Byte2222 Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 The problem with names like Shaman and Druid is that they imply the art they practice is occult and mysterious (particularly Shaman) whereas Mages explain several times that magic in FE is an established and well understood art: Canas and Pelleas are scholarly bookworms not spiritual mediums or priests. Also, class names are for the player as a way of identifying and characterising the class and all the people who occupy it, so what the names Shaman and Druid imply to us is different to what the characters tell us. I've though for a while that Warlock and Sorcerer fit and describe dark magic users better because the connotations we take from them agrees with what we know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Awesomest Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Why is everyone saying "Dark magic is back"? Dark magic never left... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Why is everyone saying "Dark magic is back"? Dark magic never left... It was in neither remake or PoR, and had a very small showing (both from a recruitable and enemy perspective) in FERD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 It was in neither remake or PoR, and had a very small showing (both from a recruitable and enemy perspective) in FERD. It was in FE11/12, just not as a separate magic type, exactly like the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 ...Which means it wasn't in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arvilino Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I would have said the Imhullu Tome is technically the Dark Magic of FE11 and FE12. With Starlight being Light Magic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Except that their ranks are Tome A and Tome C, rather than Dark anything or Light anything so they don't count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Except that their ranks are Tome A and Tome C, rather than Dark anything or Light anything so they don't count. In other words, they weren't separate magic types, but rather all magic rolled up into one type, just like in the original games. "Dark" spells were still present, just like how "Fire" spells were still present when FE6 condensed the elemental magic. The difference here is, because FE11 and FE12 are remakes and using the classifications of FE1 and FE3, it's obvious that it was never intended to be a lasting change, but rather a temporary reversion to the old system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 They're not seperate weapons types so they don't REALLY exist in those games, much like how Hammers are not a distinct weapon type in any of the game where the Hammer appears. And Fire (along with Thunder and Wind) doesn't exist in FE6 (and 7/8) because it (and the other two) were replaced by "Anima", "Fire" as a weapon type only exists in the Jugdral and Tellius games. And being a temporary change is irrelevant to this argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) Yeah, you can argue that Fire, Thunder, and Wind don't exist in the GBA games... but how are you actually going to accept that, knowing quite well that despite being lumped into Anima, they're still made to be distinct? FE11/12 still have a few exclusively Dark magics, including Worm. They're obviously meant to be for Dark magic users. Just because the system castrates individual recognition doesn't mean there's no individuality in weapon types. Meshing all three weapon types into a single 'Weapon' category won't suddenly make the differences between the three non-existent. It's not called whatever-Magic, but it still is. Edited December 30, 2011 by Celice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 No, it's not, it's that simple. GBA!Fire and GBA!Thunder are only weapon types in the same way Iron and Steel are weapon types. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 We didn't say they are weapon types. We said Fire magic and Thunder magic exist, just as Iron weapons and Steel weapons exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 If it's not a seperate weapon type, then it doesn't really exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 If it's not a seperate weapon type, then it doesn't really exist. Are you saying Iron and Steel weapons don't exist now? There are about eight weapons per FE game that beg to differ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 They don't count, we don't have "Iron Fighters" and "Steel Knights" and stuff, so it doesn't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Don't count for what? I don't remember any "Thunder fighters", either. Iron and Steel weapons exist. Agree? It's a simple yes or no answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Thunder Mages! Tiltyu and FE10!Ilyana! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Okay, so FE4 and FE10 have such classes. FE5 and FE9 do not. Sounds like it doesn't make much of a difference. And you're still not answering my question. The way Thunder magic existed in those games was not in the way Swords exist in every game; there is no dispute as to that. All I am saying is that there are other forms in which a group of equipment can exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 "Groups of equipment" =/= "Actual weapon types" and I'm only talking about the latter. And it still has a rank of its own in FE5 and FE10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) "Groups of equipment" =/= "Actual weapon types" and I'm only talking about the latter. And it still has a rank of its own in FE5 and FE10. Problem is, the rest of us are not only talking about the weapon types as explicitly defined by the game, and yet you persistently ignore that fact. All I and others are trying to say is that dark/thunder/whatever magic exists in some form as some group of equipment, not necessarily a group explicitly defined by the game as a weapon type. Of course Thunder magic has a rank of its own in FE5/9; that's exactly my point: Classes being named after the group of equipment isn't actually relevant. Just as there is no need for Iron/Steel Fighters or an Iron/Steel weapon rank for Iron/Steel to exist as clear groups of equipment, there is no need for Dark/Thunder Mages or a Dark/Thunder rank for Dark/Thunder to exist as clear groups of equipment Edited December 31, 2011 by Othin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 But "groups of equipment" are completely irrelevant, is Dark Magic isn't its own weapon type then it doesn't exist period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewjeo Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 No, that's not true. Do steel weapons not exist period just because there isn't a steel weapon type? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 That doesn't matter and is not relevant to the discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) if Dark Magic isn't its own weapon type then it doesn't exist period. Is somehow not the same as if Steel Sword isn't its own weapon type then it doesn't exist period. I'd really like to see how you come to these differing opinions about the same qualitative issue. What weapon types exist in the original FE1, according to you, then? That might shine some light on how you get to these views. Edited December 31, 2011 by Celice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Because Dark Magic is an actual category, so it exists when it has its own rank and stuff. On the other hand Steels are not an actual category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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