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Makaze!!!!!! I can have a better name now!

Anyway on to actual content not seeing how terrador was looking for power roles. Makaze actually deciding to jump of a "wagon" bothers me because if he was town why would he be so cautious being on an rvs "wagon" in the first place? It may just be makaze was messing around really but eh it isn't giving me good feels.

I have always been killed in my chat mafia games for being too aggressive/voting my gut. I don't want to be lynched early like in my other games.

I don't really care who I vote for so far, but until further notice, my logic is the same as ZeeEmm's.

Still three days left to change my mind, if someone presents actual evidence of scummy-ness.

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...which I was literally just doing.

##Unvote

##Vote: General Ciraxis

You've already contradicted your approach here--I'm scummy for asking a theoretical question, and I'm scummy for not trying to make something happen, which I was very clearly doing? Let's talk about that.

I'n retrospect, your question may not be inherently scummy. I'll admit it was a poor assumption to make.

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Eh, if I'm going to look like scum as usual, might as well post as often as I like.

I have gotten used to being thought scum right off the bat because I have never played on a forum and the game was always fast-paced. I have gotten it into my head that people will think I am scum regardless of my actions because it's me. It will take me a while to actually sit back and relax on a forum plane.

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I'm here what are your other two wishes

ZeeEmm seems quick to add a third vote onto Dudeaga, even though no real information has been produced yet. Didn't produce any valid reason to add on to Dudeaga's wagon.

Unvote## Pascal

Vote## ZeeEmm

You admitted yourself that no real info has been produced, yet you still voted for someone with little reasoning? Sketchy.

Seems scummy that you're inquiring about possible power roles this early in the game. It's far more important for the Mafia to identify Power roles, so they can kill them during the night.

Just because it's "RVS" does not mean we can just mess around and ignore the focus of the game, which is to identify scum and lynch them. Trying not to scumhunt during RVS allows scum to skim under the radar and to prevent meaningful communication.

Nobody really makes any serious votes during RVS so scum-hunting is only appropriate when there's enough info to go on. Being overly aggressive in your voting/scumhunting during RVS makes you look overly eager and only attracts wanted attention.

I'n retrospect, your question may not be inherently scummy. I'll admit it was a poor assumption to make.

Your backtracking isn't really a good sign. Makes me even less sure of you.

##Vote: General Ciraxis

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Nobody really makes any serious votes during RVS so scum-hunting is only appropriate when there's enough info to go on. Being overly aggressive in your voting/scumhunting during RVS makes you look overly eager and only attracts wanted attention.

I don't think you mean what you think you mean...

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Agreeing with Pascal; going back on what you said makes you seem suspicious in my eyes. Especially since it was right after someone pointed out the contradiction.

##Unvote Dudeaga

##Vote General Ciraxis

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Oh, man, getting swordsaged is always funny.

@Makaze (Note, this isn't a vote, just bolded to catch your attention): What do you think about massclaiming? When, if ever, do you think it would be appropriate to do so? Do you think that it would ever be pro-Town to lie in a massclaim? If so, who should?

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Oh, man, getting swordsaged is always funny.

@Makaze (Note, this isn't a vote, just bolded to catch your attention): What do you think about massclaiming? When, if ever, do you think it would be appropriate to do so? Do you think that it would ever be pro-Town to lie in a massclaim? If so, who should?

I'm not sure I follow. What is massclaiming?

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I'm here what are your other two wishes

You admitted yourself that no real info has been produced, yet you still voted for someone with little reasoning? Sketchy.

No real info had been produced before ZeeEmm made his vote, but the act of ZeeEmm adding another vote at this stage of the game seemed scummy.

I voted for him with little reasoning, because at this early stage of the game, what I consider worthy of a vote is fairly low. A small amount of reasoning is still something.

It's worth noting, before anyone points out my very first post with a vote on Pascal, it was done with the purpose of getting the game started, and to gauge even the smallest possible reaction.

Nobody really makes any serious votes during RVS so scum-hunting is only appropriate when there's enough info to go on. Being overly aggressive in your voting/scumhunting during RVS makes you look overly eager and only attracts wanted attention.

That's the problem. Just because people don't make serious votes during RVS does not mean that's helpful to the town. People need to be serious with their votes, because acting randomly is something I consider to be anti-town behavior, and only serves to slow down meaningful progression.

Your backtracking isn't really a good sign. Makes me even less sure of you.

Everybody makes mistakes. Think of me what you will.

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Maybe I shouldn't have tried to play two games at once. Ah well. . .

I'll try and get caught up in this game right after I do so in Almost OCs. While I'm here, though:

What is massclaiming?

It's when everyone is prompted to claim their role in quick succession. I'll not give examples of when this is typically called for, since that's what Terrador seems to be wanting to see in your reaction.

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Maybe I shouldn't have tried to play two games at once. Ah well. . .

I'll try and get caught up in this game right after I do so in Almost OCs. While I'm here, though:

It's when everyone is prompted to claim their role in quick succession. I'll not give examples of when this is typically called for, since that's what Terrador seems to be wanting to see in your reaction.

Ah, I see...

Would you would not want to give away your true role at all? Whether you are on the town side of the mafia side, claiming anything other than Vanilla Town can get you killed.

I'm sure there are more complex situations, but as a Doctor, Cop, or Mafia, I would have no incentive to state anything other than Vanilla Town.

Did I guess right?

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Maybe I shouldn't have tried to play two games at once. Ah well. . .

I'll try and get caught up in this game right after I do so in Almost OCs. While I'm here, though:

It's when everyone is prompted to claim their role in quick succession. I'll not give examples of when this is typically called for, since that's what Terrador seems to be wanting to see in your reaction.

Huh, GP? Didn't think you were new enough to be in this game. Serves me right for not poring over the player list properly yet! It's thirteen people long. I should be able to do this.

@Green Poet: Can you tell us about times in prior games you've explicitly lied to the town (falsified results, faked claims, etc.) as a pro-town role, if any? If you have examples, please share why as well~

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Wouldn't you not want to give away your role at all?*

My bad.

There are some roles that would need to be claimed early, like miller. Miller's always read as mafia when scanned by cops. Claiming the role would probably prevent cops from wasting investigations on you, and to make it harder for actual mafia to "fakeclaim" miller.

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Ah, I see...

Would you would not want to give away your true role at all? Whether you are on the town side of the mafia side, claiming anything other than Vanilla Town can get you killed.

I'm sure there are more complex situations, but as a Doctor, Cop, or Mafia, I would have no incentive to state anything other than Vanilla Town.

Did I guess right?

It does tend to draw attention, but massclaim can also establish credibility and allow you to counter scum masquerading as a power-role. Not saying you're wrong, as I'm no GAME THEORY GENIOUS, but thanks for the response~

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Seems to me that under game theory, the logical step is for every single person to claim Vanilla Town. Mafia would have reason to claim Doctor or the like in the event that they want to oust the true Doctor. In general, doing that comes with a risk (makes your own death likely), so that's less sound as general strategies go.

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Seems to me that under game theory, the logical step is for every single person to claim Vanilla Town. Mafia would have reason to claim Doctor or the like in the event that they want to oust the true Doctor. In general, doing that comes with a risk (makes your own death likely), so that's less sound as general strategies go.

So, just to make it clear--you think that, generally speaking, nobody should out their [powerful] role unless it's no longer relevant or they have useful informational results? [dead man getting targeted, guilty inspect, that sort of thing]?

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You should only claim if it's a role that could attract a lynch if discovered by someone else (like say, a role that prevents others from seeing what you do at night i.e Ascetic) or if you need to prove you're too important to lynch (like a role that lets you see the role of someone else at night, i.e Rolecop).

The mafia can lie and pretend to have an important role when close to being lynched in order to save themselves, although they have to convince the others.

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So, just to make it clear--you think that, generally speaking, nobody should out their [powerful] role unless it's no longer relevant or they have useful informational results? [dead man getting targeted, guilty inspect, that sort of thing]?

Yes. I'm open to criticisms of that idea.

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Huh, GP? Didn't think you were new enough to be in this game. Serves me right for not poring over the player list properly yet! It's thirteen people long. I should be able to do this.

@Green Poet: Can you tell us about times in prior games you've explicitly lied to the town (falsified results, faked claims, etc.) as a pro-town role, if any? If you have examples, please share why as well~

I was under the impression that I was newer than you are, actually. Anyway. . .

. . .lol, were you thinking about the same instance I am?

I've only lied/gambited once as town, in P3 mafia where I was a bomb and had OC with the dayvig. I claimed dayvig in the hopes of drawing nightkills away from him and reflexively killing scum.

Terrador, your surveying seems like a theoretically townie play to get us out of RVS in a game of mostly newbies, but I have to ask - what sort of reactions are you hoping to get, and what will you use them for? To construct hypothetical meta on people, or something else?

I mean, it's not as though Makaze would have said "I think we should all massclaim now" in response to your last question; I'm sure there would be at least enough coaching in scumchat going on to prevent anyone from slipping.

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Anyway still a bit wary about makaze. Even if he may not be as experienced with forum mafia I still feel as if it was weird play and should be noted. Especially when he says I don't want to be on a "wagon" but then votes ZM anyway which is essentially hopping off one and on to another basically.

General Ciraxis your thoughts on the game so far, do you still think ZM is leaning scum?

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I was under the impression that I was newer than you are, actually. Anyway. . .

. . .lol, were you thinking about the same instance I am?

I've only lied/gambited once as town, in P3 mafia where I was a bomb and had OC with the dayvig. I claimed dayvig in the hopes of drawing nightkills away from him and reflexively killing scum.

Terrador, your surveying seems like a theoretically townie play to get us out of RVS in a game of mostly newbies, but I have to ask - what sort of reactions are you hoping to get, and what will you use them for? To construct hypothetical meta on people, or something else?

I mean, it's not as though Makaze would have said "I think we should all massclaim now" in response to your last question; I'm sure there would be at least enough coaching in scumchat going on to prevent anyone from slipping.

You just seemed super sharp and good at what you do. I've got a lot of experience, theoretically, but applicable and recent experience? Pretty much none.

I wasn't thinking of that instance, but--now that you mention it, I do recall this! Thanks for the information.

As for the surveying--I didn't really expect any slips, although I must admit I thought Vashi freaking a bit under such immediate attention if she's scum was a real, if slim possibility. I was hoping to establish metas and thinking patterns for players, so I understand what they THINK is protown, which I can compare to what they DO. While we don't have anything relevant to this game to work with, might as well learn about the players while I can.

And it appears I've been swordsaged by YoungXenahort. Jumping on a wagon with a dangerously large early amount of pressure on it? Even though I agree with that wagon [at least with the very minimal information we have], this is shady.

##Unvote

##Vote: YoungXenahort

Why drop a vote on Ciraxis with literally no stated reasoning? We're a bit past that, and frankly, jumping on an already-large wagon without contributing to it isn't exactly townie behavior.

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