1st-Tier Class Skills

[Roivann]

So on my post game team, I find that I mostly have the skills equipped from the 2nd-tier classes (a lot of Galeforce, the weapon breaker skills, Astra, Lethality, Pavise, Aegis, and the weapon expert skills, to name a few). Recently, though, I've seen people on the forums talking about the usefulness of the tier 1 skills. The only ones I ever use are Armsthrift, Vantage, Healtouch, and Miracle (Those last two are only on Sumia, though). My question is, are there any other 1st-tier skills worth using?

[Czar_Yoshi]

Veteran and DS+ are arguably the best skills in the game. Patience and Discipline come in handy on higher difficulties, and Hex, Anathema, Solidarity and Demoiselle are great support skills (the former two are better lategame, the latter are better earlygame). All of the +2 skills and HP+5 can be used for breaking thresholds. Gamble and Focus can be used for critstacking on Cht.21. Despoil is great for farming. Mov+1 is essential for all staffbots, and Locktouch makes IR farming possible.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[Roivann]

Veteran and DS+ are arguably the best skills in the game. Patience and Discipline come in handy on higher difficulties, and Hex, Anathema, Solidarity and Demoiselle are great support skills (the former two are better lategame, the latter are better earlygame). All of the +2 skills and HP+5 can be used for breaking thresholds. Gamble and Focus can be used for critstacking on Cht.21. Despoil is great for farming. Mov+1 is essential for all staffbots, and Locktouch makes IR farming possible.

Does the +10 hit/avoid from patience and prescience really make a noticeable difference, though? Also, are there any characters that can be a wyvern rider as we'll as a thief? For deliverer, mov+1, and boots combination. As for locktouch, I have it on Vaike, Lon'qu, and Gaius, for IR farming.

[Tables]

For postgame, Dual Strike+ is probably the best skill in the game behind Galeforce and Limit Breaker. Getting to 100% or very close Dual Strike rate is huge. Other useful ones are the ones you mentioned (well kinda, things like Healtouch are mostly only relevant for healers, but then healers will also be running things like MAG+2 for that extra point of HP), and the ones Czar mentioned.

In game, Veteran is the best skill, by far, although part of that is to do with it's early availability. Even outside of that though, 50% extra EXP is a huge bonus, and is the main reason Avatar is so good. And then there are lots of generally useful tier 1 skills in general. Avoid skills tend to be pretty good - Avoid +10, Indoor/Outdoor Fighter, Charm etc. are all pretty valuable. Most of them aren't great, but for the most part they're all useful bonuses, and since you can get them early and also pick up lots of those low level skills through class changing, they have more than just a niche in their use.

Also, postgame team with Lethality, Astra, Pavise and Aegis?

Edit:

Does the +10 hit/avoid from patience and prescience really make a noticeable difference, though? Also, are there any characters that can be a wyvern rider as we'll as a thief? For deliverer, mov+1, and boots combination. As for locktouch, I have it on Vaike, Lon'qu, and Gaius, for IR farming.

Yes, 10 avoid is very noticable. Especially when you combine it with other avoid skills. Donnel gets really good pretty much the moment he has both Patience and Underdog, because 25 avoid against all stronger enemies means he's just not getting hit (and is hitting back).

Wyvern Rider and Thief? Lon'qu and Panne do. I guess you're asking for stacking Lucky Seven and Quick Burn? That's a really killer combination, by the way, and both of those two also have a third (or more) avoid skill to stack too.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Tables

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

of the top of my head Panne, Lon'qu and Avatar can do thief + wyvern. Some of Lon'qu and Avatar's (also female avatar) kids can increase the fun with Galeforce

[Roivann]

Also, postgame team with Lethality, Astra, Pavise and Aegis?

Well, not all on the same unit. My +Lck/-HP Avatar has Armsthrift, rally spectrum, Astra, and lifetaker. Chrom has Aegis, rightful king, all stats +2, and aether. Sully has aegis, Astra, vantage, and lancebreaker. Sorcerer Morgan has Armsthrift, rally spectrum, sol, and aegis. Dread fighter Donny with sol, counter, bowbreaker, and Armsthrift. Kjelle has aegis, Pavise, Armsthrift, and galeforce. Lon'qu has Astra, pass, swordfaire, and acrobat. Vaike has axebreaker, aggressor, sol, and hp+5. Sumia has fili shield, miracle, galeforce, and Healtouch. Cynthia has aether, Pavise, Healtouch, and miracle. And everyone has limit breaker.

[Tables]

I didn't mean on the same unit. Just surprised you were using them at all, given various factors in how postgame (especially Apotheosis) works.

[Roivann]

I didn't mean on the same unit. Just surprised you were using them at all, given various factors in how postgame (especially Apotheosis) works.

Oh. No, I don't use Lethality on Apotheosis. Only Sully and Lon'qu actually even have the skill.

Also, how exactly do the dual (x) + skills actually work? Do they only apply if the unit with the skill is in the back of the pair up, or is either way fine?

Edited January 16, 2014 by Rollertoaster

[Shadow Mir]

For postgame, Dual Strike+ is probably the best skill in the game behind Galeforce and Limit Breaker. Getting to 100% or very close Dual Strike rate is huge. Other useful ones are the ones you mentioned (well kinda, things like Healtouch are mostly only relevant for healers, but then healers will also be running things like MAG+2 for that extra point of HP), and the ones Czar mentioned.

In game, Veteran is the best skill, by far, although part of that is to do with it's early availability. Even outside of that though, 50% extra EXP is a huge bonus, and is the main reason Avatar is so good. And then there are lots of generally useful tier 1 skills in general. Avoid skills tend to be pretty good - Avoid +10, Indoor/Outdoor Fighter, Charm etc. are all pretty valuable. Most of them aren't great, but for the most part they're all useful bonuses, and since you can get them early and also pick up lots of those low level skills through class changing, they have more than just a niche in their use.

Also, postgame team with Lethality, Astra, Pavise and Aegis?

Edit:

Yes, 10 avoid is very noticable. Especially when you combine it with other avoid skills. Donnel gets really good pretty much the moment he has both Patience and Underdog, because 25 avoid against all stronger enemies means he's just not getting hit (and is hitting back).

Wyvern Rider and Thief? Lon'qu and Panne do. I guess you're asking for stacking Lucky Seven and Quick Burn? That's a really killer combination, by the way, and both of those two also have a third (or more) avoid skill to stack too.

Personally, I don't really see the merits of wasting my skill slots on avoid boosting skills. Sure, if you have enough, you can be untouchable, but giving up more skill slots than I'd like to just for that sounds like a waste imo. Especially Charm (I'll pass on a skill wit bad distribution and a miniscule effect postgame, and even ingame, I only see it worth it on Chrom), which, to put it bluntly, has all the makings of a low-class skill.

Back to the discussion, I'd have to agree on Locktouch, Movement +1, Despoil, Gamble, HP +5, Discipline, Patience, Solidarity and Demoiselle being worthwhile tier 1 skills.

[Tables]

Either way around, and they don't stack.

Personally, I don't really see the merits of wasting my skill slots on avoid boosting skills. Sure, if you have enough, you can be untouchable, but giving up more skill slots than I'd like to just for that sounds like a waste imo. Especially Charm (I'll pass on a skill wit bad distribution and a miniscule effect postgame, and even ingame, I only see it worth it on Chrom), which, to put it bluntly, has all the makings of a low-class skill.

Back to the discussion, I'd have to agree on Locktouch, Movement +1, Despoil, Gamble, HP +5, Discipline, Patience, Solidarity and Demoiselle being worthwhile tier 1 skills.

'Wasting'? You do know how high enemy hit rates aren't in this game, right, at least until late Lunatic? It only takes a few avoid boosting skills and you have a huge avoid boost, and the conditions for many of them are pretty lenient. Like, Patience, Avoid +10, Underdog, those ones are pretty much just automatic +10/+15 avoid in most conditions. 10 avoid is pretty significant thanks to True Hit as well. Going from enemies having 50% hit to 35% hit (which can be achieved with one skill easily) halves the chance you get hit. If enemy hit on you was already lower than that (and it often is), the difference is even larger. I don't know about you, but using one or two skills to more than double my survivability seems pretty worthwhile.

Charm is my bet for most underrated skill, because it's effects are subtle. Postgame, it's close to worthless, firstly because your units tend to be all over the place and not near to Chrom, and secondly because you never get hit. In game, I'd say a majority of chapters have you spend the majority of the time nearby to him, and a constant passive 5% avoid is nice. It's in no way gamebreaking, but considering it's around for the majority of the game as well, I'd say it's an above average skill.

Also, you say Charm is so bad, but then recommend Demoiselle? Care to explain that? Charm is at worst, a marginally worse version of Demoiselle since 10 crit evade can very occasionally be useful against killer weapons. But they're so similar - Demoiselle has twice the effect on half the units, and worse availability (Chrom gets to level 10 before anyone will get Demoiselle, usually). Demoiselle affects crit evade, Charm also affects hit, both are almost always worthless because you are usually perfect on both. But I'd give Charm the edge - support units often like a small hit rate bump, while the crit evade bonus is completely useless. I've actually seen other people say things like this, acting like Demoiselle is a good skill while Charm is terrible, despite them being in essence the same thing.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Tables

[Shadow Mir]

'Wasting'? You do know how high enemy hit rates aren't in this game, right, at least until late Lunatic? It only takes a few avoid boosting skills and you have a huge avoid boost, and the conditions for many of them are pretty lenient. Like, Patience, Avoid +10, Underdog, those ones are pretty much just automatic +10/+15 avoid in most conditions. 10 avoid is pretty significant thanks to True Hit as well. Going from enemies having 50% hit to 35% hit (which can be achieved with one skill easily) halves the chance you get hit. If enemy hit on you was already lower than that (and it often is), the difference is even larger. I don't know about you, but using one or two skills to more than double my survivability seems pretty worthwhile.

Charm is my bet for most underrated skill, because it's effects are subtle. Postgame, it's close to worthless, firstly because your units tend to be all over the place and not near to Chrom, and secondly because you never get hit. In game, I'd say a majority of chapters have you spend the majority of the time nearby to him, and a constant passive 5% avoid is nice. It's in no way gamebreaking, but considering it's around for the majority of the game as well, I'd say it's an above average skill.

Also, you say Charm is so bad, but then recommend Demoiselle? Care to explain that? Charm is at worst, a marginally worse version of Demoiselle since 10 crit evade can very occasionally be useful against killer weapons. But they're so similar - Demoiselle has twice the effect on half the units, and worse availability (Chrom gets to level 10 before anyone will get Demoiselle, usually). Demoiselle affects crit evade, Charm also affects hit, both are almost always worthless because you are usually perfect on both. But I'd give Charm the edge - support units often like a small hit rate bump, while the crit evade bonus is completely useless. I've actually seen other people say things like this, acting like Demoiselle is a good skill while Charm is terrible, despite them being in essence the same thing.

Forgive me for thinking that defense is more reliable in terms of preventing damage than praying to the random number god and hoping for the best. But I'll be honest, I seem to get hit by low percentage attacks more in this game than in other FEs, which really makes me question if this game even runs on the 2 RN system...

As to Charm, while I won't deny that Chrom will get it before any Troubadour gets to level 10, I think expecting everyone to be huddled up around Chrom is foolishness. And it doesn't help its case that some of the maps are more efficiently cleared by splitting up and having several groups tackle a section of the map.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Levant Fortner

[Tables]

Forgive me for thinking that defense is more reliable in terms of preventing damage than praying to the random number god and hoping for the best. But I'll be honest, I seem to get hit by low percentage attacks more in this game than in other FEs, which really makes me question if this game even runs on the 2 RN system...

Well, you can enjoy your getting 3HKO'd with 50% hit rates, I'll sit here getting 2HKO'd with 20% hit rates instead. Not like that's actually possible, since not many skills actually boost your defences by a significant enough amount. What else will you do for survivability? Sol, so you can have a 25% chance of healing? I'd rather just not get hit in the first place than rely on something so unlikely. And this game does run on 2 RNs, or at least some form of heavy weighting, and I can say that with a very high level of confidence.

As to Charm, while I won't deny that Chrom will get it before any Troubadour gets to level 10, I think expecting everyone to be huddled up around Chrom is foolishness. And it doesn't help its case that some of the maps are more efficiently cleared by splitting up and having several groups tackle a section of the map.

I never said it always happens. but it's pretty common. And no, it's not always going to happen. Just the majority of the time. You have a SEVEN space diameter diamond units can be sitting in to affect with Charm, and it's always going to boost Chrom's partner. Heck, if you have a wall of units, basically everyone is going to get that 5 avoid just from being in range. As for which chapters it's likely to be an asset in, well, I think it's easier to list ones it's unlikely to be. Chapter 8 is quite spread out, although you'll have it all at the start. Chapter 10 requires you to rush the thieves if you want the treasure, and you'll probably be spread out after that. Chapter 11 might have a significant number of units out of range as you spread out. Chapter 16 has three paths, so might well be out of range for a lot of it. Chapter 17, Chrom starts on his own little section, but quickly rejoins half the army. Chapter 23, he starts apart and the chapter will be largely clear when he can regroup. Every other chapter, I'd probably expect him to be in range of at least around half the army (usually more) for most of the chapter.

More importantly, how does this demonstrate ANY advantage for Demoiselle at all?

Edited January 16, 2014 by Tables

[Shadow Mir]

Well, you can enjoy your getting 3HKO'd with 50% hit rates, I'll sit here getting 2HKO'd with 20% hit rates instead. Not like that's actually possible, since not many skills actually boost your defences by a significant enough amount. What else will you do for survivability? Sol, so you can have a 25% chance of healing? I'd rather just not get hit in the first place than rely on something so unlikely. And this game does run on 2 RNs, or at least some form of heavy weighting, and I can say that with a very high level of confidence.

I never said it always happens. but it's pretty common. And no, it's not always going to happen. Just the majority of the time. You have a SEVEN space diameter diamond units can be sitting in to affect with Charm, and it's always going to boost Chrom's partner. Heck, if you have a wall of units, basically everyone is going to get that 5 avoid just from being in range. As for which chapters it's likely to be an asset in, well, I think it's easier to list ones it's unlikely to be. Chapter 8 is quite spread out, although you'll have it all at the start. Chapter 10 requires you to rush the thieves if you want the treasure, and you'll probably be spread out after that. Chapter 11 might have a significant number of units out of range as you spread out. Chapter 16 has three paths, so might well be out of range for a lot of it. Chapter 17, Chrom starts on his own little section, but quickly rejoins half the army. Chapter 23, he starts apart and the chapter will be largely clear when he can regroup. Every other chapter, I'd probably expect him to be in range of at least around half the army (usually more) for most of the chapter.

More importantly, how does this demonstrate ANY advantage for Demoiselle at all?

As I see it, by the time I'd have reclassed enough to get enough evade skills, I'd probably be strong enough that the grinding needed to get the evade skills broke the game, unless on Lunatic. And there's also the Second Seal problem to address, particularly early on.

As to the rest: About the only other chapters I see where Charm will actually have much of an effect are 12, 13, 20, and 21, and that's about it (and I think 20's a maybe). I generally found splitting up to be more advantageous, especially in chapters like 24 and 15, which are routs. IMO, the advantage Demoiselle has is that I'm NOT restricted to needing most of my army huddled around one unit to get any real benefit from it (ergo, distribution, and with it, tactical flexibility; even if Troubadour isn't exactly what most of the gals who have it as an option want to be reclassing to, it's still an option).

Edited January 17, 2014 by Levant Fortner

[Czar_Yoshi]

Time for me to weigh in.

First, Charm has a 3 tile radius, just like Demoiselle (unless both the wiki and the game are wrong).

Now, Avo is largely useless on Normal/Hard because everything tinks you or is so weak it's not worth dodging, so I'll be using Lunatic(+) for my context (while Hawkeye renders Avo useless, it's not on everybody and more Avo will still reduce your average EP damage). To put it simply, you have several (I think until Cht.9) chapters in Lunatic(+) before Hit+10 starts showing up, and up until then you have two guaranteed Second Seals, some opportunities to get more from Anna, and a natural Lord and Troubadour. More than half of these chapters also happen to be the hardest in the game and have crazy enemy weapon scaling (Silvers by Cht.8, iirc). However, the Lunatic boost to enemy Skl isn't much more than enough to offset the loss of hit caused by the stronger weapons, making dodging a much more reliable way of staying alive. See a Wyvern with 33 mt and 100 hit? Keep WTA up, and you're almost invincible. Between using WTA to get rid of enemy boosts (doesn't matter what rank you have), using C supports for +10 Avo, and decent Spd, dodging becomes a very viable way to tank the early chapters. Of course, concrete defenses are important too, but you need to be able to dodge too.

Now look at Charm, Demoiselle, and Patience: you have units that get two of them without Second Seals, and Mercenary is one of the strongest choices for your Avatar's first reclass. Combine the +25 Avo from all three of them, and you're looking good.

Additionally, on Lunatic(+), where the skills are likely to be most helpful, they're also going to have the fewest range issues due to your units having a tendency to hole up in corners for limited facings and more support boosts.

Does the +10 hit/avoid from patience and prescience really make a noticeable difference, though? Also, are there any characters that can be a wyvern rider as we'll as a thief? For deliverer, mov+1, and boots combination. As for locktouch, I have it on Vaike, Lon'qu, and Gaius, for IR farming.

Each and every spotpass/DLC character, who have the extra perk of being able to carry Boots over from another file. But you don't want Deliverer on your Rally/Staffbots, sticking supports on them will have a very marginal gain and will reduce the number of units you have left for combat/utility.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[Tables]

As to the rest: About the only other chapters I see where Charm will actually have much of an effect are 12, 13, 20, and 21, and that's about it (and I think 20's a maybe). I generally found splitting up to be more advantageous, especially in chapters like 24 and 15, which are routs. IMO, the advantage Demoiselle has is that I'm NOT restricted to needing most of my army huddled around one unit to get any real benefit from it (ergo, distribution, and with it, tactical flexibility; even if Troubadour isn't exactly what most of the gals who have it as an option want to be reclassing to, it's still an option).

This argument doesn't really make much sense to me. If you're saying two Demoiselles has twice the effect of one Charm because your army is split up, then, umm... what? Not to mention, Lucina has Charm as well. And you seem to be ignoring that fact that even after you split up, at least half your army can still be under the effect of Charm. It's not like it magically stops working because you're in two groups.

[Shadow Mir]

This argument doesn't really make much sense to me. If you're saying two Demoiselles has twice the effect of one Charm because your army is split up, then, umm... what? Not to mention, Lucina has Charm as well. And you seem to be ignoring that fact that even after you split up, at least half your army can still be under the effect of Charm. It's not like it magically stops working because you're in two groups.

That isn't what I'm saying. I know having two units with same skill doesn't make their effects stack. It's more to do with "I have more units with Demoiselle, and thus I can more easily incorporate it into a strategy than with Charm, which is limited to Chrom (and Lucina, as you stated, but since she doesn't come into play for half the game, as well as the fact that depending on what I do with her, she might not even get to keep it for very long, along with her not being a mandatory unit, I just left her out). But of course, that's just me.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Levant Fortner

[Tables]

I have more units with Demoiselle, and thus I can more easily incorporate it into a strategy than with Charm

...but since [Lucina] doesn't come into play for half the game ... I just left her out

Can you see the problem with this reasoning? How early do you think you're getting two Demoiselle users? Because let me tell you, unless you're willing to make big sacrifices with early SS uses, you aren't getting a second Demoiselle user until at least after Lucina joins. Look at the five possible Troubadours:

Maribelle might well get it. That's one.

Lissa you aren't going to use a Second Seal on to turn from a healer into another healer most of the time. She'd be much better off being promoted so she can build supports more easily/counterattack/not use a valuable early SS.

Miriel has a FAR better class choice you'd be sacrificing if you sent her to Troubadour.

Cherche joins two chapters before Lucina and has crap for magic. There's so many problems with this one it's just not worth mentioning.

Avatar has tons of better options, and might not even be female.

Beyond that, you have... the kids, who join after Lucina.

...As well as the fact that depending on what I do with [Lucina], she might not even get to keep it for very long, along with her not being a mandatory unit

This combined with the previous point you made is contradictory, or at least a circular argument. You seem to be arguing that you won't have two Charm users deployed, because Charm is a weak skill, because you can't take advantage of having Charm, because you won't have two Charm users deployed. On top of that, Lucina is one of the best child characters and generally a very good character. Using both Lucina and Chrom is FAR more likely than using two Demoiselle users, much less making them both Troubadours and reaching level 10. Lucina might (and in fact probably will) eventually get a better skill to replace it with, but then again so will most of your Demoiselle users, since both skills are fairly mediocre.

On top of that you don't even need to put any effort in. You just get the skill by default, and bam, two Charms on the field. They're just there, giving that easy passive +5 avoid bonus to most of your army most of the time.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Tables

[Shadow Mir]

Can you see the problem with this reasoning? How early do you think you're getting two Demoiselle users? Because let me tell you, unless you're willing to make big sacrifices with early SS uses, you aren't getting a second Demoiselle user until at least after Lucina joins. Look at the five possible Troubadours:

Maribelle might well get it. That's one.

Lissa you aren't going to use a Second Seal on to turn from a healer into another healer most of the time. She'd be much better off being promoted so she can build supports more easily/counterattack/not use a valuable early SS.

Miriel has a FAR better class choice you'd be sacrificing if you sent her to Troubadour.

Cherche joins two chapters before Lucina and has crap for magic. There's so many problems with this one it's just not worth mentioning.

Avatar has tons of better options, and might not even be female.

Beyond that, you have... the kids, who join after Lucina.

This combined with the previous point you made is contradictory, or at least a circular argument. You seem to be arguing that you won't have two Charm users deployed, because Charm is a weak skill, because you can't take advantage of having Charm, because you won't have two Charm users deployed. On top of that, Lucina is one of the best child characters and generally a very good character. Using both Lucina and Chrom is FAR more likely than using two Demoiselle users, much less making them both Troubadours and reaching level 10. Lucina might (and in fact probably will) eventually get a better skill to replace it with, but then again so will most of your Demoiselle users, since both skills are fairly mediocre.

On top of that you don't even need to put any effort in. You just get the skill by default, and bam, two Charms on the field. They're just there, giving that easy passive +5 avoid bonus to most of your army most of the time.

That first part is essentially covering something I admitted earlier:

Troubadour isn't exactly what most of the gals who have it as an option want to be reclassing to

Also, as for Miriel, I think it's pretty nice to have a Valkyrie who doesn't have to dig her way out of E tomes (which Lissa and Maribelle would have to put up with).

The second part is basically saying that I'm not treating Lucina as if she was a mandatory deployment unit, because she isn't. Sure, she might be good, but I'm not going to treat her as if she'll always be deployed because of that. And second, if I was using her, I'd likely consider reclassing because swordlock is not a good thing. Parallel Falchion's awesome, yes, but I'm not necessarily willing to leave her in a swordlocked class just for that.

At any rate, because I highly doubt either of us will yield, we might as well agree to disagree on this.

[Tables]

Yeah, I feel like I've said more or less everything there is to say, so I'll just answer one or two points in your last post and call it a day.

The second part is basically saying that I'm not treating Lucina as if she was a mandatory deployment unit, because she isn't. Sure, she might be good, but I'm not going to treat her as if she'll always be deployed because of that. And second, if I was using her, I'd likely consider reclassing because swordlock is not a good thing. Parallel Falchion's awesome, yes, but I'm not necessarily willing to leave her in a swordlocked class just for that.

That isn't what I'm taking issue with. The issue is treating having two Demoiselle users as something that can be utilised more easily than having two Charm users. I'm happy that Lucina might not be used (although I would expect she does get used by most players, most of the time). I'm less happy with the suggestion that having two Demoiselle users is a plus in it's favour, but it's not reasonable to consider the merits of having two Charm users.

Edit: Also, Lucina can use Falchion after reclassing, and has access to Cavalier automatically from Chrom. Having the option to reclass to a still sword using class who also has Lances, OR to (often) have the option of go Pegasus for Galeforce, is only a positive for Lucina. More good options = good. But that's pretty tangential to the point being argued.

Finally thanks for arguing in a civil manner. Normally I get bored of internet arguments after about two posts due to repeated backhand insults and flaming, which you (mostly) avoided doing.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Tables

[Vorena]

So on my post game team, I find that I mostly have the skills equipped from the 2nd-tier classes (a lot of Galeforce, the weapon breaker skills, Astra, Lethality, Pavise, Aegis, and the weapon expert skills, to name a few). Recently, though, I've seen people on the forums talking about the usefulness of the tier 1 skills. The only ones I ever use are Armsthrift, Vantage, Healtouch, and Miracle (Those last two are only on Sumia, though). My question is, are there any other 1st-tier skills worth using?

To be honest, it depends upon your goals. Limit Break is really only useful for outside of main storyline. While something like Veteran is helpful the whole time during the main game. Even armsthrift is sort of pointless unless you are using a weapon which you must not break like hard to get items. Otherwise, why use armsthrift on a silver sword when you will be only fighting with a unit like 5-6 times.

Plus, if you can get say 2 people with charm, solidarity, outdoor fighter, avoid + 10, patience. you have +50 avoid already. Throw in anathema as well and people have a hard time hitting your units on enemy phase. While on their own pretty bad, it stacks up pretty high.

[Czar_Yoshi]

If you know what you're doing, you can get LB fairly easily right after Cht.4, and on an Avatar solo run you're likely to cap quite a few stats without it. But, uh... Why did you bring it up? It's a DLC skill, not a tier 1 skill, and wasn't mentioned in the post you quoted...

Solidarity/Anathema don't reduce your chances of being hit, Solidarity boosts ally Crit/Dge and Anathema lowers enemy Dge/Avo. If you're focusing on skills that boost your own Avo, Lucky 7, Quick Burn, and Underdog are the best general purpose ones.

[Tribute]

If you know what you're doing, you can get LB fairly easily right after Cht.4, and on an Avatar solo run you're likely to cap quite a few stats without it. But, uh... Why did you bring it up? It's a DLC skill, not a tier 1 skill, and wasn't mentioned in the post you quoted...

Solidarity/Anathema don't reduce your chances of being hit, Solidarity boosts ally Crit/Dge and Anathema lowers enemy Dge/Avo. If you're focusing on skills that boost your own Avo, Lucky 7, Quick Burn, and Underdog are the best general purpose ones.

Tier 1 skill can be interpreted as any skill a Tier 1 has access to without promoting.

[Czar_Yoshi]

According to that definition, Aether and RK are Tier 1 skills because Lucina and her male siblings get them without promoting, and without Chrom needing to promote to pass them down.

I think the DLC skills (including Dread Fighter/Bride) should be counted differently than the promoted and base class skills. I consider Tier 1 to be skills learned by base classes.

[Tribute]

According to that definition, Aether and RK are Tier 1 skills because Lucina and her male siblings get them without promoting, and without Chrom needing to promote to pass them down.

I think the DLC skills (including Dread Fighter/Bride) should be counted differently than the promoted and base class skills. I consider Tier 1 to be skills learned by base classes.

Well, it depends how you define the level 30 classes. I see it as a base class with a special second seal. Essentially Tier 1B. Aether and RK are a loophole (and I consider them not) because, while Chroms kids automatically get them as lordbabies, it would normally require a t2 class.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Tribute

[Czar_Yoshi]

All promoted classes have an HP cap of 80 and a Lck cap of 45, and no caps below 30 (except in GK's case). All special classes except Villager have an HP cap of 80 and a Lck cap of 45, and no caps below 30 (except in Conqueror and Villager's case). All base classes have an HP cap of 60, a Lck cap of 30, and no caps above 30. Which of those groups do special classes sound more like?

But really, they're a whole different animal and shouldn't be lumped in with base or promoted classes.