Dragon laguz and their children (spoilers)

[Lyricanna]

New to the forums, hope this is within the rules ^^;

Is there any information available about laguz pregnancies? Been playing the numbers game and Ena being pregnant threw me for a loop at the end of RD; she was either pregnant for 20+ years or at least 3 and either has bizarre implications. Izuka saying that Almedha hadn't seen her child in 15 years also threw me, especially since Almedha admitted that she and Ashnard had a falling out 20 years prior to RD (although neither seem to be super trustworthy sources of information!). So I'm wondering how long the dragon laguz are typically pregnant for, if this would change with a half laguz pregnancy and if there is any real way to calculate Soren's age (the true motivation behind this post!)

Game info welcome, fan theories encouraged ;)

[Genuine Uncertainty]

Branded age slower than humans, which is why Soren looks younger than he is.

[Chiki]

Remember that Soren is half human and he grows quicker.

[Lyricanna]

Hence the problem in aging him =P Especially if we cannot figure out when his mother actually had him; his age range is actually 15-20 which struck me as kind of strange. Although I suppose that Michaiah's would be worse to try to figure out.

[BrightBow]

One thing to consider is that the birth of a branded causes the Laguz parent to loose it's power.

Tibarn even states legends that describe the parents of Branded as turning into something that is neither Beorc or Laguz.

Now, in the case of Lehran this happened after the birth of the baby. But in Almedha's case, she said she "became useless to him" after becoming pregnant and loosing her powers. Which sounds like she lost her Laguz powers during the pregnancy, maybe as a side effect of being the mother of the child rather then the father.

So the duration of her pregnancy isn't bound to the usual standards of dragons. It might well be a normal Beorc pregnancy.

Edited January 6, 2014 by BrightBow

[Lyricanna]

That's a very interesting point to consider =) I honestly hadn't thought about that.

Although it seems Lehran is a special case in general; he can still do magic even though he lost his laguz powers, which always puzzled me. But then I think that when Yune get's cut off answering Ike's "god of the middle road question" I do think Lehran might have been the answer.

[Magical Glace]

That's a very interesting point to consider =) I honestly hadn't thought about that.

Although it seems Lehran is a special case in general; he can still do magic even though he lost his laguz powers, which always puzzled me. But then I think that when Yune get's cut off answering Ike's "god of the middle road question" I do think Lehran might have been the answer.

The magic he uses is tome magic. It has nothing to do with being a Laguz.

[Lyricanna]

And that's the thing; the laguz shouldn't be able to learn it. Staves I can understand to an extent since herons can heal those in close proximity in RD, but no other laguz can use tome magic. If it were something available to all of them to learn, I think Reyson would have been on that a long time ago.

[Zkirsche]

Laguz don't use magic because they have inbuilt physical weapons and their culture looks down upon mages as cowards.

Why was Ena pregnant for at least 3 years again?

[BrightBow]

And that's the thing; the laguz shouldn't be able to learn it. Staves I can understand to an extent since herons can heal those in close proximity in RD, but no other laguz can use tome magic. If it were something available to all of them to learn, I think Reyson would have been on that a long time ago.

Just because we never seen any, doesn't meant they can't use magic. Galdrar are magic for one thing. Nasir described it as seid magic,

And he said that the herons never developed combat skills and that even if they had such means, they wouldn't have used them because it's against their nature.

Considering that the Heron's had access to the "dirge of doom" and didn't use it when facing genocide, that's probably true. Unfortunately RD decided to ignore that with the introduction of the magic cards.

As for the other tribes, I am not surprised we never see any mages, since they follow a culture of strength. So it wouldn't be a surprise if they don't respect such skills.

If someone wanted to do magic anyway, they would require access to Tomes and knowledge of the Ancient Language, making things even more complicated.

Plus, the Galiean's in particular are quite stubborn and inflexible. Since they never needed to do anything but defend their home, when they went to war, they were completely clueless on how to deal with a simple castle.

Ranulf flat out stated that it doesn't even occur to his fellow Beast Laguz that they couldn't just power through anything.

In that environment, a mage would be something quite out of the ordinary.

As for dragons, they have magic items at least. Given how the country is extremely secluded, they must create items like Kurth's sending stones with their own power.

And during battle, the canonical power of a dragon beats anything that a mage could pull, so there is little need to show it during gameplay.

But I would like to note that Deghinsea was using a powerful area effect attack just like Sephiran and Ashera. But admittedly, I don't remember if the graphic effect looked a lot like magic or not.

Also to note, the attack that Raven's gain though the Occult scroll works and looks exactly like Elwind when used.

Edited January 7, 2014 by BrightBow

[NinjaMonkey]

Laguz don't use magic because they have inbuilt physical weapons and their culture looks down upon mages as cowards.

In that case, why (in Radiant Dawn) does the breath of White Dragons do magical damage, and not physical damage? Also, aren't White Dragons the Laguz equivalent of the mage class?

Edited January 7, 2014 by NinjaMonkey

[Paper Jam]

Why was Ena pregnant for at least 3 years again?

Because she gave birth to Rajaion's child at least three years after Rajaion died.

[ViewtifulBo]

Well human anatomy is different from laguz anatomy so who knows how long on average it takes to birth a laguz or branded. Using Ena as the base of my hypothoseis they (roughyly) take longer than humans do. As to why Sephrian can learn/use magic? Its a tome and with enough study and perserverance, anyone can use it, albiet some are more talented than others. Laguz's primary way of attacking is with whatever was endowed to them, Tiger/Cat// Lion Laguz have claws and roars, Hawk and Raven tribes have Talons and flight, Dragons have breath. Herons are unique in the fact that they cannot fight or rather in most cases, choose not to and are quite peaceful. But they do have songs which are pretty much a unique form of magic so I could see why if anyone could pick up magic, it'd be them first.

[Lion Branded]

Just thought that I'd add that there is another Laguz that can attack with magic. He's even a King! Naesala does have the ability to use a long range 1-2 space wind magic attack and that goes to show that the Laguz are capable, but remember that all of the Branded are exceptional in on stat or another and that when a Laguz have a child with a Beorc they too become Branded. So "Branded Lehran" using magic and being awesome at it is in line with the rest of the story.

[NinjaMonkey]

As to why Sephrian can learn/use magic? Its a tome and with enough study and perserverance, anyone can use it, albiet some are more talented than others.

I'm pretty sure that the reason that Sephiran can use a tome has something to do with the fact that he lost his Laguz powers after he got Altina pregnant.

Just thought that I'd add that there is another Laguz that can attack with magic. He's even a King! Naesala does have the ability to use a long range 1-2 space wind magic attack

Which he forgets how to do in the three years between the end of Path of Radiance and the beginning of Radiant Dawn.

Edited October 29, 2014 by NinjaMonkey

[BrightBow]

We were never given a reason to assume that Laguz somehow can't cast spells. So why would Sephiran need a special reason to be able to use Tomes? The only requirement we know of is the ability to speak the Ancient Language. Which he can do. Probabaly better then any Beorc Sage. I mean, Soren specifically said that he can't read anything beyond simple spell texts.

The fact that we've never seen a Laguz that cast any spells from tomes means very little when few of them can speak the Ancient Language in the first place. Heck, Mordecai said that his tribe normally doesn't even use words to communicate and that they learn to speak the modern language so that they can communicate with the other tribes. And the Ancient Language was specifically stated by Nailah to be very complicated, which is why it was replaced by the Modern Language in the first place. A Laguz would have to go far out of their way to learn it.

To summarize:

The Laguz have less need for magic since they have superior power to make up for it. They have a culture that favors strength. They communicate with grunts and growls most of the time and don't bother that much with the modern language. And given that they are all escaped slaves, it's hardly a miracle that nobody of them can read and speak such a complicated language. I mean, who would have taught them? Their masters would have little need for them to possess these skills. And when they escaped, they probably didn't bring any books with them, let alone such specific books like those that deal with the Ancient Language. And they are xenophobes, so they probably don't want to have anything to do with Beorc stuff like magic anyway.

It would be a miracle if any mages would emerge from such an enviroment. And it would be even less likely that one of those rare mages just so happened to cross the path of our heroes. But that does not mean that it is litterally impossible for a Laguz to do so under any circumstances.

Edited October 29, 2014 by BrightBow

[Jotari]

If Ena was pregnant for three years (and wasn't even showing it during the game) then that means she conceived as Rajaion was dying, which is kind of horrifying. The other possibility is she was pregnant for twenty years and wasn't even showing by that time which would probably push Dragon Laguz gestation time in the region of a sixty+ years.

[Paper Jam]

I don't think that Ena could have been pregnant throughout Path of Radiance. What the Black Knight did to her, at the very least, should have killed her unborn child.

Anyway, the Galdr of Rebirth was an area-of-effect spell, and Ena was within its area of effect when Reyson and Leanne sang to Rajaion. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch, I think, to suppose that Ena could have magically gotten pregnant as a result of that.

Also, Soren was 19 in Path of Radiance and 22 in Radiant Dawn. In the "bad ending" of Path of Radiance, Ena said that Rajaion had left Goldoa "some nineteen years ago," and Radiant Dawn reveals that he had done so as a result of Soren's birth.

[Irysa]

I don't think that Ena could have been pregnant throughout Path of Radiance. What the Black Knight did to her, at the very least, should have killed her unborn child.

She was only knocked out by him. Laguz are pretty tough dude, she could definitely have been pregnant for some years. Given their slow metabolisms, they might not even neccessarily be aware that they're pregnant for years either.

I mean you could assume Ena's been off with someone else in the meantime but that doesn't really seem true to her character.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Irysa

[Jotari]

I don't think that Ena could have been pregnant throughout Path of Radiance. What the Black Knight did to her, at the very least, should have killed her unborn child.

Anyway, the Galdr of Rebirth was an area-of-effect spell, and Ena was within its area of effect when Reyson and Leanne sang to Rajaion. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch, I think, to suppose that Ena could have magically gotten pregnant as a result of that.

Also, Soren was 19 in Path of Radiance and 22 in Radiant Dawn. In the "bad ending" of Path of Radiance, Ena said that Rajaion had left Goldoa "some nineteen years ago," and Radiant Dawn reveals that he had done so as a result of Soren's birth.

There's multiple Path of Radiance endings? What's the bad ending?

Area of affect conception is sort of weirder. Nasir was there too, couldn't he logically be the father just as easily given that method (which is even more messed up than all the other possibilities so far)? Of course there is another explanation to all this, the Dragon Laguz have mastered the science of Artificial Insemination and they didn't have a chance to get their heirs sample until the end of Path of Radiance.

[Paper Jam]

The "bad ending" of Path of Radiance happens if Ike doesn't defeat the Black Knight, and Ena joins his army instead of Nasir.

She was only knocked out by him.

Nearly hard enough to be killed.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Paper Jam

[Paper Jam]

Area of affect conception is sort of weirder. Nasir was there too

But not nearly as close to Ena as Rajaion was. Ena and Rajaion were pretty much hugging when Reyson and Leanne sang to them, and nobody else was within five feet of them.

http://serenesforest.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/fe9cg27.png

That might not matter if the Galdr was as powerful when they sang it at Melior as when they sang it at the altar in Serenes Forest, but I'm pretty sure that it wasn't.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Paper Jam

[Jotari]

The "bad ending" of Path of Radiance happens if Ike doesn't defeat the Black Knight, and Ena joins his army instead of Nasir.

Nearly hard enough to be killed.

Huh, I knew Ena joined instead of Nasir but I wasn't aware it actually changed anything in the plot. Is Rajaion not "saved" as a result?

Edited October 29, 2014 by Jotari

[Paper Jam]

Rajaion is "saved" in both endings.

http://serenesforest.net/path-of-radiance/scripts/game-script/epilogue/ spells out the differences between the endings if you defeated the Black Knight vs. if you didn't. It's under the "Goldoa" section.

Anyway, my point was that Rajaion left Goldoa as a result of Soren's birth 19 years before the end of Path of Radiance, ergo Soren was 19 at the end of Path of Radiance.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Paper Jam

[Jotari]

Rajaion is "saved" in both endings.

http://serenesforest.net/path-of-radiance/scripts/game-script/epilogue/ spells out the differences between the endings if you defeated the Black Knight vs. if you didn't. It's under the "Goldoa" section.

Anyway, my point was that Rajaion left Goldoa as a result of Soren's birth 19 years before the end of Path of Radiance, ergo Soren was 19 at the end of Path of Radiance.

Huh so Nasir doesn't join the company at all if you get Ena. I always thought he just hung around and didn't fight like Ena did in the good scenario. Looks like I'll need to let the Black Knight kick my ass some day. If Nasir's manner towards Ike is a major thing it would give some explanation as to why they did the whole I fought without by body/let you win thing in Radiant Dawn instead of taking the simpler route and declaring the draw scenario canon.