Am I the only one, who dislikes the idea of lunatic+?

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I have not played many FE parts and I have only beaten FE7-10 (FE9 hard; not maniac) on the highest difficulty yet. I tend to play FE11 on merciless soon.

Yesterday I started my first attempt on lunatic+ causal, although even lunatic was annoying for me.

I finished the prologue and chapter 1, so I stucked in chapter 2 "Shephards". The enemies with their luna+ wrecked Freddy up. After resetting around 20 times, I gave up and I am not going to continue it!

I hate the whole idea that you have to use a "Jagen" against enemies with broken stats and skills, which always activate. The stats of the enemies are ok for this difficulty (same like lunatic I believe) but their skills ruin the strategical part to my mind. This is almost complety luckbased and this is not what I expect for a FE game!

So I prefer the little but interesting feature in FE10 that the movement range of the enemies is disabled. This was fair and a great strategical feature, which should return at least as a menu option.

[Shadow Mir]

You're not the only one. Personally, I feel that it's just tedious. And ditto for FE10's hard mode, given that removing the ability to see enemy move range was a rather arbitrary change...

[PuffPuff]

And ditto for FE10's hard mode, given that removing the ability to see enemy move range was a rather arbitrary change...

FE1(NES)&2 also had no ranges.

-----

Try Duel Guards.

Their your best friend against Luna+. It may be a luck based factor after all. -.-

Without reducing these enemies down (Which these enemies absolutely get these skills at random), or no Duel Guards, you have no hope to win.

http://www.ign.com/wikis/fire-emblem-awakening/Easter_Eggs_and_Secrets

Know what your really up against. Even Fire Emblem masters struggle to beat it!

Edited April 18, 2014 by Dark_Huntress

[SB.]

FE1(NES)&2 also had no ranges.

this doesn't make it ok 8 games later

[VincentASM]

Nah, you're definitely not alone.

Lunatic+ is a total mess because of the enemy skills and how they're haphazardly allocated.

It wouldn't be so annoying if the skills were either fixed or less powerful, so it's not such a huge trial and error fest.

[XeKr]

I think you’ll find you’re in the majority opinion, but a few of the people who have investigated Lunatic+ the most have a different opinion. (incidentally, I personally find it tedious too...)

EDIT: Also, I'm fairly certain most people don't like the movement range thingy in FE10. Just making you count doesn't add too, too much.

Edited April 18, 2014 by XeKr

[Comet]

I wouldn't mind the skills that much except for the fact that chapter 2 exists. >_<

Edited April 18, 2014 by Comet

[Interceptor]

I don't know why people expect Lunatic+ to be some kind of happiness-flavored theme park. It is supposed to be the ultimate test for experts, and that's exactly what it is. If you want to create perfect eugenics pairs, make Donnel the king of your Army of Misfits, or mash START on Enemy Phase until you hit the end credits, that's what the other modes are for.

Lunatic+ is not "luck-based". The careful observer will note that all of the potential extra skills activate/work 100% of the time, and only the distribution is random. Once a chapter starts, the skills are what they are. The game board has been placed, and it's time to solve the puzzle. Few of the configurations are TRULY impossible, just really difficult, and things get easier as you go along and have more flexibility in terms of units.

I've noticed that people who have trouble with this mode, have at least one of these three things in common with each other:

• A non-existent or busted strategy (i.e. long term plans)
• Poor turn-by-turn tactics (i.e. knowing how to deal with Lunatic+ skills)
• Inability to make sacrifices (i.e. using consumables, or allowing units to die)

Take for example, Chapter 2. If you planned ahead and over-leveled a +DEF Avatar in P/1, and use a sacrificial lamb to either 1) buy time or 2) get your Pair to a fort, Chapter 2 goes from "holy hell this is impossible" to "OK this is hard but I can make it through most of the time".

Lunatic+ is not perfect in terms of difficulty curve, but it's 90% of the way there, and generally a pretty good test of your prowess. It's not for everyone.

[Tables]

I've played Lunatic+ twice, once on Classic and once on Newcomer, and both times came to the same conclusion: It just isn't fun any more. It requires too much checking back and forth on every single enemy, to make sure I can properly handle it, to make sure there's no (or minimal) chance of multiple enemies who can attack managing a kill, to make sure that the chance of me getting RNG'd is as low as possible, and after checking everything and ending my turn, I land a crit and so get attacked by an extra counter guy and die on the counterattack, wow, this is SO FUN!

[Jotari]

I had an idea for a mostly enemy only skill that obscures all the enemies stats including movement leaving a lot guess work based on classes to get by. I think it would be pretty damn trollish but it could be an interesting skill for a player to use if they ever give us online vrs mode again.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

FE1(NES)&2 also had no ranges.

-----

Try Duel Guards.

Their your best friend against Luna+. It may be a luck based factor after all. -.-

Without reducing these enemies down (Which these enemies absolutely get these skills at random), or no Duel Guards, you have no hope to win.

http://www.ign.com/wikis/fire-emblem-awakening/Easter_Eggs_and_Secrets

Know what your really up against. Even Fire Emblem masters struggle to beat it!

True. Never noticed yet.

Great tip. Thx!

I don't know why people expect Lunatic+ to be some kind of happiness-flavored theme park. It is supposed to be the ultimate test for experts, and that's exactly what it is. If you want to create perfect eugenics pairs, make Donnel the king of your Army of Misfits, or mash START on Enemy Phase until you hit the end credits, that's what the other modes are for.

Lunatic+ is not "luck-based". The careful observer will note that all of the potential extra skills activate/work 100% of the time, and only the distribution is random. Once a chapter starts, the skills are what they are. The game board has been placed, and it's time to solve the puzzle. Few of the configurations are TRULY impossible, just really difficult, and things get easier as you go along and have more flexibility in terms of units.

I've noticed that people who have trouble with this mode, have at least one of these three things in common with each other:

• A non-existent or busted strategy (i.e. long term plans)
• Poor turn-by-turn tactics (i.e. knowing how to deal with Lunatic+ skills)
• Inability to make sacrifices (i.e. using consumables, or allowing units to die)

Take for example, Chapter 2. If you planned ahead and over-leveled a +DEF Avatar in P/1, and use a sacrificial lamb to either 1) buy time or 2) get your Pair to a fort, Chapter 2 goes from "holy hell this is impossible" to "OK this is hard but I can make it through most of the time".

Lunatic+ is not perfect in terms of difficulty curve, but it's 90% of the way there, and generally a pretty good test of your prowess. It's not for everyone.

The main problem I have is that I have to expect on a dual attack of my partner unit or a unlucky critical hit by an enemy everytime. So more enemies can attack Frederick. That is the luckbased thing, I meant.

I send Frederick + Chrom to the fort. But it did not work. The enemies do too much damage to Freddy and the fighters with hawkeye are just a pain in the ass.

Thx for your advises, but like I said I will not contiue this lunatic+ at this point. Maybe if I got more time.

I think you’ll find you’re in the majority opinion, but a few of the people who have investigated Lunatic+ the most have a different opinion. (incidentally, I personally find it tedious too...)

EDIT: Also, I'm fairly certain most people don't like the movement range thingy in FE10. Just making you count doesn't add too, too much.

I think, I just have not the patience for this difficulty. Hobby strategists would read my topic with a shake of the head, which is absolutely understandable. Lunatic+ is possible to beat.

But it is kinda cheap for me that non promoted enemies got skills, which your own units cannot even get. I would even reject it, if the enemies had higher levels and spend much more experience. This is not the kind of challenge, I like.

Edited April 18, 2014 by MisterIceTeaPeach

[Cowboy Karimov]

Personally, I would have much preferred FE12's Lunatic Reverse mode over Lunatic+. Why? It's a lot more fair even to have the enemy go first rather than have them pick out OP skills out of a hat. It's still better than Lunatic Trickle-Down, which would have a 1:10 ratio of strong enemies to weak ones, with the strong ones saying "Well, our strength is going to go down into the weak enemies". Sometimes capitalism is strange, but it's the only way to get things done.

[ViewtifulBo]

Call me crazy but I actually kinda like it. Its brutal and unrelenting and very challenging. Those enemy skills I agree are totally overpowered but even though I still haven't beat it yet, I dunno its kinda like how Shadow Dragon's Merciless mode was my first time through: I wanna keep coming back for more.

[riariadne]

The skills themselves are not the problem but the random distribution is what's pretty annoying. I think it would be a lot more fun if they were put on enemies as is appropriate to make some different from others while still remaining challenging.

[Airship Canon]

The skills themselves are not the problem but the random distribution is what's pretty annoying. I think it would be a lot more fun if they were put on enemies as is appropriate to make some different from others while still remaining challenging.

The concept of L+ is based on remaining challenging at all times- no matter how experienced you are, L+, by its random nature will never be the same.

You cannot create a step-by-step for L+ in the manner that you can for other FE difficulties.

Now, yes, that does create a lot of issues early, like notably Chapter 2.

Some things that would make L+ better without undermining it conceptually:

• Introducing Pavise+/Aegis+, [but not Counter] on C2 to cut back on the amount Luna+
• Locked map sets for early maps [P - C3]: Semi-random distribution [basically a set number of random maps that are tested and proved beatable (not necessarily beatable with the go-to strategies, but beatable)].
• An option to "Lock In" map sets instead of Randomize every load, such that if something goes wrong, you can reload that specific map, without having to have a back up or without using Casual.

Other than that, L+ is a pretty solid difficulty. It's basically meta-aware and exists to counter a lot of popular strategies. Overall, it's conceptually good, and the later-game execution is solid, despite the awful early game shenanigans.

[Nobody]

Yeah, lunatic+ is a terrible difficulty, mainly because the skills are randomly generated. If they were fixed, i think it could be ok.

Yet, i've beaten it five times now, all on classic >_>.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Nobody

[Interceptor]

The main problem I have is that I have to expect on a dual attack of my partner unit or a unlucky critical hit by an enemy everytime. So more enemies can attack Frederick. That is the luckbased thing, I meant.

I send Frederick + Chrom to the fort. But it did not work. The enemies do too much damage to Freddy and the fighters with hawkeye are just a pain in the ass.

The thing is, you don't have to do that, and in fact it's not even a great strategy to use Frederick and Chrom early. Avatar is a better investment than either of them, because of Veteran and the ability to choose Asset/Flaw stats.

I just blew the dust off my 3DS, and ran through earlygame Lunatic+ quickly. I'm rusty, but took out Prologue in one shot, Ch. 1 in two (made a movement mistake), and now I'm on Ch. 2 with a level 10 +DEF/-SKL Avatar. All I have to do is get the Fred/Avatar pair to the fort (which is possible with one or two sacrifices), and that's a wrap for that one.

There is some luck component early on (hit rates, crits, Luna+ density etc) but it quickly falls by the wayside. It just requires a good approach. Lunatic+ is pretty straightforward about what it is: a challenge for experts.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

The thing is, you don't have to do that, and in fact it's not even a great strategy to use Frederick and Chrom early. Avatar is a better investment than either of them, because of Veteran and the ability to choose Asset/Flaw stats.

I just blew the dust off my 3DS, and ran through earlygame Lunatic+ quickly. I'm rusty, but took out Prologue in one shot, Ch. 1 in two (made a movement mistake), and now I'm on Ch. 2 with a level 10 +DEF/-SKL Avatar. All I have to do is get the Fred/Avatar pair to the fort (which is possible with one or two sacrifices), and that's a wrap for that one.

There is some luck component early on (hit rates, crits, Luna+ density etc) but it quickly falls by the wayside. It just requires a good approach. Lunatic+ is pretty straightforward about what it is: a challenge for experts.

Hmmm... it sounds really good. I think I did a mistake with my avatar, when I chosed speed instead of defense as his "strength" point.

[Shadow Mir]

I don't know why people expect Lunatic+ to be some kind of happiness-flavored theme park. It is supposed to be the ultimate test for experts, and that's exactly what it is. If you want to create perfect eugenics pairs, make Donnel the king of your Army of Misfits, or mash START on Enemy Phase until you hit the end credits, that's what the other modes are for.

Lunatic+ is not "luck-based". The careful observer will note that all of the potential extra skills activate/work 100% of the time, and only the distribution is random. Once a chapter starts, the skills are what they are. The game board has been placed, and it's time to solve the puzzle. Few of the configurations are TRULY impossible, just really difficult, and things get easier as you go along and have more flexibility in terms of units.

I've noticed that people who have trouble with this mode, have at least one of these three things in common with each other:

• A non-existent or busted strategy (i.e. long term plans)
• Poor turn-by-turn tactics (i.e. knowing how to deal with Lunatic+ skills)
• Inability to make sacrifices (i.e. using consumables, or allowing units to die)

Take for example, Chapter 2. If you planned ahead and over-leveled a +DEF Avatar in P/1, and use a sacrificial lamb to either 1) buy time or 2) get your Pair to a fort, Chapter 2 goes from "holy hell this is impossible" to "OK this is hard but I can make it through most of the time".

Lunatic+ is not perfect in terms of difficulty curve, but it's 90% of the way there, and generally a pretty good test of your prowess. It's not for everyone.

I know you have a different opinion, and I respect that, but I personally think it's too luck based relative to vanilla Lunatic - whereas vanilla Lunatic requires about equal measures of skill and luck, Lunatic+ tips that scale into needing much more parts luck relative to skill thanks to the random skill configurations. And having to reset or leave the map hoping for a better map configuration (i.e. not getting 1/3 of the map with Counter early on) just gets tedious in a hurry.

FE1(NES)&2 also had no ranges.

-----

Try Duel Guards.

Their your best friend against Luna+. It may be a luck based factor after all. -.-

Without reducing these enemies down (Which these enemies absolutely get these skills at random), or no Duel Guards, you have no hope to win.

http://www.ign.com/wikis/fire-emblem-awakening/Easter_Eggs_and_Secrets

Know what your really up against. Even Fire Emblem masters struggle to beat it!

I agree with SB - that doesn't justify doing that 8 games later.

As to the second part: Yeah, because the perfect counter to something that's insanely luck-based as it is is needing even more luck. [/sarcasm] Just how reliable are Dual Guards? I know the answer - not very reliable, especially early on.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Levant Caprice

[Interceptor]

I know you have a different opinion, and I respect that, but I personally think it's too luck based relative to vanilla Lunatic - whereas vanilla Lunatic requires about equal measures of skill and luck, Lunatic+ tips that scale into needing much more parts luck relative to skill thanks to the random skill configurations. And having to reset or leave the map hoping for a better map configuration (i.e. not getting 1/3 of the map with Counter early on) just gets tedious in a hurry.

As I said before: this is mostly a function of poor planning or tactical mistakes. There aren't all that many skill configurations that are truly impossible, and they are found mostly in the earlygame when you have fewer ways to deal with them. If you are getting punked by Counter, it's because you either didn't prepare for it, or weren't equal to the task in the first place.

The more skilled you are, the less you have to reset.

[Shadow Mir]

As I said before: this is mostly a function of poor planning or tactical mistakes. There aren't all that many skill configurations that are truly impossible, and they are found mostly in the earlygame when you have fewer ways to deal with them. If you are getting punked by Counter, it's because you either didn't prepare for it, or weren't equal to the task in the first place.

The more skilled you are, the less you have to reset.

Perhaps. But in the end, I still see it as akin to Swagger in Pokemon - it adds next to nothing to the game, emphasizes luck over skill (even if it doesn't throw skill completely down the tubes like Swagger does), and just is no fun to deal with whatsoever.

[Loki Laufeyson]

I dont dislike the idea of it really. I like the idea of it for those masochists out there who want a challenge. But one thing is certain: You'll never catch me playing it.

[Czar_Yoshi]

I just blew the dust off my 3DS, and ran through earlygame Lunatic+ quickly. I'm rusty, but took out Prologue in one shot, Ch. 1 in two (made a movement mistake), and now I'm on Ch. 2 with a level 10 +DEF/-SKL Avatar. All I have to do is get the Fred/Avatar pair to the fort (which is possible with one or two sacrifices), and that's a wrap for that one.

The first time I ever played Lunatic+, I cleared Prologue in one shot as well. It's honestly reliable enough that I've considered manipulating an event tile for a Leif's Blade (pseudo-killing edge) which makes Cht.2 massively easier.

Anyway I agree completely, Lunatic+ is meant to be absurd and if you don't want to play an absurd, unfair, cheating difficulty that forces you to think on the fly and adapt to random distributions (which I honestly don't count as cheating), stick with Lunatic. I happen to like doing that. My main beef with Lunatic+ is that the earlygame is very asset/flaw dependent, if you want to take a Def flaw through there for whatever reason (showing off on Streetpass, I've done it before) then it becomes a lot more painful.

[ClassyWolf]

I like the concept, but thinking that the execution of it could have been a lot better.

It's a difficulty to test your adaptability, but some things have been way to luck based(some skill combinations almost impossible to get past, especislly in yhe begining).

[Skynstein]

It's not supposed to be a fair mode (like most unlockable hardest modes in games), and you don't have to play it if you don't want to, so I don't see the point in complaining about it.