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Rate the Unit, Day 27: Muarim


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a bunch of resources out of resources that are in abundance

So one else wants the spirit dusts or mage band, of which there are only two and one respectively? I'd hardly call those abundant. Yes bexp is pretty abundant, but again, there are plenty of other units who want it and make better use of it.

his name is tormod

Like I said, one hand. Plus he can use meteor from the get go. If you break the hammerne staff on meteor, that's 17 uses. Are you really going to use two arms scrolls so he can have 10 more uses of siege tomes?

no, it's going to help tormod because the other fliers won't have as big a chance to get into range as tormod is with a siege tome, not for another 10 turns

Do you know how terrain penalties work in this game? Plus Reyson. He's hardly going to be able to move far enough to sing for your boots!flier, but there's a decent chance he'll be able to for one or more of your normal fliers.

yes helping against a boss is A Pretty Big Deal, ever heard of this unit called rutger

Yes because FE9 bosses = FE6 bosses.

tormod's combat is fine, he gets 3HKO'd in a game where you are rarely ganged up on by more than 2 enemies

He also takes a while to get there and 3HKOed is hardly impressive. Largo's doing better than that, 4HKOed, or more, by all but a handful of enemies in his joining chapter, and his durability is pretty poor.

no, it makes me more likely to use him, hence higher rating

Shinon being a sniper with ridiculous growths makes me more likely to use him. I still gave him like a 3, IIRC 4 with +1 from bias.

nino's minorly useful niche isn't even useful or convenient because she tinks everything after her join chapter in hhm lol

Please replay FE7. Even in HHM, Nino's hardly tinking anything. To be more specific, there's 5 enemies in 28x she can't damage with an elfire tome at most. She's not doing much, but any damage is enough to get the experience. As for after that, there's CoD's massive number of magic users, but then with VoD, Sands of Time, and if you're crazy The Berserker, you're back to the same general enemy deployment as NoF, so she's actually damaging most enemies.

yes because she has 6 move

She also takes no resources (arms scrolls, bexp, spirit dust, mage band) to get basically a trained Tormod. Hell, if you really wanted, you could give her the boots and have her do everything Tormod does, minus healing, without the training. I know this is a ridiculous statement because of how valuable the boots are, but if Tormod's getting like 1000-1500 bexp, arms scrolls, and a band, Calill can get something.

Edited by bottlegnomes
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So one else wants the spirit dusts or mage band, of which there are only two and one respectively? I'd hardly call those abundant. Yes bexp is pretty abundant, but again, there are plenty of other units who want it and make better use of it.

who wants the mage band? nobody

who wants the spirit dusts? nobody

hence, tormod! better than soren (who will have overkill magic) or ilyana (who sucks), the rest are some dumbshit sonic sword users

Like I said, one hand. Plus he can use meteor from the get go. Are you really going to use two arms scrolls on someone so he can have 10 more uses of siege tomes?
Yeah, one hand, and i'm sure you can get more use from meteor, bolting, AND blizzard than from sonic sword mist who has like 14 mag when she promotes
Do you know how terrain penalties work in this game? Plus Reyson. He's hardly going to be able to move far enough to sing for your boots!flier, but there's a decent chance he'll be able to for one or more of your normal fliers.
He'll sing for the boots flier on turn one, but even then it helps a lot to have someone in the back that can hit the boss at 10 range
Yes because FE9 bosses = FE6 bosses.
if that's what i was getting at then i apologize for somehow implying that the bosses have ridiculous evade that tormod will never hit

no i was implying that some of your bosses around chapters in the 20s (as far as chapters are concerned) need something extra to finish them off, and hell even random mooks blocking the way are irritating. Bolting against Fire Dragons (who are powerful and accurate enough) is also good for you. petrine and bertram don't get comfortably killed by marcia and shit, btw

He also takes a while to get there and 3HKOed is hardly impressive. Largo's doing better than that, 4HKOed, or more, by all but a handful of enemies in his joining chapter, and his durability is pretty poor.
getting 3HKO'd is better than what soren or ilyana are doing, and he has more move than them to top it off. it's hardly a while, and getting 3HKO'd isn't a bad thing when you won't get ganged up by 3 enemies in the first place. having a decent evade rate and not-crappy speed due to AS loss from powerful tomes helps
Shinon being a sniper with ridiculous growths makes me more likely to use him. I still gave him like a 3, IIRC 4 with +1 from bias.
dude fuck i am referring to efficiency playthroughs
Please replay FE7. Even in HHM, Nino's hardly tinking anything. To be more specific, there's 5 enemies in 28x she can't damage with an elfire tome at most. She's not doing much, but any damage is enough to get the experience.
An Elfire tome? you mean the thing that, unless she's heavily guarded, will cause her to get mauled? given the status staffs and magic stat in the chapter i dont think her not being heavily guarded is out of the question

besides, ninos niche isn't making anything any more or less reliable aside from EXP rank, but that's the single thing that she is making more reliable. the rest is on her and not doing her any favors. tormod is different, because he makes low turncounts and efficiency more reliable and will give you lower turncounts as a whole, and adds a great deal of flexibility to strategies due to massive move and being able to strike from 10 range

She also takes no resources (arms scrolls, bexp, spirit dust, mage band) to get basically a trained Tormod. Hell, if you really wanted, you could give her the boots and have her do everything Tormod does, minus healing, without the training. I know this is a ridiculous statement because of how valuable the boots are, but if Tormod's getting like 1000-1500 bexp, arms scrolls, and a band, Calill can get something.
why would you give calill boots

at the same time, giving tormod an initial amount of 500 BEXP then BEXPing him with the rest of your units does wonders for him, especially since he can enter combat and not get killed by everything like Soren and Ilyana. and given that BEXP is abundant, nobody gives a crap about spirit dusts, arms scrolls, or mage bands, i think it's more than warranted on tormod. it helps a lot that reyson and danved support give him up to +5 Atk and +25 hit

besides, the fuck are yo doing with the mage band/spirit dusts? giving boyd the bolt axe? having marcia throw the flame lance? hacking staves onto titania because somehow a mounted axe user is just not enough?

and now you are arguing what makes tormod worth it. i stated my opinion, posted fact and my personal experience, and now you're just scoffing at the fact that Tormod was indeed one of my more useful units in my runthrough and that his niche allows him to be *that* useful. no, seriously, i have justified myself plenty and i am sick of this argument about resources, just go read the tier thread for the love of god because i am not responding from here on out

Edited by Lord Raven
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who wants the mage band? nobody

Mist and Rhys for more physic range, a tiny bit of extra healing, and some more offensive oomph (though lol at Rhys in combat). Soren and Ilyana for the same. Calill for the extra damage. Tanith for better combat with the flame lance and sonic sword.

who wants the spirit dusts? nobody

See above.

hence, tormod! better than soren (who will have overkill magic) or ilyana (who sucks), the rest are some dumbshit sonic sword users

Nope.

Yeah, one hand, and i'm sure you can get more use from meteor, bolting, AND blizzard than from sonic sword mist who has like 14 mag when she promotes

One, 20/1 Mist, who has just as much, if not more, right than Tormod to a big bexp dump, has 17.5 magic, 19.5 with one spirit dust, 21.5 with both, and 23.4 with those plus the mage band, which she shouldn't have any real competition for, barring Tormod, by your logic. Two, there are plenty of other people who can use siege tomes without scrolls. Like you said, chapters don't last very long, so 2 extra move shouldn't make that big a difference when you have a 10 range weapon.

He'll sing for the boots flier on turn one, but even then it helps a lot to have someone in the back that can hit the boss at 10 range

I'm a bit skeptical about that, given he has about 5 move untransformed, and he's not transforming on turn one, and your flier will have 11, but I can see why you'd have the flier hold back to let him do that, so I'll concede that.

if that's what i was getting at then i apologize for somehow implying that the bosses have ridiculous evade that tormod will never hit

no i was implying that some of your bosses around chapters in the 20s (as far as chapters are concerned) need something extra to finish them off, and hell even random mooks blocking the way are irritating. Bolting against Fire Dragons (who are powerful and accurate enough) is also good for you. petrine and bertram don't get comfortably killed by marcia and shit, btw

I'm well aware of what you meant, but that doesn't change that it's not nearly as big a deal as you're making it out to be. Most bosses aren't that strong in this game. As for the random mooks are spread thin enough that after your boots!flier kills one, she'll have a clear path to take advantage of her full move. Tormod's not getting close enough to Petrine, between walls and potholes, to actually use meteor by the time your fliers get there. Bertram's on a ridiculously open map so all of your mounted units can take advantage of their full move, and even on a map that big, it'll only take them four or so turns to get to him, which only puts them about a turn, at most, behind your main flier, and this can be made up for with shoving Reyson. At best, Tormod is saving you maybe a turn here.

getting 3HKO'd is better than what soren or ilyana are doing, and he has more move than them to top it off. it's hardly a while, and getting 3HKO'd isn't a bad thing when you won't get ganged up by 3 enemies in the first place. having a decent evade rate and not-crappy speed due to AS loss from powerful tomes helps

That's still not good durability. And if you're never getting attacked by more than two enemies, Soren and Ilyana really can't have that much trouble surviving. Also, considering we're talking about siege tomes as Tormod's selling point, I doubt his durability will ever actually come into play, because he'll either have to have a different spell traded to him, which is inconvenient, or shouldn't be getting attacked because he has a tome that makes him useless on EP.

dude fuck i am referring to efficiency playthroughs

And? It still doesn't change my point.

An Elfire tome? you mean the thing that, unless she's heavily guarded, will cause her to get mauled? given the status staffs and magic stat in the chapter i dont think her not being heavily guarded is out of the question

Yes, because she's sooo durable with a lighter tome.

besides, ninos niche isn't making anything any more or less reliable aside from EXP rank, but that's the single thing that she is making more reliable. the rest is on her and not doing her any favors. tormod is different, because he makes low turncounts and efficiency more reliable and will give you lower turncounts as a whole, and adds a great deal of flexibility to strategies due to massive move and being able to strike from 10 range

Now you're really setting a double standard. Since when is TC instantly more important that exp rank in FE7? As for Tormod, his niche isn't doing more than saving you a turn on a few chapters.

why would you give calill boots

Why would you give Tormod at least 500 bexp (when you could give Jill or Marcia a few more levels), the mage band, or the spirit dusts? If he gets something, why shouldn't she? This obviously isn't a case of optimal distribution, so stop trying to sandbag her.

at the same time, giving tormod an initial amount of 500 BEXP then BEXPing him with the rest of your units does wonders for him, especially since he can enter combat and not get killed by everything like Soren and Ilyana. and given that BEXP is abundant, nobody gives a crap about spirit dusts, arms scrolls, or mage bands, i think it's more than warranted on tormod. it helps a lot that reyson and danved support give him up to +5 Atk and +25 hit

Giving Jill or Marcia 500 more bexp does wonders for them. I really doubt 13/1 Tormod has the durability to do much more than 7/0 Tormod or any other mage. Also, 13/1 Tormod has 27 attack with bolting. That's hardly impressive, especially if the bosses are as strong as you're making them out to be. As for the mage band and spirit dusts, see the fist part of my response. Also, how are you justifying Tormod being in support range of Reyson, or even deploying Devdan, who, while an amazing character, should never see the light of day in an efficiency PT?

besides, the fuck are yo doing with the mage band/spirit dusts? giving boyd the bolt axe? having marcia throw the flame lance? hacking staves onto titania because somehow a mounted axe user is just not enough?

It's funny how stuck you are on this. It's almost like you forgot every other magic and potential magic weapon user exists. Also, nice strawmen.

and now you are arguing what makes tormod worth it. i stated my opinion, posted fact and my personal experience, and now you're just scoffing at the fact that Tormod was indeed one of my more useful units in my runthrough and that his niche allows him to be *that* useful. no, seriously, i have justified myself plenty and i am sick of this argument about resources, just go read the tier thread for the love of god because i am not responding from here on out

All I'm doing is wondering how you can justify giving Tormod a higher rating than other units, especially when you've said they're better. I'm also curious to see if you actually keep your word about not responding.

Edited by bottlegnomes
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looks like i didn't

but i won't be responding to any points, because i've been through this same exact argument before, and at this point i'm repeating myself. i find it hard to believe i wasn't being clear in saying that i rated based on how often i would use them and why i would use Tormod more often than someone like makalov or muarim

this is not a tier thread

its not hard

Edited by Lord Raven
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Why cant people just state their bias and go on with their lives? I dont think i threw a hissy fit in the Soren thread about his ratings. Yeah sadfaced but you know...

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I was hardly the only one. And I don't think mad is the word you're looking for.

SF and contrary opinions, you know

florina, i would if i had any, i stated the conditions under which i am making my arguments and thats that, hate to go all mjmerizian on you like that but jesus -_-

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