Dinar87 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Seeing as I have yet to play 4 and 5 I was just wondering how good their stories are when compared to the likes of PoR and RD... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentASM Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Hmm, I wouldn't normally compare the two since 4 and 5 are much older, so the story-telling is slightly more simple compared to the Tellius saga. However 4 and 5 definitely excel in world-building and make a strong effort to tell a solid story-line. In that regards, they are very similar. In fact, sometimes I feel like the story-telling in the Tellius games is inspired by 4 and 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinar87 Posted July 19, 2016 Author Share Posted July 19, 2016 (edited) Hmm, I wouldn't normally compare the two since 4 and 5 are much older, so the story-telling is slightly more simple compared to the Tellius saga. However 4 and 5 definitely excel in world-building and make a strong effort to tell a solid story-line. In that regards, they are very similar. In fact, sometimes I feel like the story-telling in the Tellius games is inspired by 4 and 5. That's encouraging...but what exactly do you mean by "world building" though and how would one replicate the qualities of the world building of 4 and 5? Edited July 19, 2016 by Dinar87 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelaar Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 I heard many people praising FE4's story. They say the ending is the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentASM Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 (edited) That's encouraging... but what exactly do you mean by "world building" though and how would one replicate the qualities of the world building of 4 and 5? "World building" is pretty much what it says; it refers to creating and fleshing out a fictional world. For example, in the Tellius games, you learned a lot about the races, countries and people and how they all fit together. Like, say, all the crazy stuff behind Begnion's politics that led up to the Serenes Massacre, which in turn caused the bird Laguz to despise Begnion. At the same time, this was connected to Ashnard's plot to take over the world, but he was actually somewhat manipulated as well. At the end of the day, you could almost imagine Tellius to be a real place that might exist. Whereas, say, in FE: Fates, you don't learn a great deal about the countries. All you really know is that Hoshido and Nohr are at war, but nobody really bothers to explain why. Nevermind the smaller territories that are basically "just there", like the tribal villages. Of course, there was the assassination at Cheve that caused the war, but they barely expand on it during the story. Edited July 19, 2016 by VincentASM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinar87 Posted July 19, 2016 Author Share Posted July 19, 2016 (edited) "World building" is pretty much what it says; it refers to creating and fleshing out a fictional world. For example, in the Tellius games, you learned a lot about the races, countries and people and how they all fit together. Like, say, all the crazy stuff behind Begnion's politics that led up to the Serenes Massacre, which in turn caused the bird Laguz to despise Begnion. At the same time, this was connected to Ashnard's plot to take over the world, but he was actually somewhat manipulated as well. At the end of the day, you could almost imagine Tellius to be a real place that might exist. Whereas, say, in FE: Fates, you don't learn a great deal about the countries. All you really know is that Hoshido and Nohr are at war, but nobody really bothers to explain why. Nevermind the smaller territories that are basically "just there", like the tribal villages. Of course, there was the assassination at Cheve that caused the war, but they barely expand on it during the story. In other words...world building is simply fleshing out each location by giving loads of information about it...is that correct? I also liked how in chapter 11 of PoR we actually see beorc racism towards laguz...if it was awakening-styled we'd only be told that they're racist towards each other because that's how shitty the worldbuilding is in awakening and probably fates Edited July 19, 2016 by Dinar87 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enaluxeme Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Sure, giving loads of information is correct, just don't think explanatory text is the only way to do it. Visual clues and character dialogues are important too. I didn't play RD and didn't finish PoR, but I can say that Genealogy did a good job for its time. In terms of world building, in FE4 you have all the salient points of Jugdral's history and the relationships between Countries at the start of the game. During the game you can see how the nobles and people of each Country behave (in Verdane they are basically barbarians, in Augustria they follow their king as long as it suits them, in Thracia they are all mercenaries, Silesia has a civil war going on and Grandbell is a backstabbing mess) which reflects the place they live in. Also, each Country as different fighting styles, as each army as a main theme going on (warriors and hunters in Verdane, mounted knights in Augustria, wivern knights and lance knights in Thracia, pegasus knights and wind mages in Silesia, swordsmen in Isaac and various other stuff in Grandbell). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinar87 Posted July 19, 2016 Author Share Posted July 19, 2016 Sure, giving loads of information is correct, just don't think explanatory text is the only way to do it. Visual clues and character dialogues are important too. I didn't play RD and didn't finish PoR, but I can say that Genealogy did a good job for its time. In terms of world building, in FE4 you have all the salient points of Jugdral's history and the relationships between Countries at the start of the game. During the game you can see how the nobles and people of each Country behave (in Verdane they are basically barbarians, in Augustria they follow their king as long as it suits them, in Thracia they are all mercenaries, Silesia has a civil war going on and Grandbell is a backstabbing mess) which reflects the place they live in. Also, each Country as different fighting styles, as each army as a main theme going on (warriors and hunters in Verdane, mounted knights in Augustria, wivern knights and lance knights in Thracia, pegasus knights and wind mages in Silesia, swordsmen in Isaac and various other stuff in Grandbell). In other words, don't just have the differences between them be explained through text. Maybe have different themed locations, different types of enemies related to each country, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enaluxeme Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 One thing I like about FE8 is how different countries have different ethnicities, which in FE8 meant that people from different places had different hairs, except the central country which was rather mixed (makes sense). While you don't have to use hairs for that, having people from different places dress in different clothes, speak in different ways, figh in different styles ecc. can have a great effect in your worldbuilding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jave Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 FE5 has a very good story for how condensed it is. It's one of the few FEs were there's an intense sense of urgency and danger. FE4 peaks at the end of Gen 1 and after that, it's all downhill. Gen 2 feels like barely anything is happening and it culminates with a truly stupid villain moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Geek Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 FE5 has a very good story for how condensed it is. It's one of the few FEs were there's an intense sense of urgency and danger. FE4 peaks at the end of Gen 1 and after that, it's all downhill. Gen 2 feels like barely anything is happening and it culminates with a truly stupid villain moment. I agree. Pretty much all the parts of FE4's story that really stand out and are praised happen in the first generation. Second generation is pretty boring, to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinar87 Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 I agree. Pretty much all the parts of FE4's story that really stand out and are praised happen in the first generation. Second generation is pretty boring, to be honest. What exactly is wrong with gen2? I haven't played the game yet you see... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah the Prussian Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 What exactly is wrong with gen2? I haven't played the game yet you see... Well, all the good guys are unambiguously good, and with the exception of King Trabant, all the villains are uninteresting. The only one who is somewhat interesting is Ishtar, the Camus, for basically being FE's Harley Quinn. The main hero is such a Boy Scout compared to his dad that it becomes impossible to take the story seriously, and the politics that made Gen 1 great are replaced with a simple rebellion. Chapters 8 and 9, though, do have good stories, because Trabant is the villain for them, and he's one of the best villains in the series. Overall I'd say that Gen 1 makes up for Gen 2, though, and the gameplay is still sublime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katie Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Tbh, even Genealogy gen 1 is bad plot-wise. I think Integrity's LP does a good job showing just how bad Genealogy's plot is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinar87 Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 Tbh, even Genealogy gen 1 is bad plot-wise. I think Integrity's LP does a good job showing just how bad Genealogy's plot is. Is there an FE game with a good plot in your eyes? What would it take to have a good plot according to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Geek Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 (edited) What exactly is wrong with gen2? I haven't played the game yet you see... Basically what blah the prussian said, though I'd personally add that Gen 2 isn't bad persay just... unremarkable. Is there an FE game with a good plot in your eyes? What would it take to have a good plot according to you? I'd personally say that the FE games with good plots are FE3 (mostly Book 2), I've heard FE5 is good, FE8, and FE9. Edited July 20, 2016 by The Geek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinar87 Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 Well, all the good guys are unambiguously good, and with the exception of King Trabant, all the villains are uninteresting. The only one who is somewhat interesting is Ishtar, the Camus, for basically being FE's Harley Quinn. The main hero is such a Boy Scout compared to his dad that it becomes impossible to take the story seriously, and the politics that made Gen 1 great are replaced with a simple rebellion. Chapters 8 and 9, though, do have good stories, because Trabant is the villain for them, and he's one of the best villains in the series. Overall I'd say that Gen 1 makes up for Gen 2, though, and the gameplay is still sublime. In other words, in order to have a good story, have each faction have a mix of good and bad people in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katie Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 FE3(both books)'s story is decent, if cliche, though FE12 ruined it by adding in a self-insert Mary Sue, which is a shame because its added subplots had good potential. FE8-10 are also decent from what I remember, though FE10's could stand to have less contrivances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 as one of fe4's more stalwart defenders, i'll be the first to say that FE4's writing has not aged particularly well it's decent, but we look for more than decent in a story these days unlike in tellius, to get a lot of the worldbuilding and characterization you have to actually go out of your way (visit villages or castles with certain characters, certain lover's conversations etc), and it honestly leaves me a bit wanting. fe5 is fantastic, though, and i highly recommend it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinar87 Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 as one of fe4's more stalwart defenders, i'll be the first to say that FE4's writing has not aged particularly well it's decent, but we look for more than decent in a story these days unlike in tellius, to get a lot of the worldbuilding and characterization you have to actually go out of your way (visit villages or castles with certain characters, certain lover's conversations etc), and it honestly leaves me a bit wanting. fe5 is fantastic, though, and i highly recommend it What's so good about 5? Does it have a good story? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah the Prussian Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 In other words, in order to have a good story, have each faction have a mix of good and bad people in them. No, not necessarily. It's possible to have a good story with black and white morality; look at the James Bond films, or Star Wars. The problem is that Seliph, especially when compared to Sigurd, is just boring. I'm fine with having unambiguous heroes, just make them interesting. A good example of this is Monster; the hero, Kenzo Tenma, is an absolute Saint, and the villain, Johann Liebert, is... well, just read the title. But both of them are so interesting to watch and see develop that it's one of the best stories I've ever seen. Seliph, meanwhile, develops, sort of, but it's extremely understated, and it's shown, not told. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katie Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 I actually like Seliph better than Sigurd. Seliph is a good character IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinar87 Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 I actually like Seliph better than Sigurd. Seliph is a good character IMO. Since I'd eventually like to write stories I'd be interested to know what you think makes a good character... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katie Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Since I'd eventually like to write stories I'd be interested to know what you think makes a good character... It depends. What is the character's role in the story, what kind of emotions do you want the character to elicit from the audience, etc. In the case of Seliph vs. Sigurd, I prefer Seliph because he takes a more proactive role in the story, as opposed to Sigurd who's more of a pinball protagonist that just gets dragged wherever the plot ends up taking him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinar87 Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 (edited) It depends. What is the character's role in the story, what kind of emotions do you want the character to elicit from the audience, etc. In the case of Seliph vs. Sigurd, I prefer Seliph because he takes a more proactive role in the story, as opposed to Sigurd who's more of a pinball protagonist that just gets dragged wherever the plot ends up taking him. I'd love my protagonist to essentially be an Ike 2.0. I want players to feel powerful when they're playing the game and I think having a powerful protagonist is a good way to achieve that. Of course, I could be horribly wrong and having someone like Ike would ruin the story... In short, I'd like the character to be strong, say what they think without regards to anyone else, start off as a commoner and ultimately be nothing short of a total bad-ass. I know this probably sounds very cringe worthy but I can't help but be honest with how I feel about this. Ultimately though, if possible, I'd let a professional writer handle the story instead of doing it myself...but it can't hurt to be prepared for the worst so I'm taking advice so I can do it myself if I need to. That's why I ask all these questions. Edited July 20, 2016 by Dinar87 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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