Whats the best flaw/asset and extra class for Kamui? Im starting hoshido today

[Ghostlander]

Just curious. I want an effective kamui that wont lag behind, but I also want to be able to use dragon effectively if I felt like it. I saw a lot of people bashing dragon.

[NekoKnight]

If you're intent on using the dragon, then a Magic/Luck asset/flaw might be helpful. Modifiers = -5 str, +15mag, +5spd, -20lck, +5 res

The secondary class is up to you but you could go Knight to get Defense Formation. You should probably choose a class that Kamui won't have access to by buddy/marriage seals.

[astrophys]

Regarding the -LCK thing…. that is, of course, a good way to avoid dropping either of your offenses, without touching skill or speed either, and only access small penaties on offense growth…. but how is the enemy crit rate that results from that?

I know that the Dragonstone, of course, has a built in Crit Evade +10, but still, how impactive is the loss of crit evade from your raw stats, both in dragon form and outside of it….

I agree that -LCK makes sense thematically speaking, with Kamui being in the unlucky situation of being kidnapped as a child and put in a situation where his two families are going to be at war with each other….

I'm just wondering how it all interacts with enemy crit rates in this game….

[HTakara82]

To be honest, I think it's smarter to pick a secondary that can benefit your spouse of choice, instead. Because she/he can only rely on you for that secondary class, while Kamui has free reign on whoever he has A rank with.

[Espinosa]

Kamui should still have sufficient cevo to avoid getting critblicked owing to the sheer number of level-ups s/he'll get thanks to his first unpromoted skill. It's not Veteran, yet it should still be good enough with all that perfect availability.

[astrophys]

Well,

Nohr Prince Avatar, starting:

5 Lck - 2 Lck from Flaw = 3 Lck

+0.35 x 38 Lck = 13.3 Lck [38 levels, from 1/0 -> 20/0 and 20/1->20/20, assuming Nohr Prince/White Blood [45% lck - 20% lck flaw + 10% lck = 35%]]

+2 Lck bonus from promotoin

20/20 stats: 18.3 Luck

So the expected crit evade when not as a Dragon is 18. As a Dragon, 28 crit evade (+10 is from Dragonstone)

Without the luck flaw, and a luck-neutral asset/flaw, it would be 5 + 20.9 + 2 = 27.9 luck, or 27 luck. 37 crit evade with Dragonstone.

A luck asset would yield 36.6 luck. 36 luck.

So basically the difference between an asset, neutral, and flaw is 9 points between each of these states. Of course, +SPD or -SPD and +DEF and -DEF also have smaller 5% effects, which accumulate to 1.9 points of difference over 38 levels.

[XeKr]

dragonmode is fairly usable as long as you don’t do –Mag I think.

+Mag is okay, better in Nohr (Levin Sword decently early and Tomes in Dark Blood). Surprisingly my +Mag Corrin had a hard time doubling later, even with a +Spd Pair Up, on Hard, but maybe a little spd screwage there (you do fight a good number of speedy units in this route).

+Spd is obviously really good.

+Hp or +Def are tanky options, which imo is good for Hoshido since you don’t have that many other tanky units. Also if you do something like Dread Fighter you’re tanky against every weapon type (use Jakob for +7 Def/+15 avo) and steamroll stuff with Shurikens (reliable 1-2 range in a game where other weapons are nerfed and +2 Spd helps doubling). This probably matters more on higher difficulties though.

For flaw –Luck is fine. There could be a little trouble against +Crit classes later but Goddess icons give +4 and there’s other ways to mitigate it. –Skl is probably okay though -20% growth is a bit too much for me. –Res is okay too, since it’s only 1 point at base and -10%. The others are all usable but hurt more important stats (for maingame).

Kamui should still have sufficient cevo to avoid getting critblicked owing to the sheer number of level-ups s/he'll get thanks to his first unpromoted skill. It's not Veteran, yet it should still be good enough with all that perfect availability.

Diminishing returns sets in a lot faster now. You get like 1-4 exp per kill even if barely overleveled.

Edited July 10, 2015 by XeKr

[astrophys]

How many Goddess Icons are available in the game? How early on…. as you're right, that could majorly shore up the issues.

Moreover, if you're on the Hoshidan side, you have your Priests who get Rally Luck, which could significantly help out there.

How dangerous does -DEF end up to you in this game? I mean, Ryouma has -2 Def/-2 RES and has a 35% Defense Growth (in a class without its own Defense growths)….. -DEF brings you to 25% personal growth, and your classes (Nohr Prince, White Blood, & Dark Blood, have 10%, 15%, and 5% growth). So that would be 35%, 40%, or 30% DEF growth, comparable to Trublade Ryouma's 35% growth rate….

And Ryouma is supposed to be a really strong character (although partly due to his 1-2 personal weapon)… but Kamui of course also gets a nice Personal with Yato….

Edited July 10, 2015 by astrophys

[XeKr]

There’s one quite early I remember. And yeah easy, very early Rally Luck from Sakura/Asama.

Ryouma gets +20 avoid between his class and PRF (+50 on player phase), okay base Def/Res (and boosted by his Personal), has somewhat high Hp, Vantage can help sometimes, and Astra is really good for Dual Guard. But his durability is still fairly low later on (in Lunatic, at least).

-Def isn’t too bad as long as you don’t plan to do too much fighting on enemy phase. And obviously good tactics on player phase with a balanced team can still handle things. If you really want an Asset/Flaw you can make it work (people did –Def on Lunatic+ in FE13…, this is far from that)

Edited July 10, 2015 by XeKr

[astrophys]

That's a good point…

I was kind of wanting to get away with +MAG/-DEF or +MAG/-STR because I feel those are most representative of me.

[in the in game descriptions, according to the translations, +MAG is associated with "bright/intelligent" while -DEF is "cannot take hits" and -STR is "lacks power".]

Yeah, I was planning on a player-phase strategy….

[Featherwick]

That's a good point…

I was kind of wanting to get away with +MAG/-DEF or +MAG/-STR because I feel those are most representative of me.

[in the in game descriptions, according to the translations, +MAG is associated with "bright/intelligent" while -DEF is "cannot take hits" and -STR is "lacks power".]

Yeah, I was planning on a player-phase strategy….

Defense is a fine flaw to take, it's only a -10 to defense, and -5 to luck and resistance (and resistance is brought to 0 thanks to your Asset). Personally I'm going +Hp/-Def since that gives the best HP growth in a game with low HP growths, and the flaws of take -defense are reduced to only -5 to luck and defense growth with an HP asset.

[Ghostlander]

dragonmode is fairly usable as long as you don’t do –Mag I think.

+Mag is okay, better in Nohr (Levin Sword decently early and Tomes in Dark Blood). Surprisingly my +Mag Corrin had a hard time doubling later, even with a +Spd Pair Up, on Hard, but maybe a little spd screwage there (you do fight a good number of speedy units in this route).

+Spd is obviously really good.

+Hp or +Def are tanky options, which imo is good for Hoshido since you don’t have that many other tanky units. Also if you do something like Dread Fighter you’re tanky against every weapon type (use Jakob for +7 Def/+15 avo) and steamroll stuff with Shurikens (reliable 1-2 range in a game where other weapons are nerfed and +2 Spd helps doubling). This probably matters more on higher difficulties though.

For flaw –Luck is fine. There could be a little trouble against +Crit classes later but Goddess icons give +4 and there’s other ways to mitigate it. –Skl is probably okay though -20% growth is a bit too much for me. –Res is okay too, since it’s only 1 point at base and -10%. The others are all usable but hurt more important stats (for maingame).

Diminishing returns sets in a lot faster now. You get like 1-4 exp per kill even if barely overleveled.

Wait, Dread Fighter is a non-dlc class? How do I obtain it? I'm assuming they took away magic..

[astrophys]

Well, -DEF also gives -1 to starting defense… overall, over 38 levels to 20/20 I'd be behind by 4.8 Def. Which, of course, probably is fine if I'm being careful not to have a huge amount of enemy phase attacks per turn. At 20/15, I'm behind by 4.3 defense…. so basically, +4 damage taken per attack….

But of course, everything involves a sacrifice of some kind. -SKL hurts accuracy and particular skill activation rates pretty badly… -LCK doesn't affect starting DEF or growths, but it makes you more vulnerable to death by crit, in which you sustain triple damage. -STR hurts the damage output of your personal weapon, Yato. -MAG does carry a small speed penalty but it also pretty much kills off the viability of using magic classes or magic weapons well. -SPD is bad because speed is so valued [you'd pretty much want +MAG or +RES or a Defensive formation General secondary/marriage/buddy if you were going with this to offset or ignore the penalty to doubling]. etc….

[Espinosa]

Shouldn't you level only to 20/15 and then start reclassing for skills? A full sheet of all possible average Kamuis at 20/20 would still be pretty useful to scrutinise though.

[CocoaGalaxy]

I dunno about you guys, but worrying about death by crits/magic is probably the lesser of your worries

[Ghostlander]

I'm not really worried about super intense difficulty guys, I'm just trying to make sure my Kamui isn't ASS garbage compared to other units.

Btw, what's the best way to try to get character's their best potential skills?

[astrophys]

So are you advocating -LCK if you say is the lesser of worries, CocoaGalaxy?

[Shadow Mir]

I dunno about you guys, but worrying about death by crits/magic is probably the lesser of your worries

Try telling that to yours truly, who knows how it feels to have to restart thanks to being on the unlucky end of a critical hit.

[astrophys]

Following up from #18, that's why I feel hesitant about going with a Luck flaw, even if a -DEF flaw would make me take more damage out of the two… at least with a -DEF flaw, I know that I have my defense penalty and I can directly plan around it.

Whereas with -LCK, I imagine that even if buffed by rally luck there could be times where I'm still facing crit chances where a DEF flaw (only -5% Lck, rather than -20% lck, which leads to 5.7 more luck from levels by 20/20 plus 2 more luck from not having the luck flaw penalty , for a 7.7 luck lead) may not have subjected me to a crit chance. Ergo, more chances of random failure with a -LCK flaw in the main game, while with a -DEF flaw I can at least work out whether I will be killed or not in advance.

[XeKr]

Wait, Dread Fighter is a non-dlc class? How do I obtain it? I'm assuming they took away magic..

It's kinda like DLC. You need to have 2 paths bought and you get 2 Seals for it (plus some statboosters) when you get to My Castle. If you have all 3 paths you can get Dark Falcon as well. Since I think most people will get at least base + 3rd path, Dread Fighter is reasonable to have.

Dread Fighter gets Shuriken/Kunai instead of Tomes now. Still very good against magic users with the base Res and skills. The other major advantage early on is promoted-like base stats with unpromoted exp gain.

The build I mentioned somewhat works with Ninja as well (less durability, more Spd, higher weapon rank). You still beat mages because of okay Res and weapon triangle, you have the Asset boost and Jakob for physical attacks. And can still use Yato when promoted, which is of course useful.

Corrin is going to be one of your strongest characters regardless of what you choose because of the early chapters where he gets a significant level lead over most characters. And gets PRF stuff and Jakob/Felicia boosts.

Edited July 10, 2015 by XeKr

[Shadow Mir]

Following up from #18, that's why I feel hesitant about going with a Luck flaw, even if a -DEF flaw would make me take more damage out of the two at least with a -DEF flaw, I know that I have my defense penalty and I can directly plan around it.

Whereas with -LCK, I imagine that even if buffed by rally luck there could be times where I'm still facing crit chances where a DEF flaw (only -5% Lck, rather than -20% lck, which leads to 5.7 more luck from levels by 20/20 plus 2 more luck from not having the luck flaw penalty , for a 7.7 luck lead) may not have subjected me to a crit chance. Ergo, more chances of random failure with a -LCK flaw in the main game, while with a -DEF flaw I can at least work out whether I will be killed or not in advance.

Speaking of Rally Luck, I personally am not exactly comfortable with the idea of having my healers give up turns that would be better spent healing. Edited July 10, 2015 by Levant Colthearts

[Wayward Alchemist]

I'd go with this, personally...

Kamui (+Mag -Spd)@White Blood (Knight Secondary)

-Defensive Formation

-Deadly Breath via A support with Crimson (To make it easier to reliably kill)

-Hoshido

-Astra/Dragon Fang (Depending on your preference; Luna and BS wouldn't be as good because most units have low Res/Mag to begin with)

-Filler, maybe Servant's Joy, Counter, Renewal, or something that makes you harder to kill?

[Mango Giamatti]

I'm not sure why people are hyped about making sets around Defensive Formation. Yes, it's good for sets that can't double, but why would you want to build a set that can't double in the first place? The dragonstone isn't that good. My first build for Kamui will be +Spd -Res. I'd rather not do minus luck because the luck penalty is pretty severe. The loss of res won't be felt because Kamui doesn't have good res anyway.

[astrophys]

I myself am interested in magic, not because of Dragonstone, but simply because I like the idea of playing a magic user, whether that be a Tome users (Dark Blood, Dark Knights, etc) or Levin Sword users (any sword using hybrid class), etc.

SPD might very well be a better option, that said….

[Wayward Alchemist]

I'm not sure why people are hyped about making sets around Defensive Formation. Yes, it's good for sets that can't double, but why would you want to build a set that can't double in the first place? The dragonstone isn't that good. My first build for Kamui will be +Spd -Res. I'd rather not do minus luck because the luck penalty is pretty severe. The loss of res won't be felt because Kamui doesn't have good res anyway.

Some people want to use the Dragonstone, mostly for the novelty. I want to use it, at least in one run. Probably Hoshido, as it won't be relevant as a Dark Blood. Also, Defensive Formation can be good for units powerful enough to ORKO, and with 25 MT, the Dragonstone+ coupled with 32 Mag cap as White Blood, generally low Resistance among enemies, and Deadly Breath as I proposed before, that would definately qualify.