a bit of information on the AI that you may not have known before

[dondon151]

[17:35] dondon okay this is literally the weirdest example of AI

[17:36] dondon fighter has a choice between iron sword tate and steel sword echidna

[17:36] dondon tate has 34/10 and echidna has 35/8

[17:36] dondon picks tate

[17:36] dondon i now give echidna an armorslayer

[17:36] dondon picks echidna

[17:40] Mekkah he has 34 hit/10 dmg on tate?

[17:42] dondon that's HP/def for the character in question

[17:42] dondon so here's something interesting indeed

[17:42] dondon when echidna has the 2 use armorslayer

[17:42] dondon the fighter attacks her

[17:42] dondon when she has the 16 use armorslayer

[17:42] dondon the fighter doesn't attack her

[17:44] Mekkah oh yeah we already knew that didnt we

[17:44] Mekkah they like to run people out of uses if they can

[17:44] Mekkah they especially like 1-use

[17:44] dondon oh did we know that

[17:44] dondon because i didn't know that

[17:44] Mekkah we discuss it sometimes on sf but it's just osmething you need to encoutner i guess

here's a screenshot that provides context:

in this specific screenshot, tate has an iron sword and echidna has a steel sword or a 16-use armorslayer. if echidna had a 2-use armorslayer, the fighter would go after her instead.

tl;dr version: it seems there's a part of the AI that affects target priority if the target has a weapon that will be broken in a round of combat. i have no idea where this ties into AI behavior in general, but it has an observable effect.

Edited April 18, 2014 by dondon151

[Florete]

Well, I didn't know that. Very interesting indeed.

[Nobody]

That's so weird. I don't see why they'd make the AI that way. Still, that's good to know.

[IceBrand]

So the AI really does want you to rage.

[Xator Nova]

Interesting.

[Xator Nova]

Interesting.

[Loki Laufeyson]

That's so weird. I don't see why they'd make the AI that way. Still, that's good to know.

Ugh i cant answer this with the right fucking words, but it has to do with the same reason they go after healers and unarmed guys first. The whole "Pick the weaker target" only its registering the weapon uses.

Anyway, thats pretty wiggy.

[Colonel M]

Mekkah and I were discussing a little about AI the other day (part of the discussion is in the Chapter 21 dual commentary). Never really knew about this but kind of makes sense too.

[ViewtifulBo]

I see... nice little tidbit of info thanks so much!

[dondon151]

actually, one thing i wanted to point out in chapter 21 from your dual commentary - i traded flux away from niime because the wyverns prefer to attack her if she's unarmed, and she had a good bit of avo from the forest. had she retained flux, a couple of the wyverns would have gone after tate instead, who in that iteration was a fair bit more durable than niime: 34 HP, 11 def vs. 32 HP, 5 (+1) def.

so it's really kind of a mystery. the AI has to prioritize damage in some way, but in that case, it obviously cares more about being countered.

EDIT: if tate has a slim lance equipped instead of an iron sword, the fighter still prefers targeting 2-use armorslayer echidna.

Edited April 18, 2014 by dondon151

[Mekkah]

Hitting people with low or no weapon uses is a really really big deal for the AI. I think I've seen them target people with 1 weapon use left over people who would get OHKO'd.

[Xtremekiwi]

I've heard about this AI quirk before. The question is: Does the AI prioritize breaking weapons or potential killing blows?

[Toothache]

I think the way to test this is to have both a low HP unit in range, and one with high HP but a low use weapon, and see which grabs their attention more.

[Jedi]

Very interesting. Despite all the times playing fe6 I never realized.

[Tamanoir]

Interresting.

I need to remember to have more nearly used weapons with me.

Does it also works with 3 uses, only 2 and 1 ?

[Vykan_12]

When I was working on a Tales of Phantasia TAS, a guy named Amaurea actually dissambled the rom in order to determine the exact formulas the game uses for things like damage, RNG, etc. I wonder if the same thing could be done to determine AI targetting priority.

[sirmola]

When I was working on a Tales of Phantasia TAS, a guy named Amaurea actually dissambled the rom in order to determine the exact formulas the game uses for things like damage, RNG, etc. I wonder if the same thing could be done to determine AI targetting priority.

Nobody did anything like that when you were helping with Toothache's TAS of this game(http://tasvideos.org/3814S.html )? i would have expected it.

Edited April 23, 2014 by sirmola

[Toothache]

To be fair, I don't know anything about assembly language or how to disassemble games, at least not yet. There are bits of understanding about the AI and other things that are starting to come to light through observation, because they are often subtle they haven't been noticed right away, but observation can only go so far, now it will help for us to get into the guts of the game and really examine what is going on there.

[Belf]

AI priority is an algorithm, not a formula. Therefore, even if you try to follow the ASM operations, it's too complex to figure out. It's much easier and faster to just experiment with the game itself.