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What makes a great hack?


Nastyt
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What makes a great hack?

I have recently gotten into play FE hacks and have come across some great ones as well as some that are very poor. So I wanted to get opinions on what makes a hack great.

First off I want to express that it is hard to make a solid hack. Balancing characters, creating maps, and writing an immerse story line all take time and effort. However, this is a list of things that I have found to make a hack generally enjoyable.

Balance/Difficulty

I think most people would agree balance is very important. Nobody likes a game were everything you have is OP and its as simple as just moving your units forward to win. I think I prefer games to be a little more difficult, but at the same time I want to be able to outsmart the scenario not just abuse save states to progress. I think this is the hardest thing to get right in FE. There are so many things to consider, how many characters you have, how many enemy's in each level, xp, character growths, just to name a few.

Maps

For me this is extremely important. Maps are are canvas where everything is painted. the story, characters, everything relates to the map. Part of the reason Pixar movies are so successful are because the colorful interesting worlds they create.

I also think they heavily influence the game play. Maps that are to wide open or too choke pointed often aren't fun to replay. If you cant tell already map flow makes it or breaks it for me. Another example of maps influencing game play are large maps. They are a double edged sword because something like Cog of Destiny in Fe7 is a pretty large map with a ton of enemy's, however its flows well because of the multiple ways the enemy's flow towards you. The flip side of that are large maps where you spend most of your time trekking your 11-13 units across a huge space, that kills the momentum of the level and makes them drag.

Story

I know for a lot of ppl this is extremely important. Although I appreciate good story telling, I generally do no follow the plot very closely.

Characters

For me I want the characters to feel different. This is another hard thing to sum up quickly, it is also something that is hard to execute. I guess this would be partially story and balance combined. I have to tip my cap to hackers that can make you invested in a character. Mark is a pirate you get in the Last Promise. He is my favorite character I have come across in a hack. He walks the fine line of being really good but not being OP. He also has a really cool black berserker "in battle" skin. Another reason I like him is because he was pretty clutch in some tight spots. These are the reasons I have found him to be a solid character, even though he doesn't have a ton of back story( that I know of)

Mission variance

This is something Midnight Sun had a ton of. I have to hand it to them, it was ambitious. They tried a number of different mission types. Some worked really well, others not so much. This is something that isn't priority 1, or 2 for me, but it is a nice change up.

Other stuff

I think some ppl think that because there hacking a FE game they have to give you 2 cavs and a prepromte at the beginning, or they need to include things that are staples in the game. I think it is a breath of fresh air when I play the hacks that don't do this. One of the major reasons I play hacks is to get away from from the rinse repeat formulas that are present in some of the FE games.

so those are my thoughts. What does the hacking community think goes into a great hack?

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I can't really speak of projects but one of the things I like most in any FE is class and item variance to keep things interesting as far as combat goes, and being able to handle most situations

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What makes a good hack is akin to what makes a good game, but I suppose the major things are that hacks have to introduce something new not seen in the game, typically new maps, but new weapons and classes, albeit unnecessary, are cool too. The big difference is that they are extensions to a game and not new games themselves, so they have to introduce something new.

I could talk ages on what makes a good game, but I'll touch on what you brought up and just speak what comes to mind. I hope you don't think I'm all over the place here.

Balance/Difficulty

I think most people would agree balance is very important. Nobody likes a game were everything you have is OP and its as simple as just moving your units forward to win. I think I prefer games to be a little more difficult, but at the same time I want to be able to outsmart the scenario not just abuse save states to progress. I think this is the hardest thing to get right in FE. There are so many things to consider, how many characters you have, how many enemy's in each level, xp, character growths, just to name a few.

I agree that balancing is important and for most of the reasons you highlighted, so I don't have much to add. I'll say this instead: It's not as important as you'd think. Or rather, it's more accurate to say it's not as straightforward. You can actually stretch it pretty far.

Take FE6's hard mode. Statwise (and JUST statwise), there are several OP characters: Shin, Fir, Rutger, Milady, to name a few. But Shin, Fir, and Rutger, despite having fuckall ridiculously flawless stats (and in the SMs case the +30 crit bonus) are actually balanced by the range limitations in that game (Fir is also balanced by being level 1, but I digress). No bow or sword user gets more than their favorable range in that game (with two tiny exceptions, one of which sucks and the other you don't get in the main game). For them, 2-range (or 1-range in Shin's case) is extremely annoying to deal with (impossible in Shin's case).

Massive amounts of OP things are great as long as they have weaknesses, and those are the weaknesses of those three.

The only really OP character in that game that everybody can agree on is Milady (if you debate this you are missing the point), who has all the tools to use 1-2 range effectively with her 7/8 movement points in addition to one-rounding things with javelins and generally being a top-tier tank. But she could be fixed by simply swapping her stats with Zeiss' stats (except level and CON) and giving her that speed weakness (maybe another nerf, this may not be enough). She's still a top-tier tank, but she can no longer one-round things as easily. She'll get bogged down eventually. More importantly, this no longer makes her definitively better than other units (except the armors, but that is an entirely different issue).

Btw, this doesn't make Zeiss broken with his new (even more) ridiculous stats, since he's still an Est with a low weapon rank and a low level (still at level 7) entering chapters in which the enemies start to become extremely badass (that's his weakness). Ironically, if his stats are swapped with Milady's he's actually a worse tank.

This actually brings me to turn requirements. You have to force people to complete maps quickly, or it really throws off the balance. What seems like an obvious conclusion in the face of arena abuse is dwarfed by the fact that having the ability to turtle through every single situation is bad. Reinforcements are best used to force the player to move quickly. That's why even though FE6's turn requirements for ranked are a joke, you still have to complete most maps quickly because reinforcements are so harsh in that game.

Maps

For me this is extremely important. Maps are are canvas where everything is painted. the story, characters, everything relates to the map. Part of the reason Pixar movies are so successful are because the colorful interesting worlds they create.

I also think they heavily influence the game play. Maps that are to wide open or too choke pointed often aren't fun to replay. If you cant tell already map flow makes it or breaks it for me. Another example of maps influencing game play are large maps. They are a double edged sword because something like Cog of Destiny in Fe7 is a pretty large map with a ton of enemy's, however its flows well because of the multiple ways the enemy's flow towards you. The flip side of that are large maps where you spend most of your time trekking your 11-13 units across a huge space, that kills the momentum of the level and makes them drag.

Choke points and wide open spaces are both good in moderation. I have a feeling that when you say wide-open spaces you are imagining Shadow Dragon, New Mystery, or *shudders* Awakening, where it was mostly a chore to get across those giant maps and the massive area made strategy hard and in many, many cases, just plain boring. For all of its praise, FE4 has this same problem. A thing about map designing is that you have to change it up. Personally, one wide open map isn't bad, but it's not good to have multiple wide open maps in a row.

I bash New Mystery for open maps, but one of the most amazing things about their map design is how all of the gaidens were nothing like the standard chapters. It was a refreshing break that forced you to change up strategies instead of using the same tried and true method from before. That is how maps should be designed. When you have a map to get to a castle, have another map to actually take over the castle.

Generally speaking, any map a standard player could reasonably solo (with any unit at all) is also a badly designed map. Standard FE practice is of course to make a map that makes one utilize an entire team. This is generally done by making them numerous and by making the enemies always a threat (i.e. Manaketes did shittons of damage in FE6 and their accuracy made hiding on mountains a futile effort) or by directly doing it with Thracia's minimum unit requirements.

Multiple paths is the phrase you are looking for, I believe. The big thing that makes maps suck is linearity. You want multiple ways to get to the objective, even if it's something simple like "the right path or the left path?".

Any map that seems too linear can also have additional objectives like rescuing villagers, and visiting towns, and stealing and pilfering chests with thieves.

Roy is actually one of the best lords gameplay-wise, because his weak stats in the face of FE6 HM enemies add another dynamic in the fact that you have to protect him.

Btw, thieves cheese making good maps. They add so much depth to the game and options to use them should be added whenever possible. They add another dynamic because now you have more weak units that you have to protect or you can't get the goodies on the other end of the map and of course they add another objective in getting said goodies. Thieves should always have combat weaknesses. Generally speaking they should always have poor strength and defense, though introducing ones like Astohl or Legault before the enemies get tougher is acceptable as well.

I love assassins but from a gameplay perspective they should be their own class, not attached to thieves. Although it doesn't make much sense considering the types of people they are, they should also not be able to pick locks.

On that note, chest keys should never be a thing except in cases where you *cannot* have thieves (and even then, just remove chests from said maps and put them elsewhere), because they make getting chests mundane and boring. Need to get that objective? Just send the invincible Oswin with a chest key. Yeah no. Door keys are acceptable in some cases, but should be avoided if all door maps also include chests. Unlock staves are cool, however, since they aren't usable by every unit and the ones that do use them are generally just as frail as thieves.


Story

I know for a lot of ppl this is extremely important. Although I appreciate good story telling, I generally do no follow the plot very closely.

Characters

For me I want the characters to feel different. This is another hard thing to sum up quickly, it is also something that is hard to execute. I guess this would be partially story and balance combined. I have to tip my cap to hackers that can make you invested in a character. Mark is a pirate you get in the Last Promise. He is my favorite character I have come across in a hack. He walks the fine line of being really good but not being OP. He also has a really cool black berserker "in battle" skin. Another reason I like him is because he was pretty clutch in some tight spots. These are the reasons I have found him to be a solid character, even though he doesn't have a ton of back story( that I know of)

I put this on the same level as you do, except I will actually look at the plot if it seems even remotely interesting (I'll give it more of a chance, basically).

I could talk about good story-writing for days, but I'll be brief and start with this: don't make Mary Sues. The same concept for characters' battle abilities applies to their personalities as well. They have to have weaknesses. There are some exceptions (who doesn't like Sanger Zonvolt?), but none of those should ever be the main character. It is almost always only acceptable for the main character to be flawless if they are a silent protagonist (like Link from LoZ or Riou and Tir from Suikoden). Keyword is "acceptable", because even then, a lot of that is because it is very difficult to give those characters flaws. Typically it's only done with silent protagonists if the player themselves make a bad decision (i.e. choosing for Riou to run away from his responsibilities).
You mention Mark from TLP. I didn't really grow attached to him, but then, I didn't use him a lot. A lot of your platonic affection for him is presumably the fact that he spends less time talking and more time splitting heads in chapters. Another interesting point: if you did not use him in combat no doubt you would not like him as much. As they say, actions speak louder than words. It seems obvious, but I never hear it talked about. Rather strange considering this is what makes silent protagonists so good or characters that talk little so good. There's a reason the 3-13 archer is a fucking legend.
Protip: If you make any easily dislike-able player characters, but that you want the player to grow attached to before they redeem themselves, make them very good in combat. Same applies to enemies.

Mission variance

This is something Midnight Sun had a ton of. I have to hand it to them, it was ambitious. They tried a number of different mission types. Some worked really well, others not so much. This is something that isn't priority 1, or 2 for me, but it is a nice change up.

This is more of a specific example of something I covered above. It's an extension of the "changing the maps up" idea. But not all mission types are created equal.

"Defeat all enemies" is a bad mission type, because it offers only one way to reach the goal. It's linear. There's less ways to approach it since all valid strategies end with you killing everything. Adding villages can help, but only if it is very urgent that you reach them (like if a brigand is within 10 or so spaces from a village on the other side of the map. Even then, that's a dynamic that doesn't need the "defeat all enemies" map requirement.

"Escape" however, oh man. The almighty escape chapters are where it's at. Easily the most fun simply for the amount of tension that they bring, being surrounded on all sides and wondering what your next move will be and how you'll keep all of your allies alive. In a way they are linear, which contradicts what I've said earlier, but the tension is what makes escape chapters, so they have lee-way. If you want to avoid said linearity, you could take an escape chapter and add multiple objectives an escape points, you'd get something amazing. Something like this:

http://www.fireemblemwod.com/fe5/guia/cap6.htm

As stated before, mission variance can include multiple objectives (like rescuing villagers or visiting towns). Those should almost always be added whenever possible.

Other stuff

I think some ppl think that because there hacking a FE game they have to give you 2 cavs and a prepromte at the beginning, or they need to include things that are staples in the game. I think it is a breath of fresh air when I play the hacks that don't do this. One of the major reasons I play hacks is to get away from from the rinse repeat formulas that are present in some of the FE games.

Prepromotes are actually really important, because they provide lee-way if you mess up and make the beginning too difficult. Just don't make a Seth and shoot for a Jeigan and you'll be fine. A Seth eliminates options, since it's almost always the best choice and has no downside.

As for cavaliers, they aren't necessary, but their multiple weapon types (multiple options for a situation) and amazing utility along with the fact that they have weaknesses (typical STR/SPD split) make them good choices for starting units.

Edited by PowerOfKaishin
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It's an interesting question, certainly, insofar as greatness is qualitatively measurable and definable.

Let's begin with the definition: "greatness" is not lopsided, it is a totality of circumstances. Consider a project that invests its mental energy and resources solely into the perfection of balance and map design, with a plot and characters that leave much to be desired. "That hack has great gameplay" does not automatically become "that is a great hack."

Then, we have our measurements. The original poster covered the obvious important ones. I'll add two more.

Innovation: This ties together a lot of the other metrics. "Map variance" within the context of the series means "please don't make a game with only seize maps." Rather, brand new map objectives would likely result from map variance. I don't feel that any of the stated measurements here truly capture the importance of creativity. You could make a great mechanical Fire Emblem game while still being thoroughly unoriginal. Innovation is an approach, it's the difference between seeing chapter goal variance as "so I need a good distribution of Rout/Seize/Defeat Boss" and seeing it as an opportunity to create new gameplay experiences.

Presentation: To me, this covers the little things; using screen blackouts to hide event changes properly, consistent grammatical styles, stuff like that. It's easy to tell when a project lacks polish, the effort that goes into getting everything right is a strong indicator of greatness.

Balance, map design, engaging plot, interesting characters, and goal variance: those things all in conjunction make for a good hack. Attention devoted towards innovation and presentation, in my observations, really take that effort to the next level, i.e. "greatness."

Edited by Arch
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Well, it is a difficult question and no unified and standard answer to it.

Firstly, the standards of difficuly between an official game and a gack is quite different. Why did someone make a hack? The guy who is willing to make one is usually an expert at that game. He has played through the game again and again and has a deeply understanding of it. At last, he lost his motivation to the official one and seek new challenges for himself. That's why many hacks are too fucking difficult to play >_< It is aimed at the CU rather than the LU. BTW the most difficult mode of official FE is more and more fucking difficult. I believe you get it well if you have played the 4 stars mode of New Mystery of the Emblem or the L+ mode of Awakening. SL is quite necessary(SLG= Save & Load Game). To complete a chapter of Awakening L+ mode, you may need a hundred times of restarting. Em, I am fairly serious. To some fans such as me, reseting is not a really annoying thing. On the contrary, it is necessary. Everything going steady is not interesting. For an instance, the reinforcements can act immediately when they appear in FE6, that's pretty well. As a strategy game, memorizing the appearances of the units is the basic principle. To conclude, reseting is a "fight" between player and maker, and it is that process that make game interesting, and players will gain greater fulfillment and satisfaction in it.(Quite like Touhou STG, players reset and reset and reset and…… beat it finally^O^)

As for the difficulty design of FE, there are different types:

FE2--->Its really confusing map. I heard someone got lost in the woods for half a year without a guide map. To find the last boss is much harder than to defeat it. Considering its uniqueness, nothing more can be discussed.

FE3--->You will encounter D knights at first. Someone's growing rate is quite low.

FE4--->Its extremely inconvenient system for item exchange. You should keep it in mind in the whole process. It represent another type---setting barrier to player in the system. Similarly, viewing the range of an enemy is not allowed in FE10 M mode, so you need to calculate yourself.

FE5--->Its strict ranking system. I spent a month to achieve the SSS ranking, and this type is what I prefer. A overall situation idea is required.(I had arranged for the last chapter before I played the first chapter. That is just what an excellent strategy means.)

FE6--->A overall situation is also needed to complete the SS ranking but the standard is quite loose.

FE7--->Though it is easier than FE6 to play through it but the standard of ranking is stricter.

FE8--->No difficulty at all. Even a noob can play through it without any efforts.(Seth with javelins blows out everything.)

FE9--->In M mode the quality and quantity of enemies are amazing and the weapons at the beginning are not rich.

FE10-->Most noobs have less value in M mode.

FE11&12--> The most difficult mode is aimed to core fans. Reseting for a better LVUP is common.

FE13--->L+ Mode in classic mode is a nightmare. Even with the best strategy you have to reset for several hours( even several days) to complete one chapter. However,someone has beaten it without DLC on Nico. No mater how anti-humanity a game is, core fans will beat it>_<

FE13 DLC The Strongest One's Name---> Both atatus and strategy are essential to pass it. In order to play through it, many researches and trials are interesting. I finished my 500+ hours playing on it after I passed the ri-mode and got the Supereme Emblem one night.

In a word, a great game is the one which a player is willing to spend his precious time on researching it repeatedly and enjoys it every time. That is what a success means.

Edited by MisakaMikoto
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FE13--->L+ Mode in classic mode is a nightmare. Even with the best strategy you have to reset for several hours( even several days) to complete one chapter. However,someone has beaten it without DLC on Nico. No mater how anti-humanity a game is, core fans will beat it>_<

Not to derail the topic but in the Awakening section, there's someone who's been doing no DLC Lunatic+/Classic speedruns (sub-3 hours real time), and someone who's finishing up routing for a resetless no Wireless/DLC/deaths run (as in doing the entire thing without ever saving). Just beating it is a cool achievement but nothing that special.

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  • 3 weeks later...

What makes a good hack is a hack that's actually finished.

Way too many hackers bite over way more than they can chew, adding custom sprites, pallets, portraits and too much fluff. By the time they reach chapter 3, they're exhausted and the hack ends up in limbo.

Finish your hack, then make ajustments to it.

Then it will probably be a good hack.

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  • 2 weeks later...

What makes a good hack is a hack that's actually finished.

Way too many hackers bite over way more than they can chew, adding custom sprites, pallets, portraits and too much fluff. By the time they reach chapter 3, they're exhausted and the hack ends up in limbo.

Finish your hack, then make ajustments to it.

Then it will probably be a good hack.

All of the zero-effort nightmare hacks beg to differ. "Sacred Overhaul" is just the most recent of these (the "developer" didn't even bother to play through to see if it was beatable). A hack is better once it is finished, but it has to be decent for that effect to be noticeable. It's still important to start small though. Heck, rebalencing hacks are great as long as the reballencing is done well ("yet another fire red hack" is a good example).

Edited by sirmola
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I'd also say that, at least for hacks that do more than just change stats and portraits (so those that fiddle with mechanics, classes, and of course anything that uses custom maps of one level or another), that trying to do the entire hack and then releasing it actually makes it harder to do overall refinement. You've got a 15 chapter hack, you keep it under wraps until you release the "finished" product, then it turns out you made a critical misjudgement in chapter 3. Turns out the way you expected people to play it isn't the way the typical player actually picks, and now their party isn't balanced to deal with what you chuck at them in the remaining 12 chapters. Imagine having to fiddle with most of your hack to account for your earlier error.

But if they'd released an alpha once the first five chapters were complete, it would be easier to fix the problem and adjust whatever was coming next depending on what you saw players do and what other feedback you received. Plus you get more encouragement that way.

The best hacks in my opinion, are ones that are adjusted due to player input as they're being developed. And in my case I prefer chocolate as opposed to reskins, because story is a big draw in pulling me onwards. It doesn't matter what changes are made to gameplay, there's only so many times I can play through the FE7 maps and story.

That said, I do think properly done reskins (such as FE7 Chaos Mode) are well worth playing. It's just not my sort of thing.

Preferred gameplay, map design, art etc. is bog standard; no lazy shortcuts. No just plonking a few units on a map without thinking about how they'll affect map flow. As little tile spam as possible, maps that lend themselves to more freeform gameplay, and maps that actually look interesting. And at least try to throw in interesting ideas every so often; I don't want to look at a map, think of a plan and then find it works flawlessly every time. I don't want each map to play in a similar way to the last. Every so often I want to be caught off guard; not in a cheap way that doesn't give you a chance to react before you (or those newly spawned escortees) get ploughed under, but in a way that changes the battlefield mid map in an interesting way. Mass tile changes (e.g. simulating flooding or the arrival of an enemy ship into port), new enemy forces, new ally forces etc., It requires more thought and more intensive programming, but it makes a hack more interesting for me.

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I feel that player input helps immensely with quality. Unless you are very experienced, you are liable to make misjudgements and mistakes, and player input fixes these (heck, this is true even if you are intsys. See code name steam's update that adds an enemy phase fast forward.) It helps to have this input before the project is done (lack of said function massively dragged down reviews at launch.) That being said, you should really not bite off more than you can chew for earlier projects. Do short hacks (a few chapters) first. If a project is only a chapter or two, you can probably release it complete, because that' how long an alpha would be anyway..

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  • 1 month later...

Here's an important component of a good fire emblem: the map and chapter objective have substantial impact on how you play the chapter. Many chapters have alternate objectives but play as rout chapters anyway, with the savvy player simply seizing, escaping, or boss-killing at the end. Make it hard, but not impossible, to play every chapter as a rout.

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