Rate the Unit, Day 23: Lilina

[Dark Sage]

so bad

dumb

stupid

awful

slow

terrible

weak

ORKO'd by everything

worse personality than Lugh

1/10, good for a laugh if you need one.

[Baldrick]

And did someone say boss slay? with that accuracy?

Fire has 95 accuracy.

Her support with Roy gives 5% Accuracy per level.

Every other support gives her at least 2.5% Accuracy.

She lacks a killer weapon, good skill and innate crit bonus, so she's obviously never going to compete with Rutger, but she's one of the best, if not the best, of the rest for bosskilling.

[Thor Odinson]

Except many bosses have 1-2 range and on average her speed is just not up to par to reliably dodge, where she'd often be OHKO'd by bosses.

Most FE6 bosses, if not all, are not so wussy as to die in one hit from her.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Luminescent Blade

[Baldrick]

But the only bosses with reliable 1-2 range are Henning (who she should only engage when he has his sword equipped), Flaer (with Aircalibur, she can deal the kill if he's weakened), Randy (lolLight Brand), Narshen (since Runesword has WTA, but otherwise see Flaer), Sigurney (she's not getting that kill, sure), Gel (see Randy) and possibly Murdock. She's probably not soloing most bosses, admittedly, but I still feel she's playing a major role in any non-Rutgerblink strategy

[Colonel M]

She should never encounter any boss with 2 range, barring possibly Narshen, Sigune, and Flaer.

That's almost all of them once she exists barring weird ones like Eine and that one... Nomad in Chapter 18?

[Narga_Rocks]

1.75/10

Not as bad as ppl say she is, but still pretty bad. Having single digit speed throughout the entirety of 1st tier is completely unacceptable.

And did someone say boss slay? with that accuracy?

You gave one of the worst scores in the topic. What do you mean "not as bad as ppl say she is"? Which people?

[dondon151]

Fire has 95 accuracy.

Fire has 5 MT.

She lacks a killer weapon, good skill and innate crit bonus, so she's obviously never going to compete with Rutger, but she's one of the best, if not the best, of the rest for bosskilling.

if you RNG abuse her str, spd level ups every single time, then sure

by the way i'm gonna point out that thrones give +5 res

and of course lilina has no effective weapons outside of aircalibur

She should never encounter any boss with 2 range, barring possibly Narshen, Sigune, and Flaer.

narshen's a no-no unless lilina can somehow reach 44 mag, because she gets doubled until 20/5 on average by a huge self-healing atk (runesword hits def and doesn't cut atk in FE6)

which means narshen's probably going to heal off the damage done both on PP and EP because he doubles lilina

flaer is slower but also OHKOs lilina on counter until she's 20/1 on average and sigune doubles lilina until she's 20/8 on average

But the only bosses with reliable 1-2 range are Henning (who she should only engage when he has his sword equipped), Flaer (with Aircalibur, she can deal the kill if he's weakened), Randy (lolLight Brand), Narshen (since Runesword has WTA, but otherwise see Flaer), Sigurney (she's not getting that kill, sure), Gel (see Randy) and possibly Murdock. She's probably not soloing most bosses, admittedly, but I still feel she's playing a major role in any non-Rutgerblink strategy

i don't understand this statement. almost every boss in FE6 has a 2-range option, and halfway into the game they pretty consistently have strong 2-range options (the exception is alucard with his javelin).

Edited March 27, 2012 by dondon151

[Anouleth]

But the only bosses with reliable 1-2 range are Henning (who she should only engage when he has his sword equipped),

Base level Lilina will only do 5 damage per hit to Henning with Elfire, 22 accuracy.

Flaer (with Aircalibur, she can deal the kill if he's weakened),

You skipped out:

-Scott OHKOes Lilina until she's level 9, and he doubles her until she's level 19, and he has high crit on her forever. A level 9 Lilina (overlevelled as fuck) faces 53 hit from him.

-Lilina barely damages Nord. A level 10 Lilina has 20 attack, so she'll deal 6 damage a turn with 31 accuracy. Lilina is in return, 2HKOed and doubled at 79 hit, and Nosferatu heals him too.

-She's ~okay against Zinc, but she still only does 13 damage a turn at 53 hit and needs constant healing. Zinc is relatively a very weak boss.

-Can't even damage Oro.

-Morgan OHKOes her until she's level 14 and doubles her until she's level 15. And she's back to single-digit damage, assuming she gains about two levels per chapter.

-Gelero doubles her until she's promoted and OHKOes her until she's level 19.

And that's just the Isles!

Randy (lolLight Brand), Narshen (since Runesword has WTA, but otherwise see Flaer), Sigurney (she's not getting that kill, sure), Gel (see Randy) and possibly Murdock. She's probably not soloing most bosses, admittedly, but I still feel she's playing a major role in any non-Rutgerblink strategy

She really isn't.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Anouleth

[BBM]

Well, I've never used Lilina in HM, but I used her once in NM and she got pretty SPD screwed, so I guess it'd kinda be like average SPD Lilina on HM. It was... pretty bad. I think there were even a couple Armors/Generals she couldn't double... But she has kinda accurate and powerful chip, assuming she can be protected. OFC, that chip would probably be worse in HM with better enemy durability so.. 3/10? +1 bias because I like her support conversations, -1 bias for blue hair and not Sigurd/Celice, +1 bias for being Hector's daughter, so 4/10 overall I guess.

[Fallenite]

hahahaHAHAHA. hah.

[Biabarr]

This...

I guess I have to be the asshat that starts that parade.Lilina sucks. No joke.Coming at Level 1 with her "shitty" bases (5 Mag / 4 Spd / 16 HP / 2 Def) is just... like... holy fucking shit. I really hate pulling the "unit X card", but I mean shit Lugh joined at a lot more convenient time, and it still was a struggle to train him to go somewhere. Lilina is like taking a loaded shotgun; each time you use her, proceed to shoot yourself in the foot and build on up to the headshot. Hopefully you learn after the first shot, yet some are masochistic bastards and pretty much get close to the head shot......Lilina's growths are pretty awkward. 75% Mag growth is pretty stellar, but the Spd growth of 35%, HP growth of 45%, and Def growth of 10% means one thing - lolicannon. The only thing she has left to brag is Anima is pretty accurate, and getting to Aircalibur is pretty helpful for tearing up Wyvern Knights and Wyvern Lords, which are problematic throughout the game. That's probably her only saving grace.When you combine 5 Mov in a game where maps are fucking huge, bad bases, lack of a Spd growth, durability woes, and a game that shockingly likes to pack 2 range a lot, you're in a deep pile of shit. She doesn't have some utility like Ward does for example, so she's purely a "growth unit". She gets a minor bonus for having a really fast support with Roy... but who cares, he sucks just as much too!...2.5/10. I think that's generous enough.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Bee

[Onmi]

eh 4/10 with a Bias Point. My last Hard Mode run Lilina didn't see a lot of use, in fact most mages didn't see much use unless it was the Desert. She got pretty blessed that run (but honestly EVERY unit got blessed and I wasn't even screwing with the RNG) but I still kept her sidelined. She has a good fast support with Roy, and she can support with Cecilia for the nice Anima but this is really all ignoring the problem at hand

Level 1. Low bases. No speed. 3 big faults that Lilina can not overcome no matter how broken Anima is in FE6. She needs to Proc speed CONSTANTLY to keep up, Or get the speedwings, and I can't (off the top of my head) think of competition for the Speedwings, but there probably is.It's not that she can't train, the enemy still has no Res and you still have walls. But why would you bother? Lugh has less Mag but reliably doubles, Hugh comes... okay he comes pretty pathetic (and no HM Bonuses the FUCK?!) but he can at least swallow a Guiding Ring on a chapter where you can buy them if you have the cash.

Which is another problem, the Guiding Ring is one of THE most competed over Promotion items in FE6. The Hero Crest does not see this much fucking competition, and Lilina unless you really want to use her, isn't getting it over Lugh/Clarine/Saul.

Of course you can train her up, can make her usable, but who can't you train and make usable?

For the record, my score does not reflect a LTC game, only a HM Game.

[Colonel M]

narshen's a no-no unless lilina can somehow reach 44 mag, because she gets doubled until 20/5 on average by a huge self-healing atk (runesword hits def and doesn't cut atk in FE6)

which means narshen's probably going to heal off the damage done both on PP and EP because he doubles lilina

flaer is slower but also OHKOs lilina on counter until she's 20/1 on average and sigune doubles lilina until she's 20/8 on average

While a dumbish assumption, I was going in a scenario where a miss was incurred (or for some retarded reason we're stingy on legendary weapon uses). So... Given minor chip, though that's a really dumb since 2 of the three are weak to Durandal and Sigune can still get picked off better by bow users.

[dondon151]

also i don't understand where people get the assumption that anima is "broken" in FE6

[Colonel M]

also i don't understand where people get the assumption that anima is "broken" in FE6

My guess is with it being accurate (to an extent) and light. Most 1-2 range weapons have accuracy that still makes me cringe whenever I equip it.

I'm not calling it broken by the way.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Colonel M

[Bluedoom]

Regardless of the score, no. This vote will not fly.

What? * stomps foot*

She's too slow. Any enemy gets near her and she dies. Her high magic is a waste because she cant come to the frontlines because of bad durability. True, she's sorta like Caeda, in the sense of recruiting enemies( and recruits the beast that is Gonzales) but honestly not worth training.

So there, I gave my 'reasoning.' Pwease count my vote? :3

[Shadow Mir]

also i don't understand where people get the assumption that anima is "broken" in FE6

I think Colonel M hit the nail on the head. Javelins and hand axes are much too inaccurate in this game.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Metal King Slime

[dondon151]

I think Colonel M hit the nail on the head. Javelins and hand axes are much too inaccurate in this game.

yet javelin and hand axe users are still much better in general than anima users

and why isn't dark "broken?" it's much better than anima in this game and it's not even that heavy. FE7 anima is arguably better than FE6 anima.

[Shadow Mir]

yet javelin and hand axe users are still much better in general than anima users

and why isn't dark "broken?" it's much better than anima in this game and it's not even that heavy. FE7 anima is arguably better than FE6 anima.

True, but the awful accuracy makes me want to cry.

Also, I don't think anima is broken in FE6.

Bold: Please elaborate, because I don't think Elfire getting its weight nearly tripled is better than FE6 anima.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Metal King Slime

[Colonel M]

FE7 has units like Pent, and Erk isn't wtfterrible.

Dark Magic is a little shoddy in this game. Unless you're Niime.

[Anouleth]

yet javelin and hand axe users are still much better in general than anima users

and why isn't dark "broken?" it's much better than anima in this game and it's not even that heavy. FE7 anima is arguably better than FE6 anima.

If you're judging a weapon by the people who use it, it's definitely better. How is Athos, Pent and Erk versus Lugh, Hugh and Nino even a contest?

And if you're not judging a weapon by the people who use it, it's not a contest either. Aircalibur is far lighter than Elfire and only slightly weaker; it makes up for that by also shredding flying units into itty bitty pieces. And then there's Bolting/Forblaze, which had their weight doubled (Bolting also got a cut to hit rate).

[Just call me AL]

Lilina is basically Caeda's statistical opposite seeing as she excels in the areas Caeda doesn't and vice versa. But however, one of the areas where she doesn't excel at is what's generally important to every class, and unlike Caeda, statboosters (which can be given to other people for better results) are pretty much the only way for her to fix the areas where she doesn't excel in. Don't get me wrong, 75% MAG is great and all, but what good does it do if you can't hit enemies with it or if enemies get the upper hand on you while trying to take advantage of it? On top of that, she joins at a point where taking advantage of whatever her bases have to offer is a challenge in itself. She has to be babied constantly, for when she joins, her stats are obviously not up to par, meaning her time against enemies isn't very good. Then we have her support list, which while looking decent on paper, consists of mostly of units that are just as bad if not worse than her. The only ones that are viable on that list are Roy and Gonzales. (It's enough to make me wish Shin was on her support list instead of someone like, oh gee! I don't know! Let's just say Wendy for now. Or Barth. Or Bors. Either one works.) On the plus side, she can heal heavy wounds with staves, but she isn't likely to get past E in White Magic and Guiding Rings have heavy competition in this game. Other than that, she does have a nice Anima rank at base. Oh! And she's Hector's daughter. And, most very likely, Lyn's too.

2/10 (3/10 with bias.)

Edited March 27, 2012 by Little Al

[Anouleth]

Lilina is basically Caeda's statistical opposite seeing as she excels in the areas Caeda doesn't and vice versa.

Like HP and DEF?

[Just call me AL]

Like HP and DEF?

HP's more or less the same while base stats are the only thing separating Caeda's DEF and Lilina's DEF. I was thinking more along the lines of Str (or in this case, Mag), Skl, and Spd.

[dondon151]

And if you're not judging a weapon by the people who use it, it's not a contest either. Aircalibur is far lighter than Elfire and only slightly weaker; it makes up for that by also shredding flying units into itty bitty pieces. And then there's Bolting/Forblaze, which had their weight doubled (Bolting also got a cut to hit rate).

FE7 Thunder has the same MT as FE6 Elfire and Aircalibur. Thunder is also available much earlier in FE7 and has 5 crit to boot (and it's light enough such that the AS loss doesn't really matter for the FE7 anima users). Additionally, FE7 Elfire is stronger than FE6 Elfire and Aircalibur, for the circumstances where trading AS for atk is acceptable (though not really common in FE7 itself due to shitty enemies).

Finally, a big point in favor of FE7 anima from the point of game mechanics is that it's far easier for FE7 anima users to use Thunder (pretty much given since everyone starts with at least a D except for Priscilla) than it is for FE6 anima users to use Aircalibur. Almost everyone has access to a somewhat strong tome from the start in FE7 whereas there's only a single Elfire before chapter 13 in FE6 and it requires a lot of combat for Lilina to reach B anima. And S anima is a really long way away for FE6 anima users (plus Forblaze is the weakest Divine Weapon and gives the worst bonus).

tl;dr FE7 thunder > FE6 anima

I mean, I suppose it does hinge a lot on the quality of anima users in each game (if anima users are shitty, then having Aircalibur is better than having a stronger Thunder). But I'd think that anima users would improve more from having a stronger Thunder than they would from having Aircalibur.

Edited March 27, 2012 by dondon151