Why do brave weapons exist?

[Alastor15243]

Seriously, why?

How have the developers been, for nearly two decades, so chronically blind to how utterly ludicrously overpowered those abominations are?

The developers honestly seem to think the things are just "cute", "gimmicky" weapons comparable to lancereavers or magic swords. They're made available at wildly varying points in the game, from towards the end in Fire Emblem 7 to towards the beginning in Seisen No Keifu and Radiant Dawn, and the developers never seem to have caught on to how ludicrously overpowered they are. They consistently dwarf virtually every weapon in any game they are ever in, with the possible exception, maybe, of the absurd holy weapons from FE4, the game I believe they were introduced in.

And in Awakening, they've made a mockery of the astonishingly awesome collection of the series' holy weapons because brave weapons pairs can perform six attacks before the enemy can even move, something none of the holy weapons can even hope to touch. And then they made it even worse by adding in Celica's gale, the first ever 2-range brave weapon. And they made them purchasable, and in infinite supply.

I hate to rant, but... WHY? This... just... there's no good reason for these things to exist. Sure, when they're a unique set of items that you can't get more of, that's okay, but most of the games that feature them have some method to keep using them forever. FE4 had the repair mechanic, FE10 had the blessing feature, and as I said, Awakening lets you just plain buy them. Can somebody explain to me why on earth the developers seem to think these things are a good idea? I'm at a total loss.

[dondon151]

brave weapons are not terribly strong in FE6 and they aren't that great in FE7 or FE8, either. in FE10 forged hand axes and javelins are overall much more useful than brave weapons.

[X-Naut]

And then they made it even worse by adding in Celica's gale, the first ever 2-range brave weapon.

Uh, helloooooo, Brave Bow would like a word?

I don't think the Brave effect is as abominable as you say it is. It some its niche uses, such as preventing a dangerous counter where silver wouldn't be enough. If anything breaks it, it's allowing them to reach high Mt scores and letting them work in tandem with activation skills.

[Alastor15243]

Uh, helloooooo, Brave Bow would like a word?

I don't think the Brave effect is as abominable as you say it is. It some its niche uses, such as preventing a dangerous counter where silver wouldn't be enough. If anything breaks it, it's allowing them to reach high Mt scores and letting them work in tandem with activation skills.

to clarify, I meant a bow that spanned 2 ranges, as in 1-2, not 2-2.

[NinjaMonkey]

Brave Weapons allow slower units to double and potentially kill faster opponents, and get EXP so that they can get to the point where they can double without it.

Edited September 2, 2014 by NinjaMonkey

[Refa]

Brave weapons are also not that great in FE9 (to my knowledge, anyways; they show up so late) and don't even exist in FE11. In FE12 you can only get them around the end of the game (like even after the holy weapons) so it makes sense that they're really good. Also I haven't beaten FE12, so I could be wrong about that one (I've just watched playthroughs).

[Icon of Sin]

The Daim Thunder came first in terms of Brave 1-2 range magic, and there's also the Master Lances and Axes.

In FE4, Brave weapons negated Continue (or as some would prefer to call it, Adept), which had a decently high activation rate of AS+20%. Brave guaranteed it, but if you felt more confidant with your unit's skill, you could go for a higher damage Silver and hope for the best. The game did put emphasis on battles longer than attack, counter, double attack though various skills and higher HP values so it does make sense for Brave weapons to be introduced here, especially when critical hits aren't as common. I felt they could've traded their weapon rank with Silver but they did give unpromoted units the chance of added bite.

FE5's set of Brave weapons were ridiculous because they were all obtained before midgame, two of them in the first chapter even and the axe being useable by any uit with a D rank in axes, from the lowly Marty to the almighty Dagda. To be fair, FE5 was very kind with custom weapons, since the Daim Thunder, King Sword and Dragon Lance also having the Brave property. Another new set of weapons, sadly unseen afterwards, the Master weapons, was introduced. High might, possible ranged attack and always doubling, but compensated by a high weight, a high ranking needed and low accuracy, they were a staple of most bosses starting midgame, and then generic enemies later in the game to make them a bit more threatening if you didn't just skip the level with staves.

Then the GBA FE games came in and made Brave weapons extremely heavy but rather low powered, best to be used by slower but stronger juggernauts like Generals, Warriors and Berserkers. Probably the closest thing of being balanced since they came during midgame at best and were one of a kind. High weight made it harder to quadruple with them, though FE7 and 8 enemy stats weren't that high.

FE9 brought the Strength for Weight system which made the high weight of Brave weapons ultimately redundant at high levels but still kept the Brave weapons one of a kind (sorta, you can steal a Brave Lance from a boss,and who knows in JP Maniac), FE10 stuck with it, FE11 and 12 introduced them to Akaneia, Wi-Fi shops and (broken enemy) forges and FE13 made them easily buyable and forgeable for Apotheosis et. al.

Anyway I know this isn't just a FE thing. I do remember playing Paladin's Quest, a SNES RPG, which had a similar weapon named the Wind Sword. At higher levels it did trump the game's strongest weapon in terms of damage, plus it allowed the use of a shield for defense unlike that Gomutai blade.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Woodshooter

[Elieson]

Brave weapons ...don't even exist in FE11.

Enemies have them!

[Irysa]

Enemy Braves in FE11 are less threatening than forged silvers because their hitrates are actually pretty bad.

Also in 12 Brave Weapons are almost mandatory to deal with the asshole Glower Sorcerers in the last few chapters.

[Refa]

That makes them negative utility!

[deleted35362]

brave weapons are not overpowered at ALL in fe7. they're heavy, wear out their use easily, and can't be bought

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

brave weapons are pretty balanced by several factors in other games.

your complaints most likely come from awakening which its entire game design is flawed in that aspect of braves being OP.

[lazydoggamer]

The only game in which brave weapons are broken is Awakening. They're pretty meh in the other games

[PKL]

Arguably not broken in Awakening either because they do have a flaw: they're endgame (and postgame) only.

At least for some of us anyway. I forgot theyre buyable through Spotpass.

Edited September 2, 2014 by PJSalt

[Snowy_One]

Brave weapons are not actually all that OP'ed. In most games they are acquired late and typically far weaker than the other options available and, aside from negating potential counter-attack damage, aren't really THAT useful to most as they can already 1RKO. Their purpose was to help the slower units who couldn't 1RKO constantly due to lack of doubling.

Course, in the right situations, they CAN be really powerful (like scoring over 1000 potential damage powerful), but those situations rarely, if ever, come up. But I wouldn't label them as 'broken' in any sense of the word until they actually break from low weapon uses.

[Refa]

Arguably not broken in Awakening either because they do have a flaw: they're endgame (and postgame) only.

At least for some of us anyway. I forgot theyre buyable through Spotpass.

You get an easy Celica's Gale through Renown too.

[Mighty Kamina]

I'm basing this off memory, but in my opinion Radiant Dawn handles brave weapons the best. While you do get them fairly early on, the group that has access to hammerne (Greil Mercenaries) does not have access to any brave weapons, unless you have Jill and/or Zihark defect to the Greil Mercenaries holding the brave weapons which is a pretty dumb move as they are both pretty important to the Dawn Brigade. (Dawn Brigade gets the brave sword, brave axe, and brave bow, while the Crimean Royal Knights get the brave lance).

Edited September 2, 2014 by Shulk

[dondon151]

conventional wisdom is to bring the brave sword over to the GMs via ilyana.

[Psych]

Brave weapons are also not that great in FE9 (to my knowledge, anyways; they show up so late) and don't even exist in FE11. In FE12 you can only get them around the end of the game (like even after the holy weapons) so it makes sense that they're really good. Also I haven't beaten FE12, so I could be wrong about that one (I've just watched playthroughs).

They're wifi shop exclusive, but they exist.

Brave Weapons usually suck in the GBA games since you get them too late or enemies just suck compared to PCs. FE4 they're probably too strong because they're effectively unbreakable, and also because Pursuit is broken. So if you stack Pursuit and Continue and a Hero Weapon you just become insane.

[XeKr]

Pretty expensive to buy early/midgame in FE13 when you should buy Rescue instead.

But generally they're balanced by limited uses plus the "I should save this for neve-I mean later" hoarding factor.

[ViewtifulBo]

I actually never really used them UNTIL Awakening really. Brave weapons just seemed like an above average weapon but not as good as the legendary weapons. In most cases I feel like they fit into the custom weapons niche where they're nice to have but I never really end up using them because I'm afraid to brake them. With the exception of Lex's Hero/Brave Axe and Awakening Brave Weapons for Endgame and Streetpass, I never really used em'. They're pretty cool on low speed units though. :)

[Icon of Sin]

They're wifi shop exclusive, but they exist.

Brave Weapons usually suck in the GBA games since you get them too late or enemies just suck compared to PCs. FE4 they're probably too strong because they're effectively unbreakable, and also because Pursuit is broken. So if you stack Pursuit and Continue and a Hero Weapon you just become insane.

Continue and a Hero weapon don't work together.

Pursuit, Charge and Critical do.

[BrightBow]

Above all else they are balanced by usually being limited to one of each weapon. Even when they could be bought in the DS games, they were limited to 3 each. And the ones that can be bought in the Creature Campaign in FE8 just aren't affordable. Not to mention that after the SNES games, they stopped being such uber weapons because they got nerfed in power and accuracy... until they could be forged, allowing that effect to be negated for a small additional fee.

I think they can only be really considered broken in Tear Ring Saga and Awakening. In the former because they are the same uber weapons as in the console FEs but with even more charges (70-90 depending on the type) and can be repaired with a normal Repair Hammer if you somehow run out of charges. And in Awakening because IS essentially made them a regular upgrade to Silvers: Increase the required weapon rank by 1, reduce the Hit by 5 and increase the price by around 50%, just like with every other weapon tier.

Edited September 2, 2014 by BrightBow

[Shadow Mir]

I don't really see braves as broken when most of the games made them one-of-a-kind, and even in Awakening, where such a claim CAN be made... they're only available near the very end of the game, so yeah (well, discounting Spotpass).

Edited September 2, 2014 by Levant Caprice

[Ownagepuffs]

In FE4 Brave weapons let regular units keep up with Holy units.