Titamon Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Honestly Illyana is not good No matter how resources you pump into her, she will always be hindered by those bad caps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whase Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Because the majority of units in FE10 require less effort than Ilyana and end up better. depends on your definition of better. not being able to double the final boss isn't that important. Rexbolt on Deghinsea is nice, for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Sure, Im totally going to train her up just so she can do Ike's job worse. Thats nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) depends on your definition of better. Well, if you define "better" as having worse offense, durability and mobility, then yeah, Ilyana is definitely one of the better characters in the game. not being able to double the final boss isn't that important. You're right, it isn't, but the final boss in the game is far from the only enemy that Ilyana struggles to double. Rexbolt on Deghinsea is nice, for example. And I think that Tormod's shorts are nice. no homo If he wants to use that unit, then yes. If he doesn't, then no. He should pick the units he wants to use, not the ones that you consider to be the 'best'. I imagine that the creator of this thread did not create it to get told that Ilyana is worth it if you like her. Edited March 16, 2012 by Anouleth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 my meaning was: ilyana is a pretty bad unit. if you think that training her is worth it, then that must mean that training almost any unit is worth it in your opinion because ilyana's endgame potential is like, i dunno, in the bottom 15th percentile of units. so if you're basically saying that training anyone is worth it, then why are you saying anything at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Rexbolt on Deghinsea is nice, for example. While that is really nice, you have to ask yourself: Is it worth the aggravation of training Ilyana just to Rexbolt big D? Ilyana is such a pain because of some of her growths...If the OP WANTS to use her, then he should. But no, she isnt good. I'd tell the same thing to someone who was asking about Fiona. I love her as a unit, but for fucks sake, dont use her unless you have saint-like patience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakusa Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Ilyana's caps speak for herself. She gets 5 less HP and 2 less SPD across the board except Dark. Compare this to the rest of the Arch Sages. + 1 MAG which is kind of negligible, in my opinion, considering... +/-1 DEF depending on Calill/Tormod +2 RES when compared to Tormod +1 STR which is definitely negligible -2 MAG which is yucky +2 RES which is kinda meh -1 STR -1 SPD +2 RES Those SPD hits are painful, and marginal RES advantages aren't worth it to justify the -5 HP hit, but I still use her anyway, because I like Rexbolt's animation and blatant favoritism for the adorable hungry mage. With BEXP abuse and a little bit of battle save abuse, she can easily hit all of her caps, but they pretty much nerfed her to the ground with them, so it really depends on how you want to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintessence Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) Ilyana is the unit with the best availability in the game. Which means more time of training, there's the chance to get better or worse, but I'm in favor of using her. - By early game she's doubling nearly every enemy in her chapter of appearance, she'll need to get by 16-17 sp to get better. She's not gaining much EXP so +BEXP to .99 and combat level up. I mean, it's easy to train a unit if you know the conditions that surround it, she'll be needing durability, offense and spd, so work for it. Plus, she's having nice% of crts considering the rest crt% in P1. She's present in P3 in the GMs, where Soren is having better performance than her for the first chapters depending on how good you trained her. Both of them are likely to promote to 3rd tier by the same chapter (i.e 3-5). She's having a better P4 than Soren cause she's contributing much more than Soren, she'll likely go to the Silver to help in the desert, whereas Soren is forced in GMs. Ilyana is a pretty average unit, she can go up or down, and there are plenty or resources to make her go up. Besides, why do people complaint so much about Archsage's caps? I mean, what do you, guys, want? To have early Lehran's or what? That's completely ridiculous, sages have the caps they need to. High magic and res, that's all. They aren't warriors or SMs. Edited March 16, 2012 by Quintessence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I want them to have caps that allow them to deal considerable damage in the endgame so that I have at least the slightest reason to use them in endgame. They not Warrior or SM? That is ok but they need something to realistically compete over those spots with Warriors and SMs or I will not use them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anti-Social Meta Knight Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Ilyana is the unit with the best availability in the game. Which means more time of training, there's the chance to get better or worse, but I'm in favor of using her. Availability is nice, but availability isn't enough to make a character usable. Just ask Roy. She's present in P3 in the GMs, where Soren is having better performance than her for the first chapters depending on how good you trained her. Both of them are likely to promote to 3rd tier by the same chapter (i.e 3-5). "How good you trained her" is a bit misleading. You have to consider whether the RNG is being nice to you, and if you consider that it's hard to ignore the fact that Soren's growths are better almost across the board. Ilyana's strength dwarfs his, sure, but they both have more than enough strength to handle the tomes they come with, so that's hardly an issue. Beyond that, Soren's growths are superior (if only marginally) in nearly every stat, to say nothing of his comparable bases. She's having a better P4 than Soren cause she's contributing much more than Soren, she'll likely go to the Silver to help in the desert, whereas Soren is forced in GMs. Again, what she has in P4 is availability. She can be put in more squads, but does that necessarily mean she's doing more or doing better? It's not like whatever group you put her in will be carried by her. Maybe she's CAPABLE of more, or AVAILABLE for more. But that doesn't mean she actually does more. Ilyana is a pretty average unit, she can go up or down, and there are plenty or resources to make her go up. Those same resources can be used to bring anyone else up, though, and Ilyana may not be the best investment. Besides, why do people complaint so much about Archsage's caps? I mean, what do you, guys, want? To have early Lehran's or what? That's completely ridiculous, sages have the caps they need to. High magic and res, that's all. They aren't warriors or SMs. I don't think anyone complained. Sakusa pointed out that Ilyana's caps are a bit different from (and potentially inferior to) the other archsages you pick up. And the point was valid - a stat like speed is important in any FE game, and perhaps even moreso in RD when it's double or be doubled. They all do have magic and res. I grant that. But their defenses are all pretty paltry, and two speed could be the difference between a SM hitting you once or twice. It'd be okay if she could get Rexflame and abuse that speed boost, but she can't, so it's something a player has to consider - is the risk Ilyana's caps present one worth taking? I'm inclined to believe that, if you have safer picks, it isn't, but that's a matter of opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintessence Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) Again, what she has in P4 is availability. She can be put in more squads, but does that necessarily mean she's doing more or doing better? It's not like whatever group you put her in will be carried by her. Maybe she's CAPABLE of more, or AVAILABLE for more. But that doesn't mean she actually does more. Yes she can carry the Silver Army with a flier. The point is making things less hard for yourself. Those same resources can be used to bring anyone else up, though, and Ilyana may not be the best investment. She requires time but she ends good. And yes there are units that may be a better investment, but we are not comparing Ilyana or X unit, we are just talking about Ilyana, and her pros and cons should be considered. I don't think anyone complained. Sakusa pointed out that Ilyana's caps are a bit different from (and potentially inferior to) the other archsages you pick up. And the point was valid - a stat like speed is important in any FE game, and perhaps even moreso in RD when it's double or be doubled. They all do have magic and res. I grant that. But their defenses are all pretty paltry, and two speed could be the difference between a SM hitting you once or twice. It'd be okay if she could get Rexflame and abuse that speed boost, but she can't, so it's something a player has to consider - is the risk Ilyana's caps present one worth taking? I'm inclined to believe that, if you have safer picks, it isn't, but that's a matter of opinion. No enemy is doubling a capped sp Ilyana unless a 4-E-2 SM has 34AS. In that case, there's no reason to make her battle it unless she has Resolve or something and can resist the wave of enemies. Besides, why would I put in risk someone/something if I (almost) know the consequences? Just avoid that situation. Edited March 17, 2012 by Quintessence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Is illyana really good when everything she does can be done better by others Why use Ilyana to carry the team in Silver army with flyer when we can carry the team with flyer and Calil. You know, the sage that is superior to Ilyana in every regard other than availability and even that barely matter when Ilyana is outperformed by 10+ units entire part 3 and lol justifying Ilyana over Jill or Edward or even freaking Aran (assuming we train 2 1st tier units) That hi I leave when training 1st tieres actually starts to pay of is pretty major. And lets not forget the option to carry the team with multible flyers + like Skrimir! Or even Miccy. You know, the Sage that is forced on every single one of her maps and has to be either trained or shielded? Heck assuming difficulty level where Ilyana IS reasonable even freaking Sanaki is option for Resolve bot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) You can't talk about Ilyana lategame without comparing her to other units, though, because inevitably any job that she can do can be done better by other units, and any unit slot that she takes could have been occupied by a more useful unit, and any skill that you give her could have been given to a better unit. Sorry, Ilyana... you're not very good. Edited March 18, 2012 by Agromono Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 You'll most likely screw up a lot of DB units by tending to Ilyana and it's hard to make her on par with the Greil Mercenaries. Only use her if you want to sacrifice a few DB units. Imo, she doesn't compensate for the trouble and Soren's much better and Jill, Nolan and Micaiah won't be affected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakusa Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) Yes she can carry the Silver Army with a flier. The point is making things less hard for yourself. As everyone else has said before, she is pretty much outclassed by every Sage, except maybe Tormod. I think you're forgetting that Calill exists, and she can be moved to the Silver Army, too. She requires time but she ends good. And yes there are units that may be a better investment, but we are not comparing Ilyana or X unit, we are just talking about Ilyana, and her pros and cons should be considered. If you're talking about Ilyana requiring time and ending good, pretty much every unit can take time and end good. Like Meg or Fiona. Even if her own pros and cons should be considered, the OP is asking if Ilyana should be used. Why shouldn't Ilyana be compared to any other Sage? If we're just talking about Ilyana, you can just say that pros are that she's a tactical mage nuke that gets staves upon her last tier of promotion and should be used because she hits Res. Her cons are her abysmal speed and every other magic class con, which includes low HP and Def and mobility unless you're in a desert. Unfortunately, this information isn't very helpful due to the stupid amount of generality. Unique to Ilyana is that she has the best availability in the game. However, Tormod shows up in the DB, and she's immediately outclassed by base Tormod on average. Once she shows up with the Greil Mercenaries, Soren would most likely already be on a higher level with better stats. No enemy is doubling a capped sp Ilyana unless a 4-E-2 SM has 34AS. In that case, there's no reason to make her battle it unless she has Resolve or something and can resist the wave of enemies. Besides, why would I put in risk someone/something if I (almost) know the consequences? Just avoid that situation. Unless you sink in massive amounts of RNG abuse and favoritism or get extremely lucky, Ilyana is probably not hitting her paltry Spd cap, even at 20/20/20. If you're arguing Resolve on her, why should she be the one getting it instead of Micaiah or Sanaki, who would arguably need it more if they aren't given Stillness or Shade to be kept out of combat? Edited March 18, 2012 by Sakusa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whase Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Unless you sink in massive amounts of RNG abuse and favoritism or get extremely lucky, Ilyana is probably not hitting her paltry Spd cap, even at 20/20/20. she can easily cap all stats if Bexp is used right, most units will. next to that, I'm pretty sure everyone knows Calill and Soren are better options for sages. thing is, in easy or normal mode that doesn't really matter. and it's not like you need more than 1 DB'er for completing the part 3 DB chapters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.M. Gei Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 she can easily cap all stats if Bexp is used right, most units will. gee man i totally had no idea thanks for that captain obvious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whase Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 gee man i totally had no idea thanks for that captain obvious why this post completely dedicated to insult me? Sakusa either didn't know, doesn't agree or was being sarcastic. and since I don't think it's sarcasm, it's not as obvious as you thought. (or it is sarcasm and my English knowledge is failing me. Which I don't see as an excuse to try and insult me.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) The word favoritism implies all that BEXP you have to sink into her. I thought that was pretty obvious. Anyway, use Ilyana if you like her characterwise or something or think she's cute, it's not like she's unusable. She's pretty inferior unitwise and if all you want is a good unit I suggest pumping your bexp into somebody who's better. aka 75% of the cast. Edited March 18, 2012 by Luminescent Blade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.M. Gei Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) why this post completely dedicated to insult me? lol you think that's insulting? Sakusa either didn't know, doesn't agree or was being sarcastic. and since I don't think it's sarcasm, it's not as obvious as you thought.(or it is sarcasm and my English knowledge is failing me. Which I don't see as an excuse to try and insult me.) just because you couldn't tell yes that's sarcasm and it's obvious to pretty much everyone but yourself i mean just about every unit in the game can cap most/all stats "with BEXP abuse" how is that anything special or valuable Edited March 18, 2012 by Black★Rock Shooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 You'll most likely screw up a lot of DB units by tending to Ilyana and it's hard to make her on par with the Greil Mercenaries, This is actually an excellent point against the use of Ilyana in casual play. If you train up Ilyana, you give up investing in a good unit for some of the most difficult maps in the game (DB part 3) and get in return a crappy unit for some of the least difficult maps in the game (GM part 3). Now, granted, you don't need any training whatsoever to trivialize DB part 3, but most players probably aren't flexible or good enough to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakusa Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 she can easily cap all stats if Bexp is used right, most units will. next to that, I'm pretty sure everyone knows Calill and Soren are better options for sages. thing is, in easy or normal mode that doesn't really matter. and it's not like you need more than 1 DB'er for completing the part 3 DB chapters. why this post completely dedicated to insult me? Sakusa either didn't know, doesn't agree or was being sarcastic. and since I don't think it's sarcasm, it's not as obvious as you thought. (or it is sarcasm and my English knowledge is failing me. Which I don't see as an excuse to try and insult me.) Uh. Favoritism includes BEXP abuse for specific stat gains to cap everything. For example: Lumi loves Lucia, so she would want to pump in extra stat boosters, BEXP and stuff to make her up to par with the rest of the team. Were you assuming I've never played Radiant Dawn before or something? o-o The word favoritism implies all that BEXP you have to sink into her. I thought that was pretty obvious. Anyway, use Ilyana if you like her characterwise or something or think she's cute, it's not like she's unusable. She's pretty inferior unitwise and if all you want is a good unit I suggest pumping your bexp into somebody who's better. aka 75% of the cast. And what Lumi said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) I pumped so much bexp into Lucia it's not even funny lol Remember when part 4 hit and I just stuffed a bajillion levels of bexp into her good times Edited March 18, 2012 by Luminescent Blade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakusa Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 I pumped so much bexp into Lucia it's not even funny lol Remember when part 4 hit and I just stuffed a bajillion levels of bexp into her good times Didn't you sink a good 1/4 of your BEXP into her or something? @_@ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Probably I mean I can't help that Lucia's a shitty unit but I love her so favoritism time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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