Another Timeline Theory + Morgan's Origins [Spoilers]

[moxis]

I know this topic has been discussed to death and I know I'm like 1000 years late to the discussion, but I only played Awakening recently, and looking around online I realised that nobody has managed to come to a satisfying conclusion (other than "Morgan is a big mystery and impossible to explain"). But here is my go at attempting to figure out the flow of timelines in Awakening, including Morgan's past, amnesia, etc.

If I'm wrong and there is already a better thread talking about this, please direct me to it because I want to read it as well, lmao. Anyway, here are the diagrams I came up with, followed by explanation and reasoning. If you spot any contradictions/oversights, please comment! I look forward to discussing them.

IF MORGAN HAS NO SIBLINGS (ie: parent is male/spotpass/second generation, and not Chrom.)

[ Original Timeline ] (OT)

• Avatar keeps memories → Joins Chrom → Succumbs to Grima → Grima doesn't kill Naga → Lucina/others go back to GT, followed by Grima.

[ Future Past DLC ] (FP)

• Avatar keeps memories → Joins Chrom → Succumbs to Grima → Grima kills Naga → Lucina/others unable to go back → Grima summons two Morgans from ATs → Future Past DLCs occur → GT Avatar gives AT1 Morgan a second copy of their book → AT1 Morgan is sent back to GT by Avatar and their memories are wiped.

[ Game Timeline ] (GT)

• Lucina/others arrive from OT → Grima follows and attempts to possess this Avatar → Avatar's memories are wiped → Avatar joins Chrom → Resists Grima → Morgan arrives from FP → Grima is defeated/sealed.

[Alternate Timeline 1] (AT1)

• Same events as the game timeline → Morgan is born, and raised by Avatar → Avatar gives Morgan their annotated book → Morgan is abducted by FP Grima, and brainwashed into serving him.

[Alternate Timeline 2] (AT2)

• Exactly the same as AT1, except Morgan's gender is the opposite.

IF MORGAN HAS A SIBLING (ie: parent is first generation female, or Chrom.)

[ Original Timeline ] (OT)

• Avatar keeps memories → Joins Chrom → Morgan and sibling are born → Avatar gives Morgan their annotated book → Avatar succumbs to Grima → Morgan is raised with their sibling → Grima doesn't kill Naga → Lucina/others go back to GT, but Morgan is abducted by FP Grima and brainwashed into serving him.

[ Future Past ] (FP)

• Avatar has memories → Joins Chrom → Morgan (of alternate gender) and sibling are born → Avatar succumbs to Grima → Grima makes this Morgan his servant, and kills Naga → Lucina/others unable to go back → Grima abducts the Morgan from OT → Future Past DLCs occur → GT Avatar gives OT Morgan a second copy of their book → OT Morgan is sent to GT by FP Avatar and their memories are wiped, planting instead memories of growing up with Avatar.

[ Game Timeline ] (GT)

• Lucina/others arrive from OT → Grima gives chase, and on arrival attempts to possess this Avatar → Avatar's memories are wiped → Avatar joins Chrom → Resists Grima → Morgan arrives from FP → Grima is defeated/sealed.

ISSUES AND QUESTIONS

Q. Why does Avatar join Chrom in OT and FP?
A. In all timelines, their mother runs away with Avatar and attempts to shield them from their fate. Sometime after separating from her, Avatar went to Ylisse, possibly looking for Chrom in order to team up against Grima, since they expected Validar to bring about his return eventually.

Q. What happened to Avatar's mother?
A. Nothing is implied, so while the most obvious possibility is that she died sometime before the events of the game, there is nothing to support that, either.

Q. Why does Avatar succumb to Grima in OT and FP, but not in GT?
A. Avatar is raised knowing their lineage and expecting their fate, perhaps making them think of Grima's eventual possession as something unavoidable. And they didn't have Lucina to help foresee and thus prevent the events at the Table. In GT, their only memories are that of Chrom and their friends, making their bonds that much stronger, and they aren't conditioned to fear Grima. All this plus Lucina's help, and seeing her defiant in the face of fate, game GT Avatar the chance to resist Grima.

Q. Why are there two Morgans in the FP storyline?
A. They aren't twins, but rather two same Morgans from different timelines, both used by Grima to serve as his followers. Only one of them was sent back to GT, and the other's fate unknown. (...Although there is this topic.)

Q. What's the deal with Morgan, and the two sets of timelines depending on their other parent?
A. Morgan is where it starts to gets complicated.

If Morgan is remembered by a sibling, there must have been a Morgan in OT. However, if their parent is a second generation character, or a spotpass character who died in OT, Morgan cannot have existed in that timeline (and has no sibling to remember them anyway). This second type of Morgan must come from yet another timeline (AT1), since he cannot have been born in FP either. Thus the two different paths.

In both cases, Morgan owns two identical books that Avatar gave them, and since one of them was given to them during the Future Past DLC, the Morgan that arrives at GT must be the same as the one we see in FP. Therefore, they must have travelled through the FP timeline before arriving at GT. The one responsible for this must have been Grima, pulling Morgan from their timeline and using their parent's appearance to manipulate them into serve him.

The main issue that arises is that Morgan apparently has recent memories of Avatar. This makes no sense, since in OT, Avatar was possessed by Grima when Morgan was young, and in both cases he has spent the latest period of his life in service of FP Grima. My explanation is that these are fake memories, planted by FP Avatar in order to help them find GT Avatar. It seems that FP Avatar, with the last of their strength, attempted to give Morgan a chance for a better life with GT Avatar, and manipulated their memories in order to facilitate their reunion. (The Morgan remembered by a sibling could be a different Morgan altogether, yes, but if that were the case, what happened to them? I'm trying to tie up as many loose ends as posible here, and the fake memories theory is simpler.)

...And that's all I have, unless I've forgotten anything. Let me know what you think!

Edited July 15, 2016 by moxis

[TheWerdna]

I am a proponent of a similar theory, though this one only has 4 timelines and works the same regardless of if Morgan had siblings or not. This is the Future Past = Failed Game timeline.

Timeline 1: Original doomed future timeline. Grima wins here and the Future children go back on time to timeline 2. If Morgan has a sibling then they exisited in this timeline but did NOT go back in time. Otherwise they did not exist here.

Timeline 2: Future Past. This timeline plays out just like the main game up throufh the Plegia arc thanks to the Future Kids involvement. However like in the original timeline the Valm war takes place years later and is far bloodier. This causes a butterfly effect that leads to Validar getting the full Fire Emblem and thus his magic is stronger so that Robin kills Chrom. Despite having stronger bonds with everyone Robin becomes Grima (though they can resist his control where other Grima Robins cannot.) Everyone including the time travelers die, leaving only their youngerselves alive. The timelibe is worse off due to Grima being both stronger due to having some power leftover from timeline 1 and due to foreknowledge (he knew exactly where the kids would be in the DLC when in other timelines he did not. Other details changed like Tiki surviving long enough for Lucina to know her and the full Fire Emblem being still around

Morgan was born in this timelin regardless of who their parents are. This Morgan ends of serving Grima until the events of Future Past, where the game Robin gives them the annoted book. They later end up traveling to timeline 4 with no memories, but with both copies of the book as seen in the hotspring scramble.

Timeline 3: Identical to timeline 1, only they travel back to timeline 4 instead.

Timelime 4: The game timeline.

[moxis]

That works quite well actually! The most interesting difference is how the Future Past is a timeline to which children have travelled to, rather than a simple unaltered one like Lucina's. That would be a good way to set Morgan's origin in a single point regardless of if they has siblings or not. I'm not sure if there is evidence in the game to reveal if FP is a timeline to which the children travelled or not. I thought there was dialogue hinting that it's not, though.

Lucina: This is just like MY future. Where I came from! It's all so similar...

But it could be anyway. Another thing I'm not sure about is how Morgan could have been born in a timeline where Avatar is possessed by Grima. They must have been born before Avatar Grima is revived, so quite early in the timeline. (Actually, this is also an issue in my theory, if Morgan is born in OT. In any case it must be possible. Lucina is able to remember Morgan as a brother from her future, so that's that.)

In your theory, like in mine, there are two would-be identical timelines that go drastically different ways, for no apparent reason. (Your timelines 2/4, and OT and FP in mine.) In yours you say the Valm war in timeline 2 occurs later. Why do you think that could be?

In my theory, the reason why FP is different to OT is that Grima kills Naga, thus not allowing the children to return to the past (as explained in the game). Perhaps the Grima in FP learnt somehow from OT Grima's experience and purposefully trapped the children in the future? I think they mentioned at some point that the Grimas in different timelines are connected in some way, so that could explain it.

[TheWerdna]

Well we know Robin becomes Grima 10 years later in the original timeline than they *almost* do in Awakening, due to both the Plegia and Valm wars being dragged out. So Morgan would be able to be born in both the original timelime and Future Past under this theory. In fact, it makes the most sense that they were born in such a timeline. They would have been very young too, like 6 or 7 when Grima took over, so easy prey for being brainwashed to his side.

While yes there is no dialogue evidenve, it would explain how this timelime is different. For one Tiki is alive and FP Lucina knows her, while te future Lucina we know never did. So somethingsomething changed for her to not die as early as she did.

We also have the Fire Emblem still intact, meaning some event had to have changes to avoid its destruction.

Then we have Robin resisting when the Grima!Robin in the main game did not. I think this shows a Robin who too had anenesia and thus was closer to everyone. Those stronger bonds allowed them to find the strength to keep fighting, to try and stoo Grima and make amend for leading to everyone's deaths.

Finally we have several the other future kids all remark through dialogue they get with their FP selves that when they made it back with the gemstones they saw no resistance. These fights in FP never happened in their timeline, almost as though Grima knew exactly when and where they would be.

Now, I have a yheory for what changed. In fact we see the character tied into this: DLC Yen'fey. See, we know he comes from a timeline where he did not take the deal from Exelsus and instead fought back against Valm. This would mean Valm had to spend far more time putting down a full Chon'san resistance, meaning they could not afford to invade Ylisse until several years later. Then when the war did finally happen there would be no rebellion from Cron'san, dragging out the war longer as Valm would have a bigger advantage against Ylisse. Perhaps Basilio died in the war despite Lucina's warning so the gemstones were not switched out.

Also in the game there is no explanation as to why the Valm war happened years sooner than is did in the OT. So this conviniently fills in that plot hole.

As for Future Past Grima, it is less a case for a connection and more that we had a Future Grima possessing future Robin there just like in the main game. Only that future Grima takes over past Robin in the end and rejoin with the version of Grima in that timeline. So we thus have Grima from timeline 1's memories inside the Grima!Robin in timeline 2, and thus has foreknowledge. He would also be stronger due to have leftover power from the time traveling Grima (who lost most of his power, but not all) thus being able to kill Naga, something none of the other Grimas were powerful enough to do.

Also the thing with Morgan is that even if they have a sibling the unpaired epilogue for them says they are from a different timeline from the other kids. So while in the sibling case there would be a Morgan in timeline 1 & 3, we never see this Morgan. In fact, this is supported by the sibling conversations F!Morgan has. Her siblings all seem to think she is from a different timeline then them... almost as if they know their Morgan can't be there. Perhaps the Morgan in timelines 1 & 3 (who only existed there in the event of a sibling, otherwise there would be no Morgan in thos timelines at all) ended up dying and their siblings know it. Or less darkly that Morgan vanished due to working for Grima in those timelines too, with their siblings not knowing what happened to them and putting in doubt if this Morgan is theirs or not.

But besides that the theories are the same. Robin wipes her memories and implants false ones when she is sent to the past, etc

Now, I know I am biased in liking this version due to how it works really well for Robin's who married one of the time travelers (see avatar pic for evidence of said bias) as it would work really well for Future Past being a failed timeline. Extended peace between wars would lead to tine for Robin and 2ed gen to have a kid.

But yeah, that in a nutshell is my version of a theory. Honestly this whole idea is my favorite thing to theorize, to the pain where I even wrote a fanfic based on this theory ("A Future Disowned", shameless plug), lol.

Edited July 23, 2016 by TheWerdna

[moxis]

Oh my goodness, this all actually makes so much sense! I'm totally seeing your theory. To be completely honest I didn't remember that the Avatar in the original timeline had been possessed 10 years later than they almost are in the game timeline. Do you know when they mention this?

Nice job spotting the way in which Yen'fay could have changed the timeline, I hadn't thought of it.

[TheWerdna]

Oh my goodness, this all actually makes so much sense! I'm totally seeing your theory. To be completely honest I didn't remember that the Avatar in the original timeline had been possessed 10 years later than they almost are in the game timeline. Do you know when they mention this?

Nice job spotting the way in which Yen'fay could have changed the timeline, I hadn't thought of it.

Well Lucina first says that she came from over a decade in the future when history took a dark turn. It makes zero sense for her to have come from only 10 years in the future when we know most of the future kids are only like 2-3 years younger than their parents, most of whom who in turn are all around their early 20's or late teens, Since due to a combination of statements made in game plus a think in the art book we know that at the start of the game Emmyrn was 24-25, Chrom was 18-19, and Lissa was 14-15, so it makes more sense that the ten years line was instead pointing to the point when everything went to hell. Plus most of the kids haven't been born yet and had memories of their parents, meaning there had to be a longer period of time anyways where they could be born and have those memories.

I can't remember when it was said, but I do recall a mention in the game that the Valm war happened far sooner than it should in this timeline.

[moxis]

But it's stated in the game that none of the kids had ever seen the world not ruined by Grima. But if it had taken Grima ten more years to be revived, that means that most kids would have been old enough to remember a world untouched by the destruction he wrought. Lucina would be twelve, for example. I always thought that when Lucina said she came from a decade in the future that it was just an oversimplified estimate... Because it's true that ten years is definitely too soon for the kid's ages to make sense.

Lucina: Yes, more than 10 years hence. After history takes a dark and most destructive turn...

I mean, she does say "more than", and to me she seems to be referring to the time when she directly comes from. The "dark and destructive turn" seems to happen earlier.

Either way, we know that the Plegia and Valm wars were dragged out, so one way or another the Avatar must have been possessed some time later. But not as much as ten years, I think.

[TheWerdna]

When was it stated that none of the kids remember a time when things were not destroyed by Grima? I could just not be remembering the line, but I always figured they had very few memories if the pre Grima world due to being fairly young children when everything went bad. Like since Lucina is described as a newborn post timeskip, the 10 year idea would have her be 10 at the time. All of the other kids would be at the oldest 9 and some likely much younger. You could make the argument at a 5 to 8 year old would have very few memories of a pre-Grima world.

Plus we have the detail that Lucina learned how to fight from Chrom when she was a kid, so she had to be old enough to undergo some sort of meaningful sword training.

Edited July 25, 2016 by TheWerdna

[moxis]

Hmm, I'm not sure where the best example is, but right now this one comes to mind.

Cynthia and Laurent's ending

Longing to meet his mother's intellectual standards, Laurent took his wife on an expedition around the world. The hidden wonders they uncovered awed Cynthia, who had known only a world of ruin.

But whether or not Grima was revived one or five or even ten years after Lucina's birth doesn't change much anyway. Avatar is still possessed by Grima at the Dragon's Table, as we see in Premonition. It just happened few years later than in the game timeline, due to the wars being dragged out, giving time for Morgan to be born.

But yes, the fact that Lucina learned to fight from Chrom is an important detail. She would definitely need to have been old enough for that before the events of Premonition... So you're probably right to say that it must have been ten years or so. This makes me think some of the other children, at least Cynthia, must be quite a lot younger than her.

[TheWerdna]

That would make a lot of sense for Cynthia, as she along with Morgan and Nah (who in her Harvest Scramble conversation with F!Morgan says they are the same age) are the youngest of the 2ed gens. I would guess they are likely around 13 or 14, so you could make the argument they were only 3-5 years old when Grima destroyed everything. That way they would likely only have a few vaugen scattered memories of the time before that since you develope your first permanent memories at about three years old and generally have few from before you are 4 or 5. So it would make sense for Cynthia as one of thr youngest not to remember the time before. The other kids would fall somewhere in between, like Laurent who can't be more than 1-2 years younger than Lucina since he ends up being older than her with an extra 3 years he got due to time travel shenanigans

But yeahn due to the Lucina detail I would guess it would have to be somewhere in the 8-10 years range.

Edited July 25, 2016 by TheWerdna

[moxis]

I had a question about Yen'fay. I understand how it was his choice to take Excellus' deal or not what defined the length of the Valm war; which is why it was dragged out in the original timeline and not in the game timeline. However, in your theory, this also happens the timeline of Future Past, right? So FP Yen'fay didn't take the deal, despite FP being more of a paralel to the game timeline than to the original timeline? I understand this is the critical change that led to Validar obtainig the full Fire Emblem and Grima being revived.

In general, what was it that made the Future Past timeline fail, instead of happening like the game timeline? They had the help of the children from the future, so in theory they had all they needed for a successful victory.

[TheWerdna]

Well the way I see it the gane timeline only just barely succeded. In the end the only reason Robin managed to not kill Chrom was a combination of stronger bonds to everyone and the fact Validar lacked the completed Fire Emblem. The later is important, as having the Fire Emblem boosts his magic and thus his ability to control Robin.

My theory is that the longer Valm war would have created a butterfly effect that eventually led to Validar getting the full Fire Emblem instead of one with 4 of the gemstones swapped for fakes. An easy way this could have happened is if in this longer, bloodier Valm war Basilio died like he did in the original timeline and thus the gemstones could not be swapped out without Validar knowing. Either they swapped them anyways and thus Validar had them stolen, or they were never swapped. Either way the outcome would be Robin being forced to kill Chrom and becoming Grima, due to Validar's magic being too strong to resist.

[moxis]

I see. Yeah, your theory is solid, the only question being why Yen'fay refuses the deal thus extending the war in Future Past, rather than it all happening like in the game timeline. But timeline differences have to come from somewhere, after all, and that's a good a fork in the story as any.

[TheWerdna]

That is true. The problem is we never get an explanation on that in regards to spotpass Yen'fey. Somewhere along the way something has to just change for no real reason, as under this theory the characters who come from that timeline arrive too late in the game to be the cause of things moving quicker. So at some point a leap of faith has to be made and just puck some point that changed.

Also this theory can allow for (but is not nessessary for the theory itself) the whole twin Morgans idea. Since there are two minor pieces of evidence that could be used to support the opposite gender Morgan being an unamed twin. The first is that they respond to Robin as their parent even though they are not the gendered Morgan, Robin just doesn't speak to them out of not recognizing them. The second is in the sibling supports for F!Morgan, with her sibling suggesting maybe they not try to get their memories back so they don't remember people they may of lost. It could have just been a generic statememt regarding their parents or friends, but it could also be used to allow for a twin who in the original timeline may have died and unlike the fate of the Morgan of that OT their older sibling knows what happened to the twin.

Then again I like that idea mainly as it lets me headcanon my way it a second child for my Robcina pairing, and because it works really well to have Morgan be female and then give Morgan's japanese name of Marc to the male Morgan

Edited August 1, 2016 by TheWerdna