Jump to content

Kirby's Return to Mafia Land - Game Over


Prims
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 986
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

How would I know I'm an uncultured American.

idc lets just try not to give maf the vig

Give SB the vig. Even if he's scum, he's just going to vig his scumbuddies anyways (and if he's SK, he'll accidentally vig mafia and get NK'd twice). Win/win.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

##Vote: SB

don't miss deadline!


Great, deadline is at 3 am for me. Definitely not missing that.
We'll have to more or less come with a decision at least 3 hours before that, because not only do I go to sleep way earlier, but I have my browser programmed so that it stops letting me access some websites (including SF) at some points, including 3 hours before deadline, so that I don't waste much time and I go to sleep early. I could technically remove that but what would be the point, if I set that kind of stuff and then removed it the first time it's slightly inconvenient for me.

Oh and I have an exam the 16th, I know that's pretty far away but I always hope I'm nightkilled early and it never happens. Just so that you know that I will be less active around 5 days before the exam.

I also have my browser set so that it prevents me from accessing SF at certain times during the day so I'll probably post walls. I know you all love walls.

Actual content:

Whoever gets the vig should be shooting in the next phase/relatively early (depending on the ratio of town/scum lynches we have) or be lynched. This is so that we make sure they're not scum saving the shot to make it easier to win lategame.

I mostly agree with Blitz with regards to roles to give, but I don't think bomb is that useful. I'd also prefer giving the towniest people roles that are scummy in nature, like ascetic/empowerer, just so that scum don't have them and they don't nightkill our good roles.

And finally, I'm self proclaiming myself as cleared because my PM is exactly the same as the sample PM in the OP. That is kind of a joke, but I thought it was worth mentioning. Unless we all are Kirby for some reason.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I confirm that we are all kirby for some reason and it's exactly the reason why he posted a sample of a role pm.

Good, Izhuark is also town, even if scum are definitely also Kirby. As scum I don't see him posting that, he'd be afraid of making some sort of mistake. His second post is also townie because the idea is townie and good. Again, as scum I don't see him posting like that.

I forgot to mention this, but I don't want you guys to argue against my townreads either unless they contradict your reads. You can ask me to explain them better, I know a lot of the time it's hard to understand why I think a certain thing is telling.

Man I want to case someone already.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All these "can't be roleblocked or redirected" look suspicious, because I see no roleblocking or redirecting roles anywhere. Must be the Mix roles. Anyway,

Archer - Scummy. Not being able to watch kills makes it less Townish than it usually is, and the Ninja effect makes it good for scum.

Beetle - Townish. Scum should mostly be lynched so Townies are more worried about being shot.

Echofinder - Townish. Aside from the one-shot JoaT network, only the Mafia really suffers from lack of OC. In fact, this should be the safest role to throw around because it can't be used against the Town if scum gets it.

Mayor - Kinda scummy? Not being able to change the placement of the extra vote during the day makes it harder for Townies to use it right. Scum could get pretty dangerous near endgame if they have this role.

Jack-of-all-Trades - Leaning towards Town. Comp Cop and Commute are pretty useless for scum, but great for Town. Safeguard seems more useful for scum in this setup, since there doesn't seem to be many roles that inflict negative effects here.

Insomniac - Townish. This is also something that the Mafia can't really exploit if they get it, because all they can do is talk more.

Vigilante - Either; leaning towards Scum. Both sides can make good use of this, but it's especially more dangerous in the hands of scum.

Ascetic - Scummy. Not many roles inflict negative effects, so this wouldn't help much for Town. Scum benefits from bypassing the Cop and Tracker though.

Bodyguard - Townish. Scum really can't benefit much from this because even if they protect a fellow scumbuddy from the Vig shot, they'll still lose one of their own.

Empowerer - Useless. No roleblocking or redirecting roles here.

Tracker - Townish. Information is good for Town since it can track killers, catch lies, etc. Scum wouldn't be able to utilize it quite as well, I think.

Mix - Unknown.

We should delay distributing the roles that are scum-oriented since Town wouldn't make much use of them. And we should be careful about allocating roles that would work well for either side, since we don't want scum to get them (especially the Vig). And yeah, we should give the Mix to Townish players since we don't want to risk letting the Mafia lying about their effects.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We can't "delay" distributing roles, we have to set all of them during twilight 1.

Speaking of which, we should all decide on who to give each role to beforehand, since we won't be able to talk about that during twilight.

I didn't pay attention to the fact that roles are assigned in the thread and not privately, but I still think we should follow what I said. I'd give Izhuark some role like tracker or watcher, and we can maybe decide on a pool of possible targets beforehand. Not sure if that would be counterproductive though.

Also, I'd give Blitz ascetic/empowerer because he's probably town and otherwise, or maybe regardless of that, he's DEFINITELY DYING SOON.

As much as it saddens me, the last person I'd give the mix roles to is Refa. Sorry dude, but I can't read you properly and if you're scum you're probably the person who would make the most out of those roles, given what Izhuark and Proto pointed out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

##Vote: Proto

for trying way too hard.

Unless echofinder counts as a kind of roleblocker then kek at the empowerer. I'm guessing mystery roles have something to do with it.

Do mafia win just on parity? I mean, if it's 2 v 1 going into the last night but we have a bomb who guesses correctly, do we win? If so we should save the bomb as a last resort. Early warning that there's no mylo/lylo announcements but who am I kidding we're still probably gonna fuck it up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah I agree that we should do a list of person we should assign the roles to before the deadline but i think we should wait a bit that everybody posted actual content before doing so.

Also i think what Rainbow meant by delaying was to distribute them last because it's more easy to decide who we are giving towns role to rather than scum rules.

What are you doing kirsche ? I really don't get your point. Are you doing that just to get us out of rvs ? Because this is a really bad way to do so. If we don't know how to assign role at the end of D1 the game will have much more chance to be scumsided. On the other hand if we assign role smartly we will have the upper hand for the whole game.

##Vote : Executive Kirsche

Seriously this kind of comportment is at least anti-town.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unless echofinder counts as a kind of roleblocker

It doesn't, but the Ascetic's immunity does.

Do mafia win just on parity?

Yes. Edited by Prims
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Proto's post really isn't that useful though. Saying "bodyguard is townish", "cop is townish" is fruitless, the end paragraph isn't saying anything of use. Also apparently I didn't read his opening line lol.

To put it in perspective, here are some better approaches:

I think the mix roles should also be given to town people because scum could lie about their effect.

well, we should at least give the Bomb, Beetle, Archer and Hammer to the towniest people, while giving Fire and Bell to the scummiest people and hold them accountable for not using their roles right, if they do not, that is.

These posts tell us what we *should* or *shouldn't* do. Proto's post goes "this role is good for town/scum" without commenting much either way. Notice how Blitz even went the extra mile and isolated the ones he thought were the most important for town while coming up with a method to catch scum. Proto told us a bunch of useless information but didn't come up with a good analysis. Half the stuff is just wishy washy anyway as he goes over the pros and cons of each for both sides.

But because Proto made a giant listpost people are more likely to go "oh man look at Proto he's putting in the effort A+ townie" when he's done basically nothing of use. Heck I'd argue that implying that we should save the JoaT until last is negative and strictly anti-town.

So tl;dr It all effectively boils down to "trying too hard".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think specifically assigning roles is a good idea because it removes accountability. Generally I think the strong town roles should probably go to less experienced players/obvious kill targets so we can trust their results but and force scum to make a trade off in keeping obvious townies alive if they want to kill off power roles.

Also don't make me Tracker again getting N1ed is no fun.

##Unvote
##Vote: Izhuark


I don't like the kirsche vote. We don't want to spend all day discussing role assignments because trying to get scum lynched is still more important. This vote just feels really easy to me and he's even kind of discrediting it from the start with "is this just to get us out of RVS" which makes me feel like he doesn't even believe in it.

kirsche is probably town and agree with his Proto read. I feel like what Mitsuki is doing is something she would do regardless of alignment but it feels like she's trying to look really productive when she hadn't done a lot yet (and yes I'm aware this earlygame but still).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kirsche, you make it sound like my post was an attempt to contribute in order to look Townish. I'm not. I was trying to analyze all the given roles and make suggestions for twilight phase, because I think role distribution is much more important to the game than Day 1 scumhunting (ftr I've always hated Day 1 scumhunting). I don't really care if you think I'm scummy for that, and no, I'm trying to pretend like my listpost is Townish so that people think I'm contributing. Go ahead and get me lynched if you want, but we should all still strive to optimize twilight phase and that's what I want to focus on.

Also, when the hell did I imply that JoaT should be saved for last? I said we should delay allocating scum-sided roles, and listed JoaT as leaning towards Town.

Anyway, I also think stuff like Echofinder and Bodyguard should be assigned to players that are hard to read, since even if they're scum, they can't hurt the Town much with those roles.

I think Mayor should go to the most Townish player, because imo it has the greatest risk in the hands of scum (we can lynch the Vig if they save their kill for a suspiciously long time). On that note, Prims, will the Mayor vote be revealed during the Day Phase votals? Or at least in the votals at the end of the Day Phase?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Spear is important for town, because why would scum want to bodyguard someone when they'd likely be one of the ones targeting someone else.

Bomb needs to go to a townish person or else it could be very easily misused. It would be almost catastrophic.

The other roles might be able to go either way idk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do think that trying to ascertain what roles go is important as there aren't a lot of leads on Day 1, but I don think it's important to not end up scrambling for a lynch near the deadline. It'll lead to wagoning and a likely mislynch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can we not talk about roles anymore unless it's relevant to your case on someone (or at least something that you personally are going to do)? I'm having a hard time getting any reads off of rolespec posts when they feel disconnected from the actual game.

@Mitsuki I'd probably give a townread who I'm confident can actually use their role properly the best role that's left. If such a person doesn't exist, then I'd give one of the chump roles to one of my scumreads.

@SB You should explain your Kirsche townread. I was going to sheep his case (until Proto's response anyways, don't think he'd defend himself like that as scum) because it was good but I didn't get any strong vibes off of the actual player.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I felt that the way kirsche expanded on his case after Izhuark's vote showed his thought process and it seemed reasonable and not like something scum would make up backtracking.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Votals in Vegatable Valley!

SB (2): Randa, Mitsuki

Izuhark (2): Refa, SB

Refa (1): Clarinets

Randa (1): Blitz

Proto (1): Kirsche

Elieson (1): Ms. Bunch

Ms. Bunch (1): Boron

Kirsche (1): Izuhark

Not voting: Cam, Michelaar, Elieson, Mancer, Proto

There are approximately 56 hours and 47 minutes until phase end.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, I just got home and am a little bit overwhelmed reading the thread so far up to now. I don't really have a lot of lasting reads on all of the players because of all the speculation on what to do with the roles and such.

On this note, I dislike this post by Blitz encouraging players to engage in rolespec. However, I can't say that I see the scum intent behind it because it does seem like an attempt to generate discussion. The later part of the quoted post where he mentions that someone else should start the discussion seems like an attempt to fly under the radar while other players lead the discussion on.

This post makes me feel rather confused about what he could be planning though. On one hand, he makes a logical point. On the other hand, the point that he makes seems like a pretty obvious one and can be easily made by anyone. I'd like to hear more about your intentions behind the role speculation and whether you have obtained anything of note from the role discussion so far.

Also, [url\http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=61695&p=4266676]This[/url] is a brilliant analysis of the roles that can be distributed.

Regarding the idea of deciding who to give what roles to: I don't think this is a good idea for a few reasons. Firstly, it wastes discussion time that can be spent scum hunting. Secondly, if scum is lynched, that scum can mess up the entire plan. Remember that the lynchee is the one that distributes the role during the twilight phase. Since we should be trying to lynch scum, it is highly probable that any plans we make will be messed up by the role assignment. I think that we should just let the lynchee decide (based on his own judgment) who to distribute the roles to and leave it as that.

##Vote: Izhuark

For one, I don't like his vote on Kirsche. It sounds rather... awkward and forced, in a way. I don't feel his conviction behind the vote as well, especially in the last line where he makes a mention that "[Kirsche's post/action] is at least anti-town".

What kind of anti-town do you mean? How do you see Kirsche's post/vote as anti-town? Do you find Kirsche scummy as opposed to just being anti-town? What about considering the fact that Kirsche might just be town with a different idea/outlook?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, I just got home and am a little bit overwhelmed reading the thread so far up to now. I don't really have a lot of lasting reads on all of the players because of all the speculation on what to do with the roles and such.

On this note, I dislike this post by Blitz encouraging players to engage in rolespec. However, I can't say that I see the scum intent behind it because it does seem like an attempt to generate discussion. The later part of the quoted post where he mentions that someone else should start the discussion seems like an attempt to fly under the radar while other players lead the discussion on.

This post makes me feel rather confused about what he could be planning though. On one hand, he makes a logical point. On the other hand, the point that he makes seems like a pretty obvious one and can be easily made by anyone. I'd like to hear more about your intentions behind the role speculation and whether you have obtained anything of note from the role discussion so far.

Also, this is a brilliant analysis of the roles that can be distributed.

Regarding the idea of deciding who to give what roles to: I don't think this is a good idea for a few reasons. Firstly, it wastes discussion time that can be spent scum hunting. Secondly, if scum is lynched, that scum can mess up the entire plan. Remember that the lynchee is the one that distributes the role during the twilight phase. Since we should be trying to lynch scum, it is highly probable that any plans we make will be messed up by the role assignment. I think that we should just let the lynchee decide (based on his own judgment) who to distribute the roles to and leave it as that.

##Vote: Izhuark

For one, I don't like his vote on Kirsche. It sounds rather... awkward and forced, in a way. I don't feel his conviction behind the vote as well, especially in the last line where he makes a mention that "[Kirsche's post/action] is at least anti-town".

What kind of anti-town do you mean? How do you see Kirsche's post/vote as anti-town? Do you find Kirsche scummy as opposed to just being anti-town? What about considering the fact that Kirsche might just be town with a different idea/outlook?

EBWOP to fix that awkward formatting error.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I confirm that we are all kirby for some reason and it's exactly the reason why he posted a sample of a role pm.

I don't see any way or reason Town could/would post this. Town isn't able to know Mafia is entirely Kirbys and wouldn't benefit in any way from saying they did.

I think the mix roles should also be given to town people because scum could lie about their effect.

Good point, I didn't think of that.

##Vote: Proto

for trying way too hard.

Unless echofinder counts as a kind of roleblocker then kek at the empowerer. I'm guessing mystery roles have something to do with it.

Do mafia win just on parity? I mean, if it's 2 v 1 going into the last night but we have a bomb who guesses correctly, do we win? If so we should save the bomb as a last resort. Early warning that there's no mylo/lylo announcements but who am I kidding we're still probably gonna fuck it up.

This post lacks the explanation it needs and just seems kind of awkward. Keeping the bomb as a last resort is a risky idea and I don't think we should do that.

Yeah I agree that we should do a list of person we should assign the roles to before the deadline but i think we should wait a bit that everybody posted actual content before doing so.

Also i think what Rainbow meant by delaying was to distribute them last because it's more easy to decide who we are giving towns role to rather than scum rules.

What are you doing kirsche ? I really don't get your point. Are you doing that just to get us out of rvs ? Because this is a really bad way to do so. If we don't know how to assign role at the end of D1 the game will have much more chance to be scumsided. On the other hand if we assign role smartly we will have the upper hand for the whole game.

##Vote : Executive Kirsche

Seriously this kind of comportment is at least anti-town.

His case against kirsche isn't even a case. This is a pretty bad post and feels forced.

Proto's post really isn't that useful though. Saying "bodyguard is townish", "cop is townish" is fruitless, the end paragraph isn't saying anything of use. Also apparently I didn't read his opening line lol.

To put it in perspective, here are some better approaches:

These posts tell us what we *should* or *shouldn't* do. Proto's post goes "this role is good for town/scum" without commenting much either way. Notice how Blitz even went the extra mile and isolated the ones he thought were the most important for town while coming up with a method to catch scum. Proto told us a bunch of useless information but didn't come up with a good analysis. Half the stuff is just wishy washy anyway as he goes over the pros and cons of each for both sides.

But because Proto made a giant listpost people are more likely to go "oh man look at Proto he's putting in the effort A+ townie" when he's done basically nothing of use. Heck I'd argue that implying that we should save the JoaT until last is negative and strictly anti-town.

So tl;dr It all effectively boils down to "trying too hard".

As SB said, this explanation feels genuine and Town-like.

I don't think specifically assigning roles is a good idea because it removes accountability. Generally I think the strong town roles should probably go to less experienced players/obvious kill targets so we can trust their results but and force scum to make a trade off in keeping obvious townies alive if they want to kill off power roles.

Also don't make me Tracker again getting N1ed is no fun.

##Unvote

##Vote: Izhuark

I don't like the kirsche vote. We don't want to spend all day discussing role assignments because trying to get scum lynched is still more important. This vote just feels really easy to me and he's even kind of discrediting it from the start with "is this just to get us out of RVS" which makes me feel like he doesn't even believe in it.

kirsche is probably town and agree with his Proto read. I feel like what Mitsuki is doing is something she would do regardless of alignment but it feels like she's trying to look really productive when she hadn't done a lot yet (and yes I'm aware this earlygame but still).

I don't think this post is particularly telling of either alignment, but I agree with his point on Mitsuki.

Can we not talk about roles anymore unless it's relevant to your case on someone (or at least something that you personally are going to do)? I'm having a hard time getting any reads off of rolespec posts when they feel disconnected from the actual game.

@Mitsuki I'd probably give a townread who I'm confident can actually use their role properly the best role that's left. If such a person doesn't exist, then I'd give one of the chump roles to one of my scumreads.

@SB You should explain your Kirsche townread. I was going to sheep his case (until Proto's response anyways, don't think he'd defend himself like that as scum) because it was good but I didn't get any strong vibes off of the actual player.

I second that, you can't really get any good reads out of rolespec.

Okay, I just got home and am a little bit overwhelmed reading the thread so far up to now. I don't really have a lot of lasting reads on all of the players because of all the speculation on what to do with the roles and such.

On this note, I dislike this post by Blitz encouraging players to engage in rolespec. However, I can't say that I see the scum intent behind it because it does seem like an attempt to generate discussion. The later part of the quoted post where he mentions that someone else should start the discussion seems like an attempt to fly under the radar while other players lead the discussion on.

This post makes me feel rather confused about what he could be planning though. On one hand, he makes a logical point. On the other hand, the point that he makes seems like a pretty obvious one and can be easily made by anyone. I'd like to hear more about your intentions behind the role speculation and whether you have obtained anything of note from the role discussion so far.

Also, [url\http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=61695&p=4266676]This[/url] is a brilliant analysis of the roles that can be distributed.

Regarding the idea of deciding who to give what roles to: I don't think this is a good idea for a few reasons. Firstly, it wastes discussion time that can be spent scum hunting. Secondly, if scum is lynched, that scum can mess up the entire plan. Remember that the lynchee is the one that distributes the role during the twilight phase. Since we should be trying to lynch scum, it is highly probable that any plans we make will be messed up by the role assignment. I think that we should just let the lynchee decide (based on his own judgment) who to distribute the roles to and leave it as that.

##Vote: Izhuark

For one, I don't like his vote on Kirsche. It sounds rather... awkward and forced, in a way. I don't feel his conviction behind the vote as well, especially in the last line where he makes a mention that "[Kirsche's post/action] is at least anti-town".

What kind of anti-town do you mean? How do you see Kirsche's post/vote as anti-town? Do you find Kirsche scummy as opposed to just being anti-town? What about considering the fact that Kirsche might just be town with a different idea/outlook?

This post feels Towny and genuine, and is very productive for generating discussion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...