Jump to content

FE4 First Generation Tier List


Recommended Posts

You're talking about L30 stats, with both being at L30, which ain't gonna happen. Alec will have a massive level lead over her, and he might even be promoted already, which means he's indeed quite a bit more useful due to better offense, durability AND mobility. Not to mention that his availability is a lot better as well.

28 HP/1 Def somewhere in the middle of chapter 3? No thanks.

Noooo. I am talking about (around) Lv.20 Tiltyu and Lv. 25 Alec. I believe Tiltyu won't need to reach Lv.30 just to defeat Alec.

Sigurd? What does he have to do with this? Since Sigurd is superior to everybody, you're not going to use anybody but Sigurd? Massive lol. And Alex deals 20 damage and thus two-rounds, while Noish is three-rounding with his 16 damage per round.

Onve again, noooooo. But if you tell me to use Alec and Noish along with Sigurd, I probbably decline. I prefer to use Sigurd alone than to bring those two with me.

But Noish has Critical skill, at some cases he could finished off his enemy in one round.

A will to do something has no bearing on the usefulness of a character. I'm willing to use FE9 Bastian, so now he's wtfmassive ownage. Get the point?

Tiltyu sucks at surviving, so lol at her leveling fast.

I was under impression that Bastian sucks royally, that he can't be saved.

But Tiltyu is not. She could be great, IF you decide to use her.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 80
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

You see Tiltyu, you can baby any unit and make them good, whether it's Bastian or Tiltyu. But you see, babying a unit when they don't bring anything vital to the party is absolutely pointless. She joins in a chapter where she is two shotted with nothing standing between her and getting attacked. She joins severely underleveled and gets slaughtered at the arena. It's a difficult and unrewarding task to baby Tiltyu as all she has is Wrath (if it's activated it means almost certain death when facing an army of enemies like FE4 does).

Alec is useful in the Prologue and Chapter 1. He can carry his own weight for the rest of the 1st generation. His awareness skill is useful for recruiting Ayra AND in Chapter 5 when your facing down Thracia's Knight Killer squad. More units to combat them is always helpful (as they won't be able to harm Alec due to Awareness canceling their ability to critical). Oh yeah, Alec can double attack too (which Tiltyu cannot do until promotion). Alec makes a great parent as he gives his children Pursuit and some fairly good stats. He also gives Awareness which is useful in the second generation.

Edited by Arch
Link to comment
Share on other sites

But you see, babying a unit when they don't bring anything vital to the party is absolutely pointless.

Hi. Anyway, I hope you don't mind my two cents here:

Most characters bring nothing to the party, and by most, I am going to be blunt and say Holyn, Beowulf, Noish, and Alec have never done anything worthwhile. I mean this to the very point of even weapons they come with. Alec has one moment of glory getting his carcass whooped around by Aira just barely surviving her attacks amusing he's around level 8-10 so he doesn't kill her either. And if he's some higher level by then, and still doesn't kill her, you've contradicted yourself in Alec's 'great vitality'. The rest do not do anything ever, and I miss out on nothing. This is an example of not bringing anything vital, and while growth for each except maybe Holyn and Beowulf (because I don't use them, I wouldn't know), are mediocre.

Besides, Alec can't kill anything. It's sad, but even Noish can kill, but Alec... he has no other redeeming qualities, and Pursuit hardly qualifies as redeeming. He would be absolutely useless if not for Pursuit, you can forget Awareness.

Although, true, most of your army is probably already much ahead of those who come along in chapter three, but chances are, an experienced player will just not care. If they like the characters, they're going to use them. Tiltyu brings Anger on the table, a possibility of being a mother, and not to mention a mage herself, where in a game most of the enemies are armored soldiers and might I say very useful in chapter five if you want the Tyrfing.

She joins in a chapter where she is two shotted with nothing standing between her and getting attacked.

Along with Thoron and Claude for a reason. The developers want you to feel a grasp at what civilian skills can really do, and put them to the test while making you actually try using them even though they come at a low level. The game was made in 1996. The skill system was brand new.

She joins severely underleveled and gets slaughtered at the arena. It's a difficult and unrewarding task to baby Tiltyu as all she has is Wrath (if it's activated it means almost certain death when facing an army of enemies like FE4 does).

I question why everyone allows mages alone in the middle of a road, where easily attacked from all four sides (or more) when they clearly will not be able to dodge them all (unless their name is Levin) or take them either. She was meant to be usable, not broken. Although she is fun to use in the arena. And why not use the arena? It's there. It just is. Her under-leveled nature makes players decide which path to take, the one that had another mage on hand and has a bit more support, or the one where she might as well not have been playable. If so, I'm sure you're perfectly happy with Linda. Unrewarding is a very bold statement; all players have their own distinct style of playing, it is up to them whether a character is unrewarding or not, and Tiltyu being a mage, with Tordo blood, the possibility of having children and having a favored skill by most is hardly unrewarding. Besides, half of her final stats go into Teeny, if you plan to pair her. Might as well raise her. If for some reason no, then fine. Strategy is not your specific style.

Alec is useful in the Prologue and Chapter 1. He can carry his own weight for the rest of the 1st generation. His awareness skill is useful for recruiting Ayra AND in Chapter 5 when your facing down Thracia's Knight Killer squad.

Alec has always turned out sub-par. Not bad enough where he's under constant near death but not good enough to kill something in one round, and I am talking about L30 Paladin Alec (chapter five). He's only there to support Sylvie in case she's in trouble, if ever. His awareness hardly helps him at all. Aira is all he has going for him, and I can tell that he was still doubled by her anyway. With the Thracian Knights... No comment. Archers, Sylvia, and magic users have a blast taking them down with no problems. I'm not bashing on Alec, I'm really not, but he's not suited to fight Dragon Knights.

More units to combat them is always helpful (as they won't be able to harm Alec due to Awareness canceling their ability to critical). Oh yeah, Alec can double attack too (which Tiltyu cannot do until promotion). Alec makes a great parent as he gives his children Pursuit and some fairly good stats. He also gives Awareness which is useful in the second generation.

I would like to know which enemies exactly have critical. The only child I can really see Awareness put to good use is Faval (who has bad resistance, but hey, who doesn't?) and that's not until the battle with Yurius when he has Anger himself. Alec's fathering abilities are average at best (being rare), mediocre at worst which is most of the time (like his own stats). He's not bad, but he's not that great. Perhaps it would have been better to use someone else to use when talking about Tiltyu, I mean... Alec has movement by default and if it weren't for his Pursuit, he would most likely join the ranks of low tier, Awareness or not.

So in summary:

Awareness is a skill.

Anger is a skill.

Both skills are useful in tight situations.

Alec using his to the most useful advantage in one chapter.

Tiltyu using hers in three.

A Social Knight who has great range movement by default does not gain anything tier wise.

A Thunder Mage with low movement by default is not Tiltyu's problem.

Alec does not give birth to children. This will not count towards how useful he is.

Alec is mediocre. It is rare to find an okay Alec.

Alec cannot kill even the weakest of enemies in one shot at L30; Priests and Balistae.

Tiltyu does give birth to children. This will not effect how useful she is.

Tiltyu is average at very worst, and great at best.

Tiltyu starts killing things the moment she joins.

Admittedly, with Anger, you have to half die, but it's not like you're going to keep her at half HP the entire time she's surrounded by pirates, are you?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Besides, Alec can't kill anything. It's sad, but even Noish can kill, but Alec... he has no other redeeming qualities, and Pursuit hardly qualifies as redeeming. He would be absolutely useless if not for Pursuit, you can forget Awareness.

Noish can kill? When did this happen? Unless you mean the CHANCE that he could kill with his skills, yeah. However those skills never seem to activate too often and Alec has a 100% chance of both his skills activating. Plus, he passes those skills on. Unless you pair Tiltyu with Azel (and that means passing up having Holesty for the first chapter) her children will never double attack either.

And why not use the arena? It's there. It just is.

Because she struggles to use it? Unless you get lucky she'll never be able to get decent level gains out of the arena.

Tiltyu using hers in three.

Unfortunately Tiltyu lacks Vantage, when the enemy phase rolls around and you have enemies attacking Tiltyu will almost always be in the line of fire. There are a lot of javelin users in this game and bow users. And since Tiltyu is so frail it almost spells certain doom to have Wrath activate!

Alec cannot kill even the weakest of enemies in one shot at L30; Priests and Balistae.

Which characters CAN one shot enemies? Sigurd, Levin and perhaps Brigid? He cannot one shot enemies but he can double attack them. I find him not being able to kill even priests hard to believe.

Tiltyu is average at very worst, and great at best.

Tiltyu starts killing things the moment she joins.

Admittedly, with Anger, you have to half die, but it's not like you're going to keep her at half HP the entire time she's surrounded by pirates, are you?

I almost laughed. She is SURROUNDED by Pirates, when Wrath activates it kills one pirate. Then another can attack her and BAM! She's dead! Unless your playing some whacked up FE4, you can't use Reserve in the middle of the enemy's phase.

Alec does not give birth to children. This will not count towards how useful he is.

Alec is mediocre. It is rare to find an okay Alec.

As I said, he can father children. He passes on the oh-so-vital Pursuit skill and with the right lady he can pass on some very good growths. He also passes on Awareness which is good to have around just in case.

The second statement is completely personal experience. Incase you didn't know, Personal Experience Means Nothing.

A Social Knight who has great range movement by default does not gain anything tier wise.

A Thunder Mage with low movement by default is not Tiltyu's problem.

So wait...being able to keep up with the bulk of the party and not being able to doesn't give Alec an advantage? I for one am not going to slow down for one uneccesary fragile mage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally (and this obviously breaks the point of personal experience, but still matters), I agree with Tiltyu being more useful than Alec. I would put it this way (and don't put too much pressure on me as I haven't played the game in a while): Alec will never be more than moderately usefull after chapter 1, he will only be good for finishing enemies with low health, blocking etc. Tiltyu, if you put a little effort into her but not too much, will be moderately usefull from maybe around level 8. Though of course she is slow. If you put more effort in her, however, she's definately a strong unit, able to take small armies by herself.

Pluss, beside the point, I like her because once she managed to wrath Leptor to death when he was barely hurt.

But no playable mage ever outshines Levin. *remembers Levin soloing chapter five with holsety*

But can I address another point by the way? I keep seeing Beo high on tier lists, and I just don't get it. He costs 10 000 gold, comes terrible (never dodges, killed in two attacks by anyone), and apart from Deu I have never struggled as much with training anyone than Beo. At least Deu dodges most the time. I wouldn't mind hearing some reasoning if there are any beo-liker reading this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

She joins in a chapter where she is two shotted with nothing standing between her and getting attacked.

Hence that why Claude was there. Chance of Tiltyu getting attacked was one pirate per turn, there was time to heal her.

You got Reserve right? Use it! Reserve's real use in 1st gen was for healing Tiltyu and Bridget in chapter 3.

Alec is useful in the Prologue and Chapter 1. He can carry his own weight for the rest of the 1st generation.

Alec's STR sucks. Really sucks. He is a knight, yet his STR is just...what? 16? 17? What a joke!

He also get equally low defense. 14? Thank goodness he at least has a decent speed, or else he would be dead already.

So I suppose what you mean with "carry his own weight for the rest of 1st gen" is his ability to only dodge for life, eh?

His awareness skill is useful for recruiting Ayra AND in Chapter 5 when your facing down Thracia's Knight Killer squad. More units to combat them is always helpful (as they won't be able to harm Alec due to Awareness canceling their ability to critical). Oh yeah, Alec can double attack too (which Tiltyu cannot do until promotion).

He hardly can kill even when he double attack with his pursuit skill. Pursuit becomes a waste in the hand of Alec.

I admit he is doing a great job in recruiting Ayra, but that was all.

Why should I use him when I know he wouldn't be able to kill? At least Tiltyu can blasted them dead with her Tron. And don't ever say about her underleveledness. We are in chapter 5 now, I don't believe if she was still in Lv.3.

Alec makes a great parent as he gives his children Pursuit and some fairly good stats. He also gives Awareness which is useful in the second generation.

*chokes*

A great parent!? REALLY? OH MY!! Why I never know this before?

Surprisingly, my Alec!Lynn was actually the worst Lynn I ever have. And don't even you mention Courple. Disgusting.

And what about Fee!? She gets awareness now! Must be awesome!

Fortunately, Fury's children weren’t that much affected with their father. Fee must bargain the bonuses she could receive from a better father, in order to get Alec's awareness, which wasn't worth it. Fee never get trouble with Ballistae or Bow users, so why would you need awareness? Critical is a rare skill to found among the enemies.

Meanwhile, Sety...he suffered so much from crappy stats with Alec as his father, the only thing that saved him was his Lightning tome. End of story.

Pursuit is good, but if it came as one package with Alec's growth...I believe I'll pass. The children deserved much - much better father than him.

Noish can kill? When did this happen?

Believe it or not, Noish's STR is higher than Alec's. While Alec can't kill even with the pursuit, Noish can when he actived his Critical skill.

Yes, the chance might be low, but that indeed happened once or twice out of blue. So Noish do can kill, unlike Alec.

Because she struggles to use it? Unless you get lucky she'll never be able to get decent level gains out of the arena.

Along the way to the Madino castle, I'm sure she will encounter some enemies that might give her some EXP.

For all I know Tiltyu can get at least two levels from all the bandits she killed. Lv.5 Tiltyu wasn't so weak that she can't survive in the arena you know.

Unfortunately Tiltyu lacks Vantage, when the enemy phase rolls around and you have enemies attacking Tiltyu will almost always be in the line of fire. There are a lot of javelin users in this game and bow users. And since Tiltyu is so frail it almost spells certain doom to have Wrath activate!

Are you assuming that she won't able to dodge any attack that the enemy throw on her? Impossible! While her defense might be low, she gets a good speed growth. She can dodge away just like Alec did, infact Tiltyu's speed is better than his.

He cannot one shot enemies but he can double attack them. I find him not being able to kill even priests hard to believe.

As I said, he can father children. He passes on the oh-so-vital Pursuit skill and with the right lady he can pass on some very good growths. He also passes on Awareness which is good to have around just in case.

I have give these statments some replies in the upper part of this post. ^^

The second statement is completely personal experience. Incase you didn't know, Personal Experience Means Nothing.

That was not a personal experience. That was fact.

Alec is indeed a medicore unit that just happened to be there since the begining. And you love the fact that you have all the time in 1st gen to baby him.

While you hate Tiltyu because she just happened to come so late, with low level and unpromoted class. You ignore the fact that if you raise her, she will completely owns your oh-so-precious Alec.

You already spent so many time to baby Alec, I don't see why you couldn't spare a liitle effort to level Tiltyu up. Just give her an Elite ring and send her to the Arena, would be fine. And no, Tiltyu don't die that easily in the Arena.

So wait...being able to keep up with the bulk of the party and not being able to doesn't give Alec an advantage? I for one am not going to slow down for one uneccesary fragile mage.

Once again I ask, what is the purpose to bring along a character that can't kill?

But can I address another point by the way? I keep seeing Beo high on tier lists, and I just don't get it. He costs 10 000 gold, comes terrible (never dodges, killed in two attacks by anyone), and apart from Deu I have never struggled as much with training anyone than Beo. At least Deu dodges most the time. I wouldn't mind hearing some reasoning if there are any beo-liker reading this.

As much as I hate Beowulf (I'm a Finn/Lachesis fangirl), I have to say to admit Beowulf isn't a bad unit. True he oftens has a trouble in dodging, but he is not a character that can be easily killed by two hits, unless you are talking about magic attack. I can't explain much to you since my own Beo isn't great either, just acceptable.

Edited by Tiltyu
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't understand why everyone says Alec is "useful for promoting Ira". Ira approaches even when you've reached the range of the axefighters that are near her, and any character is adept at running away. Unless you kill the surrounding axefighters, Alec is going to die if he ever tries to face Ira.

Tiltyu is a great unit, and she isn't actually that hard to train, believe it or not. Dew is normally rich by the time you get her (don't like Dew's attack? Give him Ethlin's Light Sword, she's not using it anyway), so Tiltyu can eat the Elite Ring, of which Fin has relinquished at that point, and let her kill of armours and whatever else. Chapter 4 has a large group of them within the earlier stages, so she can snipe them across the bridge rather easily. After training her, Tiltyu becomes a sufficient dodger with her high luck and decent speed.

Tiltyu, while she cannot exactly own in the arena, Chapter 4's earlier arena opponents won't one-shot her, meaning she can Wrath the hell out of them. Tiltyu is a good character who yields even better children.

There are better options than Alec, to be honest. Beowulf, for example, can at least fight while he is playable, meaning he isn't a liability if you want to use him as a father, whereas Alec is not even able to kill enemies.

Well, that's my two cents, anyway...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry, but I'm not going to respond to arguments that go like "Alec is mediocre, so many are better than them.". Those units are better than Tiltyu as well, and Tiltyu doesn't have any other niches. She has Wrath, but Wrath requires her to get one-shotted by everything that attacks her, and she sucks at dodging. And yes, she has 5 mov while Alec has 8, and this matters, like it or not.

If you're going to give Tiltyu a bunch of special treatment to get up to par, then I could just give Alec the Hero Lance and the Power Ring + Speed Ring or something, and they would both be awesome. But I'd rather look at them without giving them treatment, to see how they perform on their own. Alec is performing great in Prol/Ch1, okay in Ch2/Ch3, and in Ch4/Ch5, he outperforms Tiltyu.

For stats:

17 Alec

HP: 42.5

Str: 13.5

Skl: 15.0

Spd: 14.5

Def: 11.5

Res: 0.7

Luk: 8.5

Mov: 8

3 Tiltyu

HP: 28.0

Mag: 10.0

Skl: 15.0

Spd: 10.0

Def: 1.0

Res: 9.0

Luk: 9.0

Mov: 5

Sorry, that's the way the game works. When Tiltyu joins, Alec is much better. In order for Tiltyu to catch up, you have to give her more kills or rings or something than Alec, but then you're being biased towards one party, and I could do the same to the other and give Alec more kills.

I made the tier list based on how good a unit is without handholding them. For Tiltyu, that means she's crap, while for Alec, it means that he's average-above average. You'll notice I put Alec somewhere in the middle. Not at the place where Sigurd sits.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry, but I'm not going to respond to arguments that go like "Alec is mediocre, so many are better than them.". Those units are better than Tiltyu as well, and Tiltyu doesn't have any other niches. She has Wrath, but Wrath requires her to get one-shotted by everything that attacks her, and she sucks at dodging. And yes, she has 5 mov while Alec has 8, and this matters, like it or not.

Because Alec can't kill anything or because Tiltyu actually can?

So all of the sudden, because she has bad movement, she gets thrown down the tier list. Okay. I get that, but by no means is she or should be in the lowest tier.

If you're going to give Tiltyu a bunch of special treatment to get up to par, then I could just give Alec the Hero Lance and the Power Ring + Speed Ring or something, and they would both be awesome. But I'd rather look at them without giving them treatment, to see how they perform on their own. Alec is performing great in Prol/Ch1, okay in Ch2/Ch3, and in Ch4/Ch5, he outperforms Tiltyu.

I'm sorry, but exactly when did I say I used any special items on Tiltyu? I don't. She doesn't need them. And even if she gets a little Elite, there's no changing in stat gains or anything, while as you are. She needs no other weapons, no extra rings, nothing. Your stats only proved that Tiltyu was better, and she will kill a massive amount of enemies since she's surrounded by pirates so I'm not giving her special treatment, she just happens to actually kill things because of her location an start. She will level up at least thrice in that whole thing once, given you give even the slightest effort to not murder her.

For stats:

17 Alec

HP: 42.5

Str: 13.5

Skl: 15.0

Spd: 14.5

Def: 11.5

Res: 0.7

Luk: 8.5

Mov: 8

3 Tiltyu

HP: 28.0

Mag: 10.0

Skl: 15.0

Spd: 10.0

Def: 1.0

Res: 9.0

Luk: 9.0

Mov: 5

Sorry, that's the way the game works. When Tiltyu joins, Alec is much better. In order for Tiltyu to catch up, you have to give her more kills or rings or something than Alec, but then you're being biased towards one party, and I could do the same to the other and give Alec more kills.

Not only will I ignore the fact that Tiltyu's stats are on par with Alec's but I will also ignore that Alec is at 17, and Tiltyu at 3. I will try to ignore the massive amount of enemies surrounding her, and wherein the prologue you sacrifice one Social Knight over the other, because Alec doesn't want to share kills, and because Noish does not have Pursuit (because Social Knights have to be balanced) Alec wins.

I made the tier list based on how good a unit is without handholding them. For Tiltyu, that means she's crap, while for Alec, it means that he's average-above average. You'll notice I put Alec somewhere in the middle. Not at the place where Sigurd sits.

Once again, mediocre. I did not say Alec was worthy of being higher nor did I ever say anything close to it. I'm simply reiterating that because of Tiltyu's better-than-average self as a unit deserved to be higher than lower middle tier as well. And once more I will point out, Tiltyu is capable of being by her lonesome granted a healer because of her Anger rather than Alec who needs someone to weaken the enemy first or has to deal with 2-3 turns trying to kill something. Also, Alec has worse avoidance than Tiltyu, so bring along a healer for him too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't understand why everyone says Alec is "useful for promoting Ira". Ira approaches even when you've reached the range of the axefighters that are near her, and any character is adept at running away. Unless you kill the surrounding axefighters, Alec is going to die if he ever tries to face Ira.

Ah, that. Alec is more like a bait to lure out Ayra, so Sigurd can rush up to Genova.

He is the best bait, because he has awareness, which serves as his life insurance against Ayra's Shooting Star.

Sorry, but I'm not going to respond to arguments that go like "Alec is mediocre, so many are better than them.". Those units are better than Tiltyu as well, and Tiltyu doesn't have any other niches. She has Wrath, but Wrath requires her to get one-shotted by everything that attacks her, and she sucks at dodging. And yes, she has 5 mov while Alec has 8, and this matters, like it or not.

Yes, there are some characters, who can beat Tiltyu silly. Too bad Alec doesn't fall to that category.

If her 40% speed growth is suck at dodging, then what about Alec's 30% one? Pretty craptacular, eh?

Ugh...what's the point of having better movement when: He. Can't. Even. Fight?

Ah! I know! To save those poor raided villages right!?

Useless.

If you're going to give Tiltyu a bunch of special treatment to get up to par, then I could just give Alec the Hero Lance and the Power Ring + Speed Ring or something, and they would both be awesome. But I'd rather look at them without giving them treatment, to see how they perform on their own. Alec is performing great in Prol/Ch1, okay in Ch2/Ch3, and in Ch4/Ch5, he outperforms Tiltyu.

Special treatment? Waow!

If you call giving her an elite ring and let her do some fightings in the Arena or on the map, special treatment...

Then how will you call your gifts of Power+Speed/whatever and Hero Lance to Alec? Godsend?

For stats:

17 Alec

HP: 42.5

Str: 13.5

Skl: 15.0

Spd: 14.5

Def: 11.5

Res: 0.7

Luk: 8.5

Mov: 8

3 Tiltyu

HP: 28.0

Mag: 10.0

Skl: 15.0

Spd: 10.0

Def: 1.0

Res: 9.0

Luk: 9.0

Mov: 5

How ironic that Tiltyu already passed half of Lv.17 Alec's stats when she was just Lv.3....

You just proved that with some level ups, Tiltyu will able to surpass Alec.

Sorry, that's the way the game works. When Tiltyu joins, Alec is much better. In order for Tiltyu to catch up, you have to give her more kills or rings or something than Alec, but then you're being biased towards one party, and I could do the same to the other and give Alec more kills.

Sure he is better, with higher level and all that jazz.

Yet it won't take long for Tiltyu to catch up and surpass him, with the help of an elite ring, ONLY.

You got the ring, so why don't you use it? Tiltyu might be the only character who needs that ring by now.

I made the tier list based on how good a unit is without handholding them. For Tiltyu, that means she's crap, while for Alec, it means that he's average-above average. You'll notice I put Alec somewhere in the middle. Not at the place where Sigurd sits.

Alec is average, if not below average.

Noooo. I don't have any problem with where you placed Alec. My problem is on how you placed that--THAT THING above Tiltyu!

Tiltyu deserves a better place than Alec.

Edited by Tiltyu
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So all of the sudden, because she has bad movement, she gets thrown down the tier list. Okay. I get that, but by no means is she or should be in the lowest tier.

If you have low movement, you have a huge strike against you.

If you have high movement, you have something huge going for you.

It means you get to keep up with Sigurd and Lachesis for +20 Hit/Avo, it means you can always be in the thick of the action, it means you can use roads a lot better, save villages earlier, etc etc.

It is not the _only factor_ (everything I say in Alec's favor suddendly gets strawmann'd like that), but it is huge. Movement is important.

I'm sorry, but exactly when did I say I used any special items on Tiltyu? I don't. She doesn't need them. And even if she gets a little Elite, there's no changing in stat gains or anything, while as you are. She needs no other weapons, no extra rings, nothing. Your stats only proved that Tiltyu was better, and she will kill a massive amount of enemies since she's surrounded by pirates so I'm not giving her special treatment, she just happens to actually kill things because of her location an start. She will level up at least thrice in that whole thing once, given you give even the slightest effort to not murder her.

Sorry, but if she's not getting any special items, she'll just suck. I will get into detail on her suck if you wish.

Not only will I ignore the fact that Tiltyu's stats are on par with Alec's but I will also ignore that Alec is at 17, and Tiltyu at 3. I will try to ignore the massive amount of enemies surrounding her, and wherein the prologue you sacrifice one Social Knight over the other, because Alec doesn't want to share kills, and because Noish does not have Pursuit (because Social Knights have to be balanced) Alec wins.

On par? Sorry, no. To actually produce their battle stats:

17 Alec

Steel Sword: 23.5 Atk, 11.5 AS, 110 hit -- 31.5 avo, 42.5 hp, 11.5 def, 0.7 res

3 Tiltyu

Tron: 30 atk, 3 AS, 100 hit -- 12 avo, 28 hp, 1 def, 9 res

Tiltyu does more damage per hit. That's it. Even ignoring Alec's huge Avo lead, let's see how awesome Tiltyu is against these pirates.

Say, one with a Steel Axe. Those have 27 Atk. Woops, after one hit, Tiltyu has 2 HP left, and two hits of anything, and she dies.

Alec takes 16 damage, generously rounding down his 11.5 def, and he survives two hits with ease.

Taking his avo lead of nearly 40 into account (20% WTA), and who is performing better again?

For offense, Alec does 2x14.5=29 damage. Hey look, they have 1 Res, so Tiltyu does 29 damage too.

"but Alec is L17 and Tiltyu L3"

Again, sorry, that's the way the world works. Tiltyu joins after Alec has had _four huge gigantic maps_ in which he can perform decently. Tiltyu just joined.

Sure, Tiltyu's level will raise faster than Alec (though since she can only kill once per turn due to awful durability, not as much faster as you think). BUT Alec will promote within three levels, increasing the gap between them again.

"and wherein the prologue you sacrifice one Social Knight over the other, because Alec doesn't want to share kills, and because Noish does not have Pursuit (because Social Knights have to be balanced) Alec wins."

I don't even get your point. If you're saying I'm favoring Alec being L17 or something after this much maps, no, that's not the case. He gets this far simply by fighting as much as anyone else. And you are not forced to pick one of the Cavs. You can use neither, both, one of them, whichever you want. There's no limit per class. This is Alec being argued versus Tiltyu, not Alec vs everyone and their mom, or every other cav. Alec's use is a completely seperate subject from Noish's use.

Once again, mediocre. I did not say Alec was worthy of being higher nor did I ever say anything close to it. I'm simply reiterating that because of Tiltyu's better-than-average self as a unit deserved to be higher than lower middle tier as well. And once more I will point out, Tiltyu is capable of being by her lonesome granted a healer because of her Anger rather than Alec who needs someone to weaken the enemy first or has to deal with 2-3 turns trying to kill something. Also, Alec has worse avoidance than Tiltyu, so bring along a healer for him too.

Until you're going to disprove my numbers instead of making vague remarks about my comparisons without offering one of your own (and for god's sake don't pretend they're going to be at an even level), there's no use in saying this. Using my numbers from above, you'll notice Alec has a massive Avo lead, and he can gain more due to the broken 20% weapon triangle in FE4. Tiltyu, in fact, has the lowest Avo out of everyone for a long, long time. Except for Ardan.

If her 40% speed growth is suck at dodging, then what about Alec's 30% one? Pretty craptacular, eh?

Speed growths don't help you dodge. Speed stats do. More specifically, your AS. Alec's AS > Tiltyu's AS.

Edited by Mekkah
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah, that. Alec is more like a bait to lure out Ayra, so Sigurd can rush up to Genova.

He is the best bait, because he has awareness, which serves as his life insurance against Ayra's Shooting Star.

Yes, there are some characters, who can beat Tiltyu silly. Too bad Alec doesn't fall to that category.

If her 40% speed growth is suck at dodging, then what about Alec's 30% one? Pretty craptacular, eh?

Ugh...what's the point of having better movement when: He. Can't. Even. Fight?

Alec cannot fight well. Tiltyu fights worse. And he will be way faster than Tiltyu by the time she joins. Do you seriously not see how this works? They are never at an equal level.

I'm actually of the opinion that Nihil doesn't help Alec much at all since his combat is so lame anyway. But similarly, Tiltyu's wrath isn't that great because she always dies in two hits, and she almost always gets hit thanks to her underleveledness.

Alec is average, if not below average.

Noooo. I don't have any problem with where you placed Alec. My problem is on how you placed that--THAT THING above Tiltyu!

Tiltyu deserves a better place than Alec.

Alec is strictly average, and I can even believe he's below average, but when determining the usefullness of a character we take more than max level stats into account. Tiltyu has a horrible jointime and bad base stats. Alec is below average. Tiltyu is way below average.

Her only advantages over Alec are her skills and the fact that she uses magic. In the end though, Alec has been there for so long that all he needs is a modest level lead (and his level lead will be much more than modest by this point in the game) to be better than Tiltyu.

I'd argue her above Ardan, Dew and Diadora, but that's it. Maybe Noishe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I honestly don't know why this is a comparison between Alec and Tiltyu. Here's the (rounded) numbers you already have with a more realistic Tiltyu to be able to compare with:

L17 Alec

HP: 42.5

Str: 13.5

Mag: 0.7

Skl: 15.0

Spd: 14.5

Def: 11.5

Res: 0.7

Luk: 8.5

L6 Tiltyu

HP: 29.8

Str: 0.3

Mag: 10.6

Skl: 16.8

Spd: 11.2

Def: 1.3

Res: 9.3

Luk: 10.5

L17 Alec

Steel Sword

Mg 24 - Acc 110 - AS 12 - Av 39

Iron Lance

Mg26 - Acc 110 - AS 3 - Av 39

L6 Tiltyu

Thoron

Mg 31 - Acc 104 - AS 4 - Av 33

Elthunder

Mg 25 - Acc 114 - AS 4 - Av 33

L20 Alec (Unpromoted)

HP: 44.6

Str: 14.4

Mag: 0.9

Skl: 16.2

Spd: 15.4

Def: 12.4

Res: 0.9

Luk: 9.4

L10 Tiltyu

HP: 32.2

Str: 0.7

Mag: 11.4

Skl: 19.2

Spd: 12.8

Def: 1.7

Res: 9.7

Luk: 12.5

L20 Alec

Steel Sword

Mg 25 - Acc 112 - AS 12 - Av 39

Iron Lance

Mg 27 - Acc 112 - AS 3 - Av 39

Tiltyu

Thoron

Mg 31 - Acc 108 - AS 6 - Av 39

Elthunder

Mg 25 - Acc 118 - AS 6 - Av 39

L20 Alec (Promoted)

HP: 44.6

Str: 16.4

Mag: 5.9

Skl: 19.2

Spd: 18.4

Def: 15.4

Res: 5.9

Luk: 9.4

L10 Tiltyu (Again)

HP: 32.2

Str: 0.7

Mag: 11.4

Skl: 19.2

Spd: 12.8

Def: 1.7

Res: 9.7

Luk: 12.5

L20 Alec (Promoted)

Steel Sword

Mg 26 - Acc 118 - AS 15 - Av 45

Iron Lance

Mg 28 - Acc 118 - AS 6 - Av 45

Steel Lance

Mg 32 - Acc 118 - AS 6 - Av 45

Tiltyu (Again)

Thoron

Mg 31 - Acc 108 - AS 6 - Av 39

Elthunder

Mg 25 - Acc 118 - AS 6 - Av 39

Alec really is that bad if this is how he compares to a low level Tiltyu. Alec needs to be in a lower tier considering.

So Tiltyu doesn't have that 'great' amazing AS, but she doesn't have Pursuit anyway (A lot of enemies don't have pursuit), she gets Continue after promotion, though not as reliable as Pursuit, still useful.

At the very least, Tiltyu does not deserve to be low tier (or even lumped with Adan).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alec really is that bad if this is how he compares to a low level Tiltyu. Alec needs to be in a lower tier considering.

So Tiltyu doesn't have that 'great' amazing AS, but she doesn't have Pursuit anyway (A lot of enemies don't have pursuit), she gets Continue after promotion, though not as reliable as Pursuit, still useful.

At the very least, Tiltyu does not deserve to be low tier (or even lumped with Adan).

By your own numbers Alec is winning in every category that matters... How does that make him worse than Tiltyu again?

More move, a million times more defense, more HP, and he's stronger and faster as well. AND he actually double attacks things.

In light of this, Alec must win.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is based on a ranked run, but minus the EXP rank, because FE4 EXP rank is less "don't overuse your main team" but more "everyone must hit L30 including really bad units you have no reason to use whatsoever".

Even if Tiltyu were "on par" with Alec at a lower level, all it does is give her bragging rights, but nothing more. In practical sense, all it means is that she increases her level faster, but she's also got longer to go until promotion, and she doesn't grow that much faster due to Alec's huger amount of money (meaning he can buy the Elite Ring without having to beg horrible Dew for a donation), as well as his ability to draw first blood with your other mounted units, and do combat more often on account of being more durable (Tiltyu can barely fight on enemy phase without dying, and sometimes might even have to retreat on player phase).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Noish is pretty damn low as it is. Can't see myself lowering Alec either. Below him are Midir (who is a lot like Alec, but -taking counters, +no enemy phase action, +enemy magnet, +charge, -nihil), Beowulf (who is like an underleveled Alec with somewhat better end results, again Charge over Nihil, but no lances), and 5-mov-lame-availiability-no-skillz Claude. If anything I'd push Aideen up, but that's it.

Ardan in his own tier...yeah...maybe...he does fetch the Pursuit Ring though.

Edited by Mekkah
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Noish is pretty damn low as it is. Can't see myself lowering Alec either. Below him are Midir (who is a lot like Alec, but -taking counters, +no enemy phase action, +enemy magnet, +charge, -nihil), Beowulf (who is like an underleveled Alec with somewhat better end results, again Charge over Nihil, but no lances), and 5-mov-lame-availiability-no-skillz Claude. If anything I'd push Aideen up, but that's it.

Ardan in his own tier...yeah...maybe...he does fetch the Pursuit Ring though.

Doesn't he need a lover to get the pursuit ring though? Who wants Arden as their father again?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Doesn't he need a lover to get the pursuit ring though? Who wants Arden as their father again?

No, it's exactly the opposite. Ardan will find the Pursuit Ring as long as he doesn't have a lover -_-

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Doesn't he need a lover to get the pursuit ring though? Who wants Arden as their father again?

No one "wants" him as their father, but Aideen is not a bad choice for him, because once he promotes, he can use Bows. Actually, he can use Lances and Swords, as well. And no, he doesn't need a lover to get the ring (you might be thinking of the Ch. 5 event)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Training Ardan's 5 mov up to insane levels only to pass down lame bows to Lester (Ardan can't use Silver, and the Hero Bow doesn't exist in this pairing) seems more like a con than a pro to me...

The only units who should be paired with Ardan are those whose kids want Ambush when Lex is taken. Leen or Patty might want to use the Ambush + Sleep Sword gimmick to train in the arena, or even Tiltyu's Wrathing kids.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Training Ardan's 5 mov up to insane levels only to pass down lame bows to Lester (Ardan can't use Silver, and the Hero Bow doesn't exist in this pairing) seems more like a con than a pro to me...

Lame bow, the Killer Bow ? That's all Lester needs in that pairing, along with a Skill Ring (and maybe the Pursuit Ring, if you can afford that), to be useable from the start.

That being said, I agree training Adan is a pain, even in non-ranked runs. And while I agree Adan should not be paired in ranked runs, as far as non-ranked runs go, IMO it's one of the most viable pairings for Edin, as the bow-inheritance is valuable to make the most of Lester, and you won't use Rana for fighting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...