Smiley Jim Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) Doing this because there wasn't a B/W tier list on this forum, or didn't see one. Trade evos will be considered, but that is all trading will be used for. With this in mind, all trade evo Pokes are tiered with the assumption that they reach their final form. This may change, in which case, I will add '(no evo)', to the Poke's name and give him a lower placement(because, let's face it. Gurdurr and Boldore are nowhere near as good as Conkeldurr and Gigalith.) Also, no discussion of Reshiram/Zekrom. I don't really want the story spoiled for people who inevitably have not played the game. While this is supposed to be an 'efficient' tier list, this is not one for a speedrun. There is a difference, you know. However, you know the (Exca)drill: Pokemon that help you beat the game faster go up higher. The tier list is being ordered. SS Tier: Sawk Darumaka S Tier: Scraggy Sandile Tepig Drilbur Archen A Tier: Lilipup Sigilyph Oshawott Timburr Cobalion Throh B Tier: Roggenrola Petilil Ducklett Dwebble Tirtouga Panpour Virizion Axew Deerling Terrakion C Tier: Joltik Blitzle Sewaddle Vanillite Basculin Tympole Druddigon Solosis Gothita Durant Litwick Pansage Patrat Venipede Cottonee Ferroseed Smugleaf Snivy Mincinno D Tier: Thundurus Tornadus Klink Emolga Bouffalant Marcatus Mienfoo Golett Elgyem Pansear Karrablast Munna Cubchoo Frillish Woobat E Tier: Heatmor Pidove Yamask Alomomola Audino Cryogonal Pawniard Rufflet Trubbish Foongus Stunfisk Shelmet F Tier: Purrloin Tynamo Vullaby Deino Larvesta Current Arguments: Ferroseed up. (Quashed) Tornadus up. Drilbur down. Lilipup up. Archen down. (Quashed) Joltik down. (Validated) Tepig down. Basculin down. (Validated) Throh down. Edited April 25, 2012 by Mercenary James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 where's deerling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Lillipup is defs not A Tier. It should be at least S Tier, because it's offense is ridic throughout most of the game. From the very start. It's really strong with early Take Down, and it only gets better. Sawk should be at the top, imo. It cleans out every gym quite easily with the right tools (the only one that's a problem is 3, and possibly 6). And has ridic stats for the entire game, only drifting out at the end. There's probs more I can think of, but this'll do for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedoom Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) I still vouch for Throh being above Sawk. It may be slow but it learns moves perfect for its spd stat. Throh's bide basically means it can take out a lot of 'boss' pokemon in the gyms. Its great at dealing with Watchog, Zebstrika, Haxorus, and perhaps it can deal with one of the pokemon in Skyla's gym too. Fighting types are also awesome for the league.(IMO any fighting type should at least be S tier, A tier at the least. Throh and Sawk belong in SS) Edited April 12, 2012 by Marth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) I still vouch for Throh being above Sawk. It may be slow but it learns moves perfect for its spd stat. Throh's bide basically means it can take out a lot of 'boss' pokemon in the gyms. Its great at dealing with Watchog, Zebstrika, Haxorus, and perhaps it can deal with one of the pokemon in Skyla's gym too. Fighting types are also awesome for the league.(IMO any fighting type should at least be S tier, A tier at the least. Throh and Sawk belong in SS) Bide's pretty unreliable, really, since you're hoping your opponent actually attacks you in the interim, rather than buffing themselves or debuffing you... Edited April 12, 2012 by Metal King Slime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedoom Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Bide's pretty unreliable, really, since you're hoping your opponent actually attacks you in the interim, rather than buffing themselves or debuffing you... Dunno, I've always found bide reliable against the boss pokemon I mentioned. Also you could alternatively teach dig/payback for it to deal with certain pokemon, but eh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) Dunno, I've always found bide reliable against the boss pokemon I mentioned. Also you could alternatively teach dig/payback for it to deal with certain pokemon, but eh. Ehhh, I just think hoping that you actually get attacked so you can return double the damage you took in the interim is not good strategy. I'd consider it better to just attack. Especially in Watchog's case - what good is Bide if you're asleep? Edited April 12, 2012 by Metal King Slime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Jim Posted April 12, 2012 Author Share Posted April 12, 2012 I still vouch for Throh being above Sawk. It may be slow but it learns moves perfect for its spd stat. Throh's bide basically means it can take out a lot of 'boss' pokemon in the gyms. Its great at dealing with Watchog, Zebstrika, Haxorus, and perhaps it can deal with one of the pokemon in Skyla's gym too. Fighting types are also awesome for the league.(IMO any fighting type should at least be S tier, A tier at the least. Throh and Sawk belong in SS) I'm going to agree with MKS and say that using Bide is not that good of an idea because you are setting yourself up to be attacked for two turns. Yeah,... this is not the type of strategy that I would want to use when clearing gym battles. And like he said as well, Watchog has Hypnosis, and it can and will use it while you are using Bide. That isn't exactly what you want happening. Throh is staying where he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Comparing Sawk to Throh is no contest, Sawk wins hands down. Starting off with Double Kick and having actual speed along with Sturdy=awesome. As for Lillipup, I agree he should move down. Take Down STAB is cute until you get to the point where that sort of thing is normal, which point he dies in usefulness immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Ferroseed is at least a tier too low. About the only thing that it doesn't like is Fire (Fighting's debatable, because of its massive Defense stat and Iron Barbs). It's got amazing Defense and respectable Special Defense. Slap Eviolite on it and watch it take very little damage (or just give it a Lucky Egg and have it level like mad). Once it evolves, it gets Power Whip, which dishes out amazing damage, even to things that resist it. In-game, it can flip off Skyla (it's not dying unless Air Cutter crits, or you got a horrid nature) and it trivializes the Dragon gym. It's also my Pokemon of choice for dealing with Bouffalant (all of them). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 As for Lillipup, I agree he should move down. Take Down STAB is cute until you get to the point where that sort of thing is normal, which point he dies in usefulness immediately. 1) I never said for it to move down, ever 2) And that point doesn't come until... much later. Return STAB hurts a lot, and Stoutland's stats are good until you reach the E4, at which point I agree, it's usefulness is limited. But until then, it's still very strong. Did I also mention early evolution? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 I'm not really seeing Drilbur as belonging in SS tier when it doesn't start wrecking from the word go like Darumaka and Sawk do (if caught in Wellspring Cave, it has an awful earlygame until it gets Dig, and if not, you have to wait unil Chargestone Cave)... Also, what's Mienfoo doing so high? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasori Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 This looks like a good list, but I have one question. Why is Durant so high? it has great speed, defense and attack, but it is only available in the victory road. Is such a short time enough to put it in the top of the C tier? Its moveset looks kind of meh as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 This looks like a good list, but I have one question. Why is Durant so high? it has great speed, defense and attack, but it is only available in the victory road. Is such a short time enough to put it in the top of the C tier? If you couldn't tell, the tiers are unordered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasori Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Oops sorry. Hahah I skipped right to the list, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 I think Tornadus might have a small case to go to C Tier. It doesn't really require much to get Air Slash (43), and I think Focus Blast is possible to get (Wellspring Cave). Given those two moves alone in mind, that gives Tornadus a nice edge versus two of the four E4 members. Grass Knot is also easy to obtain for some extra coverage (Jellicent I guess... and Golurkmoar). I'll give you that its a late capture, but it does come pretty good out of the box with a little TM use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Jim Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 Updating to let you all know that the tier list is now ordered, so there is a semi balance of discussion. Have at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 ITT: None of our suggestions were taken. Thanks, TC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Jim Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 ITT: None of our suggestions were taken. Thanks, TC. I have addressed that issue, and have put up a current arguments list. I will then review the cases, and deliver a statement on whether I and other debaters agree with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 What you missed: Drilbur down. Lilipup down. Mienfoo down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Jim Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 What you missed: Drilbur down. Lilipup down. Mienfoo down? Dealt with, except that in Lilipup's case, Manix was arguing him into S tier, not into a lower tier, and it got shut down by Grandjackal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 why are the musketeers each separated by a tier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Jim Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 (edited) why are the musketeers each separated by a tier? I originally had Terrakion in C due to his outrageously late join time. I had a talk with another guy saying that he`s still quite effective in the E4 fights(mostly Grimsley and N, but he hits one of Shauntal and Caitlin's Mons super effective with Rock Slide, and Fighting is SE against 3 of Ghetsis's Mons), which is why I put him at the bottom of B, below Axew. Edited April 16, 2012 by Mercenary James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I feel a bit bothered by Archen; since that ability a.k.a Defeatist... Urghh... I agree on Ferroseed moving higher; that Power whip hurts and can resist most stuff not named Fire; and laugh at the Water and Ice types. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 (edited) Defeatist won't activate often when Archen is rolling the place with STAB Acrobatics and Rock Slide / Stone Edge. He's got a pretty effective movepool to hit many times super effective. Even if he can't, 165 STAB Acrobatics is going to hurt off base 112 Atk. It also has creative ways of defeating the enemy at such low health like Endeavor. Even if Defeatist activates, chances are he can still hit the 2HKO marker provided that the Pokemon isn't stupidly durable. Edited April 16, 2012 by Colonel M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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