The issue of incest in FE...

[Swirl-Theory]

First off, I don't mean to insult anyone here or anything so I apologize if my post comes off as rude in any way!

On to the topic though, I'm well aware that this is Fire Emblem, a series thats pretty much known to implement incest into its storyline, but I can't be the only one that dislikes this aspect, right?

Now, I'm not talking about situations where they've portrayed incest in a negative and sinister way, in those cases I can stand it. What I'm talking about are the disgusting "sister complex" and "brother complex" situations where its portrayed as a normal thing and is added in as a (very obnoxious) joke. How anyone can find this funny is beyond me, and with the recent trend of incestuous subtext in anime, I fear this may end up polluting a serious series like FE. FE8 was extremely close to this with Eirika and Ephraim's relationship and, in my opinion, really ruined their character. I really, really, hope newer games avoid going a similar route. This is part of the reason why I liked FE:A so much, it managed to avoid gross tropes like these and had some very good portrayal of sibling relationships, Lissa and Chrom's supports were a very good example of a believable sibling relationship.

Also, regarding the non-blood related "incest", I have no problem with that since, well, they're not related, so if they somehow have to add incest I'd prefer this to be the case.

TL;DR I despise the recent "siscon/brocon" garbage trend and I hope it never makes its way into the FE series.

So tell me, with IF getting a new writer, how high are the chances that we'll end up seeing any of this in the new game? Does Shin Kibayashi have any history with it?

Again, I'm really sorry if my post came off as offensive in any way, but I'm just really worried that the inclusion of something like this will ruin the game for me.

[NekoKnight]

I don't really mind if bro-con, sis-con shows up on occasion. Like gays, if you don't like it you just don't need to support them. If marriage or romantic supports continue, I am curious to know which people will be off the table. One assumes Marx, Ryoma, Sakura and Drillz will be off limits.

Why are you trying to stomp on our wincest dreams, OP?

This is part of the reason why I liked FE:A so much, it managed to avoid gross tropes like these

Didn't find anything wrong with the lolicon pandering with Nowi?

Edited April 6, 2015 by NekoKnight

[nordopolica]

I'm more scared that they'll use a convenient 'they're not blood-related' or 'only half siblings! haha gotcha' excuse to bring back more S supports for the main character, though I doubt and hope this isn't the case. A major theme of if so far seems to be family, so I'd feel weird about romantic undertones being played even with the Nohr side, since you'd think having been raised alongside them, Kamui would think of them as more of a family than their forgotten blood relatives.

Incest is one facet of FE I've never been really comfortable with. It ruined Lachesis' character for me and I always avoid raising Eirika and Ephraim's support levels because I was just so much happier before I realised how bad the incestuous undertones are. Even so, I really doubt the head writer is going to be handling potential support conversations or the inclusion of romance so you never know.

Fingers crossed?

EDIT: Oh, and there's certainly incest in FE:A, but you kinda need to go searching for it through children characters.

Edited April 6, 2015 by nordopolica

[Awakener_]

You clearly forgotten how in Awakening we can hook up a niece/uncle relationship through a Lucina!Morgan to her uncle Inigo fathered by Chrom. Incest at it finest baby!

Honestly don't mind these incest trivial stuffs, it becoming more as a recurring joke from IS where there a sister caring very much about her brother in a very affectionate way.

Though personally I never let Erika support anyone beside Ephraim.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Awakener_

[Thor Odinson]

Lach is one thing but Eirika and Ephraim's convo is more of a case of cultural dissonance imo

I can't exactly apply it to Japan per se but in China siblings touching each other's cheek is really not weird

you westerners are weird

Edited April 6, 2015 by Thor Odinson

[Trickster]

Incest has already been in Fire Emblem, Genealogy of the Holy War to be specific. It's technically spoilers but at this point it's a case of Aerith dies and most people are aware that it happens but I'll spoil it just in case.

Deirdre is brainwashed and falls in love with Arvis, her half-brother she never met. Having a child who turns evil ala Arthurian Legend.

It has happened before but it has never been aware of/consensual/intentional.

[euklyd]

so

what was the last game that actually did incest
(FE13, 'cause you can have cousins and/or uncles/etc marry each other)

beyond that tho
hm
let's see

it was FE4

you sound like you're more or less hung up on a running FE fandom inside joke than anything else

"ha ha fire emblem == incest we're so funny ha ha ha"

(that being said, the fact that kamui is apparently related to hella very attractive people is uh...interesting. if you believe that marriage mechanics are sure to return.)

I'm more scared that they'll use a convenient 'they're not blood-related' or 'only half siblings! haha gotcha' excuse to bring back more S supports for the main character, though I doubt and hope this isn't the case. A major theme of if so far seems to be family, so I'd feel weird about romantic undertones being played even with the Nohr side, since you'd think having been raised alongside them, Kamui would think of them as more of a family than their forgotten blood relatives.

this is basically what I'd be most worried about
hooking up with people you spent most of your life thinking were you actual blood-related family is kind of
more creepy than the other
imo

Edited April 6, 2015 by Euklyd

[RJWalker]

Are we even sure you can marry characters in this game? Of all the main features that Awakening was marketted with, marriage was completely left out of the advertisement for this one. They showed off pair up, dual system, the skill system, etc. But the marriage mechanic wasn' hinted at by anything in the trailer, even obscure things.

[nordopolica]

Are we even sure you can marry characters in this game? Of all the main features that Awakening was marketted with, marriage was completely left out of the advertisement for this one. They showed off pair up, dual system, the skill system, etc. But the marriage mechanic wasn' hinted at by anything in the trailer, even obscure things.

It's more than likely there'll be a support system, which comes with support conversations more often than not. This is Fire emblem, after all.

And it's using FEA's engine.

But I don't think it'll be a marriage system like FEA, regardless.

[euklyd]

I'm honestly not sure which erks irks me more, people assuming that there will be a marriage system in this game since FE13 had one, or the fact that I think that they're likely right...

I think the outcome that makes the most sense is paired endings, though.

I mean you could probably have paired endings for siblings that don't work out to "and then they banged the end"

like in FE8 Eirika and Ephraim's paired ending was working closely together to rebuild Renais

there have been plenty of platonic paired endings in previous FE games, after all

[Swirl-Theory]

I don't really mind if bro-con, sis-con shows up on occasion. Like gays, if you don't like it you just don't need to support them. If marriage or romantic supports continue, I am curious to know which people will be off the table. One assumes Marx, Ryoma, Sakura and Drillz will be off limits.

Why are you trying to stomp on our wincest dreams, OP?

Didn't find anything wrong with the lolicon pandering with Nowi?

Although I was kinda uncomfortable with Nowi's outfit, it didn't bother me so much since she was stated to be 1000+ years old. I guess I didn't find it that strange since there are people who look drastically younger than they really are.

I'm more scared that they'll use a convenient 'they're not blood-related' or 'only half siblings! haha gotcha' excuse to bring back more S supports for the main character, though I doubt and hope this isn't the case. A major theme of if so far seems to be family, so I'd feel weird about romantic undertones being played even with the Nohr side, since you'd think having been raised alongside them, Kamui would think of them as more of a family than their forgotten blood relatives.

Incest is one facet of FE I've never been really comfortable with. It ruined Lachesis' character for me and I always avoid raising Eirika and Ephraim's support levels because I was just so much happier before I realised how bad the incestuous undertones are. Even so, I really doubt the head writer is going to be handling potential support conversations or the inclusion of romance so you never know.

Fingers crossed?

EDIT: Oh, and there's certainly incest in FE:A, but you kinda need to go searching for it through children characters.

Yeah, I'm not really worried about the Nohr side since it seems to be that everyone already knew Kamui was not related to them, thus, being kind of like living with your childhood friend?

You clearly forgotten how in Awakening we can hook up a niece/uncle relationship through a Lucina!Morgan to her uncle Inigo fathered by Chrom. Incest at it finest baby!

Honestly don't mind these incest trivial stuffs, it becoming more as a recurring joke from IS where there a sister caring very much about her brother in a very affectionate way.

Though personally I never let Erika support anyone beside Ephraim.

The niece/uncle thing didn't really bother me since it was up to the player. Even the characters themselves didn't act any differently towards each other in the supports as they would have when they weren't related.

so

what was the last game that actually did incest

(FE13, 'cause you can have cousins and/or uncles/etc marry each other)

beyond that tho

hm

let's see

it was FE4

you sound like you're more or less hung up on a running FE fandom inside joke than anything else

"ha ha fire emblem == incest we're so funny ha ha ha"

(that being said, the fact that kamui is apparently related to hella very attractive people is uh...interesting. if you believe that marriage mechanics are sure to return.)

this is basically what I'd be most worried about

hooking up with people you spent most of your life thinking were you actual blood-related family is kind of

more creepy than the other

imo

Rather than Kamui, I'm worried about the other characters supports with each other. Since with Kamui, you can just choose not to have supports that you dislike. Technically you can with the other characters as well, but the fact that it may ruin potentially good characters is a problem for me.

Are we even sure you can marry characters in this game? Of all the main features that Awakening was marketted with, marriage was completely left out of the advertisement for this one. They showed off pair up, dual system, the skill system, etc. But the marriage mechanic wasn' hinted at by anything in the trailer, even obscure things.

Even if there is marriage, you can avoid it by not marrying the person. I'm just worried about the characters who aren't Kamui since their decisions (and personality to a degree) aren't controlled by the player.

Seriously, I wouldn't want to have lets say Marx (or the dark mage guy assuming they're all siblings) ruined by being a siscon towards drills or Camilla , it would ruin them terribly for me.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Swirl-Theory

[nordopolica]

I'm honestly not sure which erks irks me more, people assuming that there will be a marriage system in this game since FE13 had one, or the fact that I think that they're likely right...

I think the outcome that makes the most sense is paired endings, though.

I mean you could probably have paired endings for siblings that don't work out to "and then they banged the end"

like in FE8 Eirika and Ephraim's paired ending was working closely together to rebuild Renais

there have been plenty of platonic paired endings in previous FE games, after all

This is what I'm hoping for; GBA-style platonic endings and not necessarily a marriage system.

Plus, I don't think I saw a space for marriage partners on the status screen which was featured prominently in FEA's.

[euklyd]

[snip]

why are you assuming that there will be unavoidable incest

full stop

[Yunanuy]

But I don't think it'll be a marriage system like FEA, regardless.

Marriage system, no (at least I hope not). Paired endings? Yes.

The thing about FE is it's always in a medieval setting, and while IS don't really capture all certain aspects of the times their characters live in, they have a thing for forbidden love, hence the constant sexual innuendo. In some cases it's really frugal and downplayed, but sometimes its downright inyoface and you can't get away from it.

Unless Nintendo and/or IS receive a bunch of complaints from concerned parents that fear that their children will fall in love with each other after playing Fire Emblem, I don't think it's gonna stop. Most people in the fandom (me included) just try to look past it and pretend none of the characters are actually thirsting for their siblings right in front of us. Unless that's their thing and they enjoy that, which is okay. Because incest is wincest, right?

Wait, when I think of it, isn't it kinda confirmed that there won't be any marriages? The status screen is basically packed. There is no room for "Wife/Husband: Name" anywhere on there.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Val'air

[Swirl-Theory]

why are you assuming that there will be unavoidable incest

full stop

I'm just scared that there will be, that's all. Mostly because it's been a popular thing recently for some reason.

Also, in case there is a marriage system (which I somehow doubt they'll take away since it was really popular in FE:A) I really don't want to marry a siscon, ugh.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Swirl-Theory

[euklyd]

are you sure you're not projecting

your belief that it's [incest is] a popular thing is probably less indicative of what FEif will look like and more relecting on whatever type of anime you enjoy watching

Edited April 6, 2015 by Euklyd

[Thor Odinson]

The FE = incest thing is more of a fandom joke than anything, since sibling-tier incest has not canonically been in anything past FE4 (and FE4 is all about history is not pleasant and in fact, quite nasty) and it's more about people reading things the wrong way either because they read too much into it or they're taking it a large notch further than what's actually there on purpose for the sakes of comedy (whether tasteful or not is an entirely different issue)

I'm pretty sure that were they siblings you will most probably not be able to marry them

[Jedi]

I'm just scared that there will be, that's all. Mostly because it's been a popular thing recently for some reason.

Also, in case there is a marriage system (which I somehow doubt they'll take away since it was really popular in FE:A) I really don't want to marry a siscon, ugh.

How can you be so sure that they won't just go back to the classic paired endings? Nothing in the advertisements have been about the support system.

[nordopolica]

I'm just scared that there will be, that's all. Mostly because it's been a popular thing recently for some reason.

Also, in case there is a marriage system (which I somehow doubt they'll take away since it was really popular in FE:A) I really don't want to marry a siscon, ugh.

Unless it's handled like Cordelia's crush on Chrom, I really doubt a close sibling relationship will hinder Kamui's relationship with the so-called "siscon" or "brocon".

I mean, look at Eirika's romantic supports.

In Seth's her mild brocon isn't really brought up at all, and in Innes' it might only be seen as a problem because Innes himself has a mild Ephraim complex. Eirika even says "Why are you bringing my brother into this?"

So if you're worried about it....I'd say don't be? Incest really isn't as much of a problem as you think it is (in FE, I mean, not in general,) and even if it is included through romantic supports with either family, even though it's not ideal you can always choose not to pursue them.

[pureblood]

I just really wish there is no "oh i haven't really thought of you as a bro/sis, so we cool. ilu too." convos in the Nohr side. That is just a lame way out.

I was okay with Eirika/Ephraim support convos. I pair them all the time. People just look into it too much.

Edited April 6, 2015 by pureblood

[TwinBlade]

Marriage system, no (at least I hope not). Paired endings? Yes.

The thing about FE is it's always in a medieval setting, and while IS don't really capture all certain aspects of the times their characters live in, they have a thing for forbidden love, hence the constant sexual innuendo. In some cases it's really frugal and downplayed, but sometimes its downright inyoface and you can't get away from it.

Unless Nintendo and/or IS receive a bunch of complaints from concerned parents that fear that their children will fall in love with each other after playing Fire Emblem, I don't think it's gonna stop. Most people in the fandom (me included) just try to look past it and pretend none of the characters are actually thirsting for their siblings right in front of us. Unless that's their thing and they enjoy that, which is okay. Because incest is wincest, right?

Wait, when I think of it, isn't it kinda confirmed that there won't be any marriages? The status screen is basically packed. There is no room for "Wife/Husband: Name" anywhere on there.

And we're assuming that it isn't possible to have more than one page of info screens? It's entirely possible... They've been in every FE Game to date.

Edited April 6, 2015 by TwinBlade

[Swirl-Theory]

are you sure you're not projecting

your belief that it's [incest is] a popular thing is probably less indicative of what FEif will look like and more relecting on whatever type of anime you enjoy watching

Why would I be projecting? That doesn't even make sense in this case. Also, if by "anime you like watching" you mean shoujo and kids shows like Precure/Pokemon then you're spot on since those are the shows I enjoy.

My belief that incest is a popular thing is because from what I've seen, it is. By that, I don't mean the anime I've watched, I don't have to watch an anime to know that it has the siscon/brocon trash in it. Usually when I look for new anime to watch, I read about it carefully to make sure it DOESN'T have such a light and positive portrayal of incest. I'm not sure why you think I'm "projecting".

Sure I may be going off on pure speculation and paranoia regarding FEif, but I just don't want this series to turn into a trashy one.

The FE = incest thing is more of a fandom joke than anything, since sibling-tier incest has not canonically been in anything past FE4 (and FE4 is all about history is not pleasant and in fact, quite nasty) and it's more about people reading things the wrong way either because they read too much into it or they're taking it a large notch further than what's actually there on purpose for the sakes of comedy (whether tasteful or not is an entirely different issue)

I'm pretty sure that were they siblings you will most probably not be able to marry them

I'm really hoping IS has moved away from all of that now, but I agree that the fanbase really likes exaggerating a lot of relationships unfortunately.

How can you be so sure that they won't just go back to the classic paired endings? Nothing in the advertisements have been about the support system.

I'm not really sure actually, I just think that it'd be weird to remove something so popular. Also, I kind of do want marriage in as well.

Unless it's handled like Cordelia's crush on Chrom, I really doubt a close sibling relationship will hinder Kamui's relationship with the so-called "siscon" or "brocon".

I mean, look at Eirika's romantic supports.

In Seth's her mild brocon isn't really brought up at all, and in Innes' it might only be seen as a problem because Innes himself has a mild Ephraim complex. Eirika even says "Why are you bringing my brother into this?"

So if you're worried about it....I'd say don't be? Incest really isn't as much of a problem as you think it is (in FE, I mean, not in general,) and even if it is included through romantic supports with either family, even though it's not ideal you can always choose not to pursue them.

Yeah, a Cordelia-like situation is something I really wouldn't like at all. I did like that fact of Eirika's supports since it just focuses on the prospective husband and not on her brocon, it's refreshing to see that. I was just mainly complaining about her supports with Ephraim.

But yeah, thanks for helping me calm down a bit. I know I shouldn't take this so seriously but just seeing something like that in a game I like just grates me. Here's to hoping the Nohr boys don't act like that, haha.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Swirl-Theory

[Lord of Gabriel Knight]

Like everyone else said, incest only appears in FE4 and 13 (and 13 seems really like and oversight). Eirika and Ephraim are not incestuous. And if something happens between two consenting adults, regardless of relations, I really think whatever they do is fine.

Just because a series has incest doesn't mean it's trashy.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Lord of Gabriel Knight

[euklyd]

Why would I be projecting? That doesn't even make sense in this case.

My belief that incest is a popular thing is because from what I've seen, it is. By that, I don't mean the anime I've watched, I don't have to watch an anime to know that it has the siscon/brocon trash in it. Usually when I look for new anime to watch, I read about it carefully to make sure it DOESN'T have such a light and positive portrayal of incest. I'm not sure why you think I'm "projecting".

Sure I may be going off on pure speculation and paranoia regarding FEif, but I just don't want this series to turn into a trashy one.

the fact that you believe this is so common to be absolutely pervasive reflects rather strongly on your own biases

EDIT: wait shit I was wrong my bad

fe6, 7, 10, and 13 all have unavoidable, canonical twincest

sorry about that; you win

Edited April 6, 2015 by Euklyd

[Ganhur]

Somehow I knew this topic would pop up...

1. There is yet any evidence that says there is a coupling system in this game.

2. As far as I am reading other people's opinions and speculations, I still have my doubts the MU is full blood related to any characters of the game. He/She could be an illegitimate child or even fully adopted by both families and the "speculated" story can still run without any problem.

3. If you consider Eirika/Ephraim incest, then that is just cultural bias. That "family" relationship is common in Eastern culture. So calling that relationship incest (AKA: abnormal sibling relationship) would be an insult.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Ganhur