight modifications). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) From what I recall, it means that players are listed from most to least suspicious and the higher a player is on that list, the earlier he claims. That being said, I am against that sort of claiming. IIRC you guys took like 3 day phases for it in DT2M and we don't have that kind of time. More later. EXACTLY why I hate pop corn style claiming. Edited December 13, 2011 by Cap'n Flint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) Proper way to Popcorn claim is that town in general picks a suspicious player to go first. After claiming, the chosen player then picks the person they think is the most suspicious to go next, and the process repeats itself. The idea is that the scummier players claim before the townies, increasing the chance of scum getting snagged by a counterclaim or a tracker/watcher result that proves them wrong. Edited December 15, 2011 by Prims Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Proper way to Popcorn claim is that town in general picks a suspicious player to go first. After claiming, the chosen player then picks the person they think is the most suspicious to go next, and the process repeats itself. The idea is that the scummier players claim before the townies, increasing the chance of scum getting snagged by a counterclaim or a tracker/watcher result that proves them wrong. This makes absolutely no sense. Because (once again) "suspicion" in a NOC game is glorified guesswork. People get credited for nothing more than lucky guesses in that game unless you're playing against retards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I don't see the point in arguing with that since it sounds like you're already convinced NOC is shit, in which case I don't see why you even care about popcorn claiming in the first place. :shrug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 read like a book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I don't see the point in arguing with that since it sounds like you're already convinced NOC is shit, in which case I don't see why you even care about popcorn claiming in the first place. :shrug: Because people are determined to "prove" that there is skill in NOC. Like you. There is no skill in NOC. You can't co-ordinate shit without the mafia knowing AKA you just plain can't co-ordinate shit in the beginning. If there's two mafias, crossfire will happen because that's what happens with random aiming. And logical sense gets tossed out the windows and gets replaced with "feelings". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 yes i am most definitely trying to prove that there is skill involved in NOC by saying "I don't see the point of arguing since you already think NOC is shit" Man why do you even care if people believe NOC involves skill or not? Seems like you're getting upset because other people are having fun playing a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tables Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Ahahaha. No skill in NOC. No skill in NOC? That's completely crap and you know it. Unfortunately many players here haven't developed the proper skills for NOC, and the way we play in general makes it pretty random (lots of roles), but there's definitely skill involved. Just look at some of the bigger mafia communities online. Most of those are NOC, and if it was just a 1-2 month experience ultimately decided by luck, believe me, most of those wouldn't be there. OC is much more skillful for the town leader, and for the mafia, while everyone else becomes considerably less important, and all they can really do is scumhunt in the thread and talk to people... hey, that's just what NOC skills are, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 As much as I like NOC, there's so many of them going on right now its getting boring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Ahahaha. No skill in NOC. No skill in NOC? That's completely crap and you know it. Unfortunately many players here haven't developed the proper skills for NOC, and the way we play in general makes it pretty random (lots of roles), but there's definitely skill involved. Just look at some of the bigger mafia communities online. Most of those are NOC, and if it was just a 1-2 month experience ultimately decided by luck, believe me, most of those wouldn't be there. If I'm the world champion of competitive hotdog eating, is that skill? No, that's called being a fatass. It's the same thing here. What you call skill is really luck in disguise. Please explain where skill exists in NOC. All you did was say "lol no even though we prove otherwise". OC is much more skillful for the town leader, and for the mafia, while everyone else becomes considerably less important, and all they can really do is scumhunt in the thread and talk to people... hey, that's just what NOC skills are, isn't it? My fucking god, Tables. That's the most important thing in OC games. The town leader is in the WORST position to find mafia members because no mafia member (that's got at least 3 brain cells and knows how to dimly use them) is going to slip up when talking to him. But they might to a townie who's pulling bullshit out of his ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percivalé Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 (edited) People like to play what they want to play, can we just... settle down the OC/NOC argument? I dislike OC because it saps away the element of surprise. Limited OC is quite all right in my book, because it makes the system much less broken and eliminates the problems and issues surrounding town leaders. However, this whole "one is better than the other" debate frustrates me, because each of the two styles has its pros and cons, and each has its certain playertype that it appeals to. I'm not the same person I once was--I'm not going to VEHEMENTLY ASSERT that NOC is the better style simply because I happen to enjoy playing it more and am more familiar with the mechanics of NOC. If I see any more of this: What you call skill is really luck in disguise. (this is largely your opinion) then I'm going to sfdsgssdsddfddfhgfg ;'l;kfslaf;lasfjlf flaslk;falk;. Edited December 16, 2011 by Levantamos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I like OC, but I don't like it here. If this was a forum where people took initiative, and struck up conversations with everyone, it would work, but we've got way too many people that refuse to talk. That's why I'm hosting NOC; it forces people to think for themselves, or look like sheep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I don't see the point in giving legitimate arguments in response to somebody who is either A. intentionally trying to make people mad or B. getting upset because people are having fun playing something he doesn't like. It's a waste of time either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleph Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 But they might to a townie who's pulling bullshit out of his ass. Townie? Sir, I am no townie. I'll let you in on a little secret: I'm actually the wolf. I'm pretty much screwed! But guess what? If you take me along for the ride...maybe we can give each other a chance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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