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Sword of Seals (FE6) ReDux


Dunal
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How does it work with Guinevere in the party? Shouldn't the game freeze if you bring her to the endgame team? She doesn't have an epilogue text. Or does it simply not show it and moves on?

On that note, maybe add supports for her, she feels out of place and tacked on without them.

Otherwise, great work. I haven't played it yet, but it looks good. I always felt FE6 needed more hacks.

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Did you raise paladin's starting axe rank? Normally it'd be pretty impossible to get any paladin to S rank axe besides Percival.

They start at D, which, while still low -- S can be achieved. It helps that Noah has 1 extra CON over the other cavs to warrant using them (another plus point for Dieck which I forgot, who can reliably use axes over the other heroes). Just to note; all secondary weapons gained on promotion start D rank, with the exception of Staves for male Sages (E) and Staves for female Druids ©.

Also, did you add a bunch of mages in Ilia? I don't remember that many in vanilla.

Yeah, there are more.

Two things I want to note: did you intentionally make enemy archers impossible to dodge?

They do have high hit, granted. Don't rely on dodging them, I guess (unless you're Sue or Thany or something). But they're also easily taken care of due to no 1-range, obviously.

Second, enemy shamans hit really really hard. As in, Lilina the magic tank still gets 2-3 hit ko'd by them and everyone else is 2hko'd. I don't think they were this ridiculous in Vanilla.

They are ridiculous, yes! But that's how dark magic typically should be. They have 4 move to compensate though, of course. Ray and Sophia are the same. I believe that Ray has 24 MT at base. Someone like Lugh needs to wait until 20/8 in order to reach that with an Elfire. And he even loses speed from that.

On the topic of dark magic, Guinevere was primarily added so you have another dark magic user should you need one (You haven't trained Ray or Sophia and Niime is risky to use for obvious reasons). You need all the Divine weapon uses as you can get. She's the Gotoh/Athos-esque unit this game needs. She just conveniently happens to be a sage who has appropriate dialogue for her to join. As for supports, Athos didn't have them either, I guess. And Roy is already capped at 10 options I presume (which would be an obvious pair). It's certainly something I could look into nonetheless.

Edited by DLuna
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New patch is up. I'll refrain from changing the original data in the original post until the hack is absolutely complete. Until then I'll just post changes that have been made.

PATCH NOTES

--------------------

CHARACTERS

--------------------

[ALAN]

- Base speed increased by 1

- Speed growth increased by 5%

[LANCE]

- Base speed increased by 1

- Strength growth increased by 5%

[DIECK]

- Base strength increased by 1

[ZEIS]

- Base defense reduced by 1

[HUGH]

- Base resistance reduced by 2

---------

ITEMS

---------

[JAVELIN]

- Price Increased to 35 per use from 25

[HAND AXE]

- Price Increased to 36 per use from 24

--------

FIXES

--------

[sCOLLAN]

- Now has a higher Axe Rank

Edited by DLuna
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New patch is up. I'll refrain from changing the original data in the original post until the hack is absolutely complete. Until then I'll just post changes that have been made.

--------------------

CHARACTERS

--------------------

[ALAN]

- Base speed increased by 1

- Speed growth increased by 5%

[LANCE]

- Base speed increased by 1

- Strength growth increased by 5%

[DIECK]

- Base strength increased by 1

[ZEIS]

- Base defense reduced by 1

[HUGH]

- Base resistance reduced by 2

---------

ITEMS

---------

[JAVELIN]

- Price Increased to 35 per use from 25

[HAND AXE]

- Price Increased to 36 per use from 24

--------

FIXES

--------

[sCOLLAN]

- Now has a higher Axe Rank

Thank god you upped those. I haven't been enjoying having to abuse to get Alan usable amount of speed. Lance was outclassing him by level 10.

And how soon do you think the completed version will be? I'm enjoying this thus far, but I don't want to have to play it over and over each time you update.

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TBH, the changes will only be minor at best (As in, a pick-up stat booster difference for any unit). You shouldn't need to start again.

Perhaps give your Alan a Speedwing to make up for it? Or reset for 1-2 points of speed w/ level ups? Could just do that, I guess. As long as he's not getting doubled he should be okay. Cavs/Paladin's aren't meant to really double much past mid game or so anyway.

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I've finished this mod. What to say. From Chapter 11, it's pure crazyness, cause enemies becomes very hard and some gimmicks here and there makes the enemy army much stronger and dangerous.

So...

1) Wendy is god - she trivializes.

2) Sophia is god - she trivializes.

3) Lilina is great but very frail.

4) Roy is quite good.

5) Alan and Lance sucks balls.

6) Noah and Treck are great as cavaliers.

7) Bartre is amazing.

8) Lot and Ward are great.

9) Dieck sucks.

10) Oujaji is very good.

11) Pre-promotes now are much better and fill great in stead of suckier Tier-1 units.

12) Dorothy sucks, she is slow as hell.

13) Wolt is great.

14) Enemies are maniac-mode like even in Normal Mode after the first 10 maps.

15) Zephiel and Brenya are way too strong - the hell they have almost all capped stats!

16) Curators are necessary to advance, really.

17) Miledy is shit.

18) Zeiss is average.

19) Bors and Barth are crutch.

20) Cecilia is great as physic both.

21) I liked that some aspect of the maps were made better - no moving Douglas, nearer Hugh.

Edited by marcus90
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:awesome: :awesome: :awesome:

I know you gave both Alan and Lance a speed boost, but marcus is right, they really do suck. >_>

Yeah, honestly, compared to Treck and Noah they're pretty mediocre-- even with their earlygame lead.

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I may look further into the cavs then.

But just looking at averages --

ALAN: LV20/15

HP: 50

STR: 25

SKL: 20

SPD: 22

LUCK: 18

DEF: 16

RES: 10

TRECK: LV20/14

HP: 55 (+5)

STR: 23 (-2)

SKL: 17 (-3)

SPD: 21 (-1)

LUCK: 26 (+8)

DEF: 24 (+8)

RES: 3 (-7)

Well... Again, not much in it. Alan does have Ice affinity options to improve defense.

I'm not sure I'd want to change them further. Looking at comparisons at Noah/Trecks join times and throughout the game, there is still not much in it for units you get from chapter 1. I think it's just the problem that Alan/Lance have lower bases, thus having more room for screwage in the shorter time frame. Noah will always have at least 9 SPD and 10 STR. So the illusion is quite often he's a better pick if Alan/Lance falls short of either stat (which can be the case).

The best thing I could do is tweak for slightly higher bases but lower growths. They may help a bit.

1) Wendy is god - she trivializes.

2) Sophia is god - she trivializes.

Both still come very under-leveled and with 4 move. So high risk in terms of efficiency for high reward, I guess.

Roy is quite good.

Insane promotion bonuses help with that I should think.

Dorothy sucks, she is slow as hell.

Then give her Clarine Support, a killer bow and watch her blow people up.

In all seriousness, she is one of the most dependable units in the game in terms of RNG. She will have crazy high STR. She will have mediocre SPD at worst. She's a great candidate for a speedwing or bodyring if only because of Murgleis, of which she becomes the best Sniper (and otherwise doubles things like Druids). Wolt is great if he gains some STR. But on average it isn't that great and prone to screwage. And he has zero supports that really improve his power. Brave Bow further adds to her strengths.

9) Dieck sucks.

He's a great Axe user and can actually use the blade weapons without much effort (Probably the only one aside from Merlinus), and has double thunder with Clarine. He doesn't perform as well as other units late game, but you have ways to work with him. Early-mid he's a very strong and efficient unit.

15) Zephiel and Brenya are way too strong - the hell they have almost all capped stats!

So does Guinevere. Point is, is that bosses can often be as strong as they like at that point since at the end of the day they are immobile enemies that are fought alone against an army of 20 player-owned units.

17) Miledy is shit.

On normal mode, possibly. I think she's fine otherwise. 17 STR, 16 DEF, 12 SPD at base is still fairly strong for her class. Took a hit to her speed growth in exchange for defense. Tradeoff makes her stronger against other flying units who she wasn't doubling regardless. Great in Ilia. Zeiss is much the same way. Higher bases makes him good from the get-go. And his growths are great.

Also, Miledy's Dark affinity makes her an interesting support choice for someone like Lugh -- who's one real weakness is magic.

Edited by DLuna
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I'd like to bring up Percival. Simply put, he's awful.

I understand the need to nerf Percival since he was one of the best people in Vanilla, but he took way too many big hits. -4 speed, -4 str, -3 def and -8 health? That's insane, especially considering the enemies are harder now than from Vanilla. In my game his speed is on par with Treck (everything else is worse besides res), and worse everything besides slightly more def and res for Noah. I don't think his growths will help much either, as lower speed growth means he won't be doublnig much and bleghh def/res growths probably means he's the worst paladin defensively. Maybe bump his bases back up a bit higher, but not as high as vanilla? He comes relatively later, so I'm not sure why you decided to hit him so hard.

To put things in context, Percival isn't able to double any of the cavaliers on his starting chapter except for one, who for some reason has much much worse stats than everyone else.

edit: rofl, the dragon lord that comes over to fight Percival's group in chapter 15 annihilates everyone, even Percival.

edit2: also, giving Garret a halberd is just evil man.

Edited by Davinatorman
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Hmm... When looking stat comparisons and averages myself, Percival still came across rather strong as a prepromote (obviously someone you can pump zero resources into and get for free -- and who's RNG is not at risk).

I wouldn't think he's meant to have stats on par with the other cavs. Yet he still ends with lots of strength and dark affinity. And can support Klein for defense (An A support gives him +3 STR & +3 DEF/RES). As long as he can reach 20 speed he works well late game for a prepromote (top 3 I'd say, with Garret and Igrene being the other two).

I suppose what I can do is shift his bases/growths a bit, I guess. Slightly better from the start but ends up the same. I can also increase the support speed of Klein, and shift his weapon ranks to A/B/C (from A/A/D) to give him more weapon choice.

EDIT: Proposed these:

+2 DEF

+1 SPD

-5% SPD

-5% DEF

A SWD, B LNC, C AXE

Klein now 50/3 (from 30/2)

Edited by DLuna
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No offense, but if you harden the game, you might not want to nerf the late-joiners too much. Makes them rather pointless to have.

Those nerfs you gave percy practically turned him from one of the most desirable pre-promotes to one of the LEAST desirable one.

I say keep him as his usual stats. He'd likely need it anyway.

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I definitely wouldn't revert Percival. His old stats made him as good or better than any of the 20/10 cavs.

Prepromotes come readily with high stats, high weapon ranks, no promotion item cost, RNG proof etc... In a team of 15 units, including a single prepromote allows you to pump more resources in your other 14 units, effectively making them better while adding another for free. Making a prepromote as strong as an unpremoted unit at the same level makes leveling one a bit pointless (Well, not completely, since they'll still be useful as you use them, clearly -- but still use resources that can be used for anyone).

I actually used Percy in my last PT. I chose to use Lance/Noah. But Noah turned out worse than I expected. So I switched him for Percy who is RNG-proof. Reason I did so was because Paladin's are a great class, clearly. I dropped Noah at level ~16 before promotion so I saved using some resources, including a Knight's Crest.

At the same time, he scales okay. Good supports, three Divine weapons to use. Good candidate for a Body-ring for axes (tied with Noah for best Con). You can go for Armads for +8 Def/Res w/ Klein support. Heh...

I'll give him those few changes nonetheless. I just think people are just noticing the actual nerfs rather than the stats, which are still okay.

His stats do seem a bit lower compared to say, Igrene or Garret, but then he's a paladin. 8 move, full WTA... None of the paladins really excel in stats tbh. Same with the Valkyries. Stats tend to be a-parallel with movement or utility.

On a similar note, I'd like to hear your opinions on Yuno and Dayan. They may still need further improvements, but I'm still undecided.

EDIT: Soon I may release an average stat calculator for every unit for some clarity and for those who would find it really useful. I've used it as a basis on changes (placing markers on average stats for key points in the game, against enemies too) so people may argue these things too.

Edited by DLuna
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You keep bringing up that various supports will cover various character's weaknesses. Shouldn't they be competent without having to rely on supports? I don't have a problem with them, and think they're an excellent strategic addition, but forcing us to have various supports just to make units viable is really near-sighted IMO. What about a no-support draft? That would basically trash some units. It just feels to me personally that your giving this too much precedent. Boost Percy's stats ffs please.

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Supports aren't my only reasoning at all. Thing is, in an efficiency run, Percival will still be a good/great unit due to having good utility/stats without requiring any resources or RNG. Better yet, you can use him long-term and he'll be consistently decent. He's a great filler unit and can even be used endgame. Supports cover a unit's weaknesses, sure (doesn't change whether they're viable or not). But when a prepromote has no weaknesses it kind of takes away the point of them ( the fact that supports can take away weaknesses arguably makes prepromotes often too good).

I understand people don't want him to be filler (based on his godmode-ness in the original). But as a prepromote, should he be anything more? Compare his stats to Cecilla, or Douglas for instance. You don't notice that they're on the same wavelength -- since they weren't too good in the original. Is he really any different from them two? To buff him would just make him better than other pre-promotes.

I'll still give him those changes, mind. I won't object to give him slight improvements if necessary (if he happens to be slightly worse-off than the other prepromotes, so be it). But buffing him majorly just so he can be the 'best' prepromote might just be a bit unnecessary. He may lose out to stats over the cavs, and so does Cecilla compared to Clarine etc... But shouldn't that be the cost of using prepromotes? They shouldn't be as good as non-premotes. And in an efficiency run, the gap is very close already (people are likely promoting much later at a lower level). For example, it wouldn't be a stretch that any of your cavs are not actually promoted (or at least 20/1 rather than 16/1 or something) by Percival's join time.

Really, you can level Clarine to 20/3, and be awed by the stat difference to Cecilla still. She beats her in pretty much every stat (Except HP). The case isn't any different to Percival (who happens to join when Marcus/Zealot have long dropped off massively, unless the latter has leveled a big deal). I think that Marcus/Zealot is another big reason really. The idea is that if Percy were as strong as the cavs, you could just use Marcus/Zealot for the early/mid game and then replace them with Percival for zero cost, while having an easier early game and without spending any resources to boot (such as promotion).

Edited by DLuna
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You've got good reasoning and all, and yeah, Percival was definitely too strong in vanilla, but the fact is he just got nerfed too hard. Especially in this patch, where enemies are even more difficult now. The Dragonlord nearby his starting position 2 hit ko's him, while he 4hko's the dragonlord. He can't double most of the cavaliers on his starting map, and he generally 3hko's them. What made Cecilia relevant in vanilla was C staff and aircalibur, and now she has semidecent combat, and generals are pretty useless late game because of the huge maps, so the stats still don't really help Douglas much (I guess he can tank in Sacae).

Definitely do not revert him back to vanilla stats, personally I'd say just give him +2 speed and maybe some str.

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Like I said, I'm not all against giving him a few changes if he's a bit under-par.

So far I've decided to give him +1 speed, +2 defense for now (along with support/weapon changes). May tweak growths too. Allows him to double a good part of chapter 16 in any case. His growth puts him up to ~21 speed late game so that's all well and good. Strength is his forte still. Good growth + Dark affinity. Can't have it all. He even beats Alan there. =P

I'll improve Alan/Lance a bit more too. +1 STR/DEF at base. -5% DEF growth. Late game they lose out on 2 defense due to the growth (or 1 technically), but they're better early game.

As for Yuno/Dayan, Ideally, their 20/20 stats are on par or possibly even better than the non-premotes -- but join a bit underleveled / underpowered (think Sedgar/Wolf). So I'll give them quite a few tweaks. They break the rules of other prepromotes but for good reason. Wouldn't want them to be too weak to avoid using though.

EDIT: Trial maps should be interesting. I'm thinking one should be a gauntlet of all the bosses or something.

By the way, I'll make some tweaks on things like Wyrmslayer (uses) and add some more options for anti-dragons. Devil Axe? I wouldn't think the player should be compelled to use Divine weapons before endgame.

Edited by DLuna
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New patch.

PATCH NOTES

----------------

Characters

----------------

[ALAN]

- Base strength increased by 1

- Base defense increased by 1

- Defense growth decreased by 5%

[LANCE]

- Base strength increased by 1

- Base defense increased by 1

- Defense growth decreased by 5%

[PERCIVAL]

- Base speed increased by 1

- Base defense increased by 2

- HP Growth increased by 15%

- Weapon ranks change to Lances: B and Axes: C

- Klein support now 50/3

[GARRET]

- Strength growth reduced by 10%

[JUNO]

- Defense growth increased by 15%

- HP growth increased by 35%

- Skill growth increased by 30%

- Speed growth increased by 25%

- Luck growth increased by 15%

- Resistance growth increased by 30%

- Lance level now A

- Bases generally decreased slightly

[DAYAN]

- HP growth increased by 15%

- Strength growth increased by 20%

- Defense growth increased by 30%

- Skill growth increased by 20%

- Resistance growth increased by 40%

- Luck growth increased by 55%

- Bow level now A

- Bases generally decreased slightly

[YODEL]

- Now level 16

- Growths changed

-------

Fixes

-------

[CH15]

- Fixed a Cavalier's stats (Now much higher)

Edited by DLuna
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New patch.

PATCH NOTES

----------------

Characters

----------------

[JUNO]

- Defense growth increased by 15%

- HP growth increased by 35%

- Skill growth increased by 30%

- Speed growth increased by 25%

- Luck growth increased by 15%

- Resistance growth increased by 30%

- Lance level now A

- Bases generally decreased slightly

[DAYAN]

- HP growth increased by 15%

- Strength growth increased by 20%

- Defense growth increased by 30%

- Skill growth increased by 20%

- Resistance growth increased by 40%

- Luck growth increased by 55%

- Bow level now A

- Bases generally decreased slightly

You might want to change 'by' to 'to. Otherwise somebody is gonna start screaming about them having growths in excess of 80% all around.

Edited by Randombobman
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You might want to change 'by' to 'to. Otherwise somebody is gonna start screaming about them having growths in excess of 80% all around.

That sarcasm? tongue.gif

Yes, they have actually increased that much.

But it's less than they look because they only each have 11 and 8 level-ups respectfully. A 20% increased growth would only increase that stat by 2 at max level, and Dayan is even less (1.60). And their bases are slightly worse. Yeah they now have extremely high growths. But only a less extreme version of Karel, since they don't get much level-ups either.

It's both a nerf and a buff. They are weaker when they join, but end up a bit better. Lack of levels amplifies the reason to increase growths that much. Don't be fooled by the actual values.

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