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Editing the FE6 Patch


Popo
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82 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the name "Miledy" be kept or retranslated to something else?

  2. 2. Should the name "Yuno" be changed to "Juno"?



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Update: Marthur was kind enough to send me one of FireLizard's email addresses, but unfortunately, my message to him has bounced back as undeliverable. Raven is helping us by trying to get in touch with Eaichu, but has not heard back from him to my knowledge. I also contacted Superbus about finding emails/accounts/etc. for FireLizard and Rosa, but he doesn't have any recent contact information for them, and made it sound like they've been MIA for a few years now.

Edit:

Shawn said it was alright to use it in a patch!

Edited by Popo
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Firelizard has been MIA for 5 year now. I sent him a message on LJ, which was the last place I ever saw him before he dissappeared, but I do not believe he will respond.

However, recall that translations can not be copyrighted unless they were made, authorized, or commissioned by the original work's copyright holder. The only exception to this rule is if they copyright has expired and is in the Public Domain. That's why you can sell a translation of the Poetic Edda, but you can't sell a translation of Harry Potter unless you payed fees to do so or were commissioned to do so.

Because of this, I'm going to overrule you here Sirius. I also aided (although I was not credited, and did a very small amount of work) in the original FE6 patch, and considering Popo is working on improving that patch, I see no issue with it. Also, keep in mind that the (non-existent) issues with copyright would really only affect me were someone to act on them. In the event that there was an actual legal issue relating to this forum, I would be the one responsibility falls on given that the domain is registered in my name and I pay for the hosting. Because the responsibility ultimately falls on me, and I find this a non-issue, I see it fit to overrule this with full confidence.

TL;DR: Popo can distribute her patch here.

Sirius, if you still take issue with this, you can PM me about it. I'll be more quick to respond if you PM me.

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Firelizard has been MIA for 5 year now. I sent him a message on LJ, which was the last place I ever saw him before he dissappeared, but I do not believe he will respond.

However, recall that translations can not be copyrighted unless they were made, authorized, or commissioned by the original work's copyright holder. The only exception to this rule is if they copyright has expired and is in the Public Domain. That's why you can sell a translation of the Poetic Edda, but you can't sell a translation of Harry Potter unless you payed fees to do so or were commissioned to do so.

Because of this, I'm going to overrule you here Sirius. I also aided (although I was not credited, and did a very small amount of work) in the original FE6 patch, and considering Popo is working on improving that patch, I see no issue with it. Also, keep in mind that the (non-existent) issues with copyright would really only affect me were someone to act on them. In the event that there was an actual legal issue relating to this forum, I would be the one responsibility falls on given that the domain is registered in my name and I pay for the hosting. Because the responsibility ultimately falls on me, and I find this a non-issue, I see it fit to overrule this with full confidence.

TL;DR: Popo can distribute her patch here.

Sirius, if you still take issue with this, you can PM me about it. I'll be more quick to respond if you PM me.

I think it's a bit unfair to single Sirius out here, as the reason for the decision he made was largely due to the sprite theft rules present in the code of conduct. There is a big double standard here, and Marthur pointed it out in the other thread. I intend to change the rules if this is the way we are going to handle these situations from now on.

Either way, I obviously agree with your decision, as I had talked to all parties involved privately about it last night :P:. (yes trent, I was gonna post and chew everyone out, but I stopped. Too bad for you and SoC >:P)

Edited by Tangerine
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I think it's a bit unfair to single Sirius out here, as the reason for the decision he made was largely due to the sprite theft rules present in the code of conduct. There is a big double standard here, and Marthur pointed it out in the other thread. I intend to change the rules if this is the way we are going to handle these situations from now on.

Either way, I obviously agree with your decision, as I had talked to all parties involved privately about it last night :P:. (yes trent, I was gonna post and chew everyone out, but I stopped >:P)

I'm not trying to single anyone out, his just seemed to be the main postings that gave a ruling one way or another. Sprite theft is inherently different because it's an artistic derivative work. Those are copyright-able by law. Translations are not because although it does take a lot of work to do, it is still the creative work of someone else. Granted, sprite rips can NOT be copyrighted, so that's something to keep in mind.

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It wasn't the legal issue that I was talking about, I don't care about that; none of this is actually under copyright law legally. It's the fact that we've been asked to respect spriters' work by not allowing them to be used without permission. It is pretty silly to enforce, say, splice theft in particular, and then not enforce someone's translated script being distributed. We wouldn't get in trouble for letting people use other people's sprites, and nobody can ACTUALLY take action against anyone for it as things stand.

What I'm basically saying is that Sirius made the right call as a moderator, so I just don't want this looking bad on him. I'm not challenging anything, just making sure people understand that he didn't do anything wrong :P:.

Edited by Tangerine
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Splice theft doesn't give any credit though, and it's not as if Popo or General Banhisnameistoohardtoremember didn't try in good faith to contact Firelizard to ask for his permission to use his translations. It's also not as though they're going around saying that what their distributing was made solely by themselves with no aid from any others.

I'm not trying to paint anyone out to have made a mistake or been the bad guy here, FYI. I'm just stepping in to give some final authority with what to do. I can see how there seems to be a discrepancy in the rules here, but honestly if Firelizard doesn't have an active email listed anymore (Protip: he doesn't) and there's no feasible way to contact the guy, then it really is a non-issue.

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Splice theft doesn't give any credit though, and it's not as if Popo or General Banhisnameistoohardtoremember didn't try in good faith to contact Firelizard to ask for his permission to use his translations. It's also not as though their going around saying that what their distributing was made solely by themselves with no aid from any others.

Yeah, that's why I have been in favor of just letting them post it from the start. If you put that much effort into looking for someone to get permission, then there isn't much point in disallowing their project on our forum. I had both of their threads unlocked last night for that reason, but I also figured we should talk about it together before actually allowing downloads to be posted.

@bold. JYO YOU SAID YOU HAVE BEEN AWAY BECAUSE OF SCHOOL. You be lying to me Jyo. That is not a good slavebutler >:O.

edit: (haha, you edited it out, but I caught it :D) And yeah, I intend to change the rules to better fit the way we handled this situation, if that's how you wanna do it. There should be consistency, otherwise mods (and us!) are going to get caught up in situations like this more in the future. I also didn't say you were trying to make him look bad, just that that is how users might see him without clarification. He was getting a little bit of crap in some chat rooms last night, for example :P.

Edited by Tangerine
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What I'm basically saying is that Sirius made the right call as a moderator, so I just don't want this looking bad on him. I'm not challenging anything, just making sure people understand that he didn't do anything wrong :P:.

I appreciate it but don't worry about it, it isn't necessary. I just went with what seemed consistent with the current rules since the issue on copyright in terms of translations doesn't seem to be decisive. Ultimately, Jyo decides how these rulings are handled and I have no problem with the current decision taken, personally I figured that Firelizard would probably not give a damn about any of this, my actions were just to be consistent.

Splice theft doesn't give any credit though, and it's not as if Popo or General Banhisnameistoohardtoremember didn't try in good faith to contact Firelizard to ask for his permission to use his translations.

Technically it seemed only Popo did which is why I voted to keep her thread open, but I figured that isn't good reasoning for such so I didn't argue when it was said that both should be closed since that's inconsistent otherwise.

Edited by Sirius
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I appreciate it but don't worry about it, it isn't necessary. I just went with what seemed consistent with the current rules since the issue on copyright in terms of translations doesn't seem to be decisive. Ultimately, Jyo decides how these rulings are handled and I have no problem with the current decision taken, personally I figured that Firelizard would probably not give a damn about any of this, my actions were just to be consistent.

Yeah, I understand. It's just that the general public will not, so I felt I should make a post about it. You guys are mine, I have to protect you :(.

Technically it seemed only Popo did which is why I voted to keep her thread open, but I figured that isn't good reasoning for such so I didn't argue when it was said that both should be closed since that's inconsistent otherwise.

That's really the only thing you guys did wrong; you and fox didn't exactly look like a team last night! But I already talked to you guys about it, so no need to get into that again :P:.

Anyway, glad things are back on track. So get back on topic too!

Edited by Tangerine
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Update: Marthur was kind enough to send me one of FireLizard's email addresses, but unfortunately, my message to him has bounced back as undeliverable. Raven is helping us by trying to get in touch with Eaichu, but has not heard back from him to my knowledge. I also contacted Superbus about finding emails/accounts/etc. for FireLizard and Rosa, but he doesn't have any recent contact information for them, and made it sound like they've been MIA for a few years now.

Edit:

my presence has been requested here

my response is as follows:

Chuck+Norris+Thumbs+up.jpg

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my presence has been requested here

my response is as follows:

Chuck+Norris+Thumbs+up.jpg

Thank you, baby. ;__;

But for real, thanks. I feel like your approval gives some legitimacy to all this. Same with Josh and Twilkitri. :3

Edited by Popo
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I'd just like to ask.

How hard could it be to edit text? The menus, the descriptions, maybe even the dialogue.

It took me about an hour to get comfortable with the process because I didn't account for things like playing with the editor or loading portraits. It's not so bad now. :3

It's taking a while because I just don't have the time to edit at the moment. I really want to do a good job with this and make it substantially better, but that takes time, patience, and some dedication that I can't spare at the moment.

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What exactly is wrong with "End"? <_<

Inconsistent with the other GBA titles where it's 'Wait'

...

I mean I personally couldn't give a flying rats arse, but it bugs some people.

Incidentally, Shin's been reporting constant problems even with the 'fixed' FEditor, so I assume this project still has THAT major hurdle to jump.

god fucking damn it FE6 why wont you let us love you?

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What exactly is wrong with "End"? <_<

It's the command for ending the player phase.

Surely having two commands named End that have different functions would be confusing, right?

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I'm not trying to single anyone out, his just seemed to be the main postings that gave a ruling one way or another. Sprite theft is inherently different because it's an artistic derivative work. Those are copyright-able by law. Translations are not because although it does take a lot of work to do, it is still the creative work of someone else. Granted, sprite rips can NOT be copyrighted, so that's something to keep in mind.

In the United States, the Copyright Act defines "derivative work" in 17 U.S.C. § 101

A “derivative work” is a work based upon one or more pre-existing works, such as a translation, musical arrangement, dramatization, fictionalization, motion picture version, sound recording, art reproduction, abridgment, condensation, or any other form in which a work may be recast, transformed, or adapted. A work consisting of editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or other modifications which, as a whole, represent an original work of authorship, is a “derivative work”.

whoops

Edited by Marthur
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In the United States, the Copyright Act defines "derivative work" in 17 U.S.C. § 101

A “derivative work” is a work based upon one or more pre-existing works, such as a translation, musical arrangement, dramatization, fictionalization, motion picture version, sound recording, art reproduction, abridgment, condensation, or any other form in which a work may be recast, transformed, or adapted. A work consisting of editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or other modifications which, as a whole, represent an original work of authorship, is a “derivative work”.

whoops

Please don't start this shit storm up again.

TO TALK ABOUT SHIT THAT'S ACTUALLY IMPORTANT. Popo, Bonnie, editing the text isn't as simple as going into FEditor and changing the text, there is an 'End' at 0CFE but I don't know what it's changing, when I changed it to wait neither option changed.

Again though, I don't see the need, at no point is it ever unclear what the 'End' in a characters option list means, and if for some odd reason someone is confused, there's an in-game translated tutorial or just pressing the R button (or is it the L, I forget) to see the information.

I'm not someone who need ALL MY FAIA EMBUREMUS MUS USE CONSISISTAN TERMINOLOGO So long as everything is clear.

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editing the text isn't as simple as going into FEditor and changing the text, there is an 'End' at 0CFE but I don't know what it's changing, when I changed it to wait neither option changed.

Argh.

Why do you hate being edited, FE6?

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