Thoughts on Rightful King?

[Tables]

I've generally considered RfK to be one among the least useful skills in the game - it's effect is fairly small, even in the best case scenarios for it, and it's got an extremely limited distribution (maximum of 3 non-DLC characters can learn it). In game, it's impractical to get more than about two activation skills onto the same character, and even when you do manage it, the effect isn't that significant. Post game, your stats tend to be extremely high - 70-80 typically including all standard buffs (rallies, pair up, tonics), which makes those activation skills rates so high that adding 10% just doesn't seem worthwhile in general.

I really hate that Chrom is forced to pass it down to sons, when he could has passed down the much more useful DS+, Charm or Aether. Or... just about any other skill he can learn sans Skl+2, probably, would be better (and even then, I think Skl+2 probably compares reasonably for ingame skill passing...).

I've seen people suggest 'clever' sets using it, but almost always it seems as though replacing RfK with something else would not weaken the set much, if at all, and most of those setups are only viable in postgame.

So what I'm wondering is, are there any real uses for this skill, or should I just suck it up that Chrom's son isn't inheriting anything useful?

[Shadow Mir]

I've generally considered RfK to be one among the least useful skills in the game - it's effect is fairly small, even in the best case scenarios for it, and it's got an extremely limited distribution (maximum of 3 non-DLC characters can learn it). In game, it's impractical to get more than about two activation skills onto the same character, and even when you do manage it, the effect isn't that significant. Post game, your stats tend to be extremely high - 70-80 typically including all standard buffs (rallies, pair up, tonics), which makes those activation skills rates so high that adding 10% just doesn't seem worthwhile in general.

I really hate that Chrom is forced to pass it down to sons, when he could has passed down the much more useful DS+, Charm or Aether. Or... just about any other skill he can learn sans Skl+2, probably, would be better (and even then, I think Skl+2 probably compares reasonably for ingame skill passing...).

I've seen people suggest 'clever' sets using it, but almost always it seems as though replacing RfK with something else would not weaken the set much, if at all, and most of those setups are only viable in postgame.

So what I'm wondering is, are there any real uses for this skill, or should I just suck it up that Chrom's son isn't inheriting anything useful?

I'd have to agree that Chrom's son, sadly won't get anything that's all that useful - and honestly, that's why I'd generally prefer to have him marry and have another daughter. And honestly, I don't understand why you think Charm's all that useful since 5 extra avoid won't make or break whether a unit gets hit or not, anyhow, but that's besides the point.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Levant Fortner

[Interceptor]

I like it for getting Morgan's Armsthrift activation to "perfect" more quickly. Useful to be able to give him a ludicrous forged weapon and not have to worry about it breaking.

[bottlegnomes]

In game, it's really nice. Bumping sol rate up from 15% to 25% or something like that's pretty damn nice. As for post game, I can see what you're saying.

[Tables]

I'd have to agree that Chrom's son, sadly won't get anything that's all that useful - and honestly, that's why I'd generally prefer to have him marry and have another daughter. And honestly, I don't understand why you think Charm's all that useful since 5 extra avoid won't make or break whether a unit gets hit or not, anyhow, but that's besides the point.

Charm is a seriously underrated skill, mainly because it's effect is subtle. 5 avoid doesn't look like much, but it can easily add up in attacks avoided, and get you through tight spots. But this thread isn't about Charm.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Tables

[Aircalipoor]

I agree that RK isn´t game-breaking but equal to Skl+2? Seriously?

[NinjaMonkey]

My Chrom!Brady has never stopped activating Luna ever since he got it.

Possibly due to Rightful King...

[Ema Skye]

I had this awesome Lucina with: Limit Breaker/Pavise/Aegis/Luna/Rightful King and it was hilarious.

57% Pavise/Aegis meant she never died, and 57% Luna made her an offensive titan.

It's a fun skill when it has good combinations.

[Tables]

In game, it's really nice. Bumping sol rate up from 15% to 25% or something like that's pretty damn nice. As for post game, I can see what you're saying.

15% Sol? Which characters exactly are getting Sol, Rightful King and only 15 skill? Even then, I disagree with that being very nice. 15% Sol is not very good. 10% extra Sol is worse than not very good by a margin of 33%. That's... entirely unimpressive. It's something, but I'd prefer most things in it's place there. And when you take a more reasonable skill, say, 25 skill, it's 40% of your Sol activation rate. Uhh, yeah.

I agree that RK isn´t game-breaking but equal to Skl+2? Seriously?

Hmm... after thinking it through a little, I'll give it to you that it's probably more useful than Skl+2. Inigo can at least level up, promote to Hero and get Sol in a reasonableish time, so it's probably better. Brady starts with Miracle, which is something after he class changes. Morgan can get Ignis. So yeah I guess I didn't really consider the specific cases.

I had this awesome Lucina with: Limit Breaker/Pavise/Aegis/Luna/Rightful King and it was hilarious.

57% Pavise/Aegis meant she never died, and 57% Luna made her an offensive titan.

It's a fun skill when it has good combinations.

This set is easily improved by replacing RfK with Aether. Your offence goes up (65% Aether or Luna proc compared to 57% Luna proc) and thanks to Aether's healing, your survival almost certainly goes up, assuming you aren't putting her into range of tons of enemies she can't counter.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Tables

[Ema Skye]

Lethality works really well with it. The extra 10% goes a long way for a skill that rarely has more than 15% activation rate before pair ups.

[Anacybele]

Chrom, Lucina, Morgan, Inigo, Brady. That's actually a total of five characters that can potentially get the skill, not three.

Anyway, I like Rightful King because I plan to do a Rightful King + Lethality and Astra Inigo. Hehe.

[Tables]

Chrom, Lucina, Morgan, Inigo, Brady. That's actually a total of five characters that can potentially get the skill, not three.

Anyway, I like Rightful King because I plan to do a Rightful King + Lethality and Astra Inigo. Hehe.

Only one of Morgan, Inigo and Brady can learn it. That's what I was referring to.

[Nobody]

If you're playing with the female avatar and marrying Chrom, morgan will have it as soon as you get it, and it will really help him. Bumping every skill by 10% is huge on the main game.

[YoungXehanort]

A max of 4 characters can get this skill in any game, Chrom, Lucina, (inigo brady or morgan(m), and Morgan female If you pair the avatar with lucina I think.

[Shadow Mir]

A max of 4 characters can get this skill in any game, Chrom, Lucina, (inigo brady or morgan(m), and Morgan female If you pair the avatar with lucina I think.

That last one's a no go - Lucina always passes down Aether.

[YoungXehanort]

That last one's a no go - Lucina always passes down Aether.

I remember hearing you could pass down rightful king to morgan female through lucina.

[secondworld]

I remember hearing you could pass down rightful king to morgan female through lucina.

You heard wrong.

[Tables]

If you're playing with the female avatar and marrying Chrom, morgan will have it as soon as you get it, and it will really help him. Bumping every skill by 10% is huge on the main game.

Bold: Why? Unless he inherits an activation skill directly (and usually he won't, because male morgan generally wants to inherit Galeforce when possible) it's totally worthless at first. Once he promotes and gets Ignis sure it has some value, but bumping up skills by 10% is not that impressive. It's alright, yeah, and it'll probably stay in Morgan's skill set for a while, but only because he won't have time to get enough better skills to replace it. As far as it goes as a skill, it's not helping him all that much.

Edit: Actually, I guess you could pair Female Avatar with Inigo/Brady and inherit RfK from them onto Morgan, so that'd be 4 RfK users? Ehh.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Tables

[Interceptor]

Marry Inigo/Brady with Avatar, problem solved?

[Nobody]

If you're not min-maxing or grinding, it's not worth getting galeforce to Morgan, so he will probably get ignis or whatever activation skill you have with the avatar. When you get Morgan, his skill will be around 25 even if you used the avatar and chrom a lot. the trigger rate of a skill going from 25% to 35% is pretty good IMO.

[bottlegnomes]

15% Sol? Which characters exactly are getting Sol, Rightful King and only 15 skill? Even then, I disagree with that being very nice. 15% Sol is not very good. 10% extra Sol is worse than not very good by a margin of 33%. That's... entirely unimpressive. It's something, but I'd prefer most things in it's place there. And when you take a more reasonable skill, say, 25 skill, it's 40% of your Sol activation rate. Uhh, yeah.

I pulled a random number out of my ass. Lets say 25% -> 35% since you seem to have such a huge problem with 15%. That means sol goes from activating once every four attacks to once every three attacks. That's a pretty big improvement. What's going to help more: healing more often or giving someone +5 avoid. About the only skills I'd take over it are dual guard+, aether on units that can't get sol, and maybe dual strike+ which is likely an even smaller proportional increase than rightful king.

[Rewjeo]

If you have 25 skill and double, RfK boosts your chances for activating from 44% to 58%. If you have 35 skill, it boosts that 58% to 70%. 40 skill and it boosts your chances from 64% to 75%. Assuming the unit only has one of Sol/Luna/Ignis there, Aether would effectively boost those chances to 57%, 71%, and 77%, in comparison. DS+ changes an 84% chance to a 91% chance or a 91% chance to a 96% chance.

If our unit has Sol and Luna already then here's how Aether and RK affect your odds (again assuming you double):

At 25 skill: 82% w/ RK, 76% w/ Aether

At 35 skill: 91% w/ RK, 88% w/ Aether

There are numbers. Think of them what you will.

[Tables]

If you're not min-maxing or grinding, it's not worth getting galeforce to Morgan, so he will probably get ignis or whatever activation skill you have with the avatar. When you get Morgan, his skill will be around 25 even if you used the avatar and chrom a lot. the trigger rate of a skill going from 25% to 35% is pretty good IMO.

25 skill requires Chrom and Avatar to have gained around 36 skill between then. That's around 70 levels total, probably about 40 for Avatar and 30 for Chrom (Veteran). How is that entirely reasonable while Galeforce to Morgan (requiring about 40 levels to Avatar) is unthinkable? Even if you aren't passing down Galeforce, you aren't passing down Ignis. Morgan starts as a Tactician and can promote to get it pretty quickly, passing it down is kind of a waste.

Either way, your conclusion isn't following from the premise. Firstly Ignis is pretty meh at a low level. Even assuming your numbers are right, Ignis is going to be adding about... 6-7 damage for a base Morgan (est. 13-14 magic for the amount of levelling you implied). If you're using magic it's more like 9 extra damage (18 strength), but that's still very unimpressive. It's sometimes going to be enough to get kills sure, but often it won't make a difference, since you would have killed anyway, or you won't kill still as a result. And RfK is effectively working as 40% of that. Adding 10% sounds nice, but it's adding 10% to something that doesn't do much. And that's the big issue, you can't just say "10% extra is pretty good" when it's 10% of not much. Later on, Ignis gets better, but as it does, activation rate goes up, making RfK's contribution to the rate become less and less notable, while better skills become available to replace it.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Speaking from my own personal experience, In the grand scheme of things most combat abilities are meh in general

In Lunatic, Sol is cool. In HM, not so much because..... Im sure this is Awakening were talking about. nuff said

Luna maybe nabs some KO. Same with Ignis and Aether(which I found to be pretty useful for Lucy and Kjelle)

\

That being said, RFK effect is really specific. It just happened that this specific capability are not usable before you killed everything dead in one round

Edited July 10, 2013 by I have a Dragon Boner

[Interceptor]

What's the problem with Armsthrift/Sol, exactly? Morgan as a child of Chrom/Avatar is going to get Rightful King, whatever Avatar passes down, and start as a Tactician with C Sword/Tome rank. Reclass into a Mercenary, and Veteran kills give you a level per kill until like 7-8 or something. Once you are ready to promote (i.e., not necessarily at level 20, since if Chrom is trained he'll be capping stats before that), become a Hero and get Sol within 4 levels.

Bang. +10% Sol activation, and effectively +5 LCK worth of oomph for Armsthrift. Morgan is a self-healing monster that can use expensive forges or strong legendaries without smashing them. Undeniably Rightful King makes this better.