The Class-Tiering Thread: Postgame

[BANRYU]

To clarify, this is the Dark Knight you're referring to, right?

[CoolCoolCool]

It's a good idea to not completely contradict yourself in an argument.

Except I didn't. What skills a class gives ARE irrelevant in determining what constitutes a good final class (which is what this topic is about). Great Knight for example gives one of the better abilities in the game (Luna) but has terrible caps so no one ever uses it otherwise. Something like Hero doesn't really have any good endgame skills, but is a good class due to its great caps.

However, what skills a CHARACTER has are relevant when picking a class which is what I was pointing out here. If Chrom had access to swordfaire, great lord might beat out bow knight. But he only has bowfaire so his skillset is certainly relevant to what class is best.

For Lucina, you would never run great lord or bow knight so it isn't really relevant. But I can't think of a skillset for Great Lord Chrom that beats LB/Aggressor/DS+/Bowfaire/AS+2 Bow Knight. I mean, you could run Charm/DG+/HIt+20 or some other filler over bowfaire for Great Lord, but it still won't really win out when you consider its terrible luck +4 pairup bonus. There is no conceivable reason it should be a tier over stuff like bow knight that I can see.

I have a soft spot for dark knights because min-turning apotheosis SR is impossible without running a move+1 pairup for dark fliers (of which dark knights are best) so they have that niche. Actually it's probably possible, but much more complicated.

Edited March 17, 2014 by CoolCoolCool

[BANRYU]

This thread seems like it's in need of a bump.

It sounds to me like the arguments for/against Greatlords and Dark Knights are pretty deadlocked at the moment. To bring any new/old readers back up to speed, here are the current proposals being put forth:

- Greatlords -> D-rank: Under the argument that D-rank classes such as Bow Knight can equal or exceed its damage output, and its niche is usurped by higher classes like Hero and Paladin.

- Greatlords -> Greatlord (m) & Greatlord (f): because Chrom and Lucina have different caps. ((personally, I'm not sure how necessary this is seeing as they're the only two that can be this but I sez let the people decide))

I'm withdrawing my suggestion for dropping Dark Knights to D based on the argument YoshiCzar mentioned; seems like a good enough reason to me.

For Apo? Maybe they should. However, this is one of those times when context is everything, because the moment it becomes important to have a tanky 8-mov class that hits Aegis or has a ranged Brave, [Dark Knights are] the only option... They're also very good at fighting Lunatic Risen.

(At least... I THINK he was referring to DKs here....)

Edited March 18, 2014 by BANRYU

[MRDRHAWK]

I'm curious as to how Dark Fliers are lower than... well, anyone. Sure, they have low caps and ergo lower damage output, but they have superior movement, Tome access, Galeforce, high speed, access to two different types of Braves (both magic and melee)... I'd probably put them at worst on par with Sages, and I certainly don't see how Valkyries/Falcoknights are higher, even with those classes having Rescue access.

[BANRYU]

Well strictly speaking, they're not higher-- they're in the same tier, aren't they? As I say earlier in the thread, I'm hardly knowledgeable about this stuff, but I'd imagine it's due to the invaluable staff support they bring. I'm not gonna deny that Darkfliers are very very good, but I don't know if they rank high enough to go S-rank with the Sage.

But I'll let other people argue for/against it, I'm just acting as thread custodian, basically.

[Gaia]

I'm curious as to how Dark Fliers are lower than... well, anyone. Sure, they have low caps and ergo lower damage output, but they have superior movement, Tome access, Galeforce, high speed, access to two different types of Braves (both magic and melee)... I'd probably put them at worst on par with Sages, and I certainly don't see how Valkyries/Falcoknights are higher, even with those classes having Rescue access.

Movement is the one thing they have going for them. Otherwise, they have less magic, skill, their speed is actually the same, and their defensive capabilities are very similar, as well. But that +4 magic cap is what really makes Sages shine. Well, that, and they also have staff access. I honestly wouldn't bother with Lances on a Dark Flier because of the incredibly low Str cap. They've also got that flier weakness, which would take another skill slot to cover.

[Czar_Yoshi]

I was indeed referring to DKs.

Dark Fliers: They give +Spd pairup, Sages give +Skl. They're also the strongest +Mag/Spd class (tied with Valkyrie, but those give less Spd so DF is better). The also have good distribution going for them- Cynthia, Severa and Morgan-F have them naturally, and you're doing it wrong if Lucina, Kjelle and Noire don't. They don't eclipse Sages and Sages don't eclipse them (Sage+DF is a pretty good pairup combo).

[BANRYU]

At this point, I'm reluctant to make a judgment call on raising Darkfliers to S or keeping them in A given how even the debate seems to be. I suppose for now I'll put it into S/A Limbo.