Character Balancing & Individualizing

[Deliriyum]

It is a known fact that this game gives you a huge cast, but you really only need about half of them throughout the game. I think IS should have made some characters have more specialized stats and growths. Also, I think that innate abilities should not be able to be taken off like in PoR, but abilities you get and put on someone can be taken off because that makes a unit special. Also, more even playtime so it would be conceivable to raise DB units as well as GM units for endgame. Another thing is higher caps all around. especially in the 2nd tier. These often hurt the growth of characters very much, ones that come to mind are Aran, Gatrie, and Soren. What do you think IS should have done with the cast?

[NinjaMonkey]

Also, I think that innate abilities should not be able to be taken off like in PoR,

I dunno, Astrid and Geoffrey's innate Paragon skill should be able to be removed, as should Nolan's and Callil's innate Nihil.

[Fayt Zelpher]

Here's an older topic on the subject. I don't know if it's complete or comprehensive, but it has some good places to start.

Here is one I made a few days back on mastery balancing. That might be useful as well.

Edited January 12, 2010 by Randomly Predictable

[Deliriyum]

Also, I think that innate abilities should not be able to be taken off like in PoR,

I dunno, Astrid and Geoffrey's innate Paragon skill should be able to be removed, as should Nolan's and Callil's innate Nihil.

Yeah, it gets really iffy with some of them, however, Astrid and Geoffrey had them in PoR didn't they? Maybe take those skills off before we get them so they are not stuck on them.

[Narga_Rocks]

Also, I think that innate abilities should not be able to be taken off like in PoR,

I dunno, Astrid and Geoffrey's innate Paragon skill should be able to be removed, as should Nolan's and Callil's innate Nihil.

And Soren's Adept, and Leo's Cancel, and Haar's Cancel. A bunch of units have skills that don't work for them at all. Even Zihark's Adept is dangerous in 3-6. Cain's fortune. I can't actually think of very many skills that aren't going to waste as Innate Skills.

Also, more even playtime so it would be conceivable to raise DB units as well as GM units for endgame. Another thing is higher caps all around. especially in the 2nd tier. These often hurt the growth of characters very much, ones that come to mind are Aran, Gatrie, and Soren.

3-3 crown solves Gatrie's issues. What's wrong with Aran's caps? In NM it allows some bexp to fix his problem stats, and in HM 25 def + 2 from affinity may not be great against 3-13 tigers (still takes 14 damage from 41mt tigers, but compare that to the rest of the crew) but it's still pretty good. Forges mean he shouldn't face any hit issues so his skill cap isn't a problem, and that 26 str cap is pretty high when you consider the tier 2 str caps of non-Haar units. And just look at Haar then look at Aran and tell me you don't think Haar's tier 2 str cap shouldn't be 3 higher.

Soren is kinda screwed by his 23 AS cap, except when you consider just how long it'll take him to hit 23 AS in HM even with bexp (at least, with reasonable amounts of bexp, rather than >70% of your earned bexp).

[NinjaMonkey]

Also, I think that innate abilities should not be able to be taken off like in PoR,

I dunno, Astrid and Geoffrey's innate Paragon skill should be able to be removed, as should Nolan's and Callil's innate Nihil.

Yeah, it gets really iffy with some of them, however, Astrid and Geoffrey had them in PoR didn't they? Maybe take those skills off before we get them so they are not stuck on them.

Innate Skills are locked in Part 2, so you couldn't take them off even if you wanted to.

As for Soren's Adept, I kinda leave it on him...

[Deliriyum]

Also, I think that innate abilities should not be able to be taken off like in PoR,

I dunno, Astrid and Geoffrey's innate Paragon skill should be able to be removed, as should Nolan's and Callil's innate Nihil.

Yeah, it gets really iffy with some of them, however, Astrid and Geoffrey had them in PoR didn't they? Maybe take those skills off before we get them so they are not stuck on them.

Innate Skills are locked in Part 2, so you couldn't take them off even if you wanted to.

As for Soren's Adept, I kinda leave it on him...

Considering that I do EM for most of my PTs because of my slight OCD, I leave it on Soren most of the time too. Any other mode makes it harder for me to achieve everything I want, and makes me mad.

[Defeatist Elitist]

I like having removable skills, and I really think that them not taking capacity should be enough "uniqueness". Perhaps it is because I as the player enjoy being given the power though.

[Junkhead]

I think IS should have made some characters have more specialized stats and growths.

Exactly. Like many characters here have unescesary growths for some stats, like for example...

Micaiah could easily have great growths with her growthspread, instead they made her have exagerated growths on Magic, Luck and Resistance when they could have made them a little lower for an exchange of HP, Str, Spd & some little more Def:

HP: 50

Str: 25

Mag: 70

Skill: 40

Spd: 50

Luck: 70

Res: 70

Def: 25

As like Leonardo could actually trade his Resistance growth for his Spd growth.

[BrightBow]

I think Micaiah should get one or two authority stars. It would make part 1 which is too hard a bit easier and would make part 3 which is a cakewalk a little bit harder. Not to mention that she just looks silly as a leader when everyone else and their sister (Lucia) has some of them. And after Part 1 Daein's people are close to being fanatics over her, but they aren't fighting better when she is nearby?

Also I think her hp growth should be over 50%. She has to be the only Lord outside of Gaiden with an unreliable hp-growth. A Lord should be able to take at last 1 single hit without dying.

Otherwise I think her growths are fine. Nothing bad about a Glass cannon. But it hurts her that magic generally sucks in this game unlike enemy res. I guess tomes should generally get buffed.

Also allow her class "Light Priestress", to use SS Light magic right away. Since she won't do much fighting in 4E she has trouble to get to SS in time befor the end. Not that it helps her much but it's just weird in terms of design, I mean look:

-She has trouble reaching level 20 before promotion despite being promoted very late. No other Lord is like that. And just to tease you about how pathetic the Dawn Brigade is Ike spends most of Part 3 on Level 20 even if just for the reason so he can survive an encounter with the Black Knight.

-She has no personally legendary weapon which puts her in a very exclusive club with Cellica and Leaf the latter which was at last is a likely option for the Blagi Sword so he might not even count.

-She has trouble reaching her weapon caps which is quite nice in combination with the "no personal legendary weapon part" since it means she has trouble being even able to wield regular SS weapons.

Just to tease you she is also the only realistic option to wield either the Rex Aura or the Matrona since Laura's weapon level is even worse, if you actually bothered to abuse her to promotion, Rhys is just bad and Oliver, is Oliver, but it's such a pain to get her weapon level that high. Raising Light Magic goes somewhat but getting her A-Rank staff to SS in just a few short chapters just so she can use a staff which does hardly anything what a Purgativ can't, except the latter one has way more uses? Why bother?

Having all of these tings fixed wouldn't have changed much of her performance but it's just really wired design: Which other Lord ever needed to worry about them. They have enough time to get to level 20. Quite often they promote late but tend to get a kickass weapon right afterwards. Not to mention they do get a kickass weapon regardless of late promotion or not.

Also I think Sothe should get a personal legendary weapon from Yune. After all he is forced in 4E and he is already in a class with bad caps. (and to make things worse he has bad growths in his class best stat, which is speed and awesome growths in it's worst which would be strength) And his best weapon is a Dagger which you don't find without a guide and to make things worse he even have to compete with Volke about it. Best forced unit since Sophia.

Oh and I think I would fix Fiona by making her a prepromote. After all her unit represents the entire military might of Marado and has to be a ruler for quite some time now, given her fathers demise who just happens to be also a great hero. I think that would justify pre-promote status story wise, and gameplay wise the advantages should be obvious.

Also, as said in the first post Daein needs more playtime. Look at mission 1-2 and 1-3. There seems to be the highest difficulty spike in the entire game. Also Micaiah getting captured comes also out of nowhere and the next time you get control, she is already free. (I have to agree with Gamespot on that, that was just weird.) The Dawn Brigade could need a additional chapter in order to gain a few levels so how about we not just adding a nice little jailbreak chapter? They actually show you Micaiah's cell when Sothe appears, which makes it look like there exists already a map for it. They could have shown the entire scene in Dialog with the jail background so why did they bother to create a 3D area for that cell just for the like 5 seconds you see it, covered 2/3 by Dialog windows?

You could also play as Daein in 3-7 "Rivas Collide". With there high starting levels the Greil Mercenaries can afford to hand over a chapter or 2. Oh yes, and plz give 3-10 to the Crimean Knights, thx. At last that way I don't have to worry that much about our suicidal Queen Crimea.

About Tormod, it's quite irritating how his low-level Ass just appears out of nowhere right before the Final with his Gang. I just can't think that was intentional. I just can't help but think they were supposed to be playable in a few chapters that were dropped for some reason. They might have escorted the Diplomat of Galiea but then had to flee after he got assassinated. After all they need chapters more then ANYONE else and it was also irritating how the game just dropped you in a war between the Laguz and Begnion just out of the blue. Or they could be playable in a mission to fight alongside the Holy Guard under Sigrun in order to free Sanaki. Sanaki just appearing out of nowhere in Part 3 was also kind of irritating by itself. But that is not all why I think something is missing:

According to the extended Dialog it seems like Tormod was actually in Daein sometime after the rebellion in Begnion broke loose. ( http://www.serenesforest.net/fe10/script/3_13b.html "That's what I heard from Tormod. The empire has been thrown into chaos...") The only possible explanation I can think of, why Tormod would have decided to bring the news to Daein instead to the Laguz who are at war with Begnion, is, that he knew Sigrun and Sanaki were already heading in that direction. And how could he know this? Because he was involved in their actions somehow. It would explain why he was never seen in Galiea and why he appeared at the end close to the capital in Begnion. He probably went to Begnion right after he brought the news about Rafiel, trying to contact Sanaki and then got involved with Sigrun.

Whither I'm right or not, they could have just dumped him into the Greil Mercenaries and call it a day. There is no excuse for not just fixing his issues that way.

Speculation aside, lets talk about the cats.

The cat Laguz bases are irritating. It's already brutal to get Lyre and Lethe on the same level as Ranulf, Janaff and Ulki but on even levels they are still way behind them in terms of stats. So why would you bother with Lethe and Lyre in the first place? And Mordecai's def base (16) laughs on Lethe's base speed (12) and she is 5 levels higher as him and already only gets 1 exp per kill. How could they think this was balanced?

Perhabs give Lethe and Lyre either higher bases or a way lower level, so at last they can grow faster. Also allow Laguz to attack while untransformed and make their untransformed stats 0.75 of their original stats, after all they have the reputation to be physically stronger then Beorc and then Lethe puts that reputation to shame by getting doubled by regular soldiers while untransformed, which is more likely for cats to happen then to anyone else thx for their fast-dropping Gauge and have the hardest time to deal with it thx to their shitty bases. They should also have the same exp gain as transformed so they can't abuse their untransformed form for faster exp gain. However getting only 1 exp with a level 21 Laguz who can't take damage and can't reliable dodge is irritating. A level 20 Laguz is not the same as a third tier unit, give them more exp per kill. Also I would allow Laguz the skill "Discipline", Kurth would be grateful.

[NinjaMonkey]

I think Micaiah should get one or two authority stars. It would make part 1 which is too hard a bit easier and would make part 3 which is a cakewalk a little bit harder.

How would giving Micaiah a couple of authority stars make the part 3 DB chapters harder?

[Fayt Zelpher]

I think Micaiah should get one or two authority stars. It would make part 1 which is too hard a bit easier and would make part 3 which is a cakewalk a little bit harder.

How would giving Micaiah a couple of authority stars make the part 3 DB chapters harder?

It would make 3-7 and 3-E harder while making 3-6, 3-12, and 3-13 easier. On balance though, I still think it makes it easier. However, since the DB levels need to be easier and the GM levels need some difficulty, I am willing to go along with this plan. I'm all for giving Micaiah 2 stars at the beginning, and then 2 more once she promotes to Light Sage. (I'm actually surprised that no character got star bonuses after promotion).

[Fayt Zelpher]

I think Micaiah should get one or two authority stars. It would make part 1 which is too hard a bit easier and would make part 3 which is a cakewalk a little bit harder.

How would giving Micaiah a couple of authority stars make the part 3 DB chapters harder?

He said part 3 in general, not part 3 DB. It would make 3-7 and 3-E harder while making 3-6, 3-12, and 3-13 easier. On balance though, I still think it makes it easier. However, since the DB levels need to be easier and the GM levels need some difficulty, I am willing to go along with this plan. I'm all for giving Micaiah 2 stars at the beginning, and then 2 more once she promotes to Light Sage. (I'm actually surprised that no character got star bonuses after promotion).

[NinjaMonkey]

You can edit your post, you know.

I think Micaiah should get one or two authority stars. It would make part 1 which is too hard a bit easier and would make part 3 which is a cakewalk a little bit harder.

How would giving Micaiah a couple of authority stars make the part 3 DB chapters harder?

It would make 3-7 and 3-E harder while making 3-6, 3-12, and 3-13 easier.

How does it make 3-E harder? Micaiah and Sothe leave on turn 5...

[Deliriyum]

I thought of something recently, for weapons. Dark and Thunder should get +5 hit. Thunder should get +5 crit. fire should get -5 hit(maybe). All swords should have 5 crit. Bows are good, crossbows with 2x effective bonus, not 3. Make SS weapons unlimited use.

[NinjaMonkey]

Make SS weapons unlimited use.

Why not just make all of the SS weapons have 50 uses (including the SS tomes)? And then make them have infinite uses after they are blessed.

[Narga_Rocks]

I think Micaiah should get one or two authority stars. It would make part 1 which is too hard a bit easier and would make part 3 which is a cakewalk a little bit harder.

How would giving Micaiah a couple of authority stars make the part 3 DB chapters harder?

It would make 3-7 and 3-E harder while making 3-6, 3-12, and 3-13 easier. On balance though, I still think it makes it easier. However, since the DB levels need to be easier and the GM levels need some difficulty, I am willing to go along with this plan. I'm all for giving Micaiah 2 stars at the beginning, and then 2 more once she promotes to Light Sage. (I'm actually surprised that no character got star bonuses after promotion).

I disagree. I'd like an incentive beyond bexp to save various ally (green) units, rather than getting stars for free.

In 1-6-2, if you save all of Fiona's idiot cavs as well as the civilians, you get 1 star on Micaiah.

In 1-7, if you get all the allys to escape, you get +1 stars.

In 1-8, if you save all the civilians, you get +1 stars.

(She'll have 3 for 1-E if you do well)

Optional:

Nephenee or Brom get a (completely pointless) star if you leave all the volunteers alive in 2-1. (and maybe pick up 4 generics like in FE:SD(DS) if you leave all 4 alive. If you kill at least one of them, the others don't like you and you get none.)

Geoffrey gets an extra star if you leave at least 50 enemy units alive for 2-3. Of course, it only helps in 3-9, but oh well.

Ike starts with 2 stars.

Keep 23 laguz alive in 3-P, get +1 star. (this might be a little mean, though)

Get all horses in 3-3 to escape, get +1 star.

Keep all 5 laguz alive in 3-4, get +1 star. (so 5 stars max, but two of them are awfully annoying)

Geoffrey gets an extra (completely pointless) star if you save all the villages in 3-9.

3-10 could see another star for Ike if you save all the Crimean Soldiers.

I'd suggest Ike starts with 0 or 1 stars but since only the 3-3 star is easy to get it seems like Ike would end up with 1 or 2 stars only for most players if I did that. Micaiah's 3 stars are much easier to get. (Micaiah having more stars than Ike = bad)

I don't care about Partner (yellow) units remaining alive, so no stars for keeping them all alive in maps like 3-6, 3-12, 3-13, or any other time yellow units appear.

How does it make 3-E harder? Micaiah and Sothe leave on turn 5...

Actually, I think they leave the moment the death counter hits...some number. Don't remember which. For some players, Micaiah and Sothe may leave at like turn 2 or 3.

Edited January 13, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Fayt Zelpher]

You can edit your post, you know.

Accidentally hit reply instead of edit. Call it an honest mistake which happens on occasion.

[RNG Princess]

I agree with Geoffrey's/Astrid's paragon being removeable I would give it to Marcia or Kieran Astrid can keep her paragon.

CRK's having more availability would help them out.

[Anouleth]

I want them to fix the whole '34 speed to be good in Endgame' thing. How about instead of giving all the Auras 35AS, their AS can rang from 33 to 36? Same goes for the Spirits ALL having the same stats.