Editing the FE6 Patch

[Popo]

Hey, guys. :3

I've been kicking around the idea of making some edits to the FE6 patch for quite some time now. It's a great translation on its own, but I think it could be improved upon. I would ideally like to polish the script a bit more and bring it closer to the level of writing found in FE7, and also remove any errors or inconsistencies that might have been missed the last time the patch was worked on.

I've divided the project into a few different groups. Pick what looks interesting to you. :3

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Chapters

Text for each chapter of the game.

[spoiler=Chapters]

Chapter 1 - Popo

Chapter 2 - Popo

Chapter 3 - Eclipse

Chapter 4 - Available

Chapter 5 - Available

Chapter 6 - Arch

Technical Edits

Weapon descriptions, item information, battle screen information, villager dialogue, etc. The posts under the spoiler tag were made by fade5. Feel free to fix any of the bugs listed below. Make sure you let us know what you've fixed, and post the new edits in this thread. Make it clear what you fixed, and test it if you can. Let us know if it's untested. Game text will be posted later on in the day/upon request.

* Weapons and items are only allotted one line of text in FE6. Be short and to the point. Try to use FE7 descriptions if you run into trouble.

[spoiler=Technical Edits]

Post 1

Post 2

Post 3

Post 4

Post 5

Supports

If you want to edit a support conversation, claim it here. If you've already adjusted any bugs, grammar, or dialogue for a support, please let me know and send me a link. Feel free to color the dialogue a little so that it doesn't sound so stiff and dry, but don't break too far from canon. Keep the integrity of the characters.

[spoiler=Supports]

Roy/Wolt - Popo

Sue/Shin - Folgore Yellow

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For additional information and discussion, please also check this thread.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Popo

[shadowofchaos]

Here's the question...

What text editor will you be using?

FEditor causes issues via things like the Storage glitch.

[Popo]

Here's the question...

What text editor will you be using?

FEditor causes issues via things like the Storage glitch.

I have no idea. As I said, I have the time and dedication to do the actual editing, but I don't know a thing about the technical aspects of a project like this. I'm willing to learn, but even finding a starting place is pretty intimidating to me. I'm literally a blank canvas.

[CT075]

I could disable autopatches on FEditor for you if you like.

I'd rather just disable the one that causes the bug (since the other ones do useful things like ALLOW TEXT EDITING AT ALL), but I have no idea which one it is.

[shadowofchaos]

Well, I'm asking Cam about it (since I've got zero experience with Java) to take a look and see if he can disable autopatches and find out which one is causing said glitch.

If we can identify that, I can help with the support conversation area, because I've already edited a few of them for my videos... specifically the glitched ones like Chad and Ellen's.

I can help you learn the text editing format for that program if we do get the green light.

Edited March 13, 2012 by shadowofchaos

[Popo]

I could disable autopatches on FEditor for you if you like.

I'd rather just disable the one that causes the bug (since the other ones do useful things like ALLOW TEXT EDITING AT ALL), but I have no idea which one it is.

Well, I'm asking Cam about it (since I've got zero experience with Java) to take a look and see if he can disable autopatches and find out which one is causing said glitch.

If we can identify that, I can help with the support conversation area, because I've already edited a few of them for my videos... specifically the glitched ones like Chad and Ellen's.

I can help you learn the text editing format for that program if we do get the green light.

That would be awesome, guys! Thanks! :D I'll poke around the hacking forum and see if I can pick up on any of the basics. Don't hold your breath.

[Jubby]

Text editing's pretty simple once you get the hang of loading the portraits and stuff, so as long as you can handle the linguistics thing I think you'd be set :)

[Celice]

Why don't you, you know, just use Twilkitri's tools...? They were public last I saw .-.

[CT075]

Twilktri's tools are option B, but last I checked they're not as intuitive as FEditor (there are no implicit line breaks, I think control codes have to be called by number instead of with [A] or whatever), but I could be wrong.

[BBHood217]

Make the characters blink.

If you can't, then I'll settle for changing some words back to the official translation used in 7 and 8 (e.g., change "End" back to "Wait", change "Sister" back to "Cleric", etc.).

[shadowofchaos]

Make the characters blink.

That would require something called assembly... and lots of blinking frames.

[Popo]

That would require something called assembly... and lots of blinking frames.

I could provide the blinking! :D

[Onmi]

I'm going to say this, and I'm going to try to be as polite about it as possible but this is editing and it's kind of a thing I do... for other people. Are you serious about this? I mean really serious about touching it up and making the script sound smoother etc? that's great. Don't try to follow IntSys/NoAs example with Blazing Sword/Sacred Stones. Do not. Because unless you can do it well, what you are going to do is come off with a laughable script and, lets all be frank here, The official translations have that problem already. I'm going to list one example of this done horrifically bad in another translation patch

FE4, Chapter 5 end, We get our big dramatic reveal, the shit hits the fan... and then Sigurds dying words are "You Dastard!"

For the umpteenth time, I realize Dastard is an actual word, and what it's meaning is, and for the umpteenth time, this doesn't stop it from coming off as really stupid sounding. This is Sigurds death! You have literally spent 5 chapters where shit has increasingly hit the fan and Sigurd is literally had the quadruple whammy dropped on him. His sister and brother in law are dead, his wife doesn't know who he is and is married to Alvis, his father is dead, he's been declared a traitor and EVERYTHING he has fought for has been at the planning of others.

And his final death line is 'You Dastard' this is the extent of rage he can show? The worst thing is you know it doesn't sound good, you know it's only been put there because the FE fanbase likes to "Wink Wink Nudge Nudge" about translation decisions like that. Dastard wasn't chosen to be thematically correct or fit in with IntSys localization decisions, it was chosen because people figured it would be funny. It wasn't chosen to fit the scene, it was chosen to make a meme.

My advice to you, and I sincerely hope that, while you present your own touch ups, that you take this to heart.

You are not out to create a new meme. You are not out to make in-jokes for this community. You are certainly not out to make lines sound faker with the incorrect word choice, because you hold a preconceived notion that the English localized games could do no wrong in this regard.

Tomato's Mother 3 translation patch was a good example of trying to sound like NoA translated the game, and succeeding. so if you must emulate translation conventions, follow that example. If you would rather, and in my personal opinion, focus on making the script flow and sound natural? Then I direct you to the Romhacking Aeries translation of Super Robot Wars J. Because while there was plenty of jokes in the script that certainly weren't there in the original, the script itself flowed naturally, the characters were all easily recognizable and distinguishable.

You are not translating, you are editing, it is your job to make it flow, it is your job to make sure that no one is thrown out of the experience while playing. If you encounter a word like the whole 'Shit' incident, don't think "Hmmm, does this flow with what IntSys/NoA would have translated" think "Would this flow, with the script, while fitting with the character"

FE6 example? Damas, Chapter 1, Dastards. Yes this again, but it's a clear example of "Changing it because we think this is what IntSys/NoA would do, rather than what works within the confines of the script"

Dastard means someone who is Dastardly, a villain, a bad guy. So why is a Bandit, someone currently assaulting a lord and raiding villages... calling Roy the Dastard? because he doesn't mean Dastard, he means Bastard, you don't just change a letter and get the same meaning. He is a rude and foul murderer, and yet he's using terminology and words that do not fit his mannerisms or background. Yes. This is a bit part and a single word in the script. The entire thing that caused this shit storm was the word 'Shit' coming up a single time in the translation patch, during a death quote. A single word in the script.

As an editor, if you are serious about doing this, every word, every sentence, ever scene is important, nothing can be overlooked. You have to approach this seriously, if this means asking 10 people to look over the same single sentence of dialogue, and getting feedback from all 10, and still being unsure, that you test 20 instead.

If you're perfectly willing to make that sort of hard commitment, then I commend you good sir and hope that you succeed in all of your endeavors. But if you are not willing to go that far, if by attempting to make it sound more natural, it sounds faker. Go in, fix the scripting/typos, get out. Because the patch functions, no one complained until that was posted on the forums. And it will be forgotten very easily. And there are much bigger issues with other games that do deserve the sort of effort one needs to put in to this game. FE5 most definitely needs it because it's script is wooden, the dialogue does not flow as if characters were talking to one another, and it's menus are still horrifically busted, despite the fact we must know how to fix it since there is/was a perfect menu translation patch going around. FE6? with the exception of a few broken supports/points I think the script really weirdly cuts out at, not suffering a big issue.

Anyway, that's just me. Again I hope I didn't come off as rude, I don't mean to.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Onmi

[shadowofchaos]

And... you're off on a completely different tangent.

I believe she's off to fix things like this:

There are lines where [A] is completely skipped instead of being there every two lines.

... there's also the Team Arena IIRC... but that's not really important.

There was also that "delete saves" one that was screwed up by the translation patch.

And Elphin's Augury going past the text bubble. That stuff.

Verb Tense would be just plain inconsistencies that they probably missed... You're REALLY going off on a different subject, just because they pissed you off with the word "dastard". :/

FE6 example? Damas, Chapter 1, Dastards. Yes this again, but it's a clear example of "Changing it because we think this is what IntSys/NoA would do, rather than what works within the confines of the script"

Dastard means someone who is Dastardly, a villain, a bad guy. So why is a Bandit, someone currently assaulting a lord and raiding villages... calling Roy the Dastard? because he doesn't mean Dastard, he means Bastard, you don't just change a letter and get the same meaning. He is a rude and foul murderer, and yet he's using terminology and words that do not fit his mannerisms or background. Yes. This is a bit part and a single word in the script. The entire thing that caused this shit storm was the word 'Shit' coming up a single time in the translation patch, during a death quote. A single word in the script.

Assumptions, don't do it.

こんな連中ごときてこずりやがって！ = "You're having trouble with these guys!?"

"Yagatte" does NOT come anywhere close to "Bastard".

"Renchu" is just generic "this group, or those guys".

FE7 was rated E. I'm pretty sure some of the people on the translation team was going for that feel. And it just so happens that some other person translated Alan's death quote MOST literally, and they just looked it over... like most of the Support Conversations you never get to see because it takes too much effort.

As for your bandit context? IS hasn't cared much for that. Japanese has fewer rude words, and they're taken as generic "rude". There are VERY few words that people take as bad as the our little shenanigans with the "F" or "S" word.

Just like "Kusso" can be taken as "Damn"... or even like Alan said it, taken most literally. But consistency wise, it came out ONCE in the ENTIRE script, even with people's other death quotes. Now, if someone WERE to say that in their death, I'd expect one of the Western Isles people or the mercenaries like Dieck to say it.

Edited March 17, 2012 by shadowofchaos

[Onmi]

Rey, you missed the point. The point was 'If you're going to edit the script, do so in a way that does not feel foreign or forced' not "Swearswearswearswear foul language is awesome!" I agree my wording could have been better but the point was "This line sounds fake, both coming from the character and it's use in the script, you should change it" not to "Can't you guys take on these bastards" specifically but to ANYTHING ELSE that conveys the meaning while fitting in with the character saying it, in the event they are saying it.

"Can't any of you fools handle this lot?!"

"You layabouts, can't you hold off some measly knights?"

"What are they doing so close? can't you boys hold out?!"

I again, point to RHA's SRWJ script, Sai Saichi says (During the beach episode when talking to Domon) "Hey King of Bros" when that's A. not the direct translation, but it is a good capture of Sai's personality and B. maintains the meaning of the line (Sai talking to Domon)

The FE6 translation, uses Dastards. It's used because the translator wants to say Bastards but thinks it's funnier to say Dastards, even though that doesn't fit. I just presented 3 alternatives that, while not being direct translations of the line, maintain the meaning and still seem like something that would be said by a bandit leader. I didn't have to use anything worse than 'Fools' or 'Layabouts'

It's not about the swearing, it's about how the line didn't fit. Period. But hey I'm not in the head of the original translator, so tell me. Why do you think he chose to go with that line? why use Dastards. It doesn't fit via the definition of the word, it doesn't even sound like something a bandit would say. Sure in a sense it's an interpretation of the line, but not coming from the person it IS coming from.

This is what I am warning against. This is what I'm telling Popo to watch out for. Not to seed his edit with swears or what have you. but to honestly think about each line, each word, each conversation, who is saying what, where are they saying it, why are they saying it.

I am sorry that I did not make that clear.

[Popo]

I'm going to say this, and I'm going to try to be as polite about it as possible but this is editing and it's kind of a thing I do... for other people. Are you serious about this? I mean really serious about touching it up and making the script sound smoother etc? that's great. Don't try to follow IntSys/NoAs example with Blazing Sword/Sacred Stones. Do not. Because unless you can do it well, what you are going to do is come off with a laughable script and, lets all be frank here, The official translations have that problem already. I'm going to list one example of this done horrifically bad in another translation patch

That's a bit condescending, even if you didn't mean it to be. I fancy myself to be a pretty competent writer and I think I could do this well. I'm not out to reinvent the wheel; my goal is to clean things up a bit and provide a sense of continuity that I feel the current patch lacks. I don't intend to add anything that isn't there, but to hopefully clarify gray areas and add a bit more punch to the writing. As for your concerns with swearing, it isn't my intention to do too much on that front. I would probably replace Alan's use of "shit" with something else and call it a day. That's much easier and much safer than altering the rest of cast to fit with one questionable use of language.

And there are much bigger issues with other games that do deserve the sort of effort one needs to put in to this game.

As I have no knowledge of Japanese and don't really care much about the older games, I'm not interested in undertaking such a project. If someone else wants to work on that, great. :3

"Can't any of you fools handle this lot?!"

"You layabouts, can't you hold off some measly knights?"

"What are they doing so close? can't you boys hold out?!"

This sort of translation is what I'm hoping to achieve. I want to obviously retain what's being said, but phrase it slightly better.

This is what I'm telling Popo to watch out for. Not to seed his edit with swears or what have you.

I'm a girl.

[Onmi]

My apologies, both on the condescension and the wrong gender pronouns. Again, editing is something I take kind of seriously, it has been drilled into my head for quite a few years and I just... I guess wanted to make sure you didn't go about this in the wrong way.

[shadowofchaos]

I'll just put this here before I forget:

Lilina and Garret Support Fixes

Otherwise, Lilina ends up saying "Listen kid, there's no way in hell..."

XDDDD

[Popo]

My apologies, both on the condescension and the wrong gender pronouns. Again, editing is something I take kind of seriously, it has been drilled into my head for quite a few years and I just... I guess wanted to make sure you didn't go about this in the wrong way.

No worries. :3 I understand that you were trying to be helpful. It you're concerned, you can always help out. When I move into the next phase (as in, learn how to do this), I can always delegate some sections to you and we can compare notes.

[Popo]

Double post because I can. B)

Here's one sprite out of like, a billion that need to be edited. -__- Is this alright though? At least Roy will be able to blink, if no one else! Maybe I could round up a couple of spriters to help me out. If not, I'll at least make edits for the main cast. Merlinus, Lilina, Elphin, Guinevere, etc. I nabbed the base portraits from FEPlanet. Anyone know where I can find some rips with easy to remove/already transparent backgrounds? (I might have also been in the wrong PS color mode...)

[Thor Odinson]

Yeah, maybe check colour modes since it could be indexed or something when you want RGB to put in a transparency that wasn't there. Though, when you insert portraits into FEditor, it will recognise the background colour (normally that green) and clear it up itself, so you don't really need to make it transparent. There's just a specific format that the image needs to be in for it to work.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Luminescent Blade

[Popo]

Yeah, maybe check colour modes since it could be indexed or something when you want RGB to put in a transparency that wasn't there. Though, when you insert portraits into FEditor, it will recognise the background colour (normally that green) and clear it up itself, so you don't really need to make it transparent. There's just a specific format that the image needs to be in for it to work.

I was working in RBG/8 Bit Channel. Is that correct? >o< The only issue I had with transparency is that when I (lazily) tried to use the Magic Eraser in PS, the dark purple outline turned semi-transparent, ever after tweaking the options. I wasn't sure if that meant there was a transparency issue with the whole image or just the parts on the edge.

[Thor Odinson]

RGB should be right, yeah, though I usually just take the magic wand tool, select the green part (contiguous off), and hit delete. I don't use magic eraser much tbh XD

Make sure anti-alias and feathering is also off, at that.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Luminescent Blade

[Popo]

RGB should be right, yeah, though I usually just take the magic wand tool, select the green part (contiguous off), and hit delete. I don't use magic eraser much tbh XD

Make sure anti-alias and feathering is also off, at that.

Okay! That was going to be my next plan of action, but again, lazy tiemz. XD I'm glad that it wasn't actually a mode issue, probably just an eraser issue.

Thanks! <3

Edit:

Fixed it!

Edited March 17, 2012 by Popo

[Thor Odinson]

No problem :3