dondon151 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) When the hell do we get a level advantage? E4 go up to the 60s and our team should really, at most, be level 45 or so by then, and its not like it gets that much better earlier on. Yes we kinda equal misty level because of the nugget bridge and such, but it all goes downhill unless you're facing every single trainer along the way. Why not face every single trainer along the way, unless you're actively speedrunning? If you do face every trainer along the way with a team of ~3 Pokemon, you shouldn't be trailing behind the E4 too far in levels, and you'll have a level advantage over everyone else in the game. And STAB surf/psychic is ridiculous. Then throw Thunderbolt and recovert into the mix and starmie literally outclasses nidoking in almost every area. Heck, one could use ice beam instead of recove for dragon lulz if you feel like it. Nidoking can also use Thunderbolt and Ice Beam, and it also gets dual STABs in the form of Earthquake and Sludge Bomb, although it'd much rather prefer Megahorn over Sludge Bomb. I'm not going to disagree that Starmie is better against the E4 than Nidoking is (primarily because it's a little harder for Nidoking to set up since he has some inconvenient weaknesses), but Nidoking's been around for much longer. Vine whip is stronger. Against Misty? No shit, Sherlock. But it's a really bad move otherwise. Edit: and even if nidoran > bulba, squirtle is not a tier ahead. The thing about Blastoise is that it can theoretically take on almost anything without trouble, except some electric Pokemon. Water and normal make for unresisted coverage in gen 3 and that's really enough to dominate anything in the game. Bulbasaur has pretty notable offensive shortcomings (which he needs to make up for by using Sleep Powder) and either has to rely on teammates or has to rely on whittling down opponents with auxiliary moves and wasting time. Well can you explain why the nidos are seperated by two pokes? Nidoqueen doesn't hit as hard as Nidoking and the superior durability doesn't really matter. Edited March 2, 2012 by dondon151 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) Nidoking can also use Thunderbolt and Ice Beam, and it also gets dual STABs in the form of Earthquake and Sludge Bomb, although it'd much rather prefer Megahorn over Sludge Bomb. I'm not going to disagree that Starmie is better against the E4 than Nidoking is (primarily because it's a little harder for Nidoking to set up since he has some inconvenient weaknesses), but Nidoking's been around for much longer. Slight problem: Sludge Bomb's not until after the E4. Not that it really affects the argument... Edited March 2, 2012 by Metal King Slime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 All the more reason to prefer Megahorn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) Why not face every single trainer along the way, unless you're actively speedrunning? If you do face every trainer along the way with a team of ~3 Pokemon, you shouldn't be trailing behind the E4 too far in levels, and you'll have a level advantage over everyone else in the game. Well why not just sit there in a bush training every pokemon up to level 100? If we're gonna waste needless amounts of time we might as well do it right. Nidoking can also use Thunderbolt and Ice Beam, and it also gets dual STABs in the form of Earthquake and Sludge Bomb, although it'd much rather prefer Megahorn over Sludge Bomb. I'm not going to disagree that Starmie is better against the E4 than Nidoking is (primarily because it's a little harder for Nidoking to set up since he has some inconvenient weaknesses), but Nidoking's been around for much longer. I guess yeah, but staryu is definitely comparable to them. Against Misty? No shit, Sherlock. But it's a really bad move otherwise. Well that was nido vs bulba and we were looking at contributions against misty. The thing about Blastoise is that it can theoretically take on almost anything without trouble, except some electric Pokemon. Water and normal make for unresisted coverage in gen 3 and that's really enough to dominate anything in the game. Bulbasaur has pretty notable offensive shortcomings (which he needs to make up for by using Sleep Powder) and either has to rely on teammates or has to rely on whittling down opponents with auxiliary moves and wasting time. This is a good summary of why bulba < squirtle, I guess. But if we have teammates that are better at something, I don't see why we shouldn't use them. W/e its minor anyway. Nidoqueen doesn't hit as hard as Nidoking and the superior durability doesn't really matter. Is there a huge difference in damage though? Body Slam is arguably better than thrash too because of possible paralysis, although the few extra BP and Nido's higher attack makes it closer. I don't really see what nidran M does to get about the two starters that Nidoran F can't do, especially since you're assuming we grind through every trainer. Edited March 2, 2012 by kirsche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Well why not just sit there in a bush training every pokemon up to level 100? If we're gonna waste needless amounts of time we might as well do it right. If you'd rather try to finish the game solo with a L40+ Blastoise due to skipping every trainer, manipulating every critical hit along the way, then be my guest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I'm not saying that we skip every trainer, but grinding to equal levels as our opponents is simply unnecessary and defeats the point of the list, considering how easy it makes the game. Kinda like in fire emblem, we argue to do things quickly, but not to an extent which requires an unbelievable amount of luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 I have crazy amounts of luck, but thats PE. Nidoqueen is solid, and extra bulk helps deal with Misty/Sabrina is needed. also, she gets Crunch. Still, they're both excellent mons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I'm not saying that we skip every trainer, but grinding to equal levels as our opponents is simply unnecessary and defeats the point of the list, considering how easy it makes the game. Kinda like in fire emblem, we argue to do things quickly, but not to an extent which requires an unbelievable amount of luck. Problem is this isn't FE where we're forced into every fight. If we were to argue that we don't fight a multitude of trainers, that opens the possibility that we should skip every trainer we possibly can (not a good idea, I tried it and it ended horribly). But if we're doing neither, how do we pick and choose which trainers we fight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I have crazy amounts of luck, but thats PE. Nidoqueen is solid, and extra bulk helps deal with Misty/Sabrina is needed. also, she gets Crunch. Still, they're both excellent mons. ... Not sure if I should laugh or cry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 ... Not sure if I should laugh or cry Laugh. It's healthy Nidoqueen gets it at the same time Nidoking get Megahorn, I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 Ok, stuff was moved. Now, someone remind me as to how good Drowzee is ingame. It looks nice on paper though Bulk CM Confusion at base for vs Team Rocket. Shock Wave/ theif. It has like 80 base attack as Hypno, I think. Umm, Hypnosis and dream eater combo? I'm not sure about it, but someone enlighten me on its uses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Zapdos should go above Magnemite. If you don't agree then atleast reply because i keep you're just ignoring everything I posted about Zapdos and its superiority. Several others have also posted on Zapdos being better than Magnemite but still no response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Problem is this isn't FE where we're forced into every fight. If we were to argue that we don't fight a multitude of trainers, that opens the possibility that we should skip every trainer we possibly can (not a good idea, I tried it and it ended horribly). But if we're doing neither, how do we pick and choose which trainers we fight? Simple - we fight just enough to make the team reasonably able to beat the E4, and no more, and the more battles you need, the worse you are. Zapdos should go above Magnemite. If you don't agree then atleast reply because i keep you're just ignoring everything I posted about Zapdos and its superiority. Several others have also posted on Zapdos being better than Magnemite but still no response. This. No time for drowzee discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeCrush980 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Zapdos should go above Magnemite. If you don't agree then atleast reply because i keep you're just ignoring everything I posted about Zapdos and its superiority. Several others have also posted on Zapdos being better than Magnemite but still no response. This. Zapdos has a higher level, higher stats, and STAB Drill Peck. Magnemite is part steel and... that's about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 A) Zappy above Magny B) Queen does not learn Crunch, it learns Superpower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 Ok, done and done. Yeah, I roflFAiLed there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 This. Zapdos has a higher level, higher stats, and STAB Drill Peck. Magnemite is part steel and... that's about it. Yeah, they even have the same availability. Magnemite is available earlier in Yellow but not here (it also kinda sucks in generation 1 without that dual steel typing). I think using your Master Ball on Zapdos is a good tradeoff for what it gives you back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 Done Raised it to right below Mankey. And dropped Abra right above Magnemite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titamon Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Is Caterpie really worse than the fossils? Those guys have way worse availability and come at level 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 (edited) A) Notices fossils are in low tier B) Demands them to move atleast under onix because of the bagon factor AWWW YEAH; Vika Edited March 3, 2012 by Sho.M.the.Pinkie.Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 Ok. Will do Anything else folks? Also, Kanga to upper mid, any objections Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Yeah kanga is just like nidoking but comes in later. With STAB mega punch as soon as he joins at koga, he is a much welcome addition to the team, especially considering his impressive base stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 Yeah. I'm considering raising HER. Since we will never find a MALE one. Also, I'm thinking about the good shadow ball users rising. Aside from Snorlax. Since Agatha is kinda bitchy. And Ratata and Meowth come early, and are kinda similar to RSE Zigzagoon stat-wise. Also, what about Drowzeeee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Drowzee should go down. Slow, bad offence due to the second generation's special split, poor coverage(though even if he did get something like Shock Wave, it wouldn't be of much use). Gastly and Pikachu are way better. The good SB users (which is important enough seeing how the Gastly family is no longer afraid of Dig or quake) are Lax, Kanga, Nidos, Flareon and maybe Clefairy. Probably Haunter too, though he shouldn't fighting Psychics unless overlevelled and Psychic will hit the fellow ghosts harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 (edited) . Edited July 5, 2020 by Don Draper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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