Am I the only one who thought of this?

[VGE]

So, in part 4, endgame, Ashera brings a few enemies back to life, simply for our heroes to kill them again off-screen, before heading into the tower.

So, here's what I don't get.

Greil, Bryce, and Petrine died maybe...4 years ago? (4 years, because I THINK a year passed in the war, on top of the 3 year time-skip between RD and PoR.) So if Ashera can bring people back from the dead, why not bring back the remaining Four Riders, and Ike's father? It was a perfect chance to use Greil, Bryce, and Petrine because I'm sure a lot of people want to use them. So, why didn't Nintendo do this?! It would've been AMAZING for these three to come back to life! Just imagine the confrontation between Ike & The Black Knight, with Greil still alive! Maybe they would've teamed up? Would Ike have still wanted to avenge his father's death? And for those who wish to quote PoR and say Petrine would never join Ike's army, here's what I say.

They killed her 3 / 4 years ago, and she turns into a wimp saying "I don't wanna die! ;-;" In order to regain her character, she should've been revived. She (as far as I know) has no more allegiance to Daein, once she died. Ashnard clearly didn't give a shit when she died.

Bryce -- like Petrine -- was defeated by Ike's team in PoR. The way I see it, is that the game would take place after Bryce's death, and assuming Ike killed him. So, the conversation might be like "You are a strong warrior, Ike of the Greil Mercenaries. I don't know what use I could be to you, but, may I join your team?" Kinda Tauroneo-like recruitment.

OH, and Shiharam! No one liked killing Shiharam, and it would make Jill and Haar so very happy, and maybe even having a support ending between those three. (Or a support ending for both -- Jill/Shiharam, Haar/Shiharam)

I could go on and on about what Nintendo should've done with the whole "revival" thing, but, I'll leave the rest up to all of you. What do you think?

[Just call me AL]

The thing is though, if they were brought back to life, it be in the vein of the Black Fang Elite in FE7. They would have to be defeated, no matter whatever emotions might be going through the character's minds. Especially since it's only their bodies that's brought back.

Edited August 28, 2012 by Little Al

[Agro]

Uh... IMO it would have kind of cheapened everything. It would eventually give character deaths the same weight as Goku dying in DBZ (i.e. none). For that matter, why not just resurrect anyone else who died thanks to the player during the course of the game for Part 4? Greil's supposed to have died and his death shapes Ike as a character. Same with Jill and Shiharam, I guess. Bringing them back to life kind of just does away with all that.

[VGE]

As for the whole "they would have to be killed off," they could die after Ashera dies. :/

[Just call me AL]

As for the whole "they would have to be killed off," they could die after Ashera dies. :/

So? That wouldn't change the fact that it's only their bodies that's present in the slightest.

It's the same issue that's brought up in FE7's endgame. Nergal brings back Darin and the Black Fang Elite only to have them serve as his last line of defense. In no way is anyone among them recruitable. How the same thing wouldn't happen under this idea of Ashera bringing back strong warriors who were killed in the Mad King's War would be beyond me.

[VGE]

Anything mentioned before PoR/RD confuses me, considering I've never played those games, so I have no clue what you mean by the Black Fang Elite, but I believe I got an idea of what you mean.

[Eltoshen]

aka soulless bodies who can't interact based off past memories.

get it?

[Vicious Sal]

Yune even states that Ashera only brought back the flesh, but not the spirit. Besides, if they were revived, they'd be enemies. And Ike vs Zombie!Greil doesn't sound like the best idea.

[NTNP]

This idea has some merit, however I have to agree that it might cheapen the overall feeling of the narrative. If they did this set up, IS would have probably designed endgame around it. For example, if they would have had the remaining soldiers from the Central Army (including Levain and perhaps set up the same way as the BK fight in the tower with it being Ike v BK one on one while the rest of the army fights the golden army) and the various dragon clans being included in the battle to enter the Golden Tower (adding 2+ maps to part 4 outright) and then made it where on each floor of the golden tower that the various dead from the series were revived then then it might have made sense.

Have the lowest level be populated by the various "best" of Begnion for example which would have made a wonderful place for Oliver who really should be dead, Jarrod in tier 3 form and the like to have been fought alongside the orchestrators of our little plot. Next would have been Crimea's fallen alongside the laguz nations, in particular the likes of Wise King Ramon and the Queen (same class, build as Elincia), the "bed ridden, could have easily been turning into dead" king of Serenes Forest, the previous Raven King described in legend and maybe a revived Wolf King, Cain's predecessor etc in order to give us both a reason to fight really powerful laguz and to add an additional reason to bring the current laguz royals to endgame. Last would have been the Daien level with the Four Riders (Black Knight, Gwain, Petrine, Bryce) with Ashnard at the head of the conflict, perhaps with Rajarion reincarnated as a black dragon to be fought alongside Ashnard and the fan favorites such as Homas, Jill's Father and a few others to lead the groups of enemies along the way to the various riders and then finally the Mad King himself making it a tiny version of PoR.

Then it would play out like normal with Sephran and the spirits (which now make a little more sense) and then head up to face Ashera like planned. I don't think that IS should make them recruitable though, as many others have said it makes more sense for them to be soulless meat bags. Or perhaps at most only containing a mere fragment of their personalities, just to further inflame the spirits of those the characters that could talk to them just to play up the drama since that would be the only reason to go with something like this. Admittedly it would have been something different than what we expected and probably a very good use of Ashera's powers over the dead but generally not that big of addition to the game. Now if they would have done all this, included 10+ post game maps to be fought through like they did with PoR and included all these characters as rewards for completing the game then it would have been wonderful but alas like so much else in this game, IS wasted the opportunity.

[VGE]

We all know Greil died. That's obvious, you can't get away from that, but... Petrine and Bryce died the same way Oliver died -- through combat. No cutscene whatsoever. Hell, they made "Bertram" die, and come back as Renning. So if Oliver and Renning could come back, why not Petrine and Bertram? I can understand Greil not coming back, because we all saw how he died, and my assumption, is that if you die in a cutscene, you're probably gone forever. ...Unless you use hacks.

[Anouleth]

I imagine they'd be a bit... pungent by that point.

[Dr. Silent]

^Exactly. Naturally, their bodies will have decayed beyond use in the 3.5 - 4 years since their deaths.

In terms of Greil and Shiharam, it would ruin the entire emotional premise of PoR. Since RD rendered PoR's storyline a waste of time anyway (the one thing I didn't like about RD), why ruin what remaining impact it had on the Tellius series. An "Ike and Jill lived happily ever after with their revived respective fathers" ending would ruin it completely.

I've long said the same thing to people moaning about how you can't revive Aeris (by legit means) in Final Fantasy VII. The story wouldn't be half as good if it were possible. It would utterly ruin the emotional atmosphere. The same goes for Boromir in Lord of the Rings, Ned in Game of Thrones, Sirius and Fred in Harry Potter etc. Killing off characters who the reader doesn't want to die is almost necessary in a powerful dramatic story.

As for Bryce and Petrine...RD revived two of the Four Riders, and they were the two who could definitely have been expanded upon in a sequel game anyway. Bryce and Petrine's characters were pretty much covered in PoR,. Perhaps Bryce didn't get as much screentime as he probably deserved but it's not as if he was a complex character or anything. They are both dead, and if RD did actually revive them, I'd have preferred it if they had stayed dead. They would have done nothing to advance RD's story. Also, in response to what one guy above me said, that their deaths were unconfirmed because they weren't shown in animations...well, in Chapter 24 or 25 or thereabouts (I forgot) the Black Knight informs Ashard that "General Petrine's men have captured Ena, but with the general's death they are unsure of what to do with her". Pretty much confirms Petrine's death if her death speech didn't. As for Bryce...his death speech concludes that he dies after it, especially if you kill him with Ike.

[You Know Shinon Is God]

I see Nergal coming up in here, and I am pretty sure he said the "revived" bodies were only Morphs. Incomplete, at that, since they couldn't speak - only fight; unlike Ephidel and crew.

The only thing I can see coming out of revivals is Ashnard being revived and actually having a personal conversation with Soren, which he didn't in PoR (which I find upsetting, and that may mean they didn't intend for Soren's Epilogue scene until they had already started RD's developement. They clearly planned a sequel, but I don't think that was planned). And, you know, hinted spoilers and whatnot before Soren's Ep. scene.

...And yeah, I know his convo. with Soren is the same, impersonal one he has with other people who have nothing to do with him. I legit speed-ran the chapter with Tibarn rescuing him and flying up to Ashnard JUST to see if he did. ...Welp. Nope.

Plus, if Greil came back, that would ruin like, half the plot. And the entire sideplot of Ike VS. Black Knight. Ike goes for revenge, and then, suddenly, one day, Greil is there. ...Welp. So much for the revenge. You're free to go, Sir Knight. We will forgive but we won't forget.

Edited October 21, 2012 by You Know Shinon's God

[NinjaMonkey]

Since RD rendered PoR's storyline a waste of time anyway

Umm... how exactly?

[You Know Shinon Is God]

Umm... how exactly?

Agreed. How did it do so? All I saw it as was a proper extension of PoR. It cleared up a LOT of things, and it made a lot of what we learn in PoR to be more than it really was. Hell, I'm STILL playing PoR and looking for all those little subtle hints re-used for plot effect in RD.

[Samias]

I also disagree that Soren being the son of Ashnard was not planned from the very beginning. His visual appearance is extremely similar to Kurth, which is rarely a coincidence in the FE world when it comes to named characters. However, Ashnard doubtfully remembers his own son, or would even think about what his grown son looks like.

As far as Ashera bringing people back to life, the only people she brought back were people who were alive when she exerted her judgment in the first place. Presumably, she could have spared them a blessing of sorts that preserved their bodies after dying in service of her, just like how she regenerates herself if anyone but Ike deals the last hit. I think Petrine, Ashnard, Greil, Bryce, even Jarod, etc are out of the question, having never been exposed to judgment on account of being dead first.

[Jotari]

No one else seeing the problem of them all having died far away in a different country? Actually infinite warping would probably solve that. On the subject of infinite warping why did Ashera wait for our heroes to reach her and all the end game bosses. She should have just warped Lekan, the Black Knight, Levail, Dheginsea and every other random soldier under her command to attack divided groups one at a time.

[Dr. Silent]

Agreed. How did it do so? All I saw it as was a proper extension of PoR. It cleared up a LOT of things, and it made a lot of what we learn in PoR to be more than it really was. Hell, I'm STILL playing PoR and looking for all those little subtle hints re-used for plot effect in RD.

Well, by the end of PoR the good guys were mostly fighting to prevent the Dark God from waking up. Three years later, in RD, the Dark God wakes up anyway, leading to a bunch of ridiculous plot twists.

RD's overall story, whilst fine early on, just rather unnecessarily went completely bonkers towards the end. PoR's story was successful in that it stayed consistent, linked together very well, was very good, and never at any point really went over-the-top. RD's story then ruined this with a story that went way too over-the-top. Part 1 was fine (even if it felt too much like it was just running through the cliff notes of PoR), Part 2 was fine (if too short), Part 3 started out quite well and could have been much better than it actually turned out to be, but lost consistency and became too jumpy with all the nonsense with Daein and the Blood Pact (am I the only one who thinks it could all have been solved in five minutes) and Part 4 was just stupid (exception being 4-5 because it had little to do with the main plot and I enjoyed it)

Yes, revealing things in a sequel is fine but I just felt Radiant Dawn revealed too much. I liked the mysterious, unseen threat of the Dark God in Lehran's Medallion in PoR. It kept an atmospheric background threat behind the scenes. Imagine my disappointment when I played Radiant Dawn and found out that the Dark God was a nice little girl and the real villain was the goddess everyone adores. That's a plot twist typical of Saturday morning cartoons. As for other things...well, I liked the anonymity of the Black Knight's identity and the fact that he 'died' without us knowing who he was in PoR, but I don't think it was a bad move to bring him back and reveal who he was in RD. It would have been fine either way. However, IA completely fucked up revealing the BK's identity when Ranulf decided to tell Ike several chapters in advance. Now THAT is something that could have been done MUCH better.

[ClLoulD]

It's also stated that Ashera only brought back people that would serve her, and like you said about petrine being a coward she would fight for the goddess being afraid of that which gave her life again could just so easily take it away.

Edited October 21, 2012 by ClLoulD

[Jotari]

However, IA completely fucked up revealing the BK's identity when Ranulf decided to tell Ike several chapters in advance. Now THAT is something that could have been done MUCH better.

I actually really liked the way that was done particularly because it wasn't done over the top yet it still came out of nowhere and in a way made it a bit more realistic. I think it also gave Ike a better understanding of who he was going up against as it gave him and player time to come to terms with the reveal. I feel Zelguis' memory scene would have lost a lot of its impact afterwards if we had only just found out he was the Black Knight a minute before hand. Revealing his identity before hand allowed him to keep the mysteriousness of the Black Knight since it was only Ranulf's theory and we still didn't no any of his motives or reasons for being the Black Knight while at the same time it gave us a character to associate the black knight with so he wasn't just a faceless enemy anymore. Of course this is all just my opinion your welcome to feel however you like about it.

[You Know Shinon Is God]

Well, by the end of PoR the good guys were mostly fighting to prevent the Dark God from waking up. Three years later, in RD, the Dark God wakes up anyway, leading to a bunch of ridiculous plot twists.

RD's overall story, whilst fine early on, just rather unnecessarily went completely bonkers towards the end. PoR's story was successful in that it stayed consistent, linked together very well, was very good, and never at any point really went over-the-top. RD's story then ruined this with a story that went way too over-the-top. Part 1 was fine (even if it felt too much like it was just running through the cliff notes of PoR), Part 2 was fine (if too short), Part 3 started out quite well and could have been much better than it actually turned out to be, but lost consistency and became too jumpy with all the nonsense with Daein and the Blood Pact (am I the only one who thinks it could all have been solved in five minutes) and Part 4 was just stupid (exception being 4-5 because it had little to do with the main plot and I enjoyed it)

Yes, revealing things in a sequel is fine but I just felt Radiant Dawn revealed too much. I liked the mysterious, unseen threat of the Dark God in Lehran's Medallion in PoR. It kept an atmospheric background threat behind the scenes. Imagine my disappointment when I played Radiant Dawn and found out that the Dark God was a nice little girl and the real villain was the goddess everyone adores. That's a plot twist typical of Saturday morning cartoons. As for other things...well, I liked the anonymity of the Black Knight's identity and the fact that he 'died' without us knowing who he was in PoR, but I don't think it was a bad move to bring him back and reveal who he was in RD. It would have been fine either way. However, IA completely fucked up revealing the BK's identity when Ranulf decided to tell Ike several chapters in advance. Now THAT is something that could have been done MUCH better.

The Dark God woke up anyway because Ashera and Yune wake up together, though, so that I find makes enough sense. Turns out the "Dark God" wasn't evil, anyway, which, I do understand is one of those plot twists you're mentioning.

That's why PoR's my favorite and preferred of the two.

I think Part Two of RD was too short, honestly, but the end of it was epic. Yeah, that Bastian knows what he's doing...

Actually, the one thing that upset me about Bastian... You don't get him, Stefan or Volke until the final part. I think not having Renning alive would have been fine, but I guess he's a bit more needed now that the elders are all idiots in Crimea, too.

I find it got too messy with the senate, honestly. They were incredibly minor in PoR, and all of a sudden, they're the cause of the majority of RD's story. Plus, Valtome was entirely that one character that was there meant to piss people off. I thought Oliver was god awful. Yeah, never mind. Oliver's a BLESSING compared to the rest of the senate, minus Hetzel.

I agree with the whole Blood Pact issue. It explained everything about Naesala in PoR, and gave good plot to Pelleas.

It does suck, though, that you go from fighting Zelgius in Begnion's army to fighting Black Knight in Daein's army. It's almost like, "Finally! A break from Zelgius' ass kicking! We might be able to win thi-- ...Never mind. He's here, too." In fact, I can quite well imagine Ranulf saying that... You look ahead, and he's right in front of you with the Central Army. Turn around, and he's right behind you with Daein. Yup. Luck. It sucks. And that's another reason why I find the senate got way too involved with the plot. Zelgius was practically the new Ashnard - the one everyone was afraid of, the one everyone had to deal with to stop the main army's forces that was causing the most problems for them... Though a very honorable villain, he was still a villain to them. Then comes Valtome. Well, that just DESTROYED the Central Army's power. None need fear this army any longer... I really think most of the reason the CA was so powerful was because they had Zelgius as their leader. And he took all of Valtome's shit too easily. He could've slaughtered the entire senate EASY. Kill Valtome; the rest go after you, kill them. Fun stuff. Then, look, no more overwhemling chaotic energy. No more need to worry about the medallion. We're all safe. In hindsight, Zelgius is a hero. Saved us all. And without the stupid senate, there wouldn't be a reason to fight anymore, so the war's over, hence no more chaos.

Though, he did start to redeem himself when he threatened to break Valtome's neck... Good times...

Moral of the story? Too. Much. Senate.

I still feel the emotions of PoR are sufficient. They were worried about reviving a supposed Dark God, and when you think about, Yune wasn't evil, but Ashera would've done the same thing then that she did at the end of RD. And back then, there's no way Ike and company would have been able to stop her. Even if Yune somehow appeared to help them, I don't feel they could take down everyone they did, and even if they did get that far, Ashera herself would've been a trial that they MAY have won with loads of lucks, but they'd probably be dead, too. So stopping her revival back then was perfect.

I also agree with Jotari's statement about Black Knight's identity being revealed. Plus, it was a bit obvious who he was if you actually looked at his attire. The way he stands in PoR, and the style of armor he wears (the style and parts of the outfit, like areas on his arms) is exactly the same. His mannerisms were also the same, and almost exactly. He was a bit more loosened up when he was with Ike, but I can imagine that was nothing more than a ploy. He never once called him Ike from what I can remember as a Daein General. They were both also extremely honorable, and that showed a LOT in RD. Originally, we really only see this in PoR when he's about to kill Ena. Then, he does it again in his fight against Skirmir in RD. In PoR, he also kept insisting to Ike that they could do this and that for the betterment of Ike's forces, and was understanding to being told it wasn't needed. Quite similar to what he was saying to General Mackoya in chapter 11 of PoR.

Personally, I think Zelgius' story was just fine, or even perfect. Again, it was really the senate that blew par tof RD for me. Plus, the fact that you switch armies so much got to me, and what I stated previously about the characters you don't get until way later in the story. Besides those few things, I was satsified with it - especially all the extras. I was upset in PoR when they removed the option of re-reading Supports after you get them, but RD took that back, and there's a load of things you can get from transferring PoR data.

The length of this post? I regret it not.

Edited October 21, 2012 by You Know Shinon's God

[Dr. Silent]

The Dark God woke up anyway because Ashera and Yune wake up together, though, so that I find makes enough sense. Turns out the "Dark God" wasn't evil, anyway, which, I do understand is one of those plot twists you're mentioning.

That's why PoR's my favorite and preferred of the two.

I think Part Two of RD was too short, honestly, but the end of it was epic. Yeah, that Bastian knows what he's doing...

Actually, the one thing that upset me about Bastian... You don't get him, Stefan or Volke until the final part. I think not having Renning alive would have been fine, but I guess he's a bit more needed now that the elders are all idiots in Crimea, too.

I find it got too messy with the senate, honestly. They were incredibly minor in PoR, and all of a sudden, they're the cause of the majority of RD's story. Plus, Valtome was entirely that one character that was there meant to piss people off. I thought Oliver was god awful. Yeah, never mind. Oliver's a BLESSING compared to the rest of the senate, minus Hetzel.

I agree with the whole Blood Pact issue. It explained everything about Naesala in PoR, and gave good plot to Pelleas.

It does suck, though, that you go from fighting Zelgius in Begnion's army to fighting Black Knight in Daein's army. It's almost like, "Finally! A break from Zelgius' ass kicking! We might be able to win thi-- ...Never mind. He's here, too." In fact, I can quite well imagine Ranulf saying that... You look ahead, and he's right in front of you with the Central Army. Turn around, and he's right behind you with Daein. Yup. Luck. It sucks. And that's another reason why I find the senate got way too involved with the plot. Zelgius was practically the new Ashnard - the one everyone was afraid of, the one everyone had to deal with to stop the main army's forces that was causing the most problems for them... Though a very honorable villain, he was still a villain to them. Then comes Valtome. Well, that just DESTROYED the Central Army's power. None need fear this army any longer... I really think most of the reason the CA was so powerful was because they had Zelgius as their leader. And he took all of Valtome's shit too easily. He could've slaughtered the entire senate EASY. Kill Valtome; the rest go after you, kill them. Fun stuff. Then, look, no more overwhemling chaotic energy. No more need to worry about the medallion. We're all safe. In hindsight, Zelgius is a hero. Saved us all. And without the stupid senate, there wouldn't be a reason to fight anymore, so the war's over, hence no more chaos.

Though, he did start to redeem himself when he threatened to break Valtome's neck... Good times...

Moral of the story? Too. Much. Senate.

I still feel the emotions of PoR are sufficient. They were worried about reviving a supposed Dark God, and when you think about, Yune wasn't evil, but Ashera would've done the same thing then that she did at the end of RD. And back then, there's no way Ike and company would have been able to stop her. Even if Yune somehow appeared to help them, I don't feel they could take down everyone they did, and even if they did get that far, Ashera herself would've been a trial that they MAY have won with loads of lucks, but they'd probably be dead, too. So stopping her revival back then was perfect.

I also agree with Jotari's statement about Black Knight's identity being revealed. Plus, it was a bit obvious who he was if you actually looked at his attire. The way he stands in PoR, and the style of armor he wears (the style and parts of the outfit, like areas on his arms) is exactly the same. His mannerisms were also the same, and almost exactly. He was a bit more loosened up when he was with Ike, but I can imagine that was nothing more than a ploy. He never once called him Ike from what I can remember as a Daein General. They were both also extremely honorable, and that showed a LOT in RD. Originally, we really only see this in PoR when he's about to kill Ena. Then, he does it again in his fight against Skirmir in RD. In PoR, he also kept insisting to Ike that they could do this and that for the betterment of Ike's forces, and was understanding to being told it wasn't needed. Quite similar to what he was saying to General Mackoya in chapter 11 of PoR.

Personally, I think Zelgius' story was just fine, or even perfect. Again, it was really the senate that blew par tof RD for me. Plus, the fact that you switch armies so much got to me, and what I stated previously about the characters you don't get until way later in the story. Besides those few things, I was satsified with it - especially all the extras. I was upset in PoR when they removed the option of re-reading Supports after you get them, but RD took that back, and there's a load of things you can get from transferring PoR data.

The length of this post? I regret it not.

Nah, I liked the Renning/Izuka story. While it was certainly disappointing that Volke (because awesome unit) and Bastian (because humorous character) showed up so late, I enjoyed the one-chapter departure from the now-silly main story to a side story with a very good plot. I enjoyed it. In terms of story, it was one of the best chapters in the game, and the kind of thing I was really hoping for in a PoR sequel (the mystery of Bertram and his rather coincidental resemblance to Renning was certainly something we needed to know more about in the sequel).

Yeah, the Senate thing got kinda messy. I found it a bit odd that everyone seemed to know the Senate and the Apostle didn't like each other, yet in PoR there was very little, if any, indication of this. Lekain and Hetzel seemed to like the Apostle well enough, and Oliver died (his revival in RD was such a terrible idea that I prefer to think of it as a 'what if?' scenario). Then all of a sudden Lekain is an evil bad guy, Hetzel is his puppet, and Numida and Valtome join in the fun. Also, this ties in with the Blood Pact thing. All Micaiah had to do was tell the Apostle, Ike and the other royals about the Blood Pact in secret. In the dead of night, Tibarn, Jill and Haar fly to Sienne in all their uber awesomeness, assassinate Lekain+friends, rip up both Blood Pacts, and everyone's happy.

I get what you mean about Ranulf telling Ike that. Not sure I completely agree (it confirmed all too soon something that was quite obvious anyway). I agree that Zelgius/BK's story was done very well, though. No problems there (except where it tied in with Ashera destroying the world and all that).

[Jotari]

All Micaiah had to do was tell the Apostle, Ike and the other royals about the Blood Pact in secret. In the dead of night, Tibarn, Jill and Haar fly to Sienne in all their uber awesomeness, assassinate Lekain+friends, rip up both Blood Pacts, and everyone's happy.

If killing the senators was really that easy than Ike and co probably would have thought of it regardless of the blood pack since the senators were the ones causing the whole mess for them too.

[You Know Shinon Is God]

Nah, I liked the Renning/Izuka story. While it was certainly disappointing that Volke (because awesome unit) and Bastian (because humorous character) showed up so late, I enjoyed the one-chapter departure from the now-silly main story to a side story with a very good plot. I enjoyed it. In terms of story, it was one of the best chapters in the game, and the kind of thing I was really hoping for in a PoR sequel (the mystery of Bertram and his rather coincidental resemblance to Renning was certainly something we needed to know more about in the sequel).

Yeah, the Senate thing got kinda messy. I found it a bit odd that everyone seemed to know the Senate and the Apostle didn't like each other, yet in PoR there was very little, if any, indication of this. Lekain and Hetzel seemed to like the Apostle well enough, and Oliver died (his revival in RD was such a terrible idea that I prefer to think of it as a 'what if?' scenario). Then all of a sudden Lekain is an evil bad guy, Hetzel is his puppet, and Numida and Valtome join in the fun. Also, this ties in with the Blood Pact thing. All Micaiah had to do was tell the Apostle, Ike and the other royals about the Blood Pact in secret. In the dead of night, Tibarn, Jill and Haar fly to Sienne in all their uber awesomeness, assassinate Lekain+friends, rip up both Blood Pacts, and everyone's happy.

I get what you mean about Ranulf telling Ike that. Not sure I completely agree (it confirmed all too soon something that was quite obvious anyway). I agree that Zelgius/BK's story was done very well, though. No problems there (except where it tied in with Ashera destroying the world and all that).

Oh, yeah, I certainly agree Renning needed to be brought up again. I just personally felt that he shouldn't have joined the party and/or been able to be saved. But I guess SOMETHING nice needed to happen with all that was going on.

Ah, yeah. Volke was an amazing unit for me in PoR. Bastian was quite amusing, too, though I never used him as a unit in PoR. I had five Sages including him and Calill (who I also never used), so I wasn't about to start using the weaker units when I had a perfectly good Tormod and Soren... >.> Yeah, I would promote Ilyana, and then generally stop using her. -shrug- Tormod went around shanking people (clearly ironic in his admiration of Sothe's shanking, considering their C Support), and Soren went around healing people (and probably expecting peyment in gold in return if it was an Other Unit).

I think Oliver was just intended to be a joke character, really. But as for Lekain, he was pretty protective over Sanaki initially. He was the one who threatened to kill Ike for speaking out against her. And he was insistent on it even after she told him to stop. That is, unless the creator's excuse is that he wanted to kill someone. Welp. I never liked him anyway, so it's great I get to kill him in RD. Fun stuff.

Valtome and Numida weren't even shown in the first game, which bothered me. It was stated that there were seven senators, and besides Sephiran, we meet Oliver, Hetzel and Lekain - two of which had no plot signifigance at ALL. ...And then some in RD, apparently. Though I still refer to Valtome preferably as "it" than "he".

Don't forget Naesala! He would have went, too! But I mean, seriously. They claim they have Begnion spies all over the continent, but those spies aren't doing much good if their masters are dead. Tibarn and Naesala could have flown there before anyone on horseback or foot could have gotten back, and by the time they did, the senators would be dead. Tibarn also seems like things like that, so, I'm sure he'd be QUITE pleased to take the job. While Reyson joins in the fun to sit back and watch in amusement as those assholes who caused his family's murder as slaughtered by his best friend and idol.

I feel like the only reason Zelgius had, aside from Sephiran, for being in the Tower as one of the final battles was to face Ike in battle. Beside that, he didn't have anything to do with Ashera, really. Sephiran did, so he followed for his sake, but that was just for his master. And I'm pretty sure Sephiran wasn't just using Zelgius, considering his last words were, well, Zelgius' name, after he spoke to Sanaki. So, at the least, we knew his relationship with Zelgius was real. His relationship with everyone else turned into, "Sorry, I betrayed you." It doesn't help that in PoR, there's clearly more to him than he lets on. I mean, really, his stats in chapter ten are obnoxious. I think only Oscar the Great Tank could stand up to that. I knew Sephiran was a powerful person, but then all of a sudden he decides to be the half main villain (yet in a second playthrough or higher, has potential to be even more forgiven than he is in the first playthrough, and he even joins you if you so choose...). I found the end of RD just got... confusing. Zelgius' story was so simple in comparison, and so much more interesting.

Of course, the best part of the whole game is Ranulf's paradox ending. Naturally. I have dubbed him The Wandering King, should he A Support Ike and Skirmir dies.

[Dr. Silent]

Oh, yeah, I certainly agree Renning needed to be brought up again. I just personally felt that he shouldn't have joined the party and/or been able to be saved. But I guess SOMETHING nice needed to happen with all that was going on.

Ah, yeah. Volke was an amazing unit for me in PoR. Bastian was quite amusing, too, though I never used him as a unit in PoR. I had five Sages including him and Calill (who I also never used), so I wasn't about to start using the weaker units when I had a perfectly good Tormod and Soren... >.> Yeah, I would promote Ilyana, and then generally stop using her. -shrug- Tormod went around shanking people (clearly ironic in his admiration of Sothe's shanking, considering their C Support), and Soren went around healing people (and probably expecting peyment in gold in return if it was an Other Unit).

I think Oliver was just intended to be a joke character, really. But as for Lekain, he was pretty protective over Sanaki initially. He was the one who threatened to kill Ike for speaking out against her. And he was insistent on it even after she told him to stop. That is, unless the creator's excuse is that he wanted to kill someone. Welp. I never liked him anyway, so it's great I get to kill him in RD. Fun stuff.

Valtome and Numida weren't even shown in the first game, which bothered me. It was stated that there were seven senators, and besides Sephiran, we meet Oliver, Hetzel and Lekain - two of which had no plot signifigance at ALL. ...And then some in RD, apparently. Though I still refer to Valtome preferably as "it" than "he".

Don't forget Naesala! He would have went, too! But I mean, seriously. They claim they have Begnion spies all over the continent, but those spies aren't doing much good if their masters are dead. Tibarn and Naesala could have flown there before anyone on horseback or foot could have gotten back, and by the time they did, the senators would be dead. Tibarn also seems like things like that, so, I'm sure he'd be QUITE pleased to take the job. While Reyson joins in the fun to sit back and watch in amusement as those assholes who caused his family's murder as slaughtered by his best friend and idol.

I feel like the only reason Zelgius had, aside from Sephiran, for being in the Tower as one of the final battles was to face Ike in battle. Beside that, he didn't have anything to do with Ashera, really. Sephiran did, so he followed for his sake, but that was just for his master. And I'm pretty sure Sephiran wasn't just using Zelgius, considering his last words were, well, Zelgius' name, after he spoke to Sanaki. So, at the least, we knew his relationship with Zelgius was real. His relationship with everyone else turned into, "Sorry, I betrayed you." It doesn't help that in PoR, there's clearly more to him than he lets on. I mean, really, his stats in chapter ten are obnoxious. I think only Oscar the Great Tank could stand up to that. I knew Sephiran was a powerful person, but then all of a sudden he decides to be the half main villain (yet in a second playthrough or higher, has potential to be even more forgiven than he is in the first playthrough, and he even joins you if you so choose...). I found the end of RD just got... confusing. Zelgius' story was so simple in comparison, and so much more interesting.

Of course, the best part of the whole game is Ranulf's paradox ending. Naturally. I have dubbed him The Wandering King, should he A Support Ike and Skirmir dies.

The last three Senators did appear, but unnamed. The first one was the guy in 3-3 and 3-5 who ordered Lobroso to attack the Mercs. He was unnamed, but presumably he was Duke Seliora (none of the named senators were). The other two were also unnamed. You killed them in 3-3. Presumably, one of these three senators replaced Oliver after his fall in PoR, or it doesn't make sense.

Naesala had already betrayed the Laguz Alliance and let Begnion attack Phoenicis by that point, and until 3-E his location was unknown. I doubt Tibarn would fancy travelling with him. Tibarn, Jill and Haar are all pretty uber. They'd be fine. And in response to the other guy (who I have not quoted) - Ike and co. didn't suggest this because, until Ashera turned everyone to stone, they didn't know about the Blood Pact.